GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

[LightningRods]

Thanks, Denisesewa. Tomorrow is pretty much the last day for the USPS to be able to get the GNG headed here before Christmas. If it doesn't happen by Christmas it will happen soon. I still have to get my battery pack sorted before I could roll it stock. I'm excited about spending January designing adjustable sheets, sorting my battery pack and possibly upgrading controller, pulleys/sprockets/bottom bracket- everything besides the motor.

 

[melodious]

After looking at previous email responses from GNG, I found my tracking number. My kit is in NYC! 8)

 

[phaseshift]

Does anyone know if mistertao.com is a good site? I found the 450 brushless motor for $157 and the dual brushed 450 for the same price. I'm wondering which would be better. I don't care about the noise level and plan on riding a lot in the sand. Any suggestions?

Link to vendor:
http://www.mistertao.com/taobao-vendor/%E5%8F%8C%E6%98%A5%E7%A7%91%E6%8A%80/

 

[LightningRods]

Does anyone know if mistertao.com is a good site? I found the 450 brushless motor for $157 and the dual brushed 450 for the same price. I'm wondering which would be better. I don't care about the noise level and plan on riding a lot in the sand. Any suggestions?

Link to vendor:
http://www.mistertao.com/taobao-vendor/%E5%8F%8C%E6%98%A5%E7%A7%91%E6%8A%80/

Hi Phase-
I'm about to take delivery from Mr. Tao on the same $157 deal you found for the '450W' (actually 1,000W). They seem honest. The deal is that they are buyers, making a purchase for you off of Taobao, the Chinese eBay. They are somewhat at the mercy of the seller in terms of getting the goods. It took about two and a half weeks from the time I made the purchase until they shipped. If you want the 'Express' (less slow) shipping it's $136. People who chose the slow shipping from China often got mangled goods.
It was covered some time back on this thread that the dual is probably not worth it. This GNG motor is pretty robust and will take bursts of over 2kW. The dual is heavier, bulkier, less efficient in terms of it's power consumption, and probably not needed unless you really want to do 40+ mph for sustained periods. Then you can add 50 lbs and $1,200 of batteries to the equation.
So I'd say go ahead and use Mr. Tao but don't be in a hurry. It will add a week to your delivery in the best of circumstances.

 

[phaseshift]

Hey thanks for the reply, I have been wondering on the dual/single motor setup for a while now and I guess I'm gonna just go with the 450 brushless. It looks like a pretty good deal. I've been trying to read all 85+ pages but still not quite done yet Now to find a cheap battery or have one built....

 

[Denisesewa]

So after my trail ride two days ago ( Video on my build thread) on some pretty tough terrain my wattmeter showed a peak of 38 amps, I have the controller programmed for 30 amps, so block time is allowing the spikes?
Anyway, the motor was cool to the touch after 10 minutes hard riding, since my "off the charger voltage is 58 volts and amps spike to 38 this is at least momentarily 2750 watts right? thats an impressive 3.67 horsepower at least mathmatically which means the power to wieght ratio ( with rider) exceeds a hondo TL125 trials bike, even at nominal figures its still 1624 watts and 2.2 hp.
In the real world my bike feels like a much lighter more responsive version of my old TL125.
This GNG kit keeps impressing me ( even if the above math is wrong).
So we purchase an advertised 450 watt motor kit, replace a few parts , re-engeneer a couple things and get a mini monster 1500 to 2000 watt+ kit for cheap, what a deal !!
Cant recommend this enough for anyone willing to tinker a bit. I keep trying to think of a build project for another one just for thr fun of building it.

 

[t3sla]

highly odd question here, but can anyone make recommendation of a hobby RC ESC for the GNG.

thinking about repurposing it in my skateboard as the motor is gone and I want a throttle controller similar to RC

 

[teklektik]

So after my trail ride two days ago ( Video on my build thread) on some pretty tough terrain my wattmeter showed a peak of 38 amps, I have the controller programmed for 30 amps, so block time is allowing the spikes?

Exactly. The purpose of block time is to completely disable the controller limiting to improve off-the-line pickup for DD motors which can use the initial power boost to get rolling.

