E-Trike Project

[Ben]

I've gotta say: wow, it's come a long way.

I've also gotta say, and this has been bugging me for a while, how much you look like Steve the pirate:

I hope you don't mind.

 

[AussieJester]

BWAHAHAH...

I usually get i look like Michael Douglas-->

But more attractive, suave, humorous and sexy....Guess a shave helps...

I have a new top speed tooo... flipped the chain into second gear and went for a
spin...managed 72km/hr ... or...( 44.7mph...) the road
wasn't 'entirely' flat i must admit...trike felt beauuuutiful, very stable...

Me

 

[Ben]

72 kays in second. You're a madman.

And now that you mention it, I can see the resemblance to Michael Douglas.

 

[AussieJester]

haha yeah i have similar eyes also have a dimple chin (cant see it in above pics due to not being clean shaven)
Wish it was someone semi attractive i was getting likened to... LoL.. 80km/hr will be
the new 'goal' when i getz the gears working, long as i get faster than safe' i'll be happy and i have the advantage of BIG mofo hills , i tellz ya though..the motor & the batteries didnt like climbing the hills in second, she got VERY hot...when i hall in first then use gears accordingly the motor doesn't even get warm...

Hopefully local bike shop wil;l have new cable in a day or two...in meantime i have a few lil things to
address on the frame/motor mount re-enforcing...

More soon folks

Kim

 

[safe]

the new 'goal' when i getz the gears working, long as i get faster than safe' i'll be happy and i have the advantage of BIG mofo hills , i tellz ya though..the motor & the batteries didnt like climbing the hills in second, she got VERY hot...when i hall in first then use gears accordingly the motor doesn't even get warm...

Advice on Gearing Selection

Hey AussieJester I've got some advice (somewhat obvious) about how to lower your motor temperature. There is a tendency to "short shift" these electric motors because the low end torque *gives a feeling like it's best power is down low. In reality it's NOT and the peak horsepower is actually up nearer to the top rpm of the motor, but since the acceleration decreases as the rpm rises you get tricked. It took me a long time before I really understood it. :?

The secret to both more power and less heat is to ALWAYS scream the motor up to the no load speed before you upshift. (with a standard controller there's no way to know where the true power peak is by feel)

Avoid "short shifting".

ACL - Armature Current Limiting
BCL - Battery Current Limiting (standard controller)

Either you need to change your gear choices or do what I'm doing and develop an "Armature Current Limiting" circuit that filters out the low end torque so that you have no choice but use the correct gear.

The non-geared bikes are screwed because they have to use the low end torque just to get around, but we can choose to downshift and build the revs whenever we want.

You seem to have already gotten the idea, but I'm just pointing out that refining your shift points is harder than you might initially think. (squeezing the last bit of power out of these motors takes some practice)

 

[AussieJester]

Uhm...i guess you missed the line where i said i need a new cable so i can change gears...hence why
i only used 2nd gear...When i am able to change gears and use first for the hills the motor stays
cold doesnt even get warm.

 

[safe]

Uhm...i guess you missed the line where i said i need a new cable so i can change gears.

Oops.

 

[AussieJester]

LoL... no biggy matey, you need to see the hills we have here to appreciate the steepness too
I would be pretty confident a hub motor wouldnt get up alot of them, the video i saw of Doc bass
climbing a "hill" at 45km/hr
for example, if only we had "hills" that steep here i would be in heaven, our flat roads up here are steeper than that LoL..
The hills were the main reason for going with the non-hub motor, all well and good if you can throw 100plus volts at a X5 i guess
but the weight!#@!# My trike already comes in at ~350lb with me on it...yes..... i desperately need my first gear, interestingly
in second it hits same speed up the hills but damn does it chew the power doing it...I have called
local bike shop and the longest they have is a 2100mm cable soon as i can organize
a lift up there ill pick it up, it shoooould just be long enough...(bike shop is out of range of current SLAs im afraid...
well..if it was all flat it wouldnt be fact is its ~6km of up hill to Kalamunda LoL...)

