I have a bike with a green pedel rear hub motor and kt36/48zwsrm-gp01f7 controller. Got it used not working. Said the hub motor is bad. Battery charges, display controller functions, but wiring to the motor controller is questionable as two wire things plug into 3 wire things etc. no signs of burning in the kt controller. Questions: I’d like a pin diagram for the motor connection (round plug). I have a ebike tester off Amazon but it doesn’t support this connector. I have other test equipment available too. Thought I’d verify the status of the motor first if I can. I have no overall wiring diagram or even user manual. Alternative approach : is there a shop in Orange County CA area that is familiar with this setup and maybe sells parts?
Green pedel rear hub motor pinout?
- Thread starter Bklein
- Start date
one of these?Bklein said:
https://www.greenpedel.com/Hub-motor-kit-pl3895393.html
or something else?
like this?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32857864688.html
or something else?
To what voltage? If it's not high enough the controller may not operate the motor.
What specifically is connected where? Can you show pictures of not only the connections, but something that shows both ends of the specific connections? If you can't get that in a picture clearly, could you draw it up? This will help us help