DOT and StVZO "Legal" Lights for eBikes

Alan B said:
Cost is a problem. The better lights get pricey quick. I like the Hella HIDs but $500 each, and that's before enclosing and powering them! But I suspect if you flash them with HID High Beams they'll at least consider turning their beams down, if that's the issue, but if they're running illegal lights then that won't help.
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I've already tried simply flashing my own high beam at them, but in recent months I've only had a couple people respond to it at all--one of them an "offroad" SUV with lights over the cab, which they then turned on, along with spots above their side mirrors. :roll: The car behind me screeched to a stop becuase THEY couldn't see either, after that. The other person actually did cut their high beams.

I have been planning on looking into pull-it-yourself scrapyards, and trying to find some HID systems I could pull from those--at least osme of the yards charge by the pound so it'd be fairly cheap to get, if I could find one intact. That's how I got hte motors for my first friction drive on DayGlo Avenger, and how I got hte brakelight bar prsently on CB2.

There's also quite a few junker totalled cars in people's driveways or on streets along my path to/from work, including a recent one right near my house, so if I can pass by when someone's home to ask, I might be able to purchase the parts off that, if that's what they have and they're willing to part it out.


The ohter issue is that from what I have heard in a couple local discussions about HIDs is tha tthey are quite power hungry, vs halogens. I can deal with that, but would like to go with the most power efficient I can manage to find...however I will take what I can get hwen it comes down to it, cuz if it' ain't bright enough, it doesn't matter. :)


Some other things might help like antireflective coating on the eyeglasses,
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That might do some good, but I'm not sure--if I had mirrored but not tinted coating I could put over my helmet visor, I could try that, but all the mirroring I've found when I've looked also significantly cuts down the light, too, meaning what I do get from the surroundings from my own headlight would be reduced so much I couldn't see much, if any, better. :(

If the AR reduced *glare* from the other lights, maybe it would be a significant improvement--but I used to have AR on my old glasses, and it didnt' make any difference except for light from behind me no longer being reflected of the inside of the lenses, and inside my helmet that's not an issue anyway. :) If ther'es another kind of AR you mean, I could look into that, though.



or finding a route less travelled. :)
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There isn't one--at least, not one that would let me ride home without many dozens of--possibly well over a hundred--complete stops and starts, because of all the stop signs and whatnot on the side streets. 31st Ave from Peoria to Thomas (and vice-versa) already has about a couple of dozen of those, at least every half mile or so from Thomas to Northern for I guess about 18-20 or so, and there's another dozen or so between there and work at Peoria.

It's pretty similar if I take 23rd Ave instead, which is the other close "half-mile" less-travelled street that goes almost all the way thru, but that road has worse road conditions and more stupid poeple on it (pedestrians and cars), and an extra detour just south of Indian School Rd where 23rd has to go around an apartment complex and canal--there's no traffic light at the IS intersection of the side street I have to use to go around, either, so that can mean up to several minutes of waiting to cross IS to continue. :(

One issue with routes possible is that I-17 (black canyon freeway) runs right up the middle of the area I must travel, parallel to boht of the primary routes I can use, and because of that it greatly reduces the possibilities of where I might travel. Theoretically I could ride the "frontage road" on the east side going to work, and the west side going home, and not have any oncoming headlights in my face at all, but then i have all the poeple coming up behind me at nearly freeway speeds even far between the exits and entrances, cuz people use that road as if it was just another freeway lane, often enough. :( it's also usually only one lane wide except up to the entrance, and past hte exit, to any particular "mile street" main road that crosses it. Typically has no paved shoulder, and mostly no sidewalks, so like Dogman did I could end up running across pedestrians wandering it in the dark--it's also poorly lit since mcuh of the freeway is walled off for sound containment and the lighting doesnt' spill over that much, not that close to the walls. Phoenix tends to turn off a lot of the streetlights to save power, and the ones that they leave on don't often get replaced when they burn out or begin to be intermittent.

And even if I took the side streets for all of the route possible, I'd still have to go back to either a main "mile street" or "half mile street", in order to cross the other "mile streets", becuase without a traffic light to stop cross traffic on those, it's often not possible to cross them at all--at least, not safely, without waiting there for 5-10 minutes or more at each one (meaning, every mile of the 10 miles one-way I'd be sitting waiting to cross for up to anywhere from 50-100 minutes, total, if I had to wait at each one). It's bad enough at some of them even with a traffic light, as it may take 2-3 minutes for a light to change during certain times of day, and/or cross traffic may ignore the light and continue to fill the intersection even though it's red for them, preventing any of us going the other way from getting into the intersection and across even when it's green for us--we can sit half across the crosswalk waiting to go for more than one or two cycles of the light before a gap opens up! That's usually only in the morning or evening, at worst rushhour times, and I'm not normally on the road then, but my work schedule does sometimes require me to be. :(

So I'd still be facing oncoming traffic, potentially, for those sections of the road. It's slightly better lit because it's close to the intersection, and thus easier for me to see since all of the light isn't coming from just their headlights, but it's still not quite enough in some areas.

