D's RC Drive Kona DC1
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
AussieJester
1 TW
deecanio said:hey guys
twin 3220's on a mongoose anyone?
D
Pft...Twin 3220 is sooo 3 months ago Deec...
Seriously though sounds like a better plan then you can get a frame
more suited to what you wish too do...TBH i still dont get why you didnt
set the stinky up with totally separate manual and electric
setups :-S
KiM
hahahaha yes i never did bother keeping up with fashion Kim, twin 3220's? so last season darling
i didn't bother trying to do a two in one setup on the stinker as its just too impractical, even if you could get a system whereby it was all contained within a box you would then have to make that box quick release from the frame, you also then have the whole arseache of the db,cables etc which i guess could stay but woul need tying up etc, certainly there is no qr system that converts from electric to normal that i'm aware of, closest is probably Miles Moulton with back pack but still you have to lug the motor around if your not using power.
i think i'm off on a tangent as im frustrated that it seems so complicated to get to where we want to be with things ATM
keeping in line with the motor discussion, you guys are saying that if i changed out to a 3220 for direct drive i would need to amend the motor pulley to deal with the extra torque and increase the size of of the drive pulley to the extron?
even if we do the math and figure that out (vey grateful for the help by the way) i still have the probs with front gearing needing a deraileur which will obscure chain line and also the chain growth issue.
In all honesty, would you guys say i would be better off persevering with the kona as my base or converting back and starting afresh?
Love
D
i didn't bother trying to do a two in one setup on the stinker as its just too impractical, even if you could get a system whereby it was all contained within a box you would then have to make that box quick release from the frame, you also then have the whole arseache of the db,cables etc which i guess could stay but woul need tying up etc, certainly there is no qr system that converts from electric to normal that i'm aware of, closest is probably Miles Moulton with back pack but still you have to lug the motor around if your not using power.
i think i'm off on a tangent as im frustrated that it seems so complicated to get to where we want to be with things ATM
keeping in line with the motor discussion, you guys are saying that if i changed out to a 3220 for direct drive i would need to amend the motor pulley to deal with the extra torque and increase the size of of the drive pulley to the extron?
even if we do the math and figure that out (vey grateful for the help by the way) i still have the probs with front gearing needing a deraileur which will obscure chain line and also the chain growth issue.
In all honesty, would you guys say i would be better off persevering with the kona as my base or converting back and starting afresh?
Love
D
Your existing motor pulley is only just adequate for the 3210 - if you fit a 3220 you're doubling the torque at the motor shaft..........
I would keep the Kona as it is (otherwise all that effort on the battery box is wasted...) and start completely from scratch for the next build.
I would keep the Kona as it is (otherwise all that effort on the battery box is wasted...) and start completely from scratch for the next build.
mmmm, true, but given all the drive/gearing/mounting issues it faces a new battery box for a new bike isn't that bad as long as the new one resolves all those issues, also remembering the kona will still be a fine pedal bike.
i wish i'd never got involved
D
i wish i'd never got involved
D
AussieJester
1 TW
No No..I didnt mean a system that could be taken off and be a 'normal' bike again, i mean a manual pedal setup that was isolated from the motor...basically what your doing now, you could of done it in the first place i dont get why you didnt is what i was getting at Deec...anywayz...
You simply HAVE to go with 3 motors Deec its the new fashion mate ;-P
KiM
You simply HAVE to go with 3 motors Deec its the new fashion mate ;-P
KiM
oh yes sorry i misunderstood mate 
i did have exactly that Kim, with three chainrings upfront and my puma hub, it rode oh so easy, three manual gears spaced out at 16/23/27 mph ish and had the beautiful synergy possibilities im now trying to regain, however i only had one ride on it this way before i let bob abuse it and the puma gears got mangled LOL - hubs do not work offroad, period.neither do internally geared bicycle hubs for that matter imo.
so i know what i want but to get it using the rc kit is proving very, very difficult.
i will follow what Miles/Gary/Matt are saying closely with gearing and see what i can do with that although there are issues even still with mounting to get a good chain line for direct drive.
It may turn out that i need to try the bimoto crank after all, but i'll have to look at every possible option before i buy - again this still leaves me with a desire for a pedal only bike which puts me back in the loop of thought of a new scratch build and de-electrifying the stinker my head hurts, damn you, small brain.
i'll go with 3 when i get 1 to work how i want
D
i did have exactly that Kim, with three chainrings upfront and my puma hub, it rode oh so easy, three manual gears spaced out at 16/23/27 mph ish and had the beautiful synergy possibilities im now trying to regain, however i only had one ride on it this way before i let bob abuse it and the puma gears got mangled LOL - hubs do not work offroad, period.neither do internally geared bicycle hubs for that matter imo.
so i know what i want but to get it using the rc kit is proving very, very difficult.
i will follow what Miles/Gary/Matt are saying closely with gearing and see what i can do with that although there are issues even still with mounting to get a good chain line for direct drive.
