GCinDC's Giant DH Comp

[dnmun]

dmun, why store hot water when your tankless will deliver what you need? Does the increased efficiency from low water heater flow rate offset the tank loss and the circulating pump energy loss?

my Taco pump uses about 35-40 watts, AC. i find that the tankless units cannot keep the water hot when running several sources at the same time so being able to pull hot water from the tank allows enuff hot water use before it runs down in temp. the tankless does cut in as soon as the tank has a draw and cools, but the major source of the hot water is from the water that is heated and stored already.

the reason is to keep the efficiency up above the 65-70% range of the normal tankless heaters. i am one of those people who do not believe in the evil hot water tank losing heat to the surroundings. the water heater is in my basement so the heat stays inside the house.

i am amazed that people will buy the heat pump type water heaters and install them inside the house. all the cold produced by that heat pump to heat the water has to be heated by the house furnace unless the water heater is outside.

in fact the installers should be telling their clients about that but one thing about people who make money off of you by selling you 'energy saving devices' is that they only tell you what they need to tell you to sell the unit for the highest price to you.

then there are the guys who tell you it is illegal or violates the codes, etc. these high school dropouts with no training at all in thermodynamics telling me, with a masters in physics, about how bad what i did is. the threat they will call the city inspectors on me.....mudderfukkers.

they are all just there to rip you off in some fashion. that is how i feel about pv. solar hot water provides more energy than pv panels but guess what people think of when they think of going solar? always pv panels. that is where the advertising is.

 

[GCinDC]

can you make money with solar hot water?

the economics of solar in dc are too good to pass up.

my system cost $33,000 but here are the incentives:
- DC GRANT: i was supposed to get a check from dc for $6,000 after install, but they're fooling around w/ grant money now, might just get $4,000.
- FED TAX CREDIT: when i file i get a tax credit of 30% install price, so $11,000 off 2014 taxes.
- LOWER ELECTRIC BILL: instead of $1,400/yr, will be more like $140/yr, so effective savings of $1,000/yr, over 25years will be at least 25,000 less cash out of pocket.
- SRECS: each MWhr my system generates for until sometime in 2017, i'll get a check for ~$470, but prob closer to $6,000/yr. for next two years, it's estimated SRECS will be worth $350/MWhr. this is not a savings. this is a 'check in the mail'. and for some reason, the value of SRECs in DC are very high:

if you were in Maryland (nearby state), you would get much less. here are the SREC values there over the last several years:

or PA:

for some reason, only these states have SREC markets (that i'm aware of), so this is a huge factor:

so i expect the system will have paid for itself in 3 years or less, unless it's really, really cloudy. after that, i will earn money, as well as save on power costs.

nice that it's better for the environment too i guess. :lol:

in other news, at noon, i got call from another dad from my son's soccer team, whom i chatted w/ the other day and learned he worked at a local bike shop. he asked me if i wanted two strommers that were brought in with warranty issues. strommer sent them new bikes as the issues were never resolved, but perhaps i can figure it out! good news is that one looks about right for my wife:

i just showed her the pic and her response with a lilting wisconsin accent: "oh, they're a bit ugly, huh?" LOL.

I'm curious how many kWh your 42 panels are putting out. My 13 275W panels are giving me an average of 18 kWh a day, which is about 2 or 3 more than I use.

Sep 22 was my biggest day, with 55.1kWhr

the sun doesn't clear the big oak down the street till about 10AM so i'm getting only 7hrs of production at this time of the year. summer will be another matter i expect, but we'll see how the winter goes first.

 

[dnmun]

when i built the solar house, my girlfriend took the entire credits for the passive solar and the active solar hot water. i was contractor and charged the full amount available for the charger and even set up a small company to be the architect and solar designer/installer. all the expense of the extra insulation in her house and the floor under the hydronic heated tile floor that was the passive solar collector. that was 5 tons of concrete on 10" of insulation. the hydronic is the solar backup.

but her hot water panels cost about $350 or so for 6 of them i bot used out of the want ads. this was before craigslist. 1984.

pumps and heat exchanger and controller and all of the polybutylene tubing for the hydronic was about $800-1000, and the 120 gallon storage tank was $405 as i recall. so it cost me about t$1800 for supplies and she got the full $7500 tax credit. and the $7500 for the passive solar too. the house faces due south and located on the hillside so it gained morning and noon sun with Shawnee peak in the middle 5 miles away across the valleys.

so assume it saved $40/mth in heating, 30 years, about $15k. same as the cost, but the house is comfortable in winter, which is a lot where it is located. 10 million dollar view anywhere else.

my consumption is so low there is no financial incentive to install solar. 3.4kWh/day.

 

[dbaker]

are the Stromers geared hubs?

 

[nicobie]

Gregg,

Wow! Mega kWh/day!

If your utility pays back retail price for your surplus, you should be getting about $1000 back each year.

