Electric Kayak

[Kurt]

After building a couple of electric bicycles I have been thinking about what other Vehicles could benefit from a electric motor. My wife and I have been looking at Kayaks lately and it got me thinking they make a great platform for a electric motor.Perhaps a small electric trolling motor the kits are cheap and easy to fit.

I have been looking at a Viking brand kayak .They have a fishing model that was designed with electrification in mind. They even sell a electric outboard kit for it.Lots of room for battery's. I was thinking you could even have a solar panel for charging as there is plenty of room .

http://www.vikingkayak.com.au/fishing_kayaks_tempo.htm


Most of the electric outboards run at 12 volts so I was thinking the same amount of lifepo4 cells to make a 20ah 48v pack could make a 80ah 12v pack. Though after thinking about some more, cutting weight isn't as important on the water. Perhaps a 120ah agm would be fine. I wouldn't like $1000 worth of lifepo4 and BMS going for a swim :lol:

This video of a home made kayak with motor.About 4min into the video you can see they move along ok .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB-vqiBUYKY

Kurt

 

[dogman dan]

It should work really well. But of course you get all the sla obsessive compulsive routines if use lead. Oughta be able to make a drybag with a wire coming out of it. Amazing how effective plain ol ziplocks can be for that.

 

[John in CR]

Electric kayaks for fishing are fairly common, and till prices on lithium come down some more there's nothing wrong with lead in that application, especially since 50lbs of lead centered in the bottom of your yak will only make it more stable. Have fun with it, and be sure to secure that battery well so a cable can't grab your leg when you go over and have that lead anchor drag you under.

John

 

[paultrafalgar]

If this great hoard of tourists can be solar powered, I think a solar roof on a kayak might be very possible; you'd have to watch the raising of the C of G though - you might want an outrigger.
http://www.tournorfolk.co.uk/neatishead/thera.jpg
View attachment thera.jpg

 

[Kurt]

On water 10kmh seams fast and there are no hills to climb but a but there is drag from the water. I would have to measure the power consumption and decide if its worth while to extend the range with solar. I was thinking two 120w panels would deliver about 15a to a 12v battery. Perhaps not enough to motor along with but it would reduce the load on the battery while driving and park it for 3hrs and you have just pumped 45ah back into the battery.We get a hot of sun in Australia.

I was thinking wouldn't it be great to do some kind of long distance camping trip up some of the rivers perhaps motor along until lunch time then pull up camp let the bats recharge for 5hrs then head off the next morning.

I always find distance on water always seams more kinda like 100km on water is like 800km on land.especial when int's a river with twists and turns.

Kurt.

 

[paultrafalgar]

Kurt, the link you posted at the top mentions motoring " between 5 and 8 hours with a 135 amp/hour" say thats 6 hours, then he's using 22 amp/hours per hour. Your two 120 watt panels are giving you 240 watts at 12 volts, that's 20amps, so you're charging at the same rate you're using approximately. (Maths on the fly ) Is that not right? Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Lock]

Gawd I love those English Broads (hehe just confusing my `Merican cousins...)

If this great hoard of tourists can be solar powered

I'm going to guess "not really"... That the solar panels will charge a battery pack over time but that it's the batts that do the "heavy lifting" for their 75 minute trips... See those pontoons? Lousy efficiency really. Cheap I guess. Horrible windage topside too...

Might want to discuss (marine) ideas with these good people also:
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/

tks
Lock
(Born to raise hull)

 

[paultrafalgar]

Lock, put English Damsels and pontoons out of your mind and concentrate on my electric kayak maths above! Is my maths OK?

 

[Kurt]

The 120w panels put out 7amps each at about 17v.

They say 135ah sla battery is good for 6hrs. I am thinking they don't run the sla battery completely flat i would say 75%. So that's 100ah over 6hrs . Around 16.5ah or around 200w.

With a double kayak being around 5m long you could fit 3 panels if needed. That would give you 300w.Would also provide some nice shade.It would make the kayak a little top heavy but the Viking brand kayaks are very stable as they are designed so you can stand up in the and cast a fishing rod.I also think the weight of a 135ah sla set down low would help with stability.

Kurt.

 

[Anonymous]

.

 

[Lock]

Lock, put English Damsels and pontoons out of your mind and concentrate on my electric kayak maths above! Is my maths OK?

Paul.. haven't checked your math... Many on ES are far more knowledgeable than I will ever be about that stuff. But some general (and biased) thoughts about electrifying a kayak:

Of the first two boats mentioned, the production boat is probably "bulletproof"... rotomolded HDPE I guess... and ugly as sin
Australian made w/Minn Kota so plenty of support and parts available I expect. Good resale value.

The second boat is a "woodie" either home built but probably better to buy at least the kit if not as finished. I expect it's lighter than the HDPE. Pretty as heck but will require maintenance. Only cardinal rule for wood is to keep it SEALED and NEVER let the water in... Probably zero resale value without careful care like canvas cover etc.

Kurt mentions "wife and I"? So room for two, plus gear and (we hope lots of) fish? Not sure... If around Brisbane (salt? fresh?) then sub-tropical and I concur with the thought that PBA is still OK for now versus Lithium. No really cool temps to deal with... Actually the problem might be more with heat with Brisbane summer temps and batts enclosed somewhere baking?

