LightningRods
1 MW
The nylon 120T is held together with four 5mm allen bolts. I'm going to try rotating the inner steel collar and see if the overall runout changes. Sometimes combined variances aggravate each other.
GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
- Start date
bee
100 W
hey LightningRods can you confirm that the freewheel is a standard one and not "LEFT HAND" ?
I'm ordering one from http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63_114
It should allow me to mount the 65T & 80T sprocket from: http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63_89
Which should make Denisesewa's chain conversion much easier to do.
I'm ordering one from http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63_114
It should allow me to mount the 65T & 80T sprocket from: http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=63_89
Which should make Denisesewa's chain conversion much easier to do.
Denisesewa
100 W
Its definately right hand threads, I had mine apart and tried several freewheels on it, some brands screwed on easily some didnt screw on so easily, I assume this is due to manufacturing tolerances.bee said:
BTW, the reason I didnt go with an adapter like that is so I could eliminate runout during the mounting process
LightningRods
1 MW
bee said:
The only LEFT HAND - RIGHT HAND orientation would be the center threads. The threads on the freewheel that came with the 120T are the same as the GNG adaptor, RIGHT HAND. The direction of the freewheeling can be reversed by flipping the freewheel over. There is 5mm of freeewheel case on either side of the center mount flange. It's symmetrical on the Z-axis.
gestalt
10 kW
The adjustable sheets work great on my kit! And I finally figured out how to implement my idea to have the controller mounted with the motor and be covered up. this way I can kill two birds with one stone, shorten the wires between the controller and motor and keeping the mud and grime off of the components while still allowing air to flow. I guess that's three birds!
I can't wait till the the BB sheets are ready to get rid of that ghetto rigged chain tensioner. Then put in the cover for the drive side chain from the motor to keep those pant legs our of there. Don't know exactly what I'm going to to about the belt side yet, it's just to pretty to cover up!
I can't wait till the the BB sheets are ready to get rid of that ghetto rigged chain tensioner. Then put in the cover for the drive side chain from the motor to keep those pant legs our of there. Don't know exactly what I'm going to to about the belt side yet, it's just to pretty to cover up!
speedmd
10 MW
Seeing what you have, it is most likely the freewheel flange that has the run out and just greatly amplified with the large wheel attached. If the molded knock out dents are relatively even and no sink evident in the molded surface near the mounts, I would bet on it. I think I see a crowbar in your future.
LightningRods
1 MW
gestalt said:
Looking great Gestalt! The new BB sheets will be ready today and will start shipping tomorrow. I'm pretty certain you won't miss your ghetto chain tensioner once it's gone. :wink:
gestalt
10 kW
LightningRods said:The nylon 120T is held together with four 5mm allen bolts. I'm going to try rotating the inner steel collar and see if the overall runout changes. Sometimes combined variances aggravate each other.
I really see no reason to have that freewheel in the center of the pulley unless you are looking to use a smaller chain cog on the drive side, and I think the issue of increasing the pedal drag makes that a no for most people.
I wonder if there exists some kind of flanged thread stock adapter that would replace the freewheel, or if one could be made very easily. The 20mm belt will be good I think for people who want to up the voltage a bit with the lightningrods mods. But I'm going to have to save that for the next build if I'm going to have to use new adjustable jackshaft sheets to make it work. Probably just going to go with the 95 tooth aluminum upgrade and hopefully some kind of slip on for the drive cog.
Yo BEE!
holla at ya boy with one of those printed cogs, name your price.
What I Want
I want to build an e-bike for fun and have been reading this an other threads on endlesss sphere for a while. A GNG mid drive seems to suit my requirements best? Tried a front hub motor a couple of years ago but did not like the balance. Therefore mid drive preferable to hub motor.
Torque and range is more important than speed. 25 mph is fine.
I live in a hilly area so the ability to climb hills. I would preferably like a range of in the order of 25 miles with some pedalling until I'm knackered.( I am approx. 240 lbs !! past my sell by date and not as fit as I should be.)
I will use a 26" cromo steel good quality touring frame. No suspension. Have used the bike without motor for a few years and like it.
So, is 48v better than 36v because more power at less amps, minimising heat loss/ overheating motor. But 36v will give better cadence !
If 48v, what is the best way of reducing the gearing to get to a cycling cadence of around 80 on a 48v motor? Indeed is this reliably possible?
I propose to use Lightning Rods adjustable plates if these are still available and do away with the tensioner?. Reliability is a worry. I don' t really want to be frequently changing chains or belts, but then just cruising around country roads and tracks may not put as much stress on the kit and benefit reliability. But would I be better going for Gen 2 motor or a larger motor from Cyclone?
Any advice on these proposals beforeI start would be really welcome.
DaveP
I want to build an e-bike for fun and have been reading this an other threads on endlesss sphere for a while. A GNG mid drive seems to suit my requirements best? Tried a front hub motor a couple of years ago but did not like the balance. Therefore mid drive preferable to hub motor.
Torque and range is more important than speed. 25 mph is fine.