It can be an effective strategy to reduce the block time to 0.1sec (as low as possible in the Lyen MK2 programmer app) for gear motors like BMC/MAC which have gears/clutches that can be damaged by excessive torque and high power engagements. These configurations have small motors with gearing to give higher initial torque than DD motors so the initial block time boost is not as important. Your motor/jackshaft assembly shares many of the same characteristics as a geared hub and I believe you would find a similar block time adjustment will substantially reduce the start-up strain on your components.

 

[Denisesewa]

So after my trail ride two days ago ( Video on my build thread) on some pretty tough terrain my wattmeter showed a peak of 38 amps, I have the controller programmed for 30 amps, so block time is allowing the spikes?

Exactly. The purpose of block time is to completely disable the controller limiting to improve off-the-line pickup for DD motors which can use the initial power boost to get rolling.

It can be an effective strategy to reduce the block time to 0.1sec (as low as possible in the Lyen MK2 programmer app) for gear motors like BMC/MAC which have gears/clutches that can be damaged by excessive torque and high power engagements. These configurations have small motors with gearing to give higher initial torque than DD motors so the initial block time boost is not as important. Your motor/jackshaft assembly shares many of the same characteristics as a geared hub and I believe you would find a similar block time adjustment will substantially reduce the start-up strain on your components.

Cool, Thank you for that, this is info I really appreciate, clear , to the point with the "why" and "how" explained. Time to experiment !!

 

[Cyclebutt]

At 170 total miles of testing, the belt is beginning to show visible signs of wear. Frayed inside edge of belt obvious. Poor factory alignment seems likely source of problem. Kit also seems to require a chain guide for proper function on most bikes, internal geared hub or single speed may help. These tests were all completed with a 48V pack, no mods, bone stock.

I really wanted to like this system but at $400, no way. GNG could have at least included a matching left hand grip and a switched brake lever. Mid Drive is the future, just not this mid drive. Maybe the Gen 2 will fair better.

 

[Denisesewa]

Does anyone know if mistertao.com is a good site? I found the 450 brushless motor for $157 and the dual brushed 450 for the same price. I'm wondering which would be better. I don't care about the noise level and plan on riding a lot in the sand. Any suggestions?

Link to vendor:
http://www.mistertao.com/taobao-vendor/%E5%8F%8C%E6%98%A5%E7%A7%91%E6%8A%80/

Hi Phase-
I'm about to take delivery from Mr. Tao on the same $157 deal you found for the '450W' (actually 1,000W). They seem honest. The deal is that they are buyers, making a purchase for you off of Taobao, the Chinese eBay. They are somewhat at the mercy of the seller in terms of getting the goods. It took about two and a half weeks from the time I made the purchase until they shipped. If you want the 'Express' (less slow) shipping it's $136. People who chose the slow shipping from China often got mangled goods.
It was covered some time back on this thread that the dual is probably not worth it. This GNG motor is pretty robust and will take bursts of over 2kW. The dual is heavier, bulkier, less efficient in terms of it's power consumption, and probably not needed unless you really want to do 40+ mph for sustained periods. Then you can add 50 lbs and $1,200 of batteries to the equation.
So I'd say go ahead and use Mr. Tao but don't be in a hurry. It will add a week to your delivery in the best of circumstances.

In looking at the Tao site I see the brushless kit for the $157, their shipping calculator puts the total at $200 ( $157 + 27.33 shipping and 14.86 commision) through EMS and $216 through China post but you are saying the shipping is $136 which is about what I paid for the first one for shipping on the GNG ebay store, I'm confused ? I'd like to get another kit if I can get it for around $200.

 

[Denisesewa]

At 170 total miles of testing, the belt is beginning to show visible signs of wear. Frayed inside edge of belt obvious. Poor factory alignment seems likely source of problem. Kit also seems to require a chain guide for proper function on most bikes, internal geared hub or single speed may help. These tests were all completed with a 48V pack, no mods, bone stock.

I really wanted to like this system but at $400, no way. GNG could have at least included a matching left hand grip and a switched brake lever. Mid Drive is the future, just not this mid drive. Maybe the Gen 2 will fair better.

