skyungjae
10 kW
I imagine lots of chains breaking as well as the teeth on smaller cogs straight up shearing off.
GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
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Muapeia
10 mW
this is one of my projects, and a very fun bike to drive with the engine d GNG 450w only changed in the primary sector of the famous korea rubber strap steel chain, I'm currently making significant changes to make this more reliable equipment some components such as the case of free gear weel has destroyed due to stress placed on the mountain trails that exist in my region.
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Muapeia
10 mW
soon sending my next project, big block'm joining some pieces that unfortunately for us has very high values between transport, parts and duties to our governments, and almost impossible to make a good project below 2500 €, but I I have great pleasure in seeing how a group together like this can make wonderful machines.
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LightningRods
1 MW
Thanks for sharing those photos Antonio. You have some of the coolest bikes I've seen. GNG should pay you for advertising!
Muapeia
10 mW
Good, I have seen that there are great difficulties for members, by importing some objects from china through the site MISTRÄO I also had this experience in multiple purchases I made with them, and one of the things I do not agree is that the obliged to pay for the items before they know if they are available at the supplier, the result is almost always the same items over 2 kg and low prices always say they are not available at origin, because their commission is too low for the volume it occupies in transport, for example the 500 tons contracted in companies that provide transport should financially render a certain value for the agent, hence the reason so many times MISTRAO agent say that the engines that we all speak here not as big blok are available. Now watch this supplier site is one of the best taobao taobao agents http://www.9channel.com, and the result is almost 95% of everything that comes to my house I ask between 10 and in15 days maximum ie since I gave the order one of taoboa sites and reaches the perfect china to Portugal too fast and paid only if the product is available at the source and paypal, with the advantage that I return the item if I detect through the photos submitted by the agent before boarding the items to Portugal if the the item is in trouble or in poor condition or used does not quite leave the warehouse http://www.9channel.com, everything comes perfect inadvertently advertising for this agent I advise.
skyungjae
10 kW
Muapeia said:
I like where you mounted the controller.
Are your headlights wired into your main harness? Do you run the battery in a backpack as well?
Muapeia
10 mW
Skyungjae Hello, I use the correct batteries in a backpack, makes the construction of cleaner ebike, as the driver from behind the wheel also consider more practical especially in these central engines, just need a cable with eight wires inside the wheel well to go gng to the engine, the headlights have all my own energy four bicycles have the same scheme even that has its engine in the rear wheel
As skyunngjae mentioned these large 6kw cyclone motors and the same thing with the GNG big block will be a waste of time on a bicycle as they will be way over the power the normal chains and gear systems can handle which is about ~2kw. So what most people will then do is do direct to the rear wheel to solve it. But then this defeats the whole purpose of middrive as you lose the gear multiplication effect benefits, so even if you have 6kw motor the bike will accelerate similar to a geared 2kw mid drive but it will have a lot heavier battery controller and motor and use a lot use a lot more power doing the same thing. And then if it becomes single speed so why not just get a hub motor instead ? it will be simpler and more efficient as it's direct on the wheel vs mid drive singe speed.
Muapeia
10 mW
spinningmagnets
100 TW
A build like this is where the big block 404 would really shine. The extra two inches or so of width would not be a concern, no pedals to fit between. I'd put a jackshaft inside the pivot of the rear suspension, and that one small change would free up a wide range of options. You could go to 72V-100V and the higher motor-RPMs would still be usable with common sprocket sizes.
LightningRods
1 MW
jk1 said:
When Antonio found the larger GNG-type motor I started calling it the 'big block' and the standard motor the 'small block' because I have lived with these discussions on motor size my entire life in the performance automobile world. Small blocks are lighter, more efficient, make the vehicle more nimble and better balanced, and can deliver even straight line performance very comparable to the big motors. But the big blocks deliver effortless power across a huge power band, enormous torque at any speed, relaxed performance at lower rpm and being less stressed they tend to last longer. Plus big motors just say performance. People love them. The AC Cobra is a far better car with the small block Ford in it. But it's the 427 big block that's a legend.
When people write and ask whether to put a 68mm wide small block on their bike or the 103mm (4.04) big block on their bike I ask them how they ride. The more active they are and the more they off road and bang around on bumps and jumps the more I recommend the small block. People looking for a small battery pack of around 14s 20ah are small block customers no question. But for the crazies pushing the small motor to 3 or even 4kw, they might be happier running that juice through the larger motor. Bee needs to at least try the big block to try to satisfy his power addiction. He bought one of the three I have coming in now.
The point about direct drive is a valid one. You're giving up efficiency for simplicity and brute power. At 1 kw and below the gears really help make 1,000 watts seem like 2,000. At 2,000 watts and above you're going to have constant problems with the bicycle drive train. One thing that SpinningMagnets touches on is that high voltage is good for direct drive. The volts give you rpm which gives you a wide power band, something you need with one gear. The really cool thing about electric motors compared to internal combustion is that a high voltage, high rpm motor has the same low end power as a low voltage motor. That's how the Tesla Roadster has such great performance with one gear.
