Ebikes.ca Cycle Lumenator is Here

[Mark@Renaissance]

Hi,

I was warned that it's best they not be left on in still air.

That sounds lame. How long can you leave it on in still air. What happens if you exceed the limit (melts insulation inside, destroys light or melts housing or burn yourself if you touch the light)?

Hi all,

For those curious, here are some temperature plots of Cycle Lumenator (LED Heatsink and External Light Housing temp along with ambient) measured under various ambient conditions.

Even under stationary conditions indoors at room temperature, the LED Metal-Core PCB stays below 100°C. All of the components inside are rated for 105°C or higher (150°C for the Cree XP-G LEDs). That said, this light was designed to be used while riding around in the dark at speeds of 30km/h and greater.

As ktronik mentioned, yes the LED luminous flux will decrease when the LED junction temperature is above 25°C (see the XP-G datasheet http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/XLampXP-G.pdf for more info). At the steady-state LED heatsink temp of 50°C measured outside riding, the luminous output of the LEDs would be about 5% below that at room temperature.

I advised Zoot Katz against leaving the Cycle Lumenator on in still air because the external housing temperature will reach about 75°C (steady-state), or about 55°C above ambient) when left on with no air circulation. A similar 10W halogen light housing left on under the same conditions was measured about 10°C higher then the Cycle Lumenator so anyone used to using lights in the 10-30W range should not be too surprised by this.

 

[amberwolf]

Could be advertised as a handwarmer, too, then! Install one on each bar-end, stay warm and well-lit.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi Mark,

I was warned that it's best they not be left on in still air.

That sounds lame. How long can you leave it on in still air. What happens if you exceed the limit (melts insulation inside, destroys light or melts housing or burn yourself if you touch the light)?

For those curious, here are some temperature plots of Cycle Lumenator (LED Heatsink and External Light Housing temp along with ambient) measured under various ambient conditions.

Even under stationary conditions indoors at room temperature, the LED Metal-Core PCB stays below 100°C. All of the components inside are rated for 105°C or higher (150°C for the Cree XP-G LEDs). That said, this light was designed to be used while riding around in the dark at speeds of 30km/h and greater.…

Sounds good!

Thanks for posting the explanation.

And thanks Zoot Katz for notifying Mark that further information would be useful :wink:

 

[Zoot Katz]

Hi Mark,

I was warned that it's best they not be left on in still air.

That sounds lame. How long can you leave it on in still air. What happens if you exceed the limit (melts insulation inside, destroys light or melts housing or burn yourself if you touch the light)?

For those curious, here are some temperature plots of Cycle Lumenator (LED Heatsink and External Light Housing temp along with ambient) measured under various ambient conditions.

Even under stationary conditions indoors at room temperature, the LED Metal-Core PCB stays below 100°C. All of the components inside are rated for 105°C or higher (150°C for the Cree XP-G LEDs). That said, this light was designed to be used while riding around in the dark at speeds of 30km/h and greater.…

Sounds good!

Thanks for posting the explanation.

And thanks Zoot Katz for notifying Mark that further information would be useful :wink:

Mark was a few steps ahead of me. He'd posted the graphs of the tests shortly before I walked into the shop.

I bought another Cycle Lumenator after seeing how great they are.
This one is on EBII mounted to a saddle bag loop attached under the stem faceplate.

 

[icecube57]

