Easy Pedling on electric Bicycle (Geared or Gearless)

[Kionic]

Hi Guys,
I want to discuss some technical matter with you all regarding Pedaling a electric Bicycle without battery power.
Since I have build a few Electric Bicycle, I've observed Geared Hub motor e-Cycles are very easy to pedal without power but where's there's a Gearless Hub Motor It drags very much. In my 1500w Motor Bicycle only can be pedaled on bigger gear & that also very difficult.

I've removed the Gearless Motor connection & then tired Pedaling as I thought it's working like a Dynamo & drags to generate some energy but even after opening the Connection also the Drag remains Same.
It's not because of the weight I believe as I can easily Pedal the Bicycle with 55kg sister when it was not electrified.

On Geared Motor there's a Clutch kind of mechanism. when on Pedal it frees the Motor winding, So its' easy to pedal.

Pedaling is an very important thing as it's a BiCYLE 1st then Elctric. If no Pedaling possible then why Bicycle, will go for Electric MotorBike or Scooty.
Pedaling gives a good mental & Physical health & gives positive energy, reduce stress. In worst case there's some failure in the system you have pedal it to home or garage. Please help me Pedaling a Gearless Hub motor.

 

[motomech]

I doubt many riders here w/ ebike experience ever uses it as a bicycle first. More like use it as a bicycle-only only when the motor system fails, and hopefully not far.
Even the geared ones seem to be harder to pedal without power than the weight and resistance would cause it to be. A case of the "sum being greater than the parts".

But if that i what you want to do and as far as cogging is concerned, a member here, dogman, has pointed out that holding the throttle on in a low steady state can overcome the cogging. That is actually how most assist-style riders here ride. They set the desired cruise speed w/ either the PAS or cruise and pedal on top of that. With the newer "torque imitation" controllers, a natural bicycle effect can be had. Even a simple 3-speed can work well on a long straight, if one did their homework and matched system speed w/ their desired road speed.
The resistance of the DD motor can not be helped, so if it still is a problem, you could go back to a geared motor (what I prefer for several reasons), or better yet I.M.O., buy another bicycle.

 

[docw009]

Not too many ebikers care about easy pedalling, I do though, and I've never used a direct drive motor kit. I've considered it, because they're only around $149 at times, but naah, I'm like you. It was a bike first, and should still ride like one.

I was going to buy one of the Luna kits once because the controller was in the hub. I thught it would be a clean look but it didn't support a PAS sensor. Another one they had, I found that pedal assist was really a cruise control. You pressed the button at a desired speed, and as long as you pedalled, the motor ran. Ugh. And someone said that most of the 1000-1500W direct drive kits all run up at max speed under any pedal assist. More ugh.

None of my hub motors, from 250W thru 750W have perceptible drag from the clutch when riding. I can feel it when turning the axle with my fingers, but it;s nothing when rolling at 5 mph.

Grin technologies is releasing a high power geared motor where they've locked out the clutch. The motor is always engaged/spinning. They believe this will give customers both the grunt from a gear driven motor, plus regen. I don't know who would want this. They must never have driven stick shift cars. If I couldn't use the clutch to coast, the driving experience would be awful.

 

[amberwolf]

But if that i what you want to do and as far as cogging is concerned, a member here, dogman, has pointed out that holding the throttle on in a low steady state can overcome the cogging.

The Phaserunner has a new firmware to be able to do this automatically (I think you have to set the current in programming it, but once done it'll do it for you).

 

[Nick2]

It is difficult to objectively estimate the drag from the motor or even the clutch because human body is constantly adapting to new conditions. I call it the "electric legs" syndrom. When I started riding my TSDZ2 kit bike, I felt that there was no significant drag in the drivetrain. About a week later, i felt that somehow drag has increased somehow, started checking the drivetrain etc. Then I realized that even when riding my old Scott (just a plain bicycle without any motor), I felt that there is some drag involved, started checking brake pads etc. Then I realized it is me, not the bike - I am used now to an electric assist and that's all to it.

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

I definitely fall into the category of bicycle first

Since day one of e-bike riding I pedal any time it's producing power although I do have a throttle for fine control of applied power

I've gotten reasonably fit (even though old and "disabled") and generally take off without the power turned on

Once I get settled into pedaling power off I'll typically bring in about 75W and run it like that for a while until I'm "warmed up", on level that'll give me 12-14mph (it is a heavy fat-bike after all)

For me the electric thing is all about going faster = more range, less time to travel it (I get bored if too slow)

When cruising on level I'm typically pulling 150-350w depending on wind, etc and traveling in the 16-18mph range

500+w is not terribly common and mostly when super hard head wind or hill climbing although 500w is common enough on fire roads and other rough terrain

1500w is very uncommon and is generally reserved for really silly steep stuff off-road

YMMV

 

[AHicks]

Guys,
You're not going to change the fact a DD hub has drag on it when pedaling with no power. Not a chance. If it's exercise you're after, assuming you have a KT or other configurable controller, you CAN change how much power is available in PAS 1 using the parameters. Set it down where there is still SOME power (maybe 50w?), but not so much where it's providing much in the way of assistance. At about 50w, there's enough power for the controller's internal housekeeping, and enough going to the motor where there's no otherwise noticeable drag.

OR

Convert to a gear drive and loose your regen. -Al

 

[AZeBikeGuy]

One of many reasons not interested in DD hub

Everyone has a different "mission" - the tool of choice for mine (a bicycle experience) is the mid

The OP would likely be better served by the same IMO