If *I* were Kurt... well, I know the Australians are great sailors and they are hot (many of them) for beach catamarans... And love to bash `em up in their ocean playgrounds...

In other words there are second-hand beach cats, probably hulls with no rigging that might be had for cheap. I'm thinking old Hobie 17's or 18's type of things. They are built very tough and watertight pretty much. On cats the standing rigging serves to stiffen everything up, but with use only in more sheltered waters and not pounding through surf etc. otta be OK w/out the rig.

Anyway, point is, ya get a huge amount of "deck" as ultraviolet-proof (usually) trampline... Easy to add another netting forward if lightly loaded eg with solar panels... The hulls are super-efficient. Easy to paddle so easy to power w/electrics.

The specs offered by those two first kayaks talk about very slow speeds and flat water and no wind? Geeeees... where do these ppl fish??? Hehehe

Thing is, there are river and ocean currents (maybe.) Sudden storms sweep in (maybe.) Someone gets injured (hope not.) So yah, fine, putter (do electrics "putter"?) around at 2-3 knots (trolling?) but give me a boat with some get up and go and lots of reserve energy if needed...

I used to boat camp in an 18ft cat. Plenty of room for two plus two coolers (one wet one dry) plus tent etc etc. This was under sail w/no power but if the power is electric and reliable that would simplify things considerably (compared to sails and mast and running rigging etc. Lots of room to sprawl if inclined to sunbath or snooze...

An old cat could provide a platform for some sort of fold up/down sunshade...

Lots of guys out there picking up long-shaft outboards w/dead power heads, losing the heads and bolting on etecks whatever...

Ya see, if there *were* any currents to "deal with" if I could anchor in a current to fish I would want to be spinning my prop as generator if possible... So two diff. power sources aboard including any panels...

MY "problem" is I stumbled into multihulls some decades ago and never looked back. I just find all "mono-marans" too scary tippy now

If I went "kayak" the first bit of gear I might install is a four foot piece of polyprop that trails in the water alongside the boat, for use as a stirrup if anyone ever ends up in the water... Oh yah, and one of those seaflea deadmans switches too Not much more depressing than finding yourself in the water with the boat motoring away from you...
tks
Lok

 

[csmarr]

I mounted an electric trolling motor on a 16 foot canoe a few years ago. It was really fun. I think it was 20 pounds thrust or so. I estimate the top speed at about 4 miles per hour. The powered range was probably less than 5 miles. That was probably with a gross loaded weight of 500 pounds. That's two passengers with fishing tackle and cooler with motor and battery. I think the you tube guy's range estimates are very optimistic. I went camping later that year in a wilderness enviornment and did not even consider using the motor.

 

[Lock]

More sample specs for range and speeds and HP here:
http://www.humberboats.ca/foton.htm

 

[Kurt]

I would be looking at putting a larger motor than the 28lb thrust perhaps around 40lb. If i was to go on long trips it would be in shelterd fresh water rivers the kind that are all ready popular with kayaks. In Australia that are glassy smooth fresh water rivers that stretch on for 1000s of km.Its the huge distance that made travelling in a electric/sola kayak appealing. some what of an adventure.

There is an example of a full size boat that is all ready travelling up and down this river. It is solar powdered and it can travel at 9knots using the battery's and if they run at 4.5 knots it can run on the sun alone.

Kurt

 

[Lock]

Kurt>>...If i was to go on long trips it would be in shelterd fresh water rivers...

Ah, OK, gotcha... lovely looking rivers... see `em before they evaporate

turns out kayaks are popular for fishers in Oz?
http://www.kfdu.com.au/forum/

And Hobie (who I think of as cat ppl) are into kayaks too:
http://fishwrecked.com/node/13319

Tks for the pic/reminder of that green boat (Mundoo II - Electric)...

Anywhoo looks like Australia (rivers and blue skies) are generating <hehe> lots of interest in solar boats:
http://www.solarnavigator.net/solar_powered_canoes.htm
Hey! There's Cedric!

8)

Anyway Kurt... all seems very do-able... (electric kayak.) Just my natural inclination to go two hulls for deck/panel space... Even just outfit the kayak as a proa to get the stability and again extra deck (netting as storage/panel space)
tks
Lock

 

[paultrafalgar]

Kurt, instead of using solar panels as a roof, forego the shade and fit them on an outrigger. Get a 6" diameter plastic pipe with a quarter inch wall (I'm thinking yellow pipes used for gas transmission). Block both ends (or better screw-cap them to stow fishing rods in). Two 5 foot lengths of 1.5 inch bamboo to lash the outrigger pipe to fore and aft. Couple of pieces of bamboo to go parallel to the boat from the outrigger and lash your solar panels on the bamboo. You then have a very stable craft with nothing overhead to impede casting. What do you think?

 

[Kurt]

You then have a very stable craft with nothing overhead to impede casting. What do you think?

It dose sound like a good idea to place the panels along side and the more I think about it Its probably the only way to go.Being able to stand up in the kayak and the huge amount of stability you gain not to mention the extra storage space.