I know there has been a lot of praise by me and other people about the Lumenator. I went for a dusk ride on my local trail. I got several comments from other cyclist and joggers about my light being so bright and that they can see what they were doing. The intensity is so great that even at far distances its an issue.I wanted to put a PSA up about Lumenator. The beam flood,throw and intensity is great. This will cause you to aim the light a lot higher than normal. If you angle the light to where you have the greatest illumination it blinds oncoming cyclist and drivers. To those of you that have the Lumenator please check this for yourself. Stand in front of the beam and walk backwards and see how far you have to walk until the beam isn't affecting your vision. Get a chair and sit in front of the beam. This is what other cyclist and drivers are seeing when they pass you. Have a helper angle the light downward until its no longer affecting your vision. Then hop back in the saddle of your bike and look how awful and low the beam is. I feel there is a true safety issue for you as the rider and for others around you. The light is so bright that it draws oncoming traffic's attention to focus on you and not the road and can cause erratic behavior with passerby's. Me and my neighbor experimented with longer hood and blinders on the side of the light to reduce the flood height and to concentrate it a bit more lower on the ground. it helps bit not a lot This maybe a lens issue. This may be also addressed internally with the a new driver so we can adjust the beam intensity by pressing the power button to cycle through different power levels. Or possibly being able to activate the top and bottom leds separately. One for close distance. The other for throw and both for full throw. I love the light but i felt like an asshole when I put myself in their shoes and experienced the light show I was serving other people.

 

[Zoot Katz]

I know there has been a lot of praise by me and other people about the Lumenator. I went for a dusk ride on my local trail. I got several comments from other cyclist and joggers about my light being so bright and that they can see what they were doing. The intensity is so great that even at far distances its an issue.I wanted to put a PSA up about Lumenator. The beam flood,throw and intensity is great. This will cause you to aim the light a lot higher than normal. If you angle the light to where you have the greatest illumination it blinds oncoming cyclist and drivers. To those of you that have the Lumenator please check this for yourself. Stand in front of the beam and walk backwards and see how far you have to walk until the beam isn't affecting your vision. Get a chair and sit in front of the beam. This is what other cyclist and drivers are seeing when they pass you. Have a helper angle the light downward until its no longer affecting your vision. Then hop back in the saddle of your bike and look how awful and low the beam is. I feel there is a true safety issue for you as the rider and for others around you. The light is so bright that it draws oncoming traffic's attention to focus on you and not the road and can cause erratic behavior with passerby's. Me and my neighbor experimented with longer hood and blinders on the side of the light to reduce the flood height and to concentrate it a bit more lower on the ground. it helps bit not a lot This maybe a lens issue. This may be also addressed internally with the a new driver so we can adjust the beam intensity by pressing the power button to cycle through different power levels. Or possibly being able to activate the top and bottom leds separately. One for close distance. The other for throw and both for full throw. I love the light but i felt like an asshole when I put myself in their shoes and experienced the light show I was serving other people.

I'm wondering what effect could be had by mounting the lamp lower. Maybe on the fork leg or fender eyelets.
It would certainly illuminate the surface hazards in sharp contrast. Whether it will throw the beam far enough, without blinding oncoming traffic while still facilitating high speed operation, remains to be seen.

I did notice that on narrow paths and side streets it presented more of a problem than on wide streets because of the diffusion of the beam.
I figure that traveling at bike-path speeds I don't need the brightness of the Cycle Lumenator or I'd be the asshole just for going that fast.

The generator light guys know how to make the most of 6V.
Here's a couple good articles about bicycle headlamp beam shape:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/headlights.asp
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/plight.asp

 

[liveforphysics]

You need a cut-off plate. Its a very simple thing to make (but a hard thing to adjust until you like it), you could just use heavy tin-foil and rubber cement.


For example, this is an example of powerful HID lighting on a car, but with correct cut-off-lines, so it only dazzles eyes that happen to be a couple feed off the ground. To on comming walkers or bikes, the light appears very dim, but it's intense at the ground level where you need it.

This is an example of a cut-off plate in an HID headlight.

It takes some tinkering to get how you like it, but hell, spend a little time with some foil, rubber cement, and keep trying positions and lighting up a wall until you get something that you like. Something that may be counter-intutitive when you're tinkering, if you're very close to the final optic (a parabolic reflector in this case), you shade/block the bottom half of the reflector, it blocks out the top of the beam, and when you block the top side, it shades out the bottom of the beam.

 

[Zoot Katz]

You need a cut-off plate. Its a very simple thing to make (but a hard thing to adjust until you like it), you could just use heavy tin-foil and rubber cement ...

Thanks for the tip.
A piece of heavy foil molded around the bezel to blank out the top LED and the top half of the two middle ones looks like it may be a possibility.
I've got to cut up some discs and go play in the street.

