eTrike Conversion - as Mobility device! ... ?

[docnjoj]

"Studies" and their paraphrased results tend to bother me, because they rarely include all the necessary information to draw the conclusion given in the paraphrasing (or the included information is used selectively to create the illusion of that conclusion being "correct"). In that study, what other factors were also common to the replaced ones that werent' common to the non-replaced? Were they less active? Was the weight gain noted as permanent over lifetime, or only tracked for a short time after the surgery, when the patient would have necessarily been less active and thus more likely to gain weight if they continued the same diet they had when they were more active?

Lots of possible things could be causing the weight gain, other than the replacement itself--if so, most likely there is a solution for the weight gain while still getting the replacement if you really need it.

As usual you hit the nail on the head AW, but I think this was a legit one. I'll find the link and post it.
otherDoc

Here ya go. They really don't have absolute direct linkage, just the data and a possible reason.

http://news.yahoo.com/knee-replacement-linked-weight-gain-183557376.html

 

[amberwolf]

Interesting. Appears they "did their homework", though without actually seeing the data to draw my own conclusions, I can't know how thoroughly.

One thing they don't mention is pain, though.

At least for myself, when I am in more pain (usually from a long period of constantly changing weather, espeically high humidity and cold temperatures, whcih often triggers lots of joint pain, knees wrists ankles hands elbows hips back etc), I eat less. Specifically, I have less desire to eat, even when I'm hungry, and I am less hungry and less often. Even if I take somethign for the pain, like aspirin or ibuprofen, I still don't feel any different, hunger-wise.

Worse, once the pain subsides after the weather stabilizes or warms up, I am even hungrier and am so more often than before the pain bout. I have to watch for this, because I have managed to put on a lot fo weight really fast if I just let it happen (10lbs in a month!). And it takes forever to lose that weight, it seems like.

So it wouldn't surprise me if that is yet another factor in the problem.

 

[docnjoj]

Interesting. Appears they "did their homework", though without actually seeing the data to draw my own conclusions, I can't know how thoroughly.

One thing they don't mention is pain, though.

At least for myself, when I am in more pain (usually from a long period of constantly changing weather, espeically high humidity and cold temperatures, whcih often triggers lots of joint pain, knees wrists ankles hands elbows hips back etc), I eat less. Specifically, I have less desire to eat, even when I'm hungry, and I am less hungry and less often. Even if I take somethign for the pain, like aspirin or ibuprofen, I still don't feel any different, hunger-wise.

Worse, once the pain subsides after the weather stabilizes or warms up, I am even hungrier and am so more often than before the pain bout. I have to watch for this, because I have managed to put on a lot fo weight really fast if I just let it happen (10lbs in a month!). And it takes forever to lose that weight, it seems like.

So it wouldn't surprise me if that is yet another factor in the problem.

Pain is usually the one factor that "makes" a patient want the knee replaced. It is a comonality in almost al surgery for artificial knees. And it is serious surgery. None of this wimpy "arthroscopic" stuff. A good 5" medial incision running up and down the knee. I will walk with a cane or crutch before I go thru that, as long as I can ride my trike. Luckily mine is improving a bit. I do like the theory they put forth about the patient still using limited function even if the new knee can take more effort. Why do it if you are not gunna use it?
otherDoc

 

[amberwolf]

Probably because they just get so used to avoiding around the painful stuff that they just automatically don't do the things they used to.

Even now, after my right ankle's been basically healed up for what, a year or more? I still find myself sometimes avoiding putting weight on it in certain situations, even though there is no pain and it can easily support me--I only notice becuase it makes my worst knee (the left) have to take too much load during bending, and that's when it hurts most (as if it were grinding, and pulling, and a feeling I can't quite describe).

 

[DrkAngel]

Rather than a tricycle with electric assist, I am building the Schwinn Trike as an electric trike ... with pedal assist.

Yes, there is a difference!
"Electric assist" means that primary and continuous pedaling would be the norm, with occasional, or minimal, motor assist being applied.
"Pedal assist" indicates that the primary and constant force would be the motor, with occasional, or minimal assist being added.

As a mobility device with "pedal assist", the gear reduction motor should be solidly attached to the drive axle, which would provide substantial deceleration when throttle released.
As "electric assist" the gear reduction motor should be attached to the drive train through a freewheel. This would prevent the motor from restricting forward motion when not powered,

Since my primary reason for building an eTrike is as a mobility device I intend on building as an electric trike with pedal assist capability. As such it would have motor only capability, but also ... pedal assist for hills, greater speed, exercise etc, additionally .... powered reverse as a simple option.

