E-S Phasor Electric Bike Owners

[Rodney64]

Chris the pack looks amazing, ill pick the pack up tomorrow after our audit.


Today my son Ryan and I fitted the 3580 to his Phasor in preparation for the new battery.

It's looking good.

Phasor owners a couple of things to remember is to pack out the gap and don't try to put the frame in otherwise it'll damage the frame. This only applies to frames that are preordered greater than the standard 135mm. I ordered a frame at 160mm for the Cromotor.

I've had this swing arm set for 160mm for the Cromotor so have needed to pack it with washers to prevent damage to the swing arm. note this is not recommend by Phasor.

With my first build I had a lot of different info from bike shops here in Perth regarding brakes but even though I bought a set of Shimano brakes they were not prepared to make the modifications as they weren't an engineer.

I understand all this as I'm involved at work on a daily basis.

But they could have advised me of the correct adapter. Maybe they didn't know or care.

 

[pendragon8000]

I've been thinking about this hs35xx in a wide drop out. Got enough bolt in the adaptors with the washers? And 2washer width off centre isn't much but does it bother you?
edit
Its 1 washer off centre hey?... who cares right.

 

[korpin]

Chris the pack looks amazing, ill pick the pack up tomorrow after our audit.


Today my son Ryan and I fitted the 3580 to his Phasor in perpetration for the new battery.

It's looking good.

SO 90 VOLTS ON THE NEW PACK HOW MANY AMPS or whats the total wattage you plan on pumping thru the 3580?

damm your son is lucky...wish my dad built me an electric bicycle when i was a kid!....sure would have improved our relationship think its a great thing you are doing in addition to all the exercise he will have something to think about with all the eletronics

 

[korpin]

With all the time you waited and the $ invested in your ride, I am surprised at your latest post. I can tell you what components you would need on that to make your Phasor more robust. The forks are fine, a Coil over shock wouldn't hurt, the big mods would be heavier duty rear wheel/tire combo and cranks. Everything else you got on your Phasor is sano enough for everything shy of riding the Shore in BC. Go with larger rotors and keep your calipers, I would suggest a 17 or 19 inch offroad motorcycle front wheel rim/tire combo on your Phasor rear with a Cromotor. I have researched tires for both sizes that would definately work on Phasors and Bombers alike. But, I want to give you some food for thought based on your past posts. Weight has always appeared to be a big concern in your prior posts. To build a heavier, stronger, more robust bike, you will gain weight. Doesn't matter if its a Bomber or Phasor. The Bomber weighs close to 120 pounds. If I ran 26" MTB tires on my bomber with lighter rims, went to a 4065 or 4080, and went with a 20s 10AH Lipo battery, I would shave and easy 20-25 pounds off of the Bomber. But the bike wouldn't be nearly as tough as it is now, wouldn't have the range, and even vented, I would probably over heat a 4080 or 4065 at my weight if I didn't ride with some mechanicle sympathy. I wouldn't be able to keep the rear tire from flatting every 5 minutes on the crap I ride. Korpin, point I am trying to make is if you like your Phasor, I can tell you what you need to make it much more robust and how to make it work for you. The Bomber is a super machine that is turn key ready to go. Would I recommend the Bomber, hell yes. Its clearly the best production electric bike made, especially for the money. But the Phasor gives you the freedom to build whatever you want out of it though. And since you already got it going, making it work for you wouldn't be that difficult. My suggestion is do some soul searching, if you sell it and dont take a beating, thats fine, get yourself a Bomber, you wont be disappointed. But if you have to take it in the ass to sell it and not get atleast 75% of your money out of it, I say keep it and I will put togehter a list of components that will make your bike kick ass and stop on dime. The phasor frame is definately strong enough, David has a video posted of the Phasor launching off of a 7 foot drop and handeling the landing with ease. Complemented with the correct components, the Phasor can be a super sweet ride and more than tough enough for offroading. BTW, it sure is a pretty bike in white.

Rick

well the schlumph made a HUGE difference shortened up chain a bunch!....probably you are right thinking shinko 244 or 241 tires not sure what rims and eventually a cro motor IF I can do all this and keep it 100 pounds or less will do tires/wheels are next though

the new cromotor with heat sensor looks awesome method still selling the super duper controller?

