FLIGHT MH370, Missing JET

that is something i cannot answer. i am certain the pilot was trying to stretch it as far as possible but you are right that he would need to operate the controls and extend flaps to allow the plane to land softly. if the controls require electric power it would be hard once the engines had flamed out. maybe the turbine does produce enuff power to allow operation of the control surfaces after the engines flamed out. it seems like it would have to be designed with that in mind.

been focused on the dutch crane accident with the new video where you can see the point where the crane operator in the rear over rotates and you can hear all the guys yelling at him to stop before it shifts the load too far and out of control. you can see the one point right before the load shifts and makes that banging noise and then everything just follows along.
 
Hillhater said:
How do you make any kind of "controlled" or even "low impact" landing , if you have no power and hence no controls.?
Depends on the plane. Some have APUs that can generate power for controls, many/most large planes have a generator on a boom that extends out of the fuselage upon main engine power loss.

There've been a number of non-crashed total engine-loss events, some of which were able to restart the engines, some of which couldn't.

One of the most famous is probably the Gimli Glider, ran out of fuel and was still able to fly and land safely on a former airstrip being used at that moment as a dragstrip, IIRC. (I think the nosewheel didn't lock but other than that....).

Another large jet that landed without power had fuel but the engines flamed out and then were subsequently damaged durign attempted restart and shut off, but he was able to land safely on a NASA-owned levee (was going to ditch in canal but saw levee at last moment).


Another one flew thru a flock of birds that killed both engines, and he flew safely to a perfect water landing, and the avionics in it (airbus?) actually automatically helped him by pitching the plane to the correct angle for his speed, so even the avionics were still working. I can't remember where this one happened.


There are others I dont' recall the details of ATM.
 
amberwolf said:
Another one flew thru a flock of birds that killed both engines, and he flew safely to a perfect water landing, and the avionics in it (airbus?) actually automatically helped him by pitching the plane to the correct angle for his speed, so even the avionics were still working. I can't remember where this one happened.
I'm surprised you didn't remember the name of that one; it's the most famous save ever, and the movie people have finally decided on casting.
1827262.jpg

The Airbus 320 did deploy a RAT Ram Air Turbine to generate electrical power. "The aircraft also has an auxiliary power unit (APU), which can provide backup electrical power for the aircraft, including its electrically powered hydraulic pumps; and a ram air turbine (RAT), a type of wind turbine that can be deployed into the airstream to provide backup hydraulic pressure and electrical power at certain speeds.[25] Both the APU and the RAT were operating as the plane descended into the Hudson..."
 
It's an interesting story but a short one, so I suspect that film is going to have a lot of padding.
 
The Dutch official investigation concludes that it was a BUK missile that took down the MH370 flight.

That basically means it is almost 100 per cent certain it was the Russians that murdered everyone on board that plane and not rebel separatists which should surprise no one apart from the conspiracy nuts. The only remaining question is why did they do it?

There is strong evidence to suggest that Ukraine was flying fighter jets underneath passenger jets but who in their right mind would shoot at a passenger plane (apart from that piece of human excrement General Rogers)?
 
Almost certainly an accident IMO. That's not to say it wasn't a case of recklessly targeting known or suspect Ukrainian fighters knowing the proximity of commercial air traffic. I'm not sure if the BUK system can distinguish between them?

It's not surprising that Russia has vetoed a UN resolution to create an International tribunal to prosecute those responsible.
 
Joseph C. said:
The Dutch official investigation concludes that it was a BUK missile that took down the MH370 flight.

That basically means it is almost 100 per cent certain it was the Russians that murdered everyone on board that plane and not rebel separatists which should surprise no one apart from the conspiracy nuts. The only remaining question is why did they do it?

There is strong evidence to suggest that Ukraine was flying fighter jets underneath passenger jets but who in their right mind would shoot at a passenger plane (apart from that piece of human excrement General Rogers)?