I live in a hilly area so the ability to climb hills. I would preferably like a range of in the order of 25 miles with some pedalling until I'm knackered.( I am approx. 240 lbs !! past my sell by date and not as fit as I should be.)
I will use a 26" cromo steel good quality touring frame. No suspension. Have used the bike without motor for a few years and like it.
So, is 48v better than 36v because more power at less amps, minimising heat loss/ overheating motor. But 36v will give better cadence !
If 48v, what is the best way of reducing the gearing to get to a cycling cadence of around 80 on a 48v motor? Indeed is this reliably possible?
I propose to use Lightning Rods adjustable plates if these are still available and do away with the tensioner?. Reliability is a worry. I don' t really want to be frequently changing chains or belts, but then just cruising around country roads and tracks may not put as much stress on the kit and benefit reliability. But would I be better going for Gen 2 motor or a larger motor from Cyclone?
Any advice on these proposals beforeI start would be really welcome.
DaveP
richard purchon
10 mW
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2012
- Messages
- 29
you need a bafang 500w bpm rear hub motor. you arent going to get 25 mile range with a gng crank drive unles youve got 30 amphr battery and that will weigh a ton.
richard
richard
LightningRods
1 MW
DaveP said:
The adjustable BB sheets (for the secondary chain) will be finished today and I'll have a fresh run of jackshaft sheets (for the primary belt or chain) on Thursday. The adjustment slides built into the sheets eliminates the tensioners.
Your big decision on the GNG is whether to run chain or belt primary drive. The stock belt and pulley set up is very poor. Chain and sprocket is relatively easy to do, costs less and will handle as much power as the GNG can produce. Belt drive is quieter, cleaner, and needs no lubrication. Several of us are working on combinations of pulleys that will solve the GNG belt reliability problems once and for all. Bee is working on a slip on 3D printed drive sprocket. I have an inquiry in at my laser shop for one cut out of 25mm thick steel. We will solve for the belt drive. Then you can have whichever you prefer.
I wanted 48V on my kit because the 48V has the option of running at higher rpm and making more power. You can still take it easy with the throttle and stretch the battery if you want to.
Rassy
1 MW
Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. I don't know where the above poster gets his data, but you should be able to get your 25 miles from a 48V 15AH battery if you are willing to pedal along. A LiFePO4 would only weigh about 17 pounds.
I put together a GNG on a 29er and it climbs up to 20% grade with no problem. Perhaps even steeper, but I don't have a place to test that. I'm giving the bike to my Sister because I'm also past my expiration date and just don't care to ride two wheelers anymore.
I would recommend 48V. You can pedal along with it just fine unless you have the throttle pegged all the time. Even then you will easily be able to help some on the steeper hills.
You already mentioned LR's plates, plus there are many other improvements you can make. The only real improvement I made was adding resisters to the throttle wires to tame the quirky throttle. Made a world of difference and for "mild" use I don't plan any other changes.
Good luck with your build.
Edit: Oh yeah, I'm currently using a 48V 20AH LiNiCoMn battery that only weighs 14 pounds, but it's not as good as a slightly heavier LiFePO4.
I put together a GNG on a 29er and it climbs up to 20% grade with no problem. Perhaps even steeper, but I don't have a place to test that. I'm giving the bike to my Sister because I'm also past my expiration date and just don't care to ride two wheelers anymore.
I would recommend 48V. You can pedal along with it just fine unless you have the throttle pegged all the time. Even then you will easily be able to help some on the steeper hills.
You already mentioned LR's plates, plus there are many other improvements you can make. The only real improvement I made was adding resisters to the throttle wires to tame the quirky throttle. Made a world of difference and for "mild" use I don't plan any other changes.
Good luck with your build.
Edit: Oh yeah, I'm currently using a 48V 20AH LiNiCoMn battery that only weighs 14 pounds, but it's not as good as a slightly heavier LiFePO4.
flyinmonkie
10 kW
lightningrods, the run out could be in the flanged freewheel itself. Not the flange, but the bearings and the differences in the inside and outside bearing races. Those cheap ones are terrible for that. If you are going to use a freewheel as the final drive, then you could come up with a solid replacement for the one in the pulley. If you want to keep the freewheel there, then maybe swapping it out with a flanged eno, or a flanged ACS could be the way to go.
Clay
Clay
speedmd
10 MW
Standard track cog should work.
speedmd
10 MW
Just buffed out the little stock 14 tooth belt pulley wheel with a small scotch bright wheel. The sharp top edges are gone now. Feels like butter. 8)
Rassy
1 MW
Hey speedmd, that sounds great. Can you post size, coarsness, or some pictures of the pad that you used. I think I'll do that before I send my bike off to my Sister.
speedmd
10 MW
Just a soft mounted wheel and lightly buff. I had one. Most any will do as long as you go slowly. High speed (2500 RPM) drill will do it in reverse direction if your air tool / dremel will not spin backwards to get the back side of the teeth.
LightningRods
1 MW
speedmd said:
Just a soft mounted wheel and lightly buff. I had one. Most any will do as long as you go slowly. High speed (2500 RPM) drill will do it in reverse direction if your air tool / dremel will not spin backwards to get the back side of the teeth.