Like I said, " If you like to tinker" I rode mine stock for about 2 minutes before going to chain drive primary, there is alot to dislike in the stock setup but for little money and some effort it can be a really good setup IMO.

 

[christerljung]

Hello GNG-lovers. This is a little trick for the throttle-range. It´s calibrated with Lyen 12FET/infineon controller, but the concept can be used on other setups. Just change the values on the resistors. Using variable 100ohms could be great for perfection.
If your throttle doesn´t respond, the resistorvalues need to be lower.
url for full image:
http://www.labutb.falun.se/trangemod.jpg

 

[christerljung]

This is another option for buying it:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Electric-bicycle-parts-48V-450W-Brushless-Suits-for-20-26-inch-variable-speed-bicycle-and-16/601157_690215712.html

 

[phaseshift]

Oh wow, way better option christerljung! I have been keeping an eye on this motor and plan to order it soon, nice to know it can be here in 10 days at a reasonable price.

 

[Denisesewa]

Hello GNG-lovers. This is a little trick for the throttle-range. It´s calibrated with Lyen 12FET/infineon controller, but the concept can be used on other setups. Just change the values on the resistors. Using variable 100ohms could be great for perfection.
If your throttle doesen´t respond, the resistorvalues need to be lower.
url for full image:
https://gofiww.blu.livefilestore.co...SJeiaevzHmgb6jk3wDxiC5vw/Trangemod.jpg?psid=1

Hmm, I'm not seeing the image and when I go to the link I end up at a Microsoft sign in page?

 

[Sirbevalot]

Hey guys,

After watching this thread for months and watching all the videos, i've finally purchased my kit from the gng website. i paid for the express post and hope to see it next week. I imediately got an email from the company asking for my phone number. they sent pics of my gng kit packaged up with my details on it, which is nice.

I already have my batterries (Zippy 6s 5 AH x 4). This will make a 12s 10 AH set up. I will house these in a back pack to keep the weight off the bike and keep it stealth.

My Bike is a Specialised Hardrock. Its a hardtail but i won't be doing any extreme jumps. 8)

Stay tuned.........

 

[LightningRods]

In looking at the Tao site I see the brushless kit for the $157, their shipping calculator puts the total at $200 ( $157 + 27.33 shipping and 14.86 commision) through EMS and $216 through China post but you are saying the shipping is $136 which is about what I paid for the first one for shipping on the GNG ebay store, I'm confused ? I'd like to get another kit if I can get it for around $200.

The Mr. Tao site gives a false impression of shipping costs at first because they have the weight listed too low. First they want you to fund your account for the $157 purchase. Then once they have the goods in hand they calculate the actual shipping cost and commission and ask you for a second payment. If you use EMS the second payment will be around $136.

Despite using EMS 'Express" it took 14 days for me to get my kit. The styrofoam packing pulverized into styro snow. Every sheet was bent, both tensioners were mangled, the belt guard was jammed against the driven belt pulley and my pedal cranks were badly chewed up from banging around loose against the motor and sheets.

I'm planning on recreating the sheets and eliminating at least the belt tensioner so it's no big deal for me. A consumer wanting a ready to use kit would have been seriously bummed.

 

[LightningRods]

Hello GNG-lovers. This is a little trick for the throttle-range. It´s calibrated with Lyen 12FET/infineon controller, but the concept can be used on other setups. Just change the values on the resistors. Using variable 100ohms could be great for perfection.
If your throttle doesn´t respond, the resistorvalues need to be lower.

Thanks for posting this diagram, Christer! Pictures and diagrams really help everyone, especially visual learners like me.

You've been invaluable in making a silk purse e-bike kit out of this sow's ear GNG. They should pay you a R&D/Sales commission!

 

[Denisesewa]

In looking at the Tao site I see the brushless kit for the $157, their shipping calculator puts the total at $200 ( $157 + 27.33 shipping and 14.86 commision) through EMS and $216 through China post but you are saying the shipping is $136 which is about what I paid for the first one for shipping on the GNG ebay store, I'm confused ? I'd like to get another kit if I can get it for around $200.