 

[korpin]

Rod, here is some tire info and my latest wheel build information. So I got my 17x1.4 prowheel rim laced up and trued to the 5404. I used the homey the clown ghetto chump method for truing my latest rim. Tires, I have photographed 4 tires together for size reference in pic 1. From left to right: Bridgestone M23 2.5x19 24.7"), Duro Razorback 24x3.00 (25.6), Michelin Gazzette M62 3x17 (23.3", and the Shinko SR241 3x17 (23.9"). Parenthesis is outer diameter in inches. Next pic is a top view of the tires. As you can see, I trued the rim on my swing arm using to pens. This was the easiest rim I ever trued and it trued up quick. Then the final pic is of my bike back together with the 24x3 Duro on the front and the M62 Gazzette on the rear. Probably going to switch to the SR241. I cant get the Gazzette to inflate evenly up on the bead. Speeds over 38MPH and it feels like I am on a washboard road. Running the rear @ 20PSI helps though. I like the 17" rim better than the 19. I like them both better than the stock 24MTB setup. Much tougher and not much heavier. With the smaller rim and tire, the bomber handles much better. I don't know what the head angle with the smaller rear wheel set up, but I like it. Also, the increased thrust torque because of the increased mechanical advantage makes it easier to wheelie. I can feel the difference in acceleration from dead stop. I am experimenting with some very conservative venting. With the peak watts im running 5.6KW, the motor does get hot but not to bad. What concerned me the most was after I finished a ride, heat quench would get the hub extremally warm. With the venting, the heat can escape and the hub doesn't get nearly as warm. Anyway, I think you will really like the 17 on the rear of your phasor.

Rick

thanks for all the great tire/wheel info you have posted on this board!.... questions:

1)you still like the 17" better than the 19"?

2)are these tires being run with tubes?

3)i like the Shinko 241 is that for 17" or 19" ?

 

[korpin]

posted these a while back...they covert 90-100 volts dc down to 12 dc for things like gps,lights,cell phone charger,etc about one inch square come in other voltages too by Winston electronics china...was wondering do any of the controllers you guys are using come with a 12 volt port already?

 

[Rix]

1)you still like the 17" better than the 19"?
2)are these tires being run with tubes?
3)i like the Shinko 241 is that for 17" or 19" ?

Korpin, yes, I like the 17 running the SR241 better than anything else I have ran to date, and by more than just a small margin. The Shinko SR241 3.00-17 is one awesome tire. Tons of traction, low rolling resistance, under 7#. I am running every thing with tubes. I also have a Shinko SR241 2.75-17 which weighs about a pound (.4kg) less than the 3.00-17. Its also about 1/2 inch smaller in diameter. I will try that tire next, but only when this one wears out which is proving to be something that will not happen any time soon. I bet I get 2000 miles easy out this tire. FYI I got about 350 miles out of the Duro Razorbacks on the rear and about 650-700 with 19x1.4 running 70x100-19/2.5x19 hard terrain motocross knobbies. The duro on the front is a different story, I am at 1000 miles with the current Duro Razorback and I have 30-40% tread remaining.

Hey Rod, how do you like the 17 on the rear over the 26"MTB counterpart?

Rick

 

[korpin]

Korpin, yes, I like the 17 running the SR241 better than anything else I have ran to date, and by more than just a small margin. The Shinko SR241 3.00-17 is one awesome tire. Tons of traction, low rolling resistance, under 7#. I am running every thing with tubes. I also have a Shinko SR241 2.75-17 which weighs about a pound (.4kg) less than the 3.00-17. Its also about 1/2 inch smaller in diameter. I will try that tire next, but only when this one wears out which is proving to be something that will not happen any time soon. I bet I get 2000 miles easy out this tire. FYI I got about 350 miles out of the Duro Razorbacks on the rear and about 650-700 with 19x1.4 running 70x100-19/2.5x19 hard terrain motocross knobbies. The duro on the front is a different story, I am at 1000 miles with the current Duro Razorback and I have 30-40% tread remaining.

Hey Rod, how do you like the 17 on the rear over the 26"MTB counterpart?

Rick

I agree 2.75 is wide enough...any idea on weight of SR244 2.5 X 17 compared to SR241 2.75 or 2.5 X 17?....right now I have 26 x 2.35 crazy bobs...2.5 to 2.75 would be about right

also,if I go with 17 wheels with SR241 or SR244 what would my total wheel size be?..remember you said something earlier about motocycle tires being sized a little different from bicycle tires

I was wondering how does a 25 bicycle rim compute to motorcycle tire and can you combine the two?....would be quicker/easier/cheaper way to test these tires my rim says" ETRTO 559 X 25" must confess have no idea what that means

contacting Shinko to get weight chart on these

 

[Rodney64]

Rick the 4080 is running much cooler with the 17 without any loss of speed but a lot more torque.