 

[DrkAngel]

While my lack of aluminum welding experience is a detriment, my Schwinn "eTrike" build is proving simpler, and better, than I could have hoped!

While my preliminary plans involved sacrificing certain functions - capabilities, a few simple, yet ingenious, mods allow gear reduction motor acceleration-deceleration, while maintaining full brake and pedal function!

Method? Simpler is better!

Pics and plans coming soon.

Prototype will be road ready for Spring.

Bonuses -
Massive battery pack - homebuild from recycled cells
Hybridization! - Cheap, simple add-on module allowing 250+ mile range!

 

[DrkAngel]

60 Amp Drum Switch Forward/Off/Reverse Motor Control Rain Proof Reversing EA - $12.40
Great for eTrike, other small electric vehicle.


Click on Picture!

 

[DrkAngel]

60 Amp Drum Switch Forward/Off/Reverse Motor Control Rain Proof Reversing EA - $12.40
Great for eTrike, other small electric vehicle.


Click on Picture!

"6 Terminals: 2 Straight, 4 Cross

Contact Rating: 0 to 380V, 60A (3HP 120V or 6HP 240V Motors)"
Might be 3 phase 380V AC motor reversible capable?

Might be brushless DC reversible???

Need a brushless tech to get a sample and report.



Personally, I'm more brush savvy.

Interesting?
See other - eBike toolbox - bargains

 

[DrkAngel]

I decided to order a couple spares!
Might be able to retask as a 22.2V to 44.4V switch!

Lots of possibilities!

380V 60A capable!
Might be triple phase reversible! ... ?
Could be used to reverse brushless motor?


Wow ... betcha' I could retask some contacts and switch batteries from 2 - 24V banks to 1 - 48V bank. etc.

TURBO mode!

24V at 2x the amps for hills, old person speed etc. - to 48V level cruising speed.
10mph at 24V and 20mph (eBike legal limit) at 48V.

or ...

16mph @ 24V ... 30mph @ 48V ...

 

[DrkAngel]

Received Forward \ Reverse switch.
Switching is done through 5 contacts on right side.

Gold colored bars are removable contacts.

"Shifting" action is smooth and easy.
Contacts are substantial copper discs.
Reasonably weather-resistant
Quality is surprisingly good!

 

[DrkAngel]

Parallel to serial pack "shift".
2 - 24V 10Ah packs to 1 - 48V 10Ah pack ... with the flick of a switch.
See - Dual Voltage Rig!

 

[docnjoj]

As far as a simple differential goes, My wifes Sun USX has cambered rear axles with the pedal drive on only one wheel. The two axles are separated. She has a front hub motor but I can see how it would be fairly easy to power either the unpedaled axle or even the freewheel pedal one. It handles quite well. Not cheep but fine cornering and the regular Sun recumbent with OSS (handlebars) is much cheaper. They can be had for $300 used.
otherDoc

 

[DrkAngel]

As far as a simple differential goes, My wifes Sun USX has cambered rear axles with the pedal drive on only one wheel. The two axles are separated. She has a front hub motor but I can see how it would be fairly easy to power either the unpedaled axle or even the freewheel pedal one. It handles quite well. Not cheep but fine cornering and the regular Sun recumbent with OSS (handlebars) is much cheaper. They can be had for $300 used.
otherDoc

With separated rear axles, solidly attached to the wheels, you have an ideal opportunity for a 2 motor, high traction eBike.
Using Currie type gear reduction motors, each motor attached to an axle, will provide:
Posi-traction
Possible - Shifting between 24V and 48V, for high torque-traction and high speed
Choice of solid sprockets for deceleration - regen, or freewheels for max coasting - pedaling range ...
Gotta build me one!

Battery through the motors as serial or parallel.
or

Parallel to serial pack "shift".
2 - 24V 10Ah packs to 1 - 48V 10Ah pack ... with the flick of a switch.
See - Dual Voltage Rig!

 

[amberwolf]

Just a note regarding driving only one wheel: It will push the trike in the opposite direction, and force you to steer just a bit the other way, causing scrubbing on the front tire, wearing it faster. It also causes scrubbing on the undriven wheel, wearing it, too, but not as much as the front.