 

[safe]

i desperately need my first gear, interestingly
in second it hits same speed up the hills but damn does it chew the power doing it.

That's pretty much the point I was trying to make. Due to the weird "upside down" powerband that electric motors have you can either produce power in a low heat way (high rpms) or a high heat way (low rpms) and the result is the same.

It's very tempting to "short shift" on these mutiple speed electric bikes because your desire is to go faster (at least that's always what I'm after) and you get the same acceleration in either gear.

Anyway... you seem to have it all coming together well. I know that it takes time to sort out all the little details and sometimes you will realize with wear and tear that some parts need to be redone later on. Once the bike/trike is rideable it's tempting to just want to ride around all the time and stop developing it though... I've had to force myself to stop riding just so that I would spend the time needed to make new parts.

 

[AussieJester]

I picked up a "new" (secondhand) Shimano Deore XT Rear Derailleur RD-M750 on ebay today, shall win these in ~9 days time, a set of Shimano LX 9 Spd Rapid Fire Shifter to go with my "new" derailleur, they are local too so delivery will be next day..Still to purchase a new cable, will organize this during the week. Hopefully this will take care of my gear shifting duties while adding a lil more cycling parts 'bling' LoL... Anyone have these items? if so how do they go?

Back laterz chaps...

Kim

 

[safe]

I don't have those exact parts, but I do have a derailler on my first bike. At first (the first hundred miles or so) I blew up a cheap rear freewheel cluster. The little freewheel clicker things inside just blew up. However I had thrown a chain earlier that got stuck between the frame and the wheel so that was likely the cause.

After some 5,600 miles I've had no additional problems.

Those look to be of high quality, you should be fine.

 

[AussieJester]

My mate that was up actually has the previous model to the one i have safe and the quickfire shifters
he says they work very well, Hopefully ill have the derailleur this week anywayz tiz paid for, i just
need the shifters now new they are a couple of hundred dollars so need to get them from ebay hopefully
cheaper, i will however call the bike shop when they are open today amd see if the can be bought singularly and the price, if its possible
and the price is reasonable ill grab one new...

Update

Had a good mate help me out today, I wanted to test the trikes abilities out on a very steep hill
we have here in Lesmurdie, the road is called Basildon Rd and it's just around the corner from my
house, we thought if the trike could get up this hill it could get up any of the others in the area, it
will also give the members here a lil bit of an idea the "terrain" i am dealing with ...in case my new
"build" didn't make it, my mate followed me in his car as i left the wheelchair back in the garage
(obviously when I have constructed the tow hitch for the chair this will all have to be re-done...aaanyhoot...)
as usual though the video doesnt do justice to the true incline we were confronted with loL...

...Those that own hub motors look away now...LoL

[youtube]s30yZGXXqf0[/youtube]

My brother tackled this same hill several weeks ago on his 48cc powered Bicycle, he managed to make it
only half way up Basildon before jumping off and pushing the rest of the way LoL... We fitted a jackshaft
to his bicycle so it now utilizes the gears but as yet he hasn't been up to tackle the hillz, i doubt it will
make it still TBH shall have to wait and see ... I know i'll blow him away both on acceleration and top end
he maxes out at 43km/hr (i have hit 70ks on the trike) though so hopefully get the hat-rick The trike
will actually spin the rear wheel on take off if i lean forward and left slightly, its acceleration is very impressive
We shall be marking out a 100m 'run' to time the acceleration when i have the gears hooked (still stuck in first)
I would guess 7-8seconds will be highly doable.

All in all was pleased with the trikes performance and have little doubt i will still get over the hills towing
the chair, dropping 12kilos of weight when i lose the SLAs and the additional power of the Lifepo4s
will also be a bonus

My mate will be bring his video camera next trip up and we plan to have him following my in his car again filming me riding

Back soon folks


Kim

 

[AussieJester]

AJ,

That's alright... It looks like you're able to maintain your speed pretty well up the majority of the hill...

