TylerDurden
100 GW
The scotchlite is great. Wheredjya get it, how much $, etc.??
formal introduction
- Thread starter Lenk42602
- Start date
I like the reflective stuff.
Most of us are stuck using an off-the-shelf case. If you look hard, you might find one that fits the batteries and frame (and doesn't look too bad). I like the Pelican cases.
I remember reading about some guys that built their own oven to heat plastic sheets that were later vacuformed over a mold. Depending on the size (and your spouse), you might be able to use a kitchen oven. I think they used a vacuum cleaner to pull the vacuum. DIY plastic molding.
Most of us are stuck using an off-the-shelf case. If you look hard, you might find one that fits the batteries and frame (and doesn't look too bad). I like the Pelican cases.
I remember reading about some guys that built their own oven to heat plastic sheets that were later vacuformed over a mold. Depending on the size (and your spouse), you might be able to use a kitchen oven. I think they used a vacuum cleaner to pull the vacuum. DIY plastic molding.
TylerDurden
100 GW
diy vacuform:
http://www.halloweenfear.com/vacuumformintro.html
http://www.halloweenfear.com/vacuumformintro.html
Lenk42602
10 kW
TD,
The scotchlite relectve tape - 18" X 36" for 15 bucks.
Ebay Link:
http://stores.ebay.com/3M-REFLECTIVE-TAPE
The scotchlite relectve tape - 18" X 36" for 15 bucks.
Ebay Link:
http://stores.ebay.com/3M-REFLECTIVE-TAPE
Lenk42602
10 kW
I found this guy in Alaska, of all places.
http://www.wildfirecycles.com/fatbikes.html
Sent him an email about his full size frame pack as an alternative to a formed hard case. I have looked high and low for an existing case that has dimensions to fit my batteries - which is why there is an ammo box nestled in the frame of the blue bomber. However, as I intend to "show" this e bike to potential customers, the center triangle batt/controller compartment needs to have a clean look. .
I am going to strap the batt/controller onto a tray (modified rear rack cradled between seat tube and down tube with brackets that bolt into water bottle bolts) so what I am really looking for is just a lightweeght cover to seal it from the elements, and hide the guts from would be theives....
http://www.wildfirecycles.com/fatbikes.html
Sent him an email about his full size frame pack as an alternative to a formed hard case. I have looked high and low for an existing case that has dimensions to fit my batteries - which is why there is an ammo box nestled in the frame of the blue bomber. However, as I intend to "show" this e bike to potential customers, the center triangle batt/controller compartment needs to have a clean look. .
I am going to strap the batt/controller onto a tray (modified rear rack cradled between seat tube and down tube with brackets that bolt into water bottle bolts) so what I am really looking for is just a lightweeght cover to seal it from the elements, and hide the guts from would be theives....
Drunkskunk
100 GW
Fiberglass is remarkably easy to work with. you can form the shape want out of styrofoam. the green flower arangement foam is the easiest to use, but the 4X8 sheets of insulation foam from Homedepo will work as well. just glue a bunch of pieces together into a block a little bigger and thicker than you need, then sand it down to shape. This is were the green flower foam is the easiest, as it sands fast. electric sander makes the white foam go faster.
you can cut the fiberglass cloth into smaller pieced, or long strips, then dip them in Minwax and lay them over the foam like paper mache. Thinning the Minwax will help it dry faster. when you get it completly covered with a couple layers of fiberglass, sand it roughly smooth, then brush on a thick coat of epoxy. one more sanding to get it smooth, and you're done.
you can seperate it into 2 pieses with a hack saw, or just leave it as a single piece, and cut access holes were you need them. there's no real reason to remove all the foam unless you want to . just carve out your batery tray and wire gallys from the foam, and the foam will keep iot all in position and secure. when you get it fit the way you want, give the inside foam a coating of minwax, with some fiberglass strips layed into areas that might take higher stress, and you have a batter caase and cover in one.