Then there is the road conditions--most side streets arent' maintained very well, so they're full of cracks, potholes, uneven (rippled) surfaces, etc. Not all of them, of course, but quite a lot of them are, especially in certain areas I ride thru--the half-mile streets can be bad enough, as it is. I could probably find a twisty-turny route that would take me thru only (or mostly) good road areas, but i expect it would be significantly longer.


Then there's the idiots just wandering around in the streets, adults that should know better, standing there talking or texting on the phone, or whatever. That doesnt' include the kids that play in the street, or the dogs people let run around freely. Nor does it include all the car doors left wide open, or the cars parked far askew of parallel, etc.

Basically I'd be riding about 5-10MPH for so much of the ride because of haivng to watch for things like that, plus all the stops and starts, that it would take me at least two hours to go the 10 miles one-way to/from work, and it might take longer. (plus the bike barely really balances below about 8-9MPH or so, and only really balances well above 12-15; a side effect of it's length and steering angle/caster, I guess, as well as it's low height and seating design).

So, it's not practical to go a different route--really it's either 23rd Ave (backup) or 31st Ave (primary).
 
The Hella Bi-Halogen projector lights are another possibility (mentioned above). At $125 the cost is not cheap but still less than a lot of high end bicycle lights:

http://www.amazon.com/HELLA-008193027-Series-Halogen-Headlamp/dp/B00062ZYNK/ref=pd_sim_sbs_auto_1

You still need the $23 high/low beam shutter solenoid and an H9 bulb, but this one light would do a better job than most factory motorcycle lights. UPDATE: the shutter solenoid is built in. You will need bulb, connector, mounting, and perhaps a cover to make it look better. The light assembly is already waterproof.

I think I would still add a bicycle LED headlight for those occasions where you don't need a lot of light due to street lighting, you want to conserve power, and for daylight flashing. These halogens take 65 watts.
 
Hella also has 60mm Halogen projector DOT compliant lights, separate units for low and high beam. The low beam is $40 at Amazon, the High beam is harder to find.

The 90mm all in one bi-Halogen seems like the best so far in the DOT group, though a standard housing and seal beam would be the lowest cost of that group.
 
Alan B said:
The HIDs need a solenoid actuated shutter for high/low beam, so they are a bit more complex.
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Could you retrofit an LED into a fixture with the shutter?
 
You could. But the reflector is designed for a filament source, the LED would not emit light in the same way. The beam pattern would probably be terrible. They make an LED version which costs $1000. If it were easy to fit the LEDs they would have done it, and it would not be so expensive. LEDs are more difficult to get the proper pattern from, and provide the cooling they need, and the temperature compensation they need to keep the light output within the proper range.

I should add that it is possible to do what you are suggesting, but it would take a bunch of hacking, not just sticking an LED bulb into the assembly. I wonder if replacing the reflector with a DISC of LEDs might work, and low beam could turn off half the disc, dispensing with the shutter. Perhaps there is no shutter in their LED light and they have done it that way. It would take some research and understanding of how the projection system works, and designing a new LED source to replace the halogen bulb and reflector. Definitely an interesting idea.
 
Hi,

Why not two LED fixtures, one with a permanent shutter for highbeam, and one without the shutter for the low beam?
 
The shutter is used to block part of the beam to make low beam on projector dual beam type lights. If separate fixtures are used, and if the light source can be quickly turned on and off (LED and Filament can, but HID is too slow), there is no need for shutters.

Shutters are used on the Bi-Xenon and Bi-Halogen since only one bulb produces high and low beams, and the projector projects the shutter onto the beam pattern and cleanly blocks the beam during lowbeam.
 
Alan B said:
The HIDs need a solenoid actuated shutter for high/low beam, so they are a bit more complex.
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If you're using it on a bike (or trike) then you could just use an old friction shifter and cable to operate it, to simplify stuff. ;)
 
I don't understand why the OP and others interested just don't buy the Philips Saferide in the Pedelec version. It's about 80 lux, has a fully compliant beam and is incredibly bright. Not retro looking but very compact and tough and voltage supply is very flexible. I have used the 60 lux dynamo version for a couple of years and it's very satisfactory at normal cycling speeds. The 80lux version should be better! Reliably available from Bike24.
See: http://www.bike24.com/p240914.html

Savvas.
 