Dropped to ~19km at the top of the hill which i thought was still pretty impressive considering the steepness of the hill If i had ooperational gears i would of used second gear tto get lil better run at the hill, the section before it is slightly downhill before it rises, it maxed out first gear, i hit the bottom at ~40km/hr... Hopefully when mate shoots the ride next time, from his car, it will show up the incline a lil better...

So you're still with the MY1020 1000W motor??? No Mods, cooling, re-winds or brush-plate upgrades?

All bog stock mate have no fans cooling the motor etc just the passing breeze...the gearing is suited well for hill climbs. I will still play with the ratios a lil more, be good to have it even lower geared, will make using 4 and 5 gear an option...As is 1st and 2nd gear are reeeeeally all thats needed 70clicks in 2nd is too fast IMHO I'm happy cruising around at 40km/hr feels alot safer

I'm using an older version of the MY1020 though it's rated at 1200W which I think was optimistic on Unites part, so they just re-labeled it as the New Improved 1000W...

Interesting, i had thought about grabbing one of the 1200watt motors when i saw them, unfortunately TNC Scooters dont sell them, the 60v 1000watt motor they have looks short and fatter might just be the pic...The only real way to go from here is an ETek though LoL THE ONLY WAY...LOL

 

[AussieJester]

Was talkin to Matt today on da alcapone about the hill climb, i glanced down at my connections and was, well ::shocked:: to see the
melted plastic connection from output from my watts up to battery..not the wires, the plastic connectors i bought from TNC Scooters
Matt asked the max watts the meter logged, i hadn't even checked, (long as the bike is going fast forward im happy the rest is details details details...all to much for this hillbilly ) aaaanywayz...it was over 4000watts...according to the watts up meter...
This seems odd to me, a motor 'rated' at 1000watt pulling 4000watt and not getting warmer than sock out of a drier...but
yet melting connectors :-S In the famous words of a well known Aussie polly "Please Explain"

 

[AussieJester]

AJ,

Never seen a "Watts-Up", so I may be off base, but I'd guess it measures current through some type of shunt... Did it come with a shunt or did you have to supply the shunt???

Either way what value is it???

I wired in the Watts Up meter only matey, Watts Up
is wired up on the wire from battery to speed controller. ie. Load and Source

Got me puzzled anywayz, the plastic connector a few inches from the positive connection on the batteries is the one thats melted, its not totally fried but enough to not be able to disconnect it anymore-->

Apologies for quality of pic its still dark in the garage LoL

Max volts reading is 122v which is also strange to me as the Watts Up is only rated to 100v

Only reason im concerned is because it melted the connector, apart from that it runs fine, motor
is only ever so slightly warm after caning it...I don't need it breaking done on me thats for sure, its
alot of weight to move.

Cheers for input Frank...

Kim

 

[Reid Welch]

Kim,

I have an unneeded Drain Brain in a custom transparent blue case.
Now that I have the new eZee kit from Renaissance Bicycle Company, and bought the DB's successor,
the Cycle Analyst, I have no real need for the Drain Brain.

It would serve you better, I think, than a Watts Up meter.

May I send it to you as a "contribution to the cause", matey?
Just for a little gift, as I would rather give this to a friend than to sell it for whatever it could fetch today.

If interested, just PM me your email address?
No worries. No charity. Just empathy and excitement here for your continued improvement of The Wheel.

r.

 

[AussieJester]

Damn Reid that would be fantastic mate, i would at least like to pay postage though..
I hadn't heard of the Drain Brain just googled and got up to speed on it LoL..

I looked at buying the Cycle Analyst but again the price was the killer with the current
situation of the dollar :-( Im sure the Drain brain will be an upgrade on the Watts Up...