If you realy want to get creative, give the thing a final cover of Carbonfiber cloth and epoxy.
you can cut the fiberglass cloth into smaller pieced, or long strips, then dip them in Minwax and lay them over the foam like paper mache. Thinning the Minwax will help it dry faster. when you get it completly covered with a couple layers of fiberglass, sand it roughly smooth, then brush on a thick coat of epoxy. one more sanding to get it smooth, and you're done.
you can seperate it into 2 pieses with a hack saw, or just leave it as a single piece, and cut access holes were you need them. there's no real reason to remove all the foam unless you want to . just carve out your batery tray and wire gallys from the foam, and the foam will keep iot all in position and secure. when you get it fit the way you want, give the inside foam a coating of minwax, with some fiberglass strips layed into areas that might take higher stress, and you have a batter caase and cover in one.
If you realy want to get creative, give the thing a final cover of Carbonfiber cloth and epoxy.
Lenk42602
10 kW
Hey all, decided to run all the brake/shifter cables, install grips, bar end caps, etc. Here's a few pics. At this point, I am waiting for my tires. When I get them, I will mount the rear wheel I am running, x5303 (these are just mock up wheels) and install the chain connecting the rear ss freewheel to front two chainrings (two speed)......
Half twist led throttle - screwed up order - did not want the led version, but I am sure the novelty will appeal to on many.... if i run anything more than 48volts, which it seems is going to be the case, the batt meter is not accurate. probably just cover it up....
grips are oury mtb. Those plastic grips that come with the throttles suck!bar end caps are from Brooklyn Machine Works. Had these things forever - they have been on two motorcycles and three of my mtbs..
Front chainrings are 50t/34t with a suntour xc expert thumb shifter - my two speed bike. Rear freewheel is a 16t
Here's a shot of the battery area - I figured out a super stealth way to mount the case - Mt Zefal Makes a cool litttle product called the "gizmo clamp" Which allow one to mount a water bottle where there are no braze ons. I will be using these slick little devices to mount the battery case to the frame rather than hose clamps...
Close up of a Gizmo Clamp on the seat tube
Another:
One more for the gipper:
Battery tray, case is next - but i still am undecided as to power. Battery pack tray and case dimensions will be defined by what I run with Leaning towards LiPo but a123 pack construction is still on my radar. Lipo can get me 72 v, 10Ah @ 13 pounds!!!!! batts and controller can be totally sealed in the case if I go with Lipo. Probably wont make a move until I return from Las Vegas. Have a three day work trip, leaving this sunday......
Later,
Len
Half twist led throttle - screwed up order - did not want the led version, but I am sure the novelty will appeal to on many.... if i run anything more than 48volts, which it seems is going to be the case, the batt meter is not accurate. probably just cover it up....
grips are oury mtb. Those plastic grips that come with the throttles suck!bar end caps are from Brooklyn Machine Works. Had these things forever - they have been on two motorcycles and three of my mtbs..
Front chainrings are 50t/34t with a suntour xc expert thumb shifter - my two speed bike. Rear freewheel is a 16t
Here's a shot of the battery area - I figured out a super stealth way to mount the case - Mt Zefal Makes a cool litttle product called the "gizmo clamp" Which allow one to mount a water bottle where there are no braze ons. I will be using these slick little devices to mount the battery case to the frame rather than hose clamps...
Close up of a Gizmo Clamp on the seat tube
Another:
One more for the gipper:
Battery tray, case is next - but i still am undecided as to power. Battery pack tray and case dimensions will be defined by what I run with Leaning towards LiPo but a123 pack construction is still on my radar. Lipo can get me 72 v, 10Ah @ 13 pounds!!!!! batts and controller can be totally sealed in the case if I go with Lipo. Probably wont make a move until I return from Las Vegas. Have a three day work trip, leaving this sunday......
Later,
Len
Lenk42602
10 kW
Update - bike is completely built up, just need to pick a battery pack and controller, then mount/modify to fit inside frame
everything has gone together very very well. Right now I am debating (2) 37v 10ah lipo packs from itselectric.ca wired in series, or a 48v 20ah lifepo4 pack from yesa. each choice will determine controller also.
Loving the planning and building of these machines!
everything has gone together very very well. Right now I am debating (2) 37v 10ah lipo packs from itselectric.ca wired in series, or a 48v 20ah lifepo4 pack from yesa. each choice will determine controller also.
Loving the planning and building of these machines!
Lenk42602
10 kW
Just received the battery packs for V 2.0, now officially being referred to as The Stealth Bike.