It may turn out that i need to try the bimoto crank after all, but i'll have to look at every possible option before i buy - again this still leaves me with a desire for a pedal only bike which puts me back in the loop of thought of a new scratch build and de-electrifying the stinker
my head hurts, damn you, small brain.i'll go with 3 when i get 1 to work how i want
D
sell? the stinker? but i can't
it's mine and i love it.although? any takers? LOL
then i'd have to start all over again and still i need to buy a pedal bike.
i'll see if the stinker can be made to do what i want, if not i revert to pedal only and start anew.
D
light years LOL - each gear is only very briefly assisted before the motor makes any input redundant, tbh i neve bother trying except first gear, but thats a draw back of running through the gears.
But remember true matching cadence isnt my goal, as we discussed a while back if both drive systems are independant cadence can be matched for true synergy through throttle control, however doing this with my current setup induces heat as the motor is barely turning, also i have to run this way because i cannot pedal alone, even on flat
i really think reverting the stinky is my best bet at the mo.
btw do you want to sell that modded eno ;p ?????
D
But remember true matching cadence isnt my goal, as we discussed a while back if both drive systems are independant cadence can be matched for true synergy through throttle control, however doing this with my current setup induces heat as the motor is barely turning, also i have to run this way because i cannot pedal alone, even on flat
i really think reverting the stinky is my best bet at the mo.
btw do you want to sell that modded eno ;p ?????
D
etard
100 kW
Great discussion going on here, I think alot of us are coming across the same obstacles. I just have one suggestion for you D, and then I will continue to watch from the sidelines while the veterans hash this out. I was just thinking that since you want to get stronger and better skilled, maybe the whole gear changing is getting in the way of you truly becoming a better rider. I have been doing this lately, as my bike is severely out of tune. 
I put it in a gear that I can do most everything and leave it. This has made my pedal stroke smoother at higher cadence and my burst speed better when the gearing might be a little low for a hill etc... Have you tried a single speed? Some of the guys riding these can keep up with other riders because they can concentrate on other things like breathing, terrain, and proper form. I rode one once that had no brakes, and it was fixed with no freewheel, the only way to stop was pushing against the chain (scary to say the least). Also, it seems with all your power, your pedalling would only be effective for 5-15 mph, so what if you went with just the two stacked freewheels on a normal freewheel hub and two pedal sprockets up front? Anything over 20 mph seems scary fast on the trails I ride so why worry about pedalling above this speed? Just my two cents, I love your bike and how you seek perfection, carry on...
I put it in a gear that I can do most everything and leave it. This has made my pedal stroke smoother at higher cadence and my burst speed better when the gearing might be a little low for a hill etc... Have you tried a single speed? Some of the guys riding these can keep up with other riders because they can concentrate on other things like breathing, terrain, and proper form. I rode one once that had no brakes, and it was fixed with no freewheel, the only way to stop was pushing against the chain (scary to say the least). Also, it seems with all your power, your pedalling would only be effective for 5-15 mph, so what if you went with just the two stacked freewheels on a normal freewheel hub and two pedal sprockets up front? Anything over 20 mph seems scary fast on the trails I ride so why worry about pedalling above this speed? Just my two cents, I love your bike and how you seek perfection, carry on...This has been an epic thread!
I just burned through the full 40 pages, as your goal for this project is very much the idea I've had in mind for a year or more... bravo on a great build, even if it only serves as the seeds to sew for your next!
Hurry and perfect your Free-Ride-RC-tech-nol-o-geee..... so you can pass-it-on-to-meee!!!!
I just burned through the full 40 pages, as your goal for this project is very much the idea I've had in mind for a year or more... bravo on a great build, even if it only serves as the seeds to sew for your next!
Hurry and perfect your Free-Ride-RC-tech-nol-o-geee..... so you can pass-it-on-to-meee!!!!
blitzwagen
100 mW
Hi D,
I've been following your progress with great interest and I've ordered an Astro 3210 based on your success. Is it true that you are not getting to peak efficiency simply because your rpm is too low for your typical speed? I want to build a offroad ripper with my 3210 6t and I'd like to figure out what to do differently.
Cheers
I've been following your progress with great interest and I've ordered an Astro 3210 based on your success. Is it true that you are not getting to peak efficiency simply because your rpm is too low for your typical speed? I want to build a offroad ripper with my 3210 6t and I'd like to figure out what to do differently.
Cheers
AussieJester
1 TW
blitzwagen said:
buy an Astro 3220 maybe LoL...