Kin Fong is working on a 404 mid drive running through the gears. I think it's going to work out fine because he has a big, heavy, strong Versus FS bike with a 100mm BB. His goal is to have effortless performance at under 2kw. WIth a motor that can pull 50-60 amps you don't really need more than 48v through the gears. He will have beast torque at any speed, quiet low rpm operation, and a motor that should last forever. I think it's going to be a sweet build.
Really cool bike that you posted, Antonio. It looks like they managed to reverse the rotation of the motor given that the drive is on the right.
Wishes
1 kW
I can attest that running the "small block" motor at 3kw to 4kw power levels will eat up your bicycle drive train.
Chain rings, freewheels, rear cassette sprockets, derailleur and chain, will all wear out and break, and will require to be replaced, frequently
But then again, we don't do it for the trouble free, long lasting, reliable setup. Most of us running at these power levels through a bicycle drive train are expecting these kind of issues.
If reliability is your objective, run it stock, or run the big block directly to the back wheel bypassing the standard bicycle drive train as LightningRods suggested.
Wishes
Chain rings, freewheels, rear cassette sprockets, derailleur and chain, will all wear out and break, and will require to be replaced, frequently
But then again, we don't do it for the trouble free, long lasting, reliable setup. Most of us running at these power levels through a bicycle drive train are expecting these kind of issues.
If reliability is your objective, run it stock, or run the big block directly to the back wheel bypassing the standard bicycle drive train as LightningRods suggested.
Wishes
skyungjae
10 kW
I have a feeling when I go with LightningRods' wider belt conversion all my drivetrain components will start failing.
I'm looking forward to not having to baby the belt.
I'm looking forward to not having to baby the belt.
LightningRods
1 MW
skyungjae said:I have a feeling when I go with LightningRods' wider belt conversion all my drivetrain components will start failing.
I'm looking forward to not having to baby the belt.
Based on the mileage you've gotten out of those GNG belts, John, you may never have any drivetrain problems once you do the conversion.
But I did give fair warning: I want the rest of your bike to fail before my driveline does. That just means I've done my job.
I ordered 25 GT belts yesterday. I contacted the CNC shop and the freewheel adapters are within 5 days of shipping. All of the #219 chain and sprockets shipped from my supplier today. I'm going to spend this weekend casting pulleys. I'll have the pulleys for all orders ready for shipping when the adapters get here. I also have 10 Cyclone ISIS BBs in stock and 10 more coming along with 10 more HD five bolt freewheels. I have everything but motors under control and I will stay on that until I have a solution.
Thanks so much to all of you for your patience and support while I pull this upgraded mid drive together. We are almost there!
skyungjae
10 kW
I'm far from patient. However, if I'm breaking my new belts at a rate of 150 miles per belt, it should hold me over for a couple of months. :lol:
pollux
1 mW
skyungjae
10 kW
pollux said:
I couldn't retrieve my last broken belt as it disappeared sometime while I was turning left in an intersection.
My plans for having a broken belt collection died the moment that belt disappeared into the wet, dark pavement.
r3volved
100 kW
My LR sheets just got here but I missed ups and now I gotta wait to pick them up tomorrow
I feel like homer waiting for his gun
I feel like homer waiting for his gun
LightningRods
1 MW
pollux said:
The pulleys are ready. The freewheels are ready (and available everywhere). The 100 freewheel adapters I had CNCed should ship tomorrow. I also have 25 belts shipping any day now. We're there! The GT belt conversion is ready.
LightningRods
1 MW
snellemin said:
The 90 tooth 25mm wide GT pulley fits on ALL GNG Gen 1.x kits, from the first Gen 1.0 to the latest 60v chain drive. The 18 tooth driver fits all belt drive GNGs. I'm also working on a version of the 18t driver pulley to fit the 60v chain drive motor shaft.
I have 10 complete ISIS BBs available right now and 10 more coming that I'm going to set up for #219 sprockets.
scorpionice
10 W
waiting for the scratch build... :lol:
LightningRods
1 MW
scorpionice said:
I understand. It's annoying to pay for parts that just end up in the trash.
byebyepetrol
100 W
Hi All, I'm new here, so I'll try to keep the blindingly obvious questions to a minimum until I've settled in.
I'm looking at converting my MTB to electric and the Bafang (oops; correction...GNG) with Lightning Rods mods seems the wise choice.
Can I use my Shimano SLX cranks / BB or am I forced to use their cranks BB combo?
I'm looking at converting my MTB to electric and the Bafang (oops; correction...GNG) with Lightning Rods mods seems the wise choice.
Can I use my Shimano SLX cranks / BB or am I forced to use their cranks BB combo?
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