Ebike brake quality

[auraslip]

Lets face it; E-bike brakes are horrible. The wuxing ebrake lever is about as quality as a wal-mart bike. I pulled the handle out to far to look at the switch and it broke. It takes a full hand to lock up the rear wheel, when I can do this with just a single finger with my bottom of the line avids.

I would pay $50 for a set of good quality ebrake levers, if any one has a source or can custom make some for me.



Also what is the deal with ebikekit.com's disc calipers and rotors @ $16 a set? I googled the maker "YUS", and found nothing but alibaba type B2B trade listings. I'm not going to trust my life with something I can't even find online...

 

[Hillhater]

I have never understood the need to have the brakes electrically interlocked with the drive power on Ebikes.
it is not deemed necessary on moto bikes , mopeds, scooters, cars ,trucks or even aircraft...so why Ebikes ??

 

[FMB42]

My Wuxing lever/holders are, IMO, barely a step above the plastic factory pre-stripped units you get on a cheap Walmart special. Another problem is that some of the brake cables today are often very spongy.

I've been thinking about attempting to modify a good set of (motorcycle?) lever holders so as to accept an e-bike brake switch...

Otherwise, I'm convinced that name brand well made hydraulic disk brakes are the only way to go for any serious high speed ebike.

 

[GTR2EBIKE]

even crappy discs will be far better than traditional wheel brakes. I can't tell if your complaining more about the brakes or the levers? I doubt the levers are the problem they probably aren't adjusted or the cables aren't correctly. If it is the brakes you are concerned about buy a good set of disc's or buy a new frame with good disc's.

Agreed with the above I don't have e-brake handles I don't know what the need for them is.

 

[FMB42]

I agree hillhater.

The only reasons I can think of (for having ebike brake switches) is for cruise control systems and, the possibility (?) of damaging the motor or controller by applying the throttle with the brake(s) on.

 

[John in CR]

I have never understood the need to have the brakes electrically interlocked with the drive power on Ebikes.
it is not deemed necessary on moto bikes , mopeds, scooters, cars ,trucks or even aircraft...so why Ebikes ??

Because some fairly common failures can result in a WOT condition. It's essentially a standard on all electric vehicles, from golf carts to mining transports.

 

[heathyoung]

Yep, especially on brushed motors. Mind you, on a brushed controller, once the mosfets have died shorted, the only way you are gunna stop that sucker is to blow a fuse (stall it) or pull the power somehow. Or come off 'gracefully' and steer it into an immovable object. Best not to ask how I figured that one out.

 

[amberwolf]

I don't think much of the e-brake levers, either; I've got at least three, maybe four different kinds, and none of them are any better than (or even as good as, in some cases) the stuff on the cheap bikes I tend to get off Freecycle and yardsales and stuff for my projects.

So...the best solution is to use your regular levers that work for you, and add the ebrake switch to those or elsewhere along the line. There are a few threads and many posts about doing this; I've done it at least three ways I can recall, and seen it done here on ES two or three more.

On DayGlo Avenger's first friction drive with an actual controller (brushed), I setup two momentary NO pushbutton switches on the actual brake lever handle, to engage the brake line of the controller. Two were used because I was still wearing my DayGlo ski gloves at the time and the fingertips on them don't pass any tactile data thru, so I needed a wide area in case I missed one switch I'd get the other.

On CrazyBike2, with 2QD's open-throttle-line-for-braking method, I used a reed switch and a magnet placed so that the switch would disengage when I pulled the lever in a bit, disconnecting the throttle which automatically shuts down the controller. I think I also tried a switch setup but I can't recall the details.

On DayGlo Avenger, I used an identical switch to the friction drives, but this time on the brake cables down on the front fork.

Here on ES I've seen a reed and a hall used on the cable, and also both used on regular brake levers, in a couple of ways.

At one point someone was selling some magnets and switches to attach to the bottom of the lever/mount, to do the same thing.

So you don't have to try to find good levers--just use the ones you have and add switches wherever is convenient for your setup.

That said, there are some good levers with switches built in, but they're not for bikes--they're for motorcycles and bigger scooters, where the switches in the levers activate the brake light in the taillight. Those are what CrazyBike2 currently uses, although I do not yet have them wired to control the ebrake itself--when I do, I'll be using a relay to do it just like I did on DayGlo Avenger's taillight/brakelight switch.

 

[Hillhater]

I have never understood the need to have the brakes electrically interlocked with the drive power on Ebikes.
it is not deemed necessary on moto bikes , mopeds, scooters, cars ,trucks or even aircraft...so why Ebikes ??

Because some fairly common failures can result in a WOT condition. It's essentially a standard on all electric vehicles, from golf carts to mining transports.

If that is the case, i would rather have a main power "kill" switch , than rely on the brake switch control wiring still working in the case of an electronic melt down.
Doesnt the concept of "Fail Safe" factor in to these controller designs ??

What is more silly, is the fact that most of these brake interrupts are designed & installed on bikes with 250W or less, that any half decent set of brakes would stall instantly ! :lol:

 

[auraslip]

One word: Regen

 

[FMB42]

auraslip writes;

"One word: Regen"

Bingo!

There's always something more to learn here at ES.

 

[Hillhater]

One word: Regen

Yep ! .. that would be a valid reason...
....but what proportion of Ebikes use regen ??
PS .. none of the "commercial" consumer Ebikes i have come across use regen.