KiM
Hi all,
etard,
i'm not sure if your talking about the pedal bike or the ebike in relation to single speed but, for the kona, i need more options, i tried single speed and although it will work ok, you have to give up any assist at >15mph at best so from there your using full power from your packs/motor unessesarily, a big problem i have at the moment.
It may be that my gearing wasnt the best at the time,15 rear to 32 or 42 upront and maybe the top speed could have been better but that was the gearing that i felt comfortable with in that i could pedal home any terrain with a dead bike.
changing the gearing to 15 r 32/42/52 with a triple up front imroved things so much that i'll be going that way again now, the ability to contribute to 30mph on the pedals is my god, well that and independant drive, oh and machined enos, oh and delta/wye boards :lol:
Thinayr,
thank you, Free-Ride-RC-tech-nol-o-geee is very, very, near, we still need some custom parts like the modded enos and such but we're very close now to some seriously capable off roaders.
Bliitzwagen,
the 3210 is a great motor, you would need to tell us much more on how you plan to use it (powering crank/wheel? type of bike/ full suss/hardtail? ) in order for us to help you avoid mistakes we've made somewhere previously.
as far as my efficiency goes that sort of explains it, but its a bit more complex than that,because of the way i have setup i have to use the motor all the time and run flat far far quicker than i should be, this is basically down to not having the two sytems seperate, which leads us on to where to going with the modded enos etc so that we can seperate them and regain the beauty of determining both input percentages at will.
Of course we will need a delta wye board from somwhere magical but ya never know who's making what at the moment :wink:
cheers,
D
etard,
i'm not sure if your talking about the pedal bike or the ebike in relation to single speed but, for the kona, i need more options, i tried single speed and although it will work ok, you have to give up any assist at >15mph at best so from there your using full power from your packs/motor unessesarily, a big problem i have at the moment.
It may be that my gearing wasnt the best at the time,15 rear to 32 or 42 upront and maybe the top speed could have been better but that was the gearing that i felt comfortable with in that i could pedal home any terrain with a dead bike.
changing the gearing to 15 r 32/42/52 with a triple up front imroved things so much that i'll be going that way again now, the ability to contribute to 30mph on the pedals is my god, well that and independant drive, oh and machined enos, oh and delta/wye boards :lol:
Thinayr,
thank you, Free-Ride-RC-tech-nol-o-geee is very, very, near, we still need some custom parts like the modded enos and such but we're very close now to some seriously capable off roaders.
Bliitzwagen,
the 3210 is a great motor, you would need to tell us much more on how you plan to use it (powering crank/wheel? type of bike/ full suss/hardtail? ) in order for us to help you avoid mistakes we've made somewhere previously.
as far as my efficiency goes that sort of explains it, but its a bit more complex than that,because of the way i have setup i have to use the motor all the time and run flat far far quicker than i should be, this is basically down to not having the two sytems seperate, which leads us on to where to going with the modded enos etc so that we can seperate them and regain the beauty of determining both input percentages at will.
Of course we will need a delta wye board from somwhere magical but ya never know who's making what at the moment :wink:
cheers,
D
blitzwagen
100 mW
This is what I'm working towards on a Giant DH team downhill bike.
2- stage reduction from 3210 6t giving 12:1 reduction
freewheel to crank reduction - 44:16 giving 2.75:1
so motor to crank will finally be a 33:1 allowing a pedal cadence of 150rpm at half speed after which the motor
will do all of the work.
I then plan to run a 30 tooth chainwheel to a 16 tooth rear cog which then makes the final ratio around 16:1.
I also thought that a nexus 3 spd hub may be necessary to tackle the one or two hills on my ride. I've already purchased 12s 12ah
Hyperion lipos to power this effort.
What do you think?
2- stage reduction from 3210 6t giving 12:1 reduction
freewheel to crank reduction - 44:16 giving 2.75:1
so motor to crank will finally be a 33:1 allowing a pedal cadence of 150rpm at half speed after which the motor
will do all of the work.
I then plan to run a 30 tooth chainwheel to a 16 tooth rear cog which then makes the final ratio around 16:1.
I also thought that a nexus 3 spd hub may be necessary to tackle the one or two hills on my ride. I've already purchased 12s 12ah
Hyperion lipos to power this effort.
What do you think?