Wrong flight # my friend. MH-17 is what was shot down by Russian missile. MH-370 is/was the flight that went missing and they recently confirmed a piece of flap that washed up on a tiny island in the South Pacific.
 
Ykick said:
Wrong flight # my friend. MH-17 is what was shot down by Russian missile. MH-370 is/was the flight that went missing and they recently confirmed a piece of flap that washed up on a tiny island in the South Pacific.

Got the flight numbers confused.
 
Punx0r said:
Almost certainly an accident IMO. That's not to say it wasn't a case of recklessly targeting known or suspect Ukrainian fighters knowing the proximity of commercial air traffic. I'm not sure if the BUK system can distinguish between them?

It's not surprising that Russia has vetoed a UN resolution to create an International tribunal to prosecute those responsible.

You're fully correct it was an accident in the technical sense of the word. Apparently a BUK system can only distinguish between a friend or a foe and the friends don't consist of civilian aircraft.

But that's not the point. It wasn't an accident in that Russia invaded another country. They deliberately transported the four sub-units that make up a complete BUK unit more than 500 kilometres as the crow flies from Kursk to Donetsk. They knew civilian aircraft were flying over Ukrainian airspace (more than 30 flights had already flown through before MH 17 was shot down that day).

These weren't amateurs that were operating the anti-aircraft system. These were an elite whom had spent years learning to operate this system. As far as I'm concerned everything was deliberate not accidental.

A target is spotted travelling at the same altitude that airliners fly through. But you can't tell the difference between a fighter plane and a civilian airplane. If you pull the trigger well that can hardly be classed as an accident.
 
Yeah I was talking to some guys at a pub a little while ago and there was this guy who couldn't of been more sure it was not the Russians who fired the missile and believed it was a Ukrainian fighter plane that shot down MH17.

When I asked him what he thought about the fact that the Russian rebels had claimed the the downing of the Ukrainian An-26 military cargo plane 3 days earlier over the exact same air space he went all quiet and decided he had to go.... fact is he didn't know shit, just made conclusions from basic headlines..
Then of course Russian media first proudly announced the downing of 'another An-26' until they realized they had shot down MH17.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://en.itar-tass.com/world/741164
Donetsk People’s Republic militia downs another Ukraine’s An-26 plane — eyewitnesses
World July 17, 2014, 20:01


I couldn't believe someone could be so sure about stuff when it appears he is getting his news in the form of headlines off the side of BigMac burger wrapping paper.

Like this googled web cache shows above, the Russians had been shooting down Ukrainian planes so frequently they were already posting news about their latest success before they even realized they had shot down a civil passenger plane.
Once they had realized this all their news posts and facebook/tweets saying 'this will teach the Ukrainians to fly into our air space' etc were hastily deleted but they can't delete whats stuck in google cache...

MH17 had been flying lower and slower then normal apparently to avoid bad weather and it must of looked just like another An-26 to the buk missile system.

Fact is Russia could not have been caught more red handed and its just a basic retard elimination test for people to fail to see that.
Here is a video of the official investigation in a super convenient easily absorbable video form.
[youtube]KDiLEyT9spI[/youtube]
 
TheBeastie said:
Yeah I was talking to some guys at a pub a little while ago and there was this guy who couldn't of been more sure it was not the Russians who fired the missile and believed it was a Ukrainian fighter plane that shot down MH17.

When I asked him what he thought about the fact that the Russian rebels had claimed the the downing of the Ukrainian An-26 military cargo plane 3 days earlier over the exact same air space he went all quiet and decided he had to go.... fact is he didn't know shit...
You sure stumped that guy! We're all proud of amazing debating skills. Maybe you should be part of the American presidential line up!
TheBeastie said:
he went all quiet and decided he had to go...
Actually, I ran into that guy and he explained his departure. He said when he realized it was a gay bar, he left.
 
