GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400



This 14t to 19t 3d printed adapter seems to have removed my belt skipping issues (@14s) for now. Just tried doing a few power wheelies in the bedroom and no teeth skipped! Pulley looks ok so far, no damage or visible stress.

Will take it to the basement tomorrow to work it a little harder.

cfxHyxN.png


For the primary chain conversion, to avoid cutting up my belt pulley and having to center & drill the sprocket, it looks like I can screw one of the freewheel adapters from http://www.electricscooterparts.com/freewheelclutches.html onto the original 35mm threaded adapter, and then attach one of the "Freewheel Clutch Compatible Sprockets", right?
 
bee said:
This 14t to 19t 3d printed adapter seems to have removed my belt skipping issues (@14s) for now.

cfxHyxN.png

Nicely done, Bee. For the quick and easy pulley fix this looks to be it. It will be interesting to see how the 3D print material holds up with use.
 
if someone would like to send me a 3d printed pulley I will be more than willing to make casts in resin for peeps to test for the cost of postage ( I have 3 different types of resin I can use/try )
 
gwhy! said:
if someone would like to send me a 3d printed pulley I will be more than willing to make casts in resin for peeps to test for the cost of postage ( I have 3 different types of resin I can use/try )

It looks like Bee is on top of the 3D printing. I'll leave you guys to it unless you need me for some reason. I'd love to have a set myself.
 
gwhy! said:
if someone would like to send me a 3d printed pulley I will be more than willing to make casts in resin for peeps to test for the cost of postage ( I have 3 different types of resin I can use/try )
im in for a set to try ,, give me a price if you make some ,, more people to test and we all run different volts :D :D :D
 
I'm certainly happy to pay postage to Aus, potentially the CAD/Printing files would be beneficial for local users with 3D printers (I know of one member in Aus who has one).
 
cost will be just postage, but I will need a printed pulley to cast from, If bee wants to send me one or two ( maybe a 19t and 20t ) of the smaller pulleys ( I will split the postage- PM me if interested ) I will make a mould and cast a few for people to try this will be a very good thing to try as it will be very usefull info to get some pulleys out in different composites just to see which holds up the best.
 
Thats a point ... Ok has anyone got a 3d printer in the uk that can print a couple of pulleys out for me to cast :D
 
The resin idea is great too! Even something like JB Weld with aluminium dust for strength would be good.

Also - WOOT - this thread just made 100 pages! :shock:
 
the ABS plastic pulleys I'm printing need to be heated up and hammered on for a snug fit, I'm assuming you'd want a looser fitting pulley to make a cast from?

Tossed the 19t, it was giving me tensioning problems on the secondary drive. Testing out a 20t printed pulley.
 
bee said:
the ABS plastic pulleys I'm printing need to be heated up and hammered on for a snug fit, I'm assuming you'd want a looser fitting pulley to make a cast from?

Tossed the 19t, it was giving me tensioning problems on the secondary drive. Testing out a 20t printed pulley.

Yes there isnt much give in the resin that I use, but I could play around with the ratios to make it have a little give but ideally it will need to be a nice snug push fit as it can always be jb 'ed to the original pulley .
 
The oversize pulleys arrived from Electric Scooter Parts today. The silver 95T is 149mm to the outside of the teeth, 160mm to the outside of the flange. The black nylon 120T is 189mm to the outside of the teeth, 195mm to the outside of the flange. Both accept the 34mm center hub that the stock GNG pulley comes with.

pulleys_top.jpg


The finish on the 95T is comparable to the stock GNG 80T: fair. The black nylon 120T has a nice smooth finish on the teeth.

pulleys_3-4.jpg


The 95T was advertised as being compatible with either 15mm or 20mm belts. It is not. The drum is 16mm wide. The 120T is compatible with 20mm. The drum is 22.5mm wide.

pulleys_side.jpg


I was getting pretty enthusiastic about the big 120T. Nice finish, wide enough for 20mm belt, huge reduction bump (50% over stock). Unfortunately it has .08" (2mm) of lateral runout. The freewheel makes it possible to hold it down and spin it on a flat surface.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heGML3jbhsY&feature=youtu.be

The 95T looks to be a simple and worthwhile swap. It's almost identical to the 80T except for lowering the reduction by nearly 20%. The 120T needs some work. Since the freewheel plate bolts in place it's possible that the center of the vinyl section could be turned or shimmed. Lateral runout is preferable to axial runout. The latter causes fluctuations in belt tension. The axial runout appears to be less than .02".