This is based on my own riding observations, and observations of tire wear on Delta Tripper (most recent post here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=716311#p716311 )

 

[MonLand]

Also found a great little toybox item! -
- $5 !!!
"Gear Box 6.5 to 1 reduction, #40-79 Jacobson, Self Propelled Lawn Mower transmission"
Rated for 7HP!!! ... Yeah ... got a few!

Quite an old post, but I'm hoping you tried to use those already. I did and ran into a challenge: it looks like the clutch system is not very strong and it slips if there is any kind of torque applied (in my case, I have a 250W motor attached to it and a decently heavy vehicle to move). I'm trying to figure out if I should get rid of the clutch (i.e. bolt it through) or if there is a modification that can be done that retains the clutch system but allow more torque to be applied.
Technically, having a torque-slipping clutch is better since it would allow for a safety/fuse system (i.e. avoid breaking something else in case vehicle is stuck). But I can't seem to take this gear box apart easily (clutch 'fork' is in the way, can't seem to get it out) and while they are still $5, I'd like to avoid the shipping fee breaking it!

 

[DrkAngel]

Also found a great little toybox item! -
- $5 !!!
"Gear Box 6.5 to 1 reduction, #40-79 Jacobson, Self Propelled Lawn Mower transmission"
Rated for 7HP!!! ... Yeah ... got a few!

Quite an old post, but I'm hoping you tried to use those already. I did and ran into a challenge: it looks like the clutch system is not very strong and it slips if there is any kind of torque applied (in my case, I have a 250W motor attached to it and a decently heavy vehicle to move). I'm trying to figure out if I should get rid of the clutch (i.e. bolt it through) or if there is a modification that can be done that retains the clutch system but allow more torque to be applied.
Technically, having a torque-slipping clutch is better since it would allow for a safety/fuse system (i.e. avoid breaking something else in case vehicle is stuck). But I can't seem to take this gear box apart easily (clutch 'fork' is in the way, can't seem to get it out) and while they are still $5, I'd like to avoid the shipping fee breaking it!

I bought a few and noticed a definite variance in quality.
Likely these were rejects?
Some work better-differently than others.

I never used mine ... too many other projects!

 

[MonLand]

I confirm that those reduction boxes can't take the torque... You have to modify them for sure. I opened two and JB-welded the inside. I actually broke one of the worm gears trying (I think?) to push the vehicle with the clutch engaged (since it's JB-welded, I can't do it the other way anymore). I'm taking another chance and order a few replacement, but had I known this before, I would not have gone that route for sure.

 

[DrkAngel]

I've been plagued by too many projects ...
Recycled 18650 builds, recycled lipo builds, re-gearings, mid-drive plans mixed in with cruising through the cool shaded woods etc.

Projects- in progress:
Recycled laptop Lipo fuse removal and testing
22.2V 41.6Ah recycled 18650 eZip pack
29.6V 31.2Ah recycled 18650 eZip pack
25.9V 25.92Ah auto balancing eZip pack using recycled laptop LiPo and circuit boards
7s-8s-9s (25.9V-29.6V-33.3V) 30.24Ah recycled Lipo test pack (multiple quick connect contacts)
Camp unit, CFL & incandescent lights, fan, radio etc - pulled 6V 3Ah SLA added 7.2V 17.28Ah LiPo
B&D 12V 1.2Ah NiCd to 11.1V 5.2Ah 18650 LiCo
B&D 14.4V 1.2Ah NiCd to 14.8V 5.2Ah 18650 LiCo
B&D 14.4V 1.2Ah NiCd to 14.8V 4.32Ah LiPo
B&D 18V 1.2Ah NiCd to 18.5V 4.32Ah LiPo

Well ... change of priorities.
Had a bad run-in with a curb ...
I'm gonna be shy 1 arm, (my better one), for a bit, (elbow messed up).

So. ETrike as a mobility device!
Either that or limp along ... on my road-rashed knee.

I plan on having a Schwinn Meridian electrified within the next few days.
It should be reasonably simple.
I have everything figured except for the motor mounting hardware.
Will probably run with wood and hose clamps to the aluminum frame ... till I find an aluminum welder.

I will document everything and might be extremely simple.
So stay tuned!

 

[DrkAngel]

Schwinn Meridian Trike $224 w/free shipping

Black Cherry only

Edit - Sold out - sorry!

 

[pickell007]

How did you attach that engine? Love to see answer.'