 

[GCinDC]

@dbaker, not sure about stromer motors. too busy this weekend to play w/ em. see below.

@nic, won't get a check from the utility. not allowed to have system larger than i need, but told casually if over years i develop a massive credit, i could sue 'em for it.. :| in the meantime, the payback on SRECs should be enough.

still plenty to do, trim, railings, stairs, paint/stain, gutters, fixtures, etc, but it's getting there:

 

[litespeed]

Looks very nice.

Tom

 

[dnmun]

great work. you may be able to get around the railings if it is less than 36" above the ground. that is pretty standard language in the code for railings but it may be different there. maybe just on the steps up to the porch.

 

[broke]

Pm me if you want to sell a stormer or I might be able to get you a small discount on a new batt.

 

[GCinDC]

pm'd you, broke. let's chat.

meanwhile, if anyone is up and wants to watch my commute in the next couple minutes, here's a glympse: http://glympse.com/0CM1-6BVE

 

[dbaker]

What hardware does it use? A smartphone with app?

 

[Allex]

glympse is free to download to Iphone and Android.

 

[GCinDC]

What hardware does it use? A smartphone with app?

hardware? lol. you still getting by with a dumbphone? your son too? he can't possibly survive on a dumbphone at his age...

yep, i've got an old samsung galaxy s android smartphone. after watching troy's trip, i downloaded the free app. can turn on anytime i want. great way to find your friends at burning man.

 

[dbaker]

Sam has an iphone 5. I use a BlackBerry but not to full potential . If I convince him to download this app I could track his movements...

 

[GCinDC]

ps. did you watch? seems like one person did. lol.

anyway, i lost power in the tunnel under 14th street. very weird situation that's been happening, always at high speed, WOT, i lose power, but the display is still active, ebraking still works, but when i turn the throttle, there's a light stuttering in the motor. but i know what it is, my circuit breaker has tripped. it's just switched to the off position.

and if i try to turn it on, it won't stick. it takes about 15 - 30 seconds before it will stick, and then i'm back and running again. very odd.

here's the breaker i'm using:

i'm thinking the contacts are fried, since i've actually been using it w/o the precharge resistor. the adaptto is still pulling 60A, the max, so it's not like it's increased resistance much. i'm dying to take it apart and see the contacts, because even tho it's rated 300A, i think that's only at 12V, and there's a lot more arcing that happens at 80V.

and i do have an 80V DC breaker to replace it with - can't find the link just now, but recommended somewhere on ES...

 

[GCinDC]

Sam has an iphone 5. I use a BlackBerry but not to full potential . If I convince him to download this app I could track his movements...

can't you just trust him? lol. better apps than glympse for that.. glympses appear to be time limited, so the one i sent this am, i set for 25min. but maybe that's what you want. i don't know. i'm not looking forward to the teens, i can tell you. and to think if my 'rents could track me when i was a teen, OMG. i was sneaking out every weekend night!

 

[dbaker]

I do trust him. Of course he thinks he knows all Don't think I could get him to do Glimpse. I do remember following Troy and noting Glimpses were not always available. I did follow your last 4 minutes and did see you appear to stop and make a small circle.

 

[dbaker]

for your breaker does it feel hot? Increased contact resistance should present heat

 

[GCinDC]

contacts:

replaced w/ this and it's a much better fit in the pack:

 

[nicobie]

I've tried about everything, and there is just no way to run over 60v without using a pre-charge switch. I just fried another 100v 80A $60 DC contactor. I always use the pre charge switch but you won't believe how many times somebody sees the switch and as they ask, "What's this for?" they switch the main switch on and weld the contacts together. There is only so many times you can fix/file them before they become worthless and look like yours.

I need to build one of those solid state switches. I wish somebody was building them.

 

[Allex]

I have had my apartment breaker for almost 3000miles now. Works perfectly.
But then...I almost never turn it on and off. maybe once a week.
And yeah, no precharge either, why complicate?

BTW Greg, Do you have a Charge Coil now?

 

[GCinDC]

i left the adaptto plugged in for at least 5 weeks straight, without unplugging it. that'll help preserve the contacts!

but yeah, nic, i'm inclined to agree. back to precharge. nice to know i don't absolutely need it, but will eventually degrade..

yes, allex, i got the coil! thanks! now i need to read the manual to figure out how to wire it (and the 48V eaton psu). really wishing i hadn't switched all the adaptto connectors to 4mm bullets.. :?

going to put your photo here for inspiration. so clean:

and the diag:

doesn't look to bad.

 

[Allex]

Thanks
Those bullet plugs are a nightmare to remove and to bad that they are only a one time build unlike xt60/xt90
Here is how I do, tuck in the charge wire to one of the phase plugs
The white plug is 12AWG cable the blue one are 10AWG. The white one handle 20 Amps just fine, barely warm.

 

[GCinDC]

 

[Allex]

Holy shit, time to burn some motors I guess?
You've got the big coil, the one who gets this will probably have a big battery...