 

[Rodney64]

I've been thinking about this hs35xx in a wide drop out. Got enough bolt in the adaptors with the washers? And 2washer width off centre isn't much but does it bother you?
edit
Its 1 washer off centre hey?... who cares right.

Its only until the cromotor arrives. but one good thing is that the 135mm wheels will still fit the larger dropout.

Chris the pack looks amazing, ill pick the pack up tomorrow after our audit.

SO 90 VOLTS ON THE NEW PACK HOW MANY AMPS or whats the total wattage you plan on pumping thru the 3580?

damm your son is lucky...wish my dad built me an electric bicycle when i was a kid!....sure would have improved our relationship think its a great thing you are doing in addition to all the exercise he will have something to think about with all the eletronics

This pack will have approximatley 1300 usable watts hours. Im getting this out of my current phasor pack. Will be running the 3850 at 4500 watts. the controller a 45 amp 18 fet crystalyte controller.

Methods hasnt any controllers left, i purchased a 36 fet off Zombies and the cromotors a methods one with the heat sensor.

 

[Rodney64]

This is the adaptor mount that I purchased for the rear 203mm disc brake.

What confused me on my first build was incorrect info from a bike shop here in Perth telling me that the Phasor mount didn't apply to international standards.

This incorrect information then lead me done the track of modifying an adaptor mount

And on another subject we had our lean manufacturing audit today. 101.5 up from 85

 

[pendragon8000]

Note:bike shop guys don't know everything!
I have had simalar issues they don't know about 7speed freewheels with smallest gear 11t. Didn't know about schlumpf, didn't know about vee rubber tyres, there's so much info out on the net and the poor ol' bike shop staff are probly too worried about what they are having for dinner or trying to hide there stonedness from the boss.

 

[Rix]

Pendragon, this is true, bike shops don't know everything about the industries' components. I have been fixing and assembling bikes for over 30 years, I don't have it figured out.

Rick

 

[Rix]

I went down the oil path with my Bafang powered Fighter. What a nightmare. Tried to seal it the best I could but couldn't stop the oil leaks. What a mess. Worst part was oil getting on the brakes. Waisted weeks trying to get it to work. Ended up giving up and going back to grease filled.

I read through that thread, and it was in the back of my head while I was kicking myself thinking I should have heeded your warnings. But I had to learn the hard way for myself. I still think if the oil can be contained, then a finned case can have a significant impact on heat dissipation, but further development is necessary. The cooling fins would not be very effective without it, unless you enhanced the convection heat transfer on the inside as well, IE; add some sort of fins on the inside of the hub. My vent hole (was, before I plugged it) on the freewheel side, so the oil has not touched my brakes, ( kept my chain lubed though ) but spraying on the rim / tire is no good, and opening / closing / sealing the motor is an ordeal with the oil.

I see no reason that it could not be contained with the right axle seals, and no ventilation hole. For the oil to effectively transfer heat from the case to the windings, I think this rules out a vent hole and necessitates tighter seals because the oil level has to be full enough to be in contact with the case and the the whole of windings under full load, steady state (spinning) conditions. With only say 1/3 full, spinning at speed will turn the oil into a layer on the outside of the inside of the hub, maybe contacting only a fraction of the windings, so I would think it needs more like 1/2 full - 2/3 full. Maybe I will dip one of my toasted stators in water to see how much volume it displaces, then a desired oil level can easily be calculated from the volume of the case minus the displacement of the internals, assuming the oil forms an annulus shape at speed as shown below: A picture is worth a thousand words, that I don't want to type.

Ideally you would want your thermistor immersed in that oil layer as well.

I also came across this image of my simulation of the heat transfer before adding cooling fins, which indicates a good location for them. Again this is assuming convective heat transfer dissipating from the outside of the case, and conductive heat transfer from the windings to the oil to the case. If there were no oil, this would look quite different, with the hottest spots near the axle where the dominant conductive heat transfer would be happening. In fact I think that is what the first image I posted above represents.

di

mpirate, those wheels are awesome! Even more so that you will have some power to put them to use! Can't wait to see it come together.

David, any updates on the oil cooling with your hub? How is it handleing the higher wattage? Smoked any stators yet?

Dimpirate, whats going on with your build?