 

[icecube57]

Im going to try mounting the light to my right fork leg and angle the light more downward and to the right. There seems to be a very gentle flood to the left that should be bright enough for you to see to your left but the direct beam internsity isnt aimed directly at people on the path. There is an intense immedate flood of the ground around your bike and maybe 20 feet in front so you throw distance is greatly reduced but you can see everything that in front of you in your lane but its softly illuminating the oncoming traffic lane. With 2-3 clicks to turn the light up or down you can restore full throw distance on your side of the path but your left side still doesnt have tru full illumination. On bike path the contrast is so high because there is no ambient lighting. So your eyes iris is wide open. But when there is ambient lighting your eyes are more adjusted to block more light. It can only be compared to sitting in the dark for 5 minutes and then shining the Lumenator at yourself for 3-5 seconds and look at how compromised your vision is. But if you have a lamp in the room thats on and someone shines the lumenator at you for 3-5 seconds it seems that you vision is nearly unaffected.

 

[icecube57]

You need a cut-off plate. Its a very simple thing to make (but a hard thing to adjust until you like it), you could just use heavy tin-foil and rubber cement.


For example, this is an example of powerful HID lighting on a car, but with correct cut-off-lines, so it only dazzles eyes that happen to be a couple feed off the ground. To on comming walkers or bikes, the light appears very dim, but it's intense at the ground level where you need it.

This is an example of a cut-off plate in an HID headlight.

It takes some tinkering to get how you like it, but hell, spend a little time with some foil, rubber cement, and keep trying positions and lighting up a wall until you get something that you like. Something that may be counter-intutitive when you're tinkering, if you're very close to the final optic (a parabolic reflector in this case), you shade/block the bottom half of the reflector, it blocks out the top of the beam, and when you block the top side, it shades out the bottom of the beam.

I would be worried about some the heat from the light getting reflected back into an already scorcdhing light. It seems like essentially you are doing the same thing that tilting the light down is doing. The other problem that I see is that your cut off plate is working on a focused beam of light. The lumenator has no focus its just going to flood no matter how you cover the front of the light. It wont have that definite clean crisp line as your cut off plate does. We paid for 1000 lumens. I dont mean this in a smart way but if i wanted less light I would buy a smaller light. Im trying to figure out away to address a problem without elaborate modification. I think the above i is a good solution for me.

 

[Ypedal]

When I ride at night, usually late after cars have virtually vacated the roads, street lights every 500 meter or so, for me the brighter the better and my Norco Chaos will have 2 CL's ! muahahaha..

I will have to try that whole testing how bright blinding the light is from the front end.. hmmm.. can't be worse than a car headlight.. and we get them in the face all the time.

Hell.. i might even get a 3rd to point behind me with a red filter !

 

[icecube57]

The cut off plate doesnt quite work how you expect. It does decrease the lumen ouput but you dont have that clear distinct line like the car HIDs have. You just get a softer flood to where it does appear dimmer but i covered up 3 leds and if its in your direct field of vision its still annoying as hell. I used some black tape to make a quick mock to see how it would look.

 

[icecube57]

I will have to try that whole testing how bright blinding the light is from the front end.. hmmm.. can't be worse than a car headlight.. and we get them in the face all the time.

8) Yeah try it out tonight and post your opinion. Its like looking a car with an illegal HID kit. The legal ones have been engineered and have a focused beam the projects on the road way with a certain thrown and a certain beam height. The illegal ones shine where ever they damn well please.

Beam... what is this beam you speak of!

 

[amberwolf]

Something that may be counter-intutitive when you're tinkering, if you're very close to the final optic (a parabolic reflector in this case), you shade/block the bottom half of the reflector, it blocks out the top of the beam, and when you block the top side, it shades out the bottom of the beam.

For those that have never taken apart an HID lamp or played with lenses, the reason that it is inverted like this is usually because the shade and light are behind the magnifying/focusing lens, on the far side of the focal point. So just like most other single-lens systems (including your eye), it inverts the image vertically. A parabolic reflector could do the same thing as a single lens, AFAICR.