http://www.aol.com/article/2016/03/...oeing-777-part-found-off-mozambique/21321457/ :?
An object that could be debris from a Boeing 777 has been found off Mozambique and is being examined by investigators searching for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, sources told NBC News.
Early photographic analysis of the object suggests it could have come from the doomed jet, which vanished almost exactly 2 years ago.
It was found on a sandbank in the Mozambique Channel -- the body of water between Mozambique in eastern Africa and Madagascar -- and in the same corner of the southern Indian Ocean where the only confirmed piece of debris, a flaperon, was found last July.
in Malaysia, Australia and the U.S. have looked at photographs of the latest object and sources say there is a good chance it derives from a Boeing 777.
Boeing engineers are looking at the photos, according to sources, but the company has declined to comment.
It was discovered by an American who has been blogging about the search for MH370.
The development comes days ahead of the second anniversary of the jet's disappearance en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014 with 239 people on board.
No trace has been found of Flight MH370 except for the single barnacle-encrusted flaperon that washed up on the eastern shore of Reunion, east of Madagascar, last July. French aviation experts verified it as part of aircraft 9M-MRO after more than one month of forensic analysis at a laboratory near Toulouse.
There have been false hopes over the course of the investigation: In January, aviation officials ruled that two objects recovered from Malaysia's east coast were not from the missing airliner.
One of them, a six-foot-long metal item found in the eastern state of Terengganu, was examined by officials from the transport ministry, the Department of Civil Aviation and Malaysia Airlines.
However, the sonar search operation has turned up a 19th-century shipwreck.
Almost three-quarters of internationally-agreed 46,000 square mile search zone has been covered so far in the hunt for the missing airliner -- an area of ocean floor larger than the state of South Carolina.
The operation is due to be completed by the middle of this year. The Joint Agency Coordination Center says that if no "credible new information" about the jet's location emerges, the search will end.
 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...-debris/ar-AAgEGTp?li=BBnb7Kz#image=AAgvXtj|1 :?
JOHANNESBURG (AP) — A South African teenager vacationing in Mozambique may have found part of a wing from missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370, which his family dismissed as "rubbish" and his mother nearly threw away, he said Friday.
On Dec. 30, Liam Lotter was strolling on a beach in southern Mozambique, near the resort town of Xai Xai, when he spotted a gray piece of debris washed up on the sand, he recalled. It had rivet holes along the edge and the number 676EB stamped on it, convincing him he had found a piece of an aircraft. So he dragged the piece back to his family's vacation home.
"It was so waterlogged at that time, it was quite heavy. I struggled to pick it up," he told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. The curved piece of debris is about 3.3 feet (one meter) long, and about half that length wide, his father Casper Lotter said.
His parents dismissed it as a "piece of rubbish" that was probably debris from a boat, with his uncle making fun of him for dragging it around, but the 18-year-old insisted on bringing it back to South Africa to research the fragment.
"He was adamant he wanted to bring it home because it had a number on it," said Casper Lotter, adding that his son is not an aviation enthusiast but was simply drawn to the piece of debris.
"It just grabbed him for some weird reason," the father said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.
Back home in Wartburg in KwaZulu-Natal province, the piece was stored with the family's angling gear and almost forgotten as Lotter focused on his final year in high school. His mother even tried to throw it out, he said.
The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 jet vanished with 239 people on board while flying from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing on March 8, 2014.
It was only when Lotter read about another piece of possible debris from the missing airliner also found in Mozambique, about 186 miles (300 kilometers) from where he had made his discovery, that he resumed his probe.
"I was very shocked — Mozambique, similar color, similar area," the teen said of the piece discovered by an American man. "He described it similarly to what I'm looking at right now."
Last week, Lotter's mother Candace contacted Australian aviation authorities and they said the number on the part indicates it may belong to a Boeing 777, according to Casper Lotter. Australian authorities contacted South African counterparts to have the part examined by experts.