Anyways, here are some pics for "the panel's" review:
Appear to be put together well, + and - batt pack leads are 14 guage. Each pack is 37V, 10.5 Ah. Lithium polymer from itselectric.ca.... Fused at the power leads and also at the charger leads.
dimensions are 9.75" X 2.7"X 3.0" each... can't believe I am going to get 74 volts @ 10.5 Ah out of these tiny packs!
Also completed the mounting of the battery rack/tray. Here's a few pics:
Battery packs will be compression strapped down to rack/tray, looking like this without the outer cover:
Battery Case Cover will attach to rack/tray, and the seat and top frame tubes of the bike via Gizmo clamps. The controller will also be mounted inside the the cover, on the underside of the case along the top tube. Entire battery pack, controller and wiring totally enclosed in case.
Jake wanted everyone to know who the real mastermind is behind V 2.0...
Now that the battery packs are here, I can continue battery case fabrication, fitting and fine tuning everthing prior to the test run. I also need to put a harness together to run these two packs in series. Will probably do some testing on the rollers with the case open before I close it up and try it on the road.... more to come!
Anyways, here are some pics for "the panel's" review:
Appear to be put together well, + and - batt pack leads are 14 guage. Each pack is 37V, 10.5 Ah. Lithium polymer from itselectric.ca.... Fused at the power leads and also at the charger leads.
dimensions are 9.75" X 2.7"X 3.0" each... can't believe I am going to get 74 volts @ 10.5 Ah out of these tiny packs!
Also completed the mounting of the battery rack/tray. Here's a few pics:
Battery packs will be compression strapped down to rack/tray, looking like this without the outer cover:
Battery Case Cover will attach to rack/tray, and the seat and top frame tubes of the bike via Gizmo clamps. The controller will also be mounted inside the the cover, on the underside of the case along the top tube. Entire battery pack, controller and wiring totally enclosed in case.
Jake wanted everyone to know who the real mastermind is behind V 2.0...
Now that the battery packs are here, I can continue battery case fabrication, fitting and fine tuning everthing prior to the test run. I also need to put a harness together to run these two packs in series. Will probably do some testing on the rollers with the case open before I close it up and try it on the road.... more to come!
TylerDurden
100 GW
I hope Jake knows what a battery-balancer is for. 
If you are an avid R/C enthusiast ignore the following.
FYI: The folks with the most experience in LiCo/LiPo chemistry, charge their packs in a brick-surrounded area, with sand available to extinguish any flareup.
You might consider:
Read everything you can about LiCo "Thermal runaway". Check the batteries in your smoke detectors and install one right above your charging area.
Stay safe,
No Joke.
If you are an avid R/C enthusiast ignore the following.
FYI: The folks with the most experience in LiCo/LiPo chemistry, charge their packs in a brick-surrounded area, with sand available to extinguish any flareup.
You might consider:
Read everything you can about LiCo "Thermal runaway". Check the batteries in your smoke detectors and install one right above your charging area.
Stay safe,
No Joke.
lawsonuw
1 kW
I guess I'm blind, but what brand bike did you use for your V2.0 conversion? I'm slowly converting my old no suspension MTB to an e-bike. Planning on bottom bracket drive and a centralized battery mounting. It's not built yet, but I got to keep an eye out for better frames 
.
Marty
P.S. that reflector tape looks awsome I love how it's black during the day.
.Marty
P.S. that reflector tape looks awsome
I love how it's black during the day.
Lenk42602
10 kW
mid to late ninties GT LTS-5 full suspension. Yellow and blue pic is posted on page two - got it for 150 bucks complete on ebay. One of the original full suspension horst link designs, GT offered this bike in various frame materials and rear shock options, the cheapest beng the LT - 5, with an elastomer rear shock and chromoly frame composition . Back in the day some friends of mine rode the aluminum LTS - 1's - i remember some issues with stress cracking around the main frame pivots due to aluminumm composition. Never heard of any issues with steel versions. Obviously the rear supsension, aft of the seat post is what appeals. The only other frames I know of which allow maximum mounting space in the main triangle would be by rocky mountain, the older Giant Atx 990 fs frames, and the big daddy, the fuji diamond RC frame.
recumbent
100 kW
I'm amazed you can fit all that power and controler in the frame like that, nice work.
Love those "gizmo clamps" from Mt Zefal also.
Love those "gizmo clamps" from Mt Zefal also.
markcycle
10 kW
TylerDurden said:I hope Jake knows what a battery-balancer is for.