If the lumenator does not use a final stage focusing lens for it's light output, then you will not likely get this effect, and the shade also will not have quite the same effect, becuase it is not being "projected" with the light source as in an HID lamp. It may still help significantly, though.

Some detailed explanations (with math I can't follow) of why and how these things work:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lens_(optics)

If possible, use a mirror or a white surface for the backside (facing LEDs) of the shade, so that it will be able to re-use a large portion of backscattered light by re-reflecting it back outward again, rather than absorbing it into the shade and reradiating it as heat.

 

[Mark@Renaissance]

Interesting discussion everyone. It's great to have this feedback and we'll definitely be working to improve the Cycle Lumenator in the future. Does anyone have examples of other LED bicycle (or motorcycle?) lights that deal with the issue of blinding oncoming traffic? It would be great to see if anyone else making LED lights of this brightness has dealt with this particularly well.

A tighter focus beam and lower brightness mode(s) are definitely on the table for future versions. Would most of you be happy to dim down to half brightness when riding with oncoming traffic and switch back, or would it be worth investing R&D time into more complicated lens (and reflector?) systems that have a sharper cutoff at the top of the beam? Are two brightness levels enough? Does it matter if any of these changes increase the size of the light?

 

[icecube57]

I dont care about the size. I just think finding or making a driver that has multiple brightness modes using pwm would be fine. Have a secondary momentary push button to cycle through the modes. Or make it possible have a mode where it selects two leds that have a special lens for low aimed flood light and the other selection would be high distance and the next mode would be both. I really dont want to see you waste your time with the the lens cause i know dimming the light with pwm would work wonders as a short term fix and wouldnt require prototype of many lenses to create focal points. Due to the retarded nature of LEDs and their abilty to flood an area with light I think it would be hard to focus it infront of the light. You would have to reverse it and shine it into into a deep parabolic reflector. Then you have the issues of hot and cold spots and ring issues. I just want a quick momentary fix to where I can switch to a dimmer mode until the jogger biker or car has passed and i would immediately switch back to full high beams.

 

[liveforphysics]

The cut off plate doesnt quite work how you expect. It does decrease the lumen ouput but you dont have that clear distinct line like the car HIDs have. You just get a softer flood to where it does appear dimmer but i covered up 3 leds and if its in your direct field of vision its still annoying as hell. I used some black tape to make a quick mock to see how it would look.

The idea behind a cut-off-plate is to be reflective, and positioned right at the exit of the reflector, so it returns the part of the beam that would have exited with a high trajectory to dazzle peoples eyes, and reflect the rest of the light it stopped back into the reflector to exit again. You lose around 2% on each reflector bounce if you're using spectral grade aluminum for reflectors, and it takes something like 5 bounces to return and exit in the right direction if I remember correctly, so the light has about 10% loss from a properly done cut-off line.

Depending on the foci of the reflector, you can always have a cut plate after it on the top side, which ensures a clean cut-off, but most of the time it would mean mounting a cut-off plate out like a foot in front of the light, and then half the light is lost rather than getting bounced back to the reflector and re-emitted.

You can also just design an optic for the LED that is shaped to work like a cut-off-line. It's very difficult though. lol

I've done quite a bit of work with cut-off-lines and optic design. You can see some of my work with both LEDs and HIDs in beam shaping here:

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/part-1-lfps-xenon-and-led-reef-lighting-system/

 

[DervAtl]

Mark, this is an interesting issue for sure. I was with Chris (Icecube57) the other night when we experienced several people on the trial and received unsolicited responses as we met them (oncoming) that the light was blinding or too bright. After the ride, we experimented with tilting the light down and to the right just to see if it was easily solved by changing the aim. The point at which it was no longer blinding resulted in aiming it towards the ground approximately 6 feet in front of the bike. This severly limited the usefulness and would not be a viable solution.