The honeycomb structure indicates it is either the leading edge of a wing, or a horizontal stabilizer
"We have arranged for collection of the part, which will be sent to Australia as they are the ones appointed by Malaysia to identify parts found," Kabelo Ledwaba, spokesman South African Civil Aviation Authority, wrote in a text message to the AP.
Last month, Blaine Gibson, a Seattle lawyer and part-time adventurer, found what could be a piece of tail section from the missing Malaysian airlines flight. The piece Gibson found had "NO STEP" written on it.
The 58-year-old's search for the missing jet has taken him to beaches in the Maldives, Mauritius, Cambodia, Myanmar and the French island of Reunion, he told The Associated Press. Gibson also travelled to Malaysia to attend a commemorative ceremony held on Sunday by the families of passengers on board the airliner.
The South African teenager hopes his find will help the grieving families, and inspire others who may have found fragments of the missing plane to hand them over to authorities.
He said he would be pleased "just for them to know that we're finding evidence, finding out how it happened, where it happened, just to give them some closure."
 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...nded-joint-panel/ar-BBuEhnP?ocid=ansmsnnews11 :(
KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - The hunt for Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 will be suspended if the aircraft is not found in an area now being searched, Malaysia, China and Australia said in a statement on Friday.
The Boeing 777, with 239 aboard, disappeared in March 2014 while on a flight from the Malaysian capital, Kuala Lumpur, to Beijing.
Almost A$180 million ($135 million) has been spent since then on an underwater search spanning 120,000 square kilometers (46,332 square miles) in the southern Indian Ocean.
"In the absence of new credible evidence, Malaysia, Australia and China have collectively agreed to suspend the search upon completion of the 120,000 sq-km search," Malaysian transport minister Liow Tiong Lai told a news conference at which he read out the statement from him and his Chinese and Australian counterparts.
The families of those on board, most of whom were from China, have pressed hard for answers ever since the plane went missing, and they are likely to decry any suggestion the search will end.
Liow said the team was not "giving up on the search for MH370" even if the less than 10,000 square kilometers that remains to be searched did not come up with anything.
"Should credible new information emerge which can be used to identify the specific location of the aircraft, consideration will be given in determining next steps," the ministers said in the statement.
Investigators believe the plane was deliberately flown thousands of miles off course before crashing into the southern Indian Ocean off Australia.
Malaysian investigators said in 2015 there was nothing suspicious in the financial, medical or personal histories of pilots or crew.
Several pieces of aircraft wreckage have washed up on beaches in Africa and been positively identified as coming from MH370 but they shed little light on the mystery.
"While acknowledging the significance of the debris, ministers noted that to date, none of it had provided information that positively identified the precise location of the aircraft," the ministers said.
The search has lasted more than two years but has found no sign of the main wreckage.
Searchers at the Dutch company leading the underwater hunt for MH370 told Reuters they believed the plane may have glided down to the sea rather than dived, meaning they have been scouring the wrong patch of ocean.
That was the first time officials directly involved in the search have lent some support to contested theories that someone was in control during the flight's final moments.
The glide theory is not supported by the investigating agencies, which includes Boeing Co, France's Thales SA British satellite company Inmarsat PLC and officials from the United States, Britain and Australia.
Liow told the news conference there was not enough evidence to confirm a controlled ditching, and added that he was confident the search was in the right place.
He said all data and information collected from the flight, search and debris of MH370 would be released to the public.
"It is in a very big volume, so it will take some time," he said.
(Reporting by Rozanna Latiff; Writing by Praveen Menon and Siva Govindasamy; Editing by Clarence Fernandez, Robert Birsel)
 
A Dutch-led investigative team said Wednesday that the surface-to-air missile that downed a passenger jet over eastern Ukraine in 2014, killing all 298 people aboard, came from Russia and was fired from territory held by pro-Moscow separatists.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/dutch-probe-missile-brought-from-russia-downed-malaysia-airline-plane-over-ukraine/2016/09/28/05a9770c-84c5-11e6-b57d-dd49277af02f_story.html
 
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