Rick

 

[Rix]

Korpin, yes, I like the 17 running the SR241 better than anything else I have ran to date, and by more than just a small margin. The Shinko SR241 3.00-17 is one awesome tire. Tons of traction, low rolling resistance, under 7#. I am running every thing with tubes. I also have a Shinko SR241 2.75-17 which weighs about a pound (.4kg) less than the 3.00-17. Its also about 1/2 inch smaller in diameter. I will try that tire next, but only when this one wears out which is proving to be something that will not happen any time soon. I bet I get 2000 miles easy out this tire. FYI I got about 350 miles out of the Duro Razorbacks on the rear and about 650-700 with 19x1.4 running 70x100-19/2.5x19 hard terrain motocross knobbies. The duro on the front is a different story, I am at 1000 miles with the current Duro Razorback and I have 30-40% tread remaining.
Hey Rod, how do you like the 17 on the rear over the 26"MTB counterpart?
Rick

I was wondering how does a 25 bicycle rim compute to motorcycle tire and can you combine the two?....would be quicker/easier/cheaper way to test these tires my rim says" ETRTO 559 X 25" must confess have no idea what that means
contacting Shinko to get weight chart on these [/b]

Korpin, cut and pasted this from another response a while back. "When I say that a 19x1.4 motorcycle rim with tire is the same diameter as a 24"MTB Tire, lots of people ask me how this could be. Motorcycle industry measures their tires sizes by the rims outer diameter, minus rim bead height. The bicycle industry measures bicycle tires sizes based on overall diameter of a tire that is 1.75" tall mounted to a rim and inflated. What does this mean? This means that a 24" mountain bike wheel actually has a rim that is 20.5 inch diamter rim, and 26"MTB has a 22.5" diameter rim. A 20"BMX wheel actually has a 16.5" rim. But with the motorcycle industry, the rim is used for the diameter measurement. So a 19"motorcycle rim is only 1.5" smaller in diameter than a 24"MTB Rim. When you factor in the motorcycle tires slightly higher tire profile, the OD ends up being close to the same?.

 

[Tinto]

Given the hotspot on the hub in the image quoted by Rix above, would something like automotive heat sink help?
http://www.visionr.com.au/component/visionr/?p=detail&cid=304

You'd need to trim it down width wise, but that would probably mean you'd get around the whole hub...

 

[Rodney64]

Picked up my battery today from Chris and it fits well. Now I need to make a tuff clad brace for the Perspex box to sit against. A job for the weekend.

 

[pendragon8000]

Rod, the battery looks good in there. just wondering about mass and WH capacity? that should be a beast by the looks.

 

[jonescg]

Looks like a good fit 8) Are you going to be supporting the lower pack with another 'bookend' type of thing? You should also strap them down with some velcro or something to stop them from shuffling upwards.

Should be 1300 Wh of useful juice, with the battery weighing just under 8.5 kg or so.

 

[Rodney64]

Yes I'll be supporting it with tough clad. Shitloads of if from work which I purchased

 

[Rix]

Given the hotspot on the hub in the image quoted by Rix above, would something like automotive heat sink help?
http://www.visionr.com.au/component/visionr/?p=detail&cid=304
You'd need to trim it down width wise, but that would probably mean you'd get around the whole hub...

Tinto, thats a great question. I think it would help. But would need to actually try it to know for sure. Dpearce is experimenting with something similiar to the heatsink fins on his purple Phasor. The infared/thermo imaging photo was originally posted by him a while back. I hope he posts his findings. Between Oil Cooling and the fins, I am wondering if the BMC V4C can handle 2.5KW continues with 3KW bursts for extended periods with out smoking stators?

Rod, I really like that battery pack! Fits the Phasor like a glove. JonesCG does great work. Whats "tough clad"?

Rick

 

[Rodney64]

Rick we use it on conveyor systems in chutes from One conveyor to a other and it lines the structure and is replaceable. It's easy to work with and doesn't crack and is strong.

 

[korpin]

links for tire sizes dimensions of 241/244 serires:

231: http://shinkotire.co.kr/02product/sub01_detail.asp?pcode=AA00070060

244: http://shinkotire.co.kr/02product/sub01_detail.asp?pcode=AA00050045

 

[Rodney64]

Just finished making the wiring harness and ready to fit to battery to the bike.

 

[Rodney64]

Been working on Ryan s Phasor all day and its 4 now and it's now running on 100 volt. Tomorrow were planning on goi g bush.

It's currently running the 3580 with the crystalyte controller and jonescgs 100 volt battery.

When I get back my cromotor ill then fit the Zombies controller.

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