If you are an avid R/C enthusiast ignore the following.
FYI: The folks with the most experience in LiCo/LiPo chemistry, charge their packs in a brick-surrounded area, with sand available to extinguish any flareup.
You might consider:
Read everything you can about LiCo "Thermal runaway". Check the batteries in your smoke detectors and install one right above your charging area.
Stay safe,
No Joke.
The RC guys with there fast chargers and banged up batteries from crashes experience doesn't really relate to Ebikes directly. If you slow charge 1C rate or less and don't over volt the cells the safety profile is excellent.
I been using a 156 cell Li-ION cobalt 18650 cell for months over 2000 miles on the packs. My packs have redundant primary BMS systems and secondary battery supervisor circuit. That said I still monitor the charging but feel perfectly safe. I'm more worried about the wires in my walls catching on fire than my battery.
Mark
I have to agree with Tyler on this one.
Just because you have not personally had any problems with your 18650's, it's no reason not to promote due care or to dismiss the hazards .
If you drop the bike, or scrape those cells in any way.. expect to have a very bad day !!!!!
I would suggest a plastic box.. to pretect against conductive punctures.. and then metal to re-inforce the whole thing.
Play safe.. and have fun ! 8)
( Great looking bike btw !! )
Just because you have not personally had any problems with your 18650's, it's no reason not to promote due care or to dismiss the hazards .
If you drop the bike, or scrape those cells in any way.. expect to have a very bad day !!!!!
I would suggest a plastic box.. to pretect against conductive punctures.. and then metal to re-inforce the whole thing.
Play safe.. and have fun ! 8)
( Great looking bike btw !! )
Lenk42602
10 kW
Thanks everyone. BTW, I will be the first to admit I know very little (comparatively speaking ) about lipo battery compositions - different compounds, safety, volatility,etc. I do appreciate all input regarding these packs, how to handle them, what to watch out for, etc. But, then again that is why I have intentions of trying as many different battery types as I can, first hand. Don't want to end up a "bench racer"......
By the way, these are Li(Ni-Mn-Co)02.
Drunkskunk has a pair of these as well. Wonder what his experience has been so far?
By the way, these are Li(Ni-Mn-Co)02.
Drunkskunk has a pair of these as well. Wonder what his experience has been so far?
GGoodrum
1 MW
Well as one who came from the RC world, I think I can confirm that cells made from ANY Lithium Cobalt-based chemistry should be treated carefully when charging. The main problem is over-charging. This will cause cells to explode in pretty spectaular fireballs. In the early days, some popular chargers, like the AstroFlight AF-109, tried to automatically figure out how many cells were connected in series. If you had a pack that was pretty full, and you put it on the charger to top it off, the charger would sometimes think the pack had one more cell in series than it really had. In short order, the pack will literally explode. I had this happen to me twice. The first time it happened I had several packs in a pyrex dish, with the pack being charged on top. Luckily, I was charging these outside, in a patio area on concrete, because once the pack exploded it continued to burn and lit off the other four packs. It took 20 minutes to get the fire out. I tried dumping sand on it, using a fire extingusher and water, but it just wouldn't go out until all the cells had cooked. About 10 minutes into it, the pyrex dish exploded from the intense heat. BTW, the pack that blew was being charged at a 1/2C rate.
The only type of Lithium cells that I've seen that can tolerate overcharging without blowing up are the a123-M1s, which are LiFePO4-based.
-- Gary
The only type of Lithium cells that I've seen that can tolerate overcharging without blowing up are the a123-M1s, which are LiFePO4-based.
-- Gary
After I read what everyone was saying about the dangers of Li-Ion batteries, I stumbled upon this video on liveleak.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d70_1196342357
Its not the greatest video, but it does demonstrate the potential power of these things exploding. The battery thrown on the fire was just a cell phone battery.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d70_1196342357
Its not the greatest video, but it does demonstrate the potential power of these things exploding. The battery thrown on the fire was just a cell phone battery.
Another vid where a man is suspected to have died from a cel phone exploding on his chest. Nothing nasty, just a news report.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e05_1196370730
It would be wise for anyone using Li-Ion batteries to take special precautions to avoid a catastrophe. ie.. Children dying when your house burns down.
I'm planning on getting some Li-ion batteries, and with all these horror stories I'm thinking I should build a fire proof box for recharging.