The Mr. Tao site gives a false impression of shipping costs at first because they have the weight listed too low. First they want you to fund your account for the $157 purchase. Then once they have the goods in hand they calculate the actual shipping cost and commission and ask you for a second payment. If you use EMS the second payment will be around $136.

Despite using EMS 'Express" it took 14 days for me to get my kit. The styrofoam packing pulverized into styro snow. Every sheet was bent, both tensioners were mangled, the belt guard was jammed against the driven belt pulley and my pedal cranks were badly chewed up from banging around loose against the motor and sheets.

I'm planning on recreating the sheets and eliminating at least the belt tensioner so it's no big deal for me. A consumer wanting a ready to use kit would have been seriously bummed.

Mine looked just like that recieved from the ebay seller, just got lucky I think as nothing was bent (much)

 

[parajared]

Mine shipped out in a snow blizzard plastic puff mess too. After seeing the condition of my box when it came I suspect the delivery guys partook in a lively game of gng package football before delivering.

I have run mine at 2500 watts continuous and it overheats fairly fast; 2000 watts = moderately fast overheating; and 1500 watts is sustainable if you keep the motor in it's efficient range. Tested on 12s, 18s, and 24s.

I almost have mine converted to chain. I think I will even post a little how-to video once it's done.

Also Denisesewa was right about needing a 1/2 link for the #25 mod. The chain is too loose without it.

 

[Rassy]

christerljung wrote:

Hello GNG-lovers. This is a little trick for the throttle-range. It´s calibrated with Lyen 12FET/infineon controller, but the concept can be used on other setups. Just change the values on the resistors. Using variable 100ohms could be great for perfection.
If your throttle doesn´t respond, the resistorvalues need to be lower.

I recently got some 5k adjustable resistors from dnmun and based on a post by Fecther installed one on the throttle ground wire. I expected to go to about 300 ohms, but the motor starts to crawl at just over 25 ohms. A pretty small increment relative to the 5k ohm pot.

Anyway, it did help tame the twitchy throttle. Now I wonder if I should try putting another adjustable resistor on the throttle positive wire. What differences in throttle response should I expect when adding some resistence on the positive wire and perhaps also increasing the resistence on the ground wire?

I'll probably experiment using the 5k olm resistors I now have, but it would probably be easier to make fine adjustments if using a 100 olm pot. Any ideas on the best resistence to apply when doing the two wires would be appreciated. Is there any reason the resistence on the positive wire should be larger than the resistence on the negative wire?

Thanks,

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I went from 16S LiPo to 24 S and I turned the throttle down in the software to get the required top speed. It made a big difference to using the 100-120% throttle setting. It's not nearly as twitchy

Might be worth trying ?

 

[teklektik]

... Now I wonder if I should try putting another adjustable resistor on the throttle positive wire. What differences in throttle response should I expect when adding some resistence on the positive wire and perhaps also increasing the resistence on the ground wire?

What you are doing here is to match the output voltage range of the throttle with the input voltage range of the controller (which is generally a smaller range than that of the throttle and located between the throttle min/max voltages). This minimizes the 'dead zones' to obtain increased usable range of motion.

• Introducing resistance to the ground lead introduces a voltage offset to raise the throttle output range so the minimum roughly coincides with the minimum of the controller input range. This minimizes the lower 'dead zone'. Adding too much resistance raises it further so it appears the throttle is ON a bit causing motor creep at zero throttle.
• Introducing resistance to the positive lead lowers the maximum throttle output voltage - again to make the max throttle output (WOT) roughly coincide with the max of the controller input range. This minimizes the upper 'dead zone'. Adding too much resistance will make WOT develop a voltage less than the controller max input so the bike will never get max power.

This gimmick is best done with trimpots and adjusted with the bike on a stand. A bit of fiddling may be in order since the adjustments interact.

Is there any reason the resistence on the positive wire should be larger than the resistence on the negative wire?

They are unrelated so anything goes...

 

[LightningRods]

Solid gold info. Thanks....