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
If its not too late to make a change I think for an extra $100 compared to the 3210 the Astro 8150 is a no brainer:
http://www.astroflight.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=197
blitzwagen said:
If its not too late to make a change I think for an extra $100 compared to the 3210 the Astro 8150 is a no brainer:
http://www.astroflight.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=197
Hi Blitzwagen,
i would have to ask some of the wiser heads here if your gearing is correct as i need a LOT of help in that department myself tbh, the dh team seems like a good platform to me, i think voicecoils has the same bike.
you should have a lot less drag than i suffered with my setup as your using a freewheel to drive the crank which will help and if your gearing is correct you should be able to assist a lot more than i was able to which is also good.
if your planning on riding quite rough the nexus may break on you, may be fine also but it is not recommended for any geared hub to be used on dh'ers as far as i have read.
a pedal cadence of 150 seems like an awful lot to me? you may find that if you open up the throttle you wont be able to assist at all as the motor may do like mine does and accelerate so damn quickly that you wont keep up!!!
im not sure about the guys recomending stronger motors either, there is a finite amount of power than you can put through a bicycle chain and imo the 3210 is as good as any other motor if running through a bicycle chain for final drive.
i'll probably end up going to a 8150 or 3220 myself as im going to direct drive to the rear wheel this winter and will need the extra grunt i imagine.
running through the cranks will give you ease of setup but make sure you get your ratios correct and know what you want for a top speed etc, ask more questions generally so that everyone can help you out in deciding how to go, better to delay a little than rebuild, trust me!!
D
i would have to ask some of the wiser heads here if your gearing is correct as i need a LOT of help in that department myself tbh, the dh team seems like a good platform to me, i think voicecoils has the same bike.
you should have a lot less drag than i suffered with my setup as your using a freewheel to drive the crank which will help and if your gearing is correct you should be able to assist a lot more than i was able to which is also good.
if your planning on riding quite rough the nexus may break on you, may be fine also but it is not recommended for any geared hub to be used on dh'ers as far as i have read.
a pedal cadence of 150 seems like an awful lot to me? you may find that if you open up the throttle you wont be able to assist at all as the motor may do like mine does and accelerate so damn quickly that you wont keep up!!!
im not sure about the guys recomending stronger motors either, there is a finite amount of power than you can put through a bicycle chain and imo the 3210 is as good as any other motor if running through a bicycle chain for final drive.
i'll probably end up going to a 8150 or 3220 myself as im going to direct drive to the rear wheel this winter and will need the extra grunt i imagine.
running through the cranks will give you ease of setup but make sure you get your ratios correct and know what you want for a top speed etc, ask more questions generally so that everyone can help you out in deciding how to go, better to delay a little than rebuild, trust me!!
D
actually i have a few questions myself for my own build.
the current belt reduction that im running - can i extend the length of the belt itself?
My latest plan is again a revisted thought - i want to split Matts drive and locate the driveshaft to the back of the seatpost.
before anyone starts shouting at me that there isn't enough room there damn well is!!!
there is space between the crank and swing arm to run the belt unhindered, the pulley is out far enough not to hit the crank AND let the wheel come past it during compression if it needs to.
My only concern is will a seatpost mounting (initially im back to thinking of stubby stems again to clamp the post and the driveshaft) be strong enough to hold the tension on the belt and avoid skipping? i had thought that i may insert a solid ally bar down the seatube to the bb so when i do the bracket up reall tight the post cannot be crushed.
im hoping so as this could really work for me, i'll still have to find a way to tension the 219 chain but i think with the skills we have that its no prob to fab a tensioner with 219 sprocket/s?
heres what i mean....... any thoughts?????
D
the current belt reduction that im running - can i extend the length of the belt itself?
My latest plan is again a revisted thought - i want to split Matts drive and locate the driveshaft to the back of the seatpost.
before anyone starts shouting at me that there isn't enough room there damn well is!!!
there is space between the crank and swing arm to run the belt unhindered, the pulley is out far enough not to hit the crank AND let the wheel come past it during compression if it needs to.
My only concern is will a seatpost mounting (initially im back to thinking of stubby stems again to clamp the post and the driveshaft) be strong enough to hold the tension on the belt and avoid skipping? i had thought that i may insert a solid ally bar down the seatube to the bb so when i do the bracket up reall tight the post cannot be crushed.
im hoping so as this could really work for me, i'll still have to find a way to tension the 219 chain but i think with the skills we have that its no prob to fab a tensioner with 219 sprocket/s?
heres what i mean....... any thoughts?????
D
Attachments
Sorry Miles, yes that's the plan.
two enos courtesy of grandpa Thud and parallel drive to the rear.
16t eno to 32/42/52 roadcrank as before, i just need some input on splitting the drive, i'll take some pics of what i plan when i get chance but basically as is in the pic, i'll use a stubby stem to clamp to the seatpost and to hold the drive shaft then 219 straight to the extron, tensioning to be resolved but if i get to that stage most of the problems are overcome
D
two enos courtesy of grandpa Thud
and parallel drive to the rear.16t eno to 32/42/52 roadcrank as before, i just need some input on splitting the drive, i'll take some pics of what i plan when i get chance but basically as is in the pic, i'll use a stubby stem to clamp to the seatpost and to hold the drive shaft then 219 straight to the extron, tensioning to be resolved but if i get to that stage most of the problems are overcome
D
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