 

[DrkAngel]

Might have just figured my newest "best" way to mod the large trikes (Schwinn etc.) into electric assist mobility vehicles.
My1016z3 24V 350w gear reduction motor + spoke mount sprocket. (485w@33.3V ... 525w@36V etc.)
9 - 32 gearing provide a stable torquey 10mph.
Motor = [strike]$69[/strike] - $52
Sprocket kit = $18
24 - 36V controller = $12
Thumb throttle = $10 -15 (thumb throttle recommended due to Trike handling characteristics)
~ $100 ! ... (Battery, chain and mounting hardware extra).

Ideal item for the Schwinn Meridian Trike.
Apply to non pedal driven rear wheel for assist, better traction and motor supplied deceleration.
One for each rear wheel! ... for hills, loads and hefties?


MY1016z3 full specs & speculations

Kit for spoke mount sprocket - ≥ $6.95 delivered!

28 -56T 410 sprocket kits available.

Looks to be a nice project item.
MY1016z3, MY1018z or XYD-16, can use 9 - 15T fixed drive sprockets
With freewheel adapter, can use 12-24T freewheel sprockets for a great range of speed-torque applications.

Motor drive sprockets: 9, 11, 13, 15
Motor drive freewheels: 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24 +?
Spoke mount (9 hole) sprockets: 28, 31, 32, 36, 38, 40, 41, 44, 48, 56,

Larger sprockets available if you feel capable of drilling-machining.

Figured up a few possible drive ratios - 26" wheels:

See Revised speeds in later post
24V Unite gear reduction motors:
At 24V
[strike]9T - 28T = 11.2 mph
9T - 40T = 8 mph
9T - 56T = 5.6 mph[/strike]

At 36V
[strike]9T - 28T = 16.8 mph
9T - 40T = 12 mph
9T - 56T = 8.4 mph[/strike]

At 24V
[strike]13T - 28T = 16 mph
13T - 40T = 11.5 mph
13T - 56T = 8 mph[/strike]
At 36V
13T - 28T = 24 mph
13T - 40T = 17.25 mph
13T - 56T = 12 mph

At 24V
[strike]18T - 28T = 22.4 mph
18T - 40T = 16mph
18T - 56T = 11.2 mph[/strike]
At 36V
[strike]18T - 28T = 33.6 mph
18T - 40T = 24 mph
18T - 56T = 16.8 mph[/strike]

New Speed Chart

Note - relative speeds do not reflect wind resistance at higher speeds
MB requires 350w to sustain 20mph ... 1000w to sustain 30mph. Upright trike requiring notably more w.
Dual motors @ 36V should be ~30mph capable ... but suicidal on a high trike?

 

[docnjoj]

I look forward to seeing your mounts and system. I have always liked the MY series of brushed motors. Simple and powerful and with the MY16XX relatively quiet now.
otherDoc

 

[DrkAngel]

The My1016z3 still uses straight cut gears (apparently = still reversible), so "noise" might still be a factor.
But on a large trike, motor and battery placement below the axle encourages a protective housing that should deaden any sound nicely. ... ?

 

[DrkAngel]

Received 31T spoke mount sprocket.
Gaskets are very heavy duty. 1/4"+ with multiple cord layers.
Most of these sprockets are for #415 chain, guess I lucked out, under 1/8", perfect for #410 chain.
Looks to be a simple easy install.
Only point for concern is precision centering. Important for smooth operation!

Will post up install method w/pictures ...
Preliminary motor mount will likely be of wooden construction ... mounting to aluminum frame.

Building for 10mph capability as mobility device. Solid sprocket, no freewheel.
Reverse controller capable!

Am concerned about newbie old person freezing on a twist throttle, so will use a thumb throttle.

Only building to run feasibility test, project plans for better steel wheels and large Kevlar belted tires to be finished as a Winter project.

Motor freewheels available but in 13-14-15T freewheels will give 14-17mph capabilities ...
Larger rear sprockets available for limiting speed.

14T motor freewheel to 44T wheel sprocket retains ~10mph capability.

 

[dogman dan]

A low speed mobility trike is a good idea. or at least Jason thought so...

The key difference is the ability to pedal it, vs traditional power chairs. The rider can choose to get some exercise, however minimal. While I was sickest, I could pedal very little and would pedal some going out, then just throttle home. That ability to throttle home was crucial for me when I was that weak. But at the same time, the little bit of exercise was crucial for both my mental attitude, and physical recovery.