EDIT: Another simple fix for the 120T would be to index where the lateral runout is and use some emery paper to remove metal from the back of the freewheel plate on that side. The pulley itself appears to be completely flat and true.
 
That wobble on the big 120 tooth is a bummer, some sand paper and time could probably fix that though. It seems like running a wider belt on there after ditching the idler with your sheets would be a good way to make up for the lack of tooth engagement, that and a slip on for the drive cog.

the easy swap with the cast 95t would be nice too, but would you still be able to slide an adapter on the drive cog and still have the right reduction ratio?
 
gestalt said:
That wobble on the big 120 tooth is a bummer, some sand paper and time could probably fix that though. It seems like running a wider belt on there after ditching the idler with your sheets would be a good way to make up for the lack of tooth engagement, that and a slip on for the drive cog.

the easy swap with the cast 95t would be nice too, but would you still be able to slide an adapter on the drive cog and still have the right reduction ratio?

If I can get that 120T trued up I'd like to run it with a 20mm wide 18T steel sleeve. 120/18 yields 6.66:1. Better than the stock 80/14s 5.7:1.

The most important thing is to replace the stock 14T. The low tooth count and sharp teeth make it a belt killer. The 95T can at least offset some of the lost reduction.
 
LightningRods said:
gestalt said:
That wobble on the big 120 tooth is a bummer, some sand paper and time could probably fix that though. It seems like running a wider belt on there after ditching the idler with your sheets would be a good way to make up for the lack of tooth engagement, that and a slip on for the drive cog.

the easy swap with the cast 95t would be nice too, but would you still be able to slide an adapter on the drive cog and still have the right reduction ratio?

If I can get that 120T trued up I'd like to run it with a 20mm wide 18T steel sleeve. 120/18 yields 6.66:1. Better than the stock 80/14s 5.7:1.

The most important thing is to replace the stock 14T. The low tooth count and sharp teeth make it a belt killer. The 95T can at least offset some of the lost reduction.
See if the shop will send you a new 120T, those things are injection molded and lazy removal from the mold or improper cooling could cause some warping.

The 20T 3d printed pulley works great, and is a perfect fit with the stock belt, stock 80T pulley, and secondary reduction without the half-link or idler. I tweaked the tolerances a bit so it no longer requires filing/heating to fit, just some hammering. I think the 19T/20T 3d printed pulleys would be worth trying with the 120T pulley to get some of that torque back.

The 18T still skipped for me at 15mm & 14s, there was just too much wobble in my 80T pulley to get good tension and teeth engagement on the belt without an idler. The 19T seemed to work ok too but I only tested it in my apartment because I couldn't get the secondary chain tight with that combo.

I received a few questions about the 3d printer so enjoy this video that doesn't explain anything:
[youtube]p4iKvgCZYPw[/youtube]

And here's the openscad code if anyone wants mess around with it:

Code:
//GNG up-sprocket 0.1 by kow, based on:

// Parametric Pulley with multiple belt profiles
// by droftarts January 2012

// Based on pulleys by:
// http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11256 by me!
// https://github.com/prusajr/PrusaMendel by Josef Prusa
// http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3104 by GilesBathgate
// http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2079 by nophead

// dxf tooth data from http://oem.cadregister.com/asp/PPOW_Entry.asp?company=915217&elementID=07807803/METRIC/URETH/WV0025/F
// pulley diameter checked and modelled from data at http://www.sdp-si.com/D265/HTML/D265T016.html

//GNG consts
inner_teeth = 14;
outer_teeth = 20;

// tuneable constants
retainer_ht = 1.5;	// height of retainer flange over pulley, standard = 1.5
idler_ht = 5.5;		// height of idler flange over pulley, standard = 1.5

pulley_t_ht = 21.0;	// length of toothed part of pulley, standard = 12
pulley_b_ht = 8;		// pulley base height, standard = 8. Set to same as idler_ht if you want an idler but no pulley.
pulley_b_dia = 20;	// pulley base diameter, standard = 20