Thanks Reid I very much appreciate it

Kim

 

[deecanio]

DB is sweet Kim,
you'll love it - i never bothered with CA as i couldn't really make use of its features but i love my DB
Mr Welch......you rock sir 8)


Cheers,

D

 

[safe]

May I send it to you as a "contribution to the cause", matey?

Hey that's a great thing to do.

 

[AussieJester]

Hey Deec..yes i am rapt at the generosity of one Mr Reid, the DB shall be a definite improvement over the Watts Up thats for sure...

Now to wait for a newbie member to join who is in need of some monitoring and i can "pay it forward" <-fantastic movie for those that havent seen it .......and send my Watts Up on to them...im a great believer in Karma. The help given by members in forums also never ceases to amaze me...

KiM

 

[AussieJester]

LiL Update

I picked up some engine core plugs from the Auto Shop
few weeks back but until today hadn't got around to fitting
them.

First a BIG thanks to my good friend Noel (Irish) for taking
these to his work drilling them and turning the bur off in the
lather...cheers mate

I will polish these up, they are solid brass will be a nice
contrast to springer forks once they have been chromed...

I also picked up some 70amp anderson connectors to
replace my melted connector along with a key isolator switch...
more on that installed at a later date...The second hand
Shimano Deore XT derailleur I won one eBay last weekend
arrived Friday to, i got a deadset BARGAIN on this, 60 bucks
and its veeeery hard to tells its ever been used, not a mark
on the sprockets no scratches very happy, i have ordered
a single Shimano rapid fire shifter from LBH it should be in mid
next week ::fingers crossed:: on that...

Kim

 

[AussieJester]

So i wired up the key switch thing-a-ma-jig took a cruise round the block no probs, went to bottlo grabbed some beer, then coming down the hill on the way back the trike lost power to the motor, Watts Up still displaying but the motor no go :-S this happened in my drive way once before just after i installed the new speed controller, i unplugged the power from it and reconnected and it was fine, this doesn't do jack this time any ideas fellas?

Kim

 

[michaelplogue]

Hey Kim - I saw this and thought about you and your mentioning towing your chair behind your trike. It's a wheelchair designed by the Go-ped scooter company using their fancy suspension system. They now have an adapter for one of their electric scooters so it connects right on to it. Pretty nifty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvSBvmYBlxM&feature=channel_page

 

[AussieJester]

Nice looking chair i like the independent suspension, would
like to see one up close though, having broken a number of chairs i require somethinga lil more 'heavy duty' than most as they get bit of rough treatment. Would like to see Aaron Fotheringham backfliping one and rapping it round the skate park though (watch vid at 2.30min mark for first ever wheelchair backflip...the kid was 14 at the time...)

I had a similar idea of using a dscooter but was going to use the rear wheel of the scooter and attach it behind the chair, popping a wheelie in the chair would have the third (driving wheel) contact the road...

 

[AussieJester]

Well i messed about with this broke speed controller to no avail...Wont be buying one of these things again either, the top and bottom well, what i thought were the top and bottom of the container the speed controller was in, was in fact foam, the whole box was just foam pumped in to seal everything, i picked out as much as i could on the backside of the board but it was fruitless even trying to attempt getting the board out wasn't gunna happen SO...Kelly speed controller the go fellas?


This was suggested previously(unfortunately after i had aid for the controller thats now dead) I would like to know though ...from those 'in the know' if i should go for something a little higher in the amp range... i thought this might be a better option seeing the Watts Up meter is reading max amps at 122 in current form :-S

200amp kelly controller

Can one of you electrical geniuses give me some input please...OH and my current throttle will this work on these controllers or should i buy one of theirs?...I'll need the cable to plug into my pc also i imagine? I would like to get this organized (paid for and shipped) before Christmas if possible... so any advice is greatly appreciated...Any other vendors/suppliers of speed controllers you fellas could recommend also would be appreciated ... If theres anything else you fellas could suggest i add please let me know...

Thanks fellas...

Kim