Nice! Getting the razor blade edges off of those pulley teeth is Job One. Everyone with the stock belt drive should do at least this much to give the belt a chance.
skyungjae
10 kW
What technique did you use? Apply a little throttle and hold the brush in one spot or did you manually move the brush around the spline?
speedmd
10 MW
No battery yet, trying to decide between 12s4p of 20c, 25c or 30c lipo packs. The 30c will most likely be best long term. Hopefully I get them in the next few weeks.
I just brush up against the wheel and did a few teeth near each other, rotated by hand and repeated with the 90. A few minutes of Freestyle deburring. 8)
With the motor running, you can use the scotch brite (back) side of a old sponge if that is all you have. They don't call them deburring wheels for nothing! I have them on buffers from 6 to 12 inches, but the little mounted ones I find most useful and use often when dealing with assembled machines/ parts.
skyungjae
10 kW
I guess I'll take care of it when my belt snaps. It's holding up pretty well at low power levels and easing into higher ones on steep climbs.
bee
100 W
Took the bike out for another 5800mah of 14s today and didn't skip a single tooth with the 20t sleeve adapter. Plenty of power to hop up curbs and screw around in the city, and accelerates faster than the average driver what a fun kit!
Only problem is that I had to shift the gears up to pedal, the 1:4 primary reduction doesn't lower the RPM enough to let the motor pedal assist unless you're very light on the throttle. I'll definitely need a larger pulley on the output end of the belt to balance out the pedal ratio, or maybe a bigger sprocket for the inner chainring at the pedals?
After that I added some solder to the shunt, and now the belt skipping problem is back (20:80t is a much harsher ratio for the input pulley) so I'll definitely need to increase the primary drive ratio. The shunt mod gives this kit a fantastic amount of punch, and even with my awful 1:4 primary ratio it still wants to flip my 200lb butt backwards off the bike unless I'm leaning forward, I can't wait to try it on the mountain!
what a fun kit!Only problem is that I had to shift the gears up to pedal, the 1:4 primary reduction doesn't lower the RPM enough to let the motor pedal assist unless you're very light on the throttle. I'll definitely need a larger pulley on the output end of the belt to balance out the pedal ratio, or maybe a bigger sprocket for the inner chainring at the pedals?
After that I added some solder to the shunt, and now the belt skipping problem is back (20:80t is a much harsher ratio for the input pulley) so I'll definitely need to increase the primary drive ratio. The shunt mod gives this kit a fantastic amount of punch, and even with my awful 1:4 primary ratio it still wants to flip my 200lb butt backwards off the bike unless I'm leaning forward, I can't wait to try it on the mountain!
heathyoung
100 kW
Stop teasing and start printing these for sale
Why not increase the reduction with the larger slip-on pulley you printed back on page 89(?) or so? You could make a 20mm wide one to match the 20mm wide 20tooth one...
Pair the slip-on covers with a 20mm belt and I reckon you would have a killer combo for anyone who has the adjustable plates.
Maybe post the source (print files? not sure what the standard format is) for the 20T and 100T in 15 and 20mm widths for local printing?
I saw a program of sorts you posted - is this used to generate these files? I might try hitting up a local to see if some of these can get printed.
Why not increase the reduction with the larger slip-on pulley you printed back on page 89(?) or so? You could make a 20mm wide one to match the 20mm wide 20tooth one...
Pair the slip-on covers with a 20mm belt and I reckon you would have a killer combo for anyone who has the adjustable plates.
Maybe post the source (print files? not sure what the standard format is) for the 20T and 100T in 15 and 20mm widths for local printing?
I saw a program of sorts you posted - is this used to generate these files? I might try hitting up a local to see if some of these can get printed.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
I could take one of the stock aluminum pulleys, one that has non-concentric radial runout issues...and is only 15mm wide, and I can cut out the aluminum tooth-ring. With the remaining hub/disc, I can precisely scribe the BCD of a Kart sprocket hub (6-hole, 5.25-inch?). This will remove the factory runout.
Then, I can purchase a $20 Extron Kart sprocket for #219 chain (shown below), or...
What is the possibility of a tooth-ring that is 3D printed?: 100T, 20mm wide, HTD-5mm pitch? edit: pulley tooth-ring could be printed in two half-moon sections to make each printed part smaller. Perhaps even print the tooth-ring in 1/3rd sections, and DP-420 the sections together, each with an overlapping half-width tooth on each end. A section of belt can hold the sections in alignment while the DP-420 cures...
Then, I can purchase a $20 Extron Kart sprocket for #219 chain (shown below), or...
What is the possibility of a tooth-ring that is 3D printed?: 100T, 20mm wide, HTD-5mm pitch? edit: pulley tooth-ring could be printed in two half-moon sections to make each printed part smaller. Perhaps even print the tooth-ring in 1/3rd sections, and DP-420 the sections together, each with an overlapping half-width tooth on each end. A section of belt can hold the sections in alignment while the DP-420 cures...
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