//	********************************
//	** Scaling tooth for good fit **
//	********************************
/*	To improve fit of belt to pulley, set the following constant. Decrease or increase by 0.1mm at a time. We are modelling the *BELT* tooth here, not the tooth on the pulley. Increasing the number will *decrease* the pulley tooth size. Increasing the tooth width will also scale proportionately the tooth depth, to maintain the shape of the tooth, and increase how far into the pulley the tooth is indented. Can be negative */

additional_tooth_width_inner = -0.2; //mm
additional_tooth_width_outer = 0.2; //mm

//	If you need more tooth depth than this provides, adjust the following constant. However, this will cause the shape of the tooth to change.

additional_tooth_depth = 0; //mm

// The following set the pulley diameter for a given number of teeth


HTD_5mm_pulley_dia1 = tooth_spacing (5,0.5715,inner_teeth);
HTD_5mm_pulley_dia2 = tooth_spacing (5,0.5715,outer_teeth);

// The following calls the pulley creation part, and passes the pulley diameter and tooth width to that module

//belt
//translate ([0,15, 13])
//	cube([40,1,15]);

difference()
{	 
	pulley ( "HTD 5mm" , HTD_5mm_pulley_dia2 , 2.199 , 3.781,outer_teeth,0,1,additional_tooth_width_outer);
translate ([0,0, -1])
	pulley ( "HTD 5mm" , HTD_5mm_pulley_dia1 , 2.199 , 3.781,inner_teeth,0,0,additional_tooth_width_inner);
	translate ([0,0, pulley_b_ht + pulley_t_ht + retainer_ht -10])
		cylinder(h = 25, r1 = inner_teeth - 6, r2 = inner_teeth +4);
	difference()
	 {	 
		cylinder(h = 15, r1 = 30, r2 = 30);
		cylinder(h = 15, r1 = 17, r2 = 17);
	}
}

// Functions

function tooth_spacing(tooth_pitch,pitch_line_offset,teeth)
	= (2*((teeth*tooth_pitch)/(3.14159265*2)-pitch_line_offset)) ;

// Main Module

module pulley( belt_type , pulley_OD , tooth_depth , tooth_width,teeth,retainer,idler,additional_tooth_width)
{
	echo (str("Belt type = ",belt_type,"; Number of teeth = ",teeth,"; Pulley Outside Diameter = ",pulley_OD,"mm "));
	tooth_distance_from_centre = sqrt( pow(pulley_OD/2,2) - pow((tooth_width+additional_tooth_width)/2,2));
	tooth_width_scale = (tooth_width + additional_tooth_width ) / tooth_width;
	tooth_depth_scale = ((tooth_depth + additional_tooth_depth ) / tooth_depth) ;


//	************************************************************************
//	*** uncomment the following line if pulley is wider than puller base ***
//	************************************************************************

//	translate ([0,0, pulley_b_ht + pulley_t_ht + retainer_ht ]) rotate ([0,180,0])

	difference()
	 {	 
		union()
		{
			//base
	
	
		difference()
		{
			//shaft - diameter is outside diameter of pulley
			
			translate([0,0,pulley_b_ht]) 
			rotate ([0,0,360/(teeth*4)]) 
			cylinder(r=pulley_OD/2,h=pulley_t_ht, $fn=teeth*4);
	
			//teeth - cut out of shaft
		
			for(i=[1:teeth]) 
			rotate([0,0,i*(360/teeth)])
			translate([0,-tooth_distance_from_centre,pulley_b_ht -1]) 
			scale ([ tooth_width_scale , tooth_depth_scale , 1 ]) 
			{
				HTD_5mm();
			}