 

[auraslip]

Any infenion controller is regen capable. You just need to solder one connection on the controller.

 

[jateureka]

The other thing is a lot of cheap e-brake levers are designed for use with centre-pull cantilever or side pull caliper brakes and not ideal for use if upgrading to V-brakes which require a long pull low tension lever, as per Sheldon Brown's comments http://sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

On the Hao Shun I have, the levers and the mounts were both plastic (goes with the plastic handlebars!) and operate a plastic centre pull cantilever brake up front. [brakes were actually not plastic but rather 'resin coated steel'].
I've upgraded to V-brake up front and will be adding an e-brake switch to a standard V-brake lever . Some examples:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=11760
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19854
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21261
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18944

 

[Hillhater]

On the Hao Shun I have the levers and the mounts were both plastic and operate a plastic centre pull cantilever brake up front.

There is no place for plastic brake components on any road going bike !

Brake systems and levers should always be carefully matched, it is critical to have the correct levers for the type of calliper in use .
Brake components are much more complex than they appear.
EG: "V" brakes levers (real ones) have a non linear action to give a fast motion of the pad to the rim, then a slower, high mechanical advantage pull, to apply and regulate the brake force.
Use the wrong levers, and you will not get the best brake function.

 

[neptronix]

My theory is that they're there to stop the pedal assist.

I've ridden 2-4 eBikes where the pedal assist controller is connected, and at times, the assist can engage at full throttle unexpectedly while not pedaling if the pedal is at a certain degree! very dangerous!!

So for me and my girlfriend's eBikes, NO pedelec sensor and NO cheap brake levers!! Girlfriend's bike has a toggle switch to cut the throttle, as for mine i'll figure out a way.

I also wish someone made a quality emergency brake type lever.

 

[jateureka]

On the Hao Shun I have the levers and the mounts were both plastic and operate a plastic centre pull cantilever brake up front.

There is no place for plastic brake components on any road going bike !

A lot of Kmart quality bikes have what looks like plastic brake parts but are actually plastic coated steel brake parts, which is OK. Mine had no steel in the bars, levers or mounts, just in the cantilever - hense the upgrade.
And yes, I do know that V-Brakes are only compatible with long pull levers, but I have seen some e-bikes with V-brakes and standard levers and people selling e-brake levers saying they are universal fit.

 

[jateureka]

Another neat example of how to add a switch to a standard brake lever here http://www.electricbikemag.net/showStory.php?storynum=34
it is part of the Wisper Daahub kit, so you may be able to buy it as a spare part. The cable tie on the brake cable knurled adjuster might be a pain if you wear your brakes down quickly though.

 

[auraslip]

I've also discovered itselectric.com sells a brake add on kit for $15. I'm waiting to here back from them, but I'll be sure to let ya'll know how well it attaches to my avid single digit levers.

 

[jateureka]

It seems there is a new style of in-line brake switch now available that you can supposedly fit to any cable operated brake line so you can keep your high end levers or your dual brake/gear lever assembly.
It's called a Hidden Wire Brake Sensor or HWBS. Haven't seen one in the flesh to know how it works but here's a link to one seller http://www.aliexpress.com/product-g...esale-very-very-hot-products-wholesalers.html

Another way to keep your own levers is to adapt [glue/screw] on a sensor and magnet made for an e-bike like eZee or Wisper, etc. http://glowwormbicycles.com.au/store/spare-parts/e-brake-sensor

 

[jateureka]

Another source for reed switches is the wired speedo sensor from a cycle computer.
You can get these computers off ebay for a few dollars complete with magnet sensor and mounting hardware. Just need to mount it to the brake and add a connector to plug into the controller.
I don't know why I didn't think of this before

 

[jateureka]

It seems that Crystalyte Europe is now selling the Hidden Wire Brake Sensor.

I bought a sample off AliExpress and it works well. Would be ideal for those who want to keep their original (or upgraded) cable operated brake levers or those that have integrated brake/shifter levers.

 

[auraslip]

Thanks for the update jateureka. I saw those brakes on alieexpress, and they looked interesting.

Could you post pictures or maybe a video?

 

[jateureka]

I'll try to take some pictures on the weekend.

Basically there is a mechanism inside that alloy housing that grips the brake cable, so when you apply the brake it pulls the cable and activates the sensor. Haven't opened it up to see what the sensor actually is but some web sites state it incorporates a PLL so may be a hall switch.

I bought mine from BTN, Kevin Fang. Anyway, the sensor basically shorts out the signal wire (blue) to the ground wire (yellow! just to confuse things) and if you connect red to +5V then the red LED will activate when you apply the brakes.

The only down side is my sensors came with JST SM male connectors, but most of the controllers I have use the HB style connector, so I'll have to swap out the connctors. If you order some then it might be a good idea to specify what connector you want.

 

[voicecoils]

Interesting discussion.

Many E-S users are riding pretty fast / powerful bikes and should probably consider hydraulic disc brakes if they don't already run them.

Magura makes an inline pressure switch to allow any hydraulic brake to trigger the e-brake signal:

http://www.ebike-easy.com/products/Bicycle-Parts/BionX-Press-Switch-for-Magura-brakes.html

If you need that function to cut the motor power or engage regen, that's the best solution I've seen.

It came up in an E-S thread a little while back.