I like the idea of two modes, where half the beam is tighter focused and the other half is dispersed as it is now. A switch where you could toggle either or both on might do the trick. You guys are breaking new ground in a way, as previously, most bike lights have just been too dim to have this problem. I also suspect that our problem was slightly exacerbated by the fact that we were on a bike trail that is approximately 8 feet wide (half going in one direction and half going the other), long straight-a-ways, and no ambient light. The experience might be markedly different on a roadway where there is more seperation between traffic and that has street lights on it.

 

[Zoot Katz]

Last night I tested it out on an unlit stretch of two lane road with some sketchy bike lane shoulder paint happening in places.
It has lots of curves and I used to blow bulbs with my generator set going down that hill. I'd also get blinded by approaching traffic.

With the Cycle Lumenator I wasn't out riding my light at 57 kph. (The speed limit is 50) Approaching traffic didn't have the blinding effect I'd experienced when using lesser headlights. Drivers also seemed quicker to lower their high beams.

A car pulled alongside to pass in an area of low ambient light.
The driver was wondering what's up with the bright bike light.
What was funny is he turned out to be an ebike friend who also has one.

Riding on well lit four lane streets I didn't really need the light but I left it on because it wasn't disturbing anyone.
It's bright enough to compete successfully in a light swamped traffic stream. I think it makes me more visible.

 

[Ypedal]

I have been testing mine as well, about this whole blinding light from the front thing, it's freakin BRIGHT but not all that worse than an on-comming car. The angle of the light seems to make little difference because if the emitter is visible, it's shining right into your eyeballs.. .. by the time you aim far enough down to prevent this you are aiming at your front tire.

2 of these CL's will be mounted on my Chaos tonight ! :wink:

 

[Lock]

Rather than a "cut-off plate" approach, could this light be hooded a bit more by extending the front hood forward? Shining the light through a "tunnel" so to speak to narrow the spot that way? I mean as a cheapy quick fix, where I would expect a lens/reflector mod would be the way to go long-term...
tks

 

[wojtek]

they are indeed great lights - used them for the whole season in 2010 and they never let me down and are really strong!!!! I have been using them on my semi-low recumbent bike non-stop, day and night. They do give me confidence of being more visible - i can see the reaction of drivers in the car, they are like "WTF is that!!!"

can you tell me how to install the 12v deans extension plug off the main ebike battery? [44v20ah]

many thanks!

 

[Alan B]

This Cycle Lumenator is a very impressive light.

Since it uses four separate LEDs with optics, it is not easy to cut the top of the beam off.

I plan to use this light as a "high beam", and use a different light as the "low beam". For this I need a good handlebar mounted Hi/Lo beam switch. This switch will merely turn the Cycle Lumenator on and off. The switch built into the Cycle Lumenator is not convenient enough to use for this.

For low beam I'm using an ebikes.ca multi LED epoxy encapsulated high voltage regulated white light. It is not very bright but is a great marker light.

To improve the Cycle Lumenator, I would suggest the following:

1) mask ONE of the four LED optics to produce a low beam with cut off pattern, angled level or slightly down.

2) Leave the other three LEDs as they are for high beam.

3) provide a remote switch for high/low beam that turns the three high beam LEDs on/off. The low beam LED can stay on. Alternately the high beam LEDs can be set to a low intensity for low beam so they become marker lights. Perhaps less than 10% of full power, some experimentation required here to determine the correct level.

4) use the existing rear pushbutton for overall on/off.

Overall I have to say the Cycle Lumenator is a Great high beam as it is!

Another approach would be to come up with a Cycle Lumenator optimized for low beam (with all four optics masked with upper beam cutoff), and the user can have one of each.

 

[MadRhino]

This 2 unit approach, is what I am using: One spot and one flood. Cycle lumenator is not convenient yet, for application over 100v. Until they offer hi-lo beam and higher voltage limit, I'll have to use independant lights. Or else, I'll install a 12v converter and go for motorcycle front and rear lightset, to have hi-lo beam and brake light.

 

[Alan B]

The Cycle Lumenator is rated for 15-100V so a pre-regulator can be used for higher voltage systems.

I tested mine at 12V and it seemed to work fine there as well. Best to stay within spec, though.