Nothing nasty, just a news report. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e05_1196370730
It would be wise for anyone using Li-Ion batteries to take special precautions to avoid a catastrophe. ie.. Children dying when your house burns down.
I'm planning on getting some Li-ion batteries, and with all these horror stories I'm thinking I should build a fire proof box for recharging.
lawsonuw
1 kW
My personal favorite video on Lithium melt downs was put out by a LiFePO manufacturer. http://www.valence.com/technology/safety_video.html#
Anywho a cheap charge bunker design I've seen is to have a "bucket" made out of brick or a clay pot that's covered with a plastic bag full of sand. If a cell goes, the bag melts and drops the sand on it. Prolly won't put out the fire, but the fire won't be spreading far either.
my 2 cents
Marty
Anywho a cheap charge bunker design I've seen is to have a "bucket" made out of brick or a clay pot that's covered with a plastic bag full of sand. If a cell goes, the bag melts and drops the sand on it. Prolly won't put out the fire, but the fire won't be spreading far either.
my 2 cents
Marty
Ted_Z
1 W
I'm sure this is old news to most, but is worth repeating...
Physical damage to the cell jackets can cause issues (aka fire) with LiPo batteries by exposing the juicy parts of the battery to oxygen. Discharging at too fast or to too low of voltage can also cause failure.
In my experience, trying to pull too many amps from a pack (discharging above the "C" rate) is the biggest killer of cell. Manufacturers tend to inflate their discharge rates so be sure to take them with a grain of salt. The thin metal tabs coming from the cell "envelope" can overheat, compromising the seal.
For those 10.5ah packs, my gut feeling is no more larger than 25A, or 2.5C. But hey, that's still 1850W peak!
Physical damage to the cell jackets can cause issues (aka fire) with LiPo batteries by exposing the juicy parts of the battery to oxygen. Discharging at too fast or to too low of voltage can also cause failure.
In my experience, trying to pull too many amps from a pack (discharging above the "C" rate) is the biggest killer of cell. Manufacturers tend to inflate their discharge rates so be sure to take them with a grain of salt. The thin metal tabs coming from the cell "envelope" can overheat, compromising the seal.
For those 10.5ah packs, my gut feeling is no more larger than 25A, or 2.5C. But hey, that's still 1850W peak!
Lenk42602
10 kW
hey all,
just finished a short while ago with the battery case/mount system for V 2.0. I will post some pics of the battery and controller configuration inside case soon - but not tonight.... i have metal shavings and dust in my eyes...
here's a good pic that illustrates the carbon fiber...
..and another - blue glow is from the TV reflection on the glossy cf surface...
Here's one final shot - how about those clamps! Clean!
will be posting more photos soon!
Cheers,
len
just finished a short while ago with the battery case/mount system for V 2.0. I will post some pics of the battery and controller configuration inside case soon - but not tonight.... i have metal shavings and dust in my eyes...
here's a good pic that illustrates the carbon fiber...
..and another - blue glow is from the TV reflection on the glossy cf surface...
Here's one final shot - how about those clamps! Clean!
will be posting more photos soon!
Cheers,
len
Your bike looks great! I love how you got the batteries mounted. very clean finish. . I'm planning on using the same/similar motor and batteries. I'm very interested to see what kind of performance and distance your set-up gives you. Thanks for posting your bike!
. I'm planning on using the same/similar motor and batteries. I'm very interested to see what kind of performance and distance your set-up gives you. Thanks for posting your bike!
Yes, that's about as clean as they get. Very professional. No Duct Tape!
Is that real carbon fiber?
Is that real carbon fiber?
Lenk42602
10 kW
Thank you fellas. It has taken quite a while to get everything to fit. And patience.
The carbon fiber box is in fact a steel ammo can, just like the first bike, but I wrapped it with a carbon fiber adhesive to make it look a little more purdy. I will be taking some photos of the case open, with the batts and controller next.
Oh, and I almost forgot, the final touch will be this on each side of the battery box:
take care,
Len
The carbon fiber box is in fact a steel ammo can, just like the first bike, but I wrapped it with a carbon fiber adhesive to make it look a little more purdy. I will be taking some photos of the case open, with the batts and controller next.
Oh, and I almost forgot, the final touch will be this on each side of the battery box:
take care,
Len
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