		}
			
		//belt retainer / idler
		if ( retainer > 0 ) {translate ([0,0, pulley_b_ht + pulley_t_ht ]) 
		rotate_extrude($fn=teeth*4)  
		polygon([[0,0],[pulley_OD/2,0],[pulley_OD/2 + retainer_ht , retainer_ht],[0 , retainer_ht],[0,0]]);}
		
		if ( idler > 0 ) {translate ([0,0, pulley_b_ht - idler_ht +5]) 
		rotate_extrude($fn=teeth*4)  
		polygon([[0,0],[pulley_OD/2 + idler_ht,0],[pulley_OD/2 , idler_ht],[0 , idler_ht],[0,0]]);}
	
		}
	}  
}


// Tooth profile modules

module HTD_5mm()
{
	linear_extrude(height=pulley_t_ht+2) polygon([[-1.89036,-0.75],[-1.89036,0],[-1.741168,0.02669],[-1.61387,0.100806],[-1.518984,0.21342],[-1.467026,0.3556],[-1.427162,0.960967],[-1.398568,1.089602],[-1.359437,1.213531],[-1.310296,1.332296],[-1.251672,1.445441],[-1.184092,1.552509],[-1.108081,1.653042],[-1.024167,1.746585],[-0.932877,1.832681],[-0.834736,1.910872],[-0.730271,1.980701],[-0.62001,2.041713],[-0.504478,2.09345],[-0.384202,2.135455],[-0.259708,2.167271],[-0.131524,2.188443],[-0.000176,2.198511],[0.131296,2.188504],[0.259588,2.167387],[0.384174,2.135616],[0.504527,2.093648],[0.620123,2.04194],[0.730433,1.980949],[0.834934,1.911132],[0.933097,1.832945],[1.024398,1.746846],[1.108311,1.653291],[1.184308,1.552736],[1.251865,1.445639],[1.310455,1.332457],[1.359552,1.213647],[1.39863,1.089664],[1.427162,0.960967],[1.467026,0.3556],[1.518984,0.21342],[1.61387,0.100806],[1.741168,0.02669],[1.89036,0],[1.89036,-0.75]]);
}

LightningRods, PM me your address if you want a few of my pulleys to try with those larger ones you got.
 
LightningRods said:
I did some calcs on different pulley sizes. This is how they fit with my longer than stock adjustable upper sheets. The 120T/20T combo fits but there's no room for flanges. I think a longer set is needed for that combination.

PulleySizeChart.jpg

Does this look correct?
3OGqBKq.jpg


http://shop.polybelt.com/630-5m-15-Rubber-Timing-Belt-126-Tooth-B630-5M-15BNG.htm

or for 19T/120T http://shop.polybelt.com/625-5m-15-Rubber-Timing-Belt-125-Tooth-B625-5M-15BNG.htm

Looks like you bought the last 120T cog though!
 
bee said:
LightningRods said:
I did some calcs on different pulley sizes. This is how they fit with my longer than stock adjustable upper sheets. The 120T/20T combo fits but there's no room for flanges. I think a longer set is needed for that combination.

Does this look correct?
3OGqBKq.jpg


http://shop.polybelt.com/630-5m-15-Rubber-Timing-Belt-126-Tooth-B630-5M-15BNG.htm

Unfortunately. I never planned for a 120T sprocket when I originally designed the upper sheets. I thought 3/4" additional length would be enough. I'm considering a new design that will make room for the 120T.

I'm IMing you my address. Thanks for your great work and your generosity, Bee.
 
bee said:
Looks like you bought the last 120T cog though!

out_of_stock.jpg


Bummer! The source Miles found was out of stock as well. I guess I will be tweaking this one rather than returning it...
 
Bee and LightningRods great work!!
Exactly what answers we are looking for. Very impressive. I wish I had more to contribute than a compliment to this tread but thought you and LightningRods should know your contributions are well appreciated. This is my new favorite thread.
 
Most likely the metal threaded ring center of the large plastic pulley is heat staked into the molded part at a secondary operation. Other common way would be to sonic weld, or spin weld it in. It can simply be glued also. From the pictures, in my experience it would most likely not be molded in. Any good mold shop manager most likely could tell by just by looking at it.

If heat staked, I think you can get it perfect if you can fixture and hold it square while repressing it while hot and allow to cool fixtured. Check it for bulges/ ridges of plastic where the plastic pulley meets the metal hub ring also for clues and for proper shoulder seating.
 
Back
Top