Thanks for the suggestion, and welcome to ES.

I have a number of bicycle lights and they don't meet my needs. While the Philips may have a better pattern than some, it doesn't compare to an SAE/DOT car/motorcycle light as I understand it.

I'm looking for lighting at least as good as a motorcycle's. I've had too many near misses with deer, raccoons, branches, debris and potholes. This is on a bicycle lane along a highway, and on a twisty road through the hills, both of which are without street lighting. This is not your average commute route, and I have to deal with a lot of oncoming vehicles and their lights.

From what I've read about this Philips SafeRide, it is a good light, listing for over $200 but available for around $100. It has nimh batteries and runs for 8 hours in eco mode and 2 hours in bright mode.

http://www.amazon.com/Philips-BF48L20BBLX1-SafeRide-Battery-BikeLight/dp/B00620Z8M2
 
A few years ago I bought some add on hid lights for the motorhome, sylvania, remote controlled only, in there own fixture, and to be mounted no higher than 16". They work nice. I don't remember price .
 
Hi Alan,

Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds to me like you could (using separate LED lamps for high and low beam):
1. Shine a DOT approved light at a wall on low beam.
2. Shine a bright LED approved light at the wall.
3. Use scissors or tin snips, some aluminum flashing and duct tape to make the beams match.

If necessary you could repeat the steps above (if necessary - probably not) with the high beam. When it's functionally good you could replicate the results with more elegant materials.

You could probably get it set up so for high beam you leave both lights on and when you want low beam turn off the high beam.
 
Hi Mitch.

Meeting SAE/DOT requirements generally takes a combination of reflector, lens and other features to meet the various requirements for pattern, intensity, beam cutoff, etc. It is not as easy as putting a mask in front of the light source. Beam pattern and intensity are tricky to get right, and there are other requirements as well.

You can make some progress by hacks in front of the light, but it won't solve all the issues.


Another approach is to buy a SAE/DOT reflector/bulb combo intended for upgrading a sealed beam light, and then finding a bike type housing that fits. Hella has some of these upgrade reflectors down to a little under six inches. Years ago I put one of these on a motorcycle to upgrade a sealed beam, and it was a lot better than the original. These upgrade reflectors and lenses may be high quality (if you get a good brand), and they shape the beam from the replaceable halogen bulb. The bulbs are generally dual filament hi/lo beam setups, but they undoubtedly have separate type upgrades as well.

ps - I'm not partial to Hella, that's just the catalog I've been reviewing. I think their stuff is decent quality.
 
I just found this thread and interestingly I have just purchased a set of main beam projectors and a set of dipped beam porjectors both road legal, from the same company..
The lights are identical in every way, identical lenses, identical bulbs, on opening up the lights the only difference that I have been able to see is that the dipped beam have a cut off plate across the top half of the bowl preventing the light from travelling upwards.

Looking at this I am struggling to see how simply masking the top of the lens inside with a reflective aluminium tape wouldnt have exactly the same effect??
 
PITCHDARK said:
I just found this thread and interestingly I have just purchased a set of main beam projectors and a set of dipped beam porjectors both road legal, from the same company..
The lights are identical in every way, identical lenses, identical bulbs, on opening up the lights the only difference that I have been able to see is that the dipped beam have a cut off plate across the top half of the bowl preventing the light from travelling upwards.

Looking at this I am struggling to see how simply masking the top of the lens inside with a reflective aluminium tape wouldnt have exactly the same effect??
Click to expand...

You're struggling because it would have the same effect
 
PITCHDARK said:
I just found this thread and interestingly I have just purchased a set of main beam projectors and a set of dipped beam porjectors both road legal, from the same company..
The lights are identical in every way, identical lenses, identical bulbs, on opening up the lights the only difference that I have been able to see is that the dipped beam have a cut off plate across the top half of the bowl preventing the light from travelling upwards.

Looking at this I am struggling to see how simply masking the top of the lens inside with a reflective aluminium tape wouldnt have exactly the same effect??
Click to expand...

You're struggling because it would have the same effect :wink:
 
In order for the shutter to have the desired effect the optics have to be designed properly, to project the blockage out onto the beam at a distance. The shutter needs to be in the proper focal plane for it to have the desired sharp edges. Placing the blockage somewhere else will make it out of focus in the distant beam.
 
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