I would probably go a little more elaborate than bamboo/gas pipe and string but that's just me . I think being able to remove one of the hulls and use it as a normal kayak is another advantage.

Most of the solar canoes/ kayaks that I have seen look very ugly. I think its because they just fix big square panels to the top of a nice sleek curved kayak and it just doesn't look good. Not to mention getting in the way of storage compartments. Fitting them to one side on a extra hull sounds much more tractive and functional .

I think I am sold on the idea of a removable twin hull.

 

[Lock]

>>...idea of a removable twin hull.


...but not a twin hull exactly? Read about tortured plywood and stitch-and-glue constructions... A 4x8' sheet of (marine? construction? grade plywood - or other 1/8" material?) can be cut in 1/2 lengthwise. The two pieces shaped (important part) together as one, then sewn (literally, usually with wire that is removed later) along bottom and up bow, then forced apart to be glued together... Add a couple of internal bulkheads (at beam attachment points) transom and deck (OK, maybe one inspection port too) and you are good to go. Wet out a little glass mat everywhere, maybe a few strips of kevlar at "keel" and bow. Paint.

Plans for a 20-foot hull here:
http://www.thebeachcats.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=6

Those plans are much more complicated than you need (because of the wracking forces of hulls fixed together by beams and the huge pressures involved in leaping off tall waves and slicing through same) but you get the idea. The attachment points for the beams DO NEED TO BE ROBUST. Both on the ama ("outrigger") as well as on the main hull. And I agree that bamboo as beams would be very OK for your application as well.

The reason why I would be more interested in forming a hull rather than the using pipe (bulletproof) idea is only for lightness and energy efficiency.
Light, stiff and cheap are not three things you usually see in combination but tortured ply is very close.

Personally I would just provide eyes at attachment points so I could use lines (ropes) to lash the beams to the hulls. Provides a bit of give (always better if things give a bit rather than snap, like skyscrapers swaying in the wind.) Easy to inspect visually (wear in lines) easy to replace and easy to tie and untie w/out tools if you know a little knotting... That's the way James Wharram attached beams in his huge ocean-going cat designs...

A "trampoline" lashed between the beams might be closed mesh or open netting, depending on the size of object that you are prepared to lose forever when you drop it <hehe> Closed mesh is more comfortable for lolling on... Open netting more convenient for attachments.

Your kayak friends will be jealous as you slip by them reclining with pillows and drink holders
Yah, OK, you can give up some of the tramp space to solar panels too.
tks
Lock

 

[yanwin]

Wow. Learn more about it.

 

[joco]

hi kurt.

i am thinking the exact thing here. i actulay have 5 kayaks. that i use to fish frome...but would not mind to get my tarpon 140 mabe electric.

i got a 17 pound and a 30 pound motor here that i am thinking to put on my yak.

the prob is the batterie weight..i would love the smalles batterie but longest use frome it.mmmm

here are web site here andsome link that you see about this subject.


http://www.yakfisher.net/smffiles/index.php?topic=228.0

joco

 

[joco]

i like the way that companys make there kaayks..there doing a great job on them. well done.

here theres tarpon like mine..so i would like to make something like that.

http://www.bassyaks.com/welcome3.html

joco

 

[Jeremy Harris]

I wish I'd not spotted this thread.................

It's got me thinking about building yet another EV project (as if I don't have enough). I've got a test-bed RC outrunner motor and reduction drive I've been playing with that would make an ideal canoe powerplant. It's got me thinking about building a very light canoe (something like a Selway Fisher stitch & glue Prospector) and fitting an inboard power unit, rather like the old Victorian/Edwardian electric canoes that were used for leisurely cruising on some of our bigger rivers in times gone by.

Having done a few initial sums, it seems that you don't need much power to drive a light canoe - 70 watts or so seems a typical cruise power for around 4 to 5mph. Even a small lithium battery will provide a fair endurance at this sort of power level.

Jeremy

 

[paultrafalgar]

Dying to hear how you're going to "stitch and glue" around the drive shaft to make it waterproof! Should be stealthy though!

 

[urace4me2]

Native water craft sells two interesting kayaks with alternative drives. One is a recumbant pedal boat, the other is a electric drive. Both are based on their flexible "ultimate" boat. I pedaled one of their pedal boats at a kayak demo day at our local dealer. I race bicycles so I can produce a fair amount of watts. Reaching hull speed is easy. The next 1/2 mph is hard to produce. Typical displacement to planing transition problem. The aft section of the boat "squatted" as I increased power and the front end tried to "climb" onto a plane. Take a look at their website. They seem to have a good design for this. I have a 40lb thrust minkota I have used on a small light square stern canoe (actually pirogue). One deep cycle car sized battery lasted a couple hours. I used it at high speed most of the time. Only did it once, for a test.

 

[hulk]

I think I am sold on the idea of a removable twin hull.

The SPK1 is the coolest thing I have ever seen. I went to their website but they don't seem to have too much information on it. With 36lb of thrust, how fast can the kayak go and for how long? Do the solar panels charge the battery continuously? Where can I find more information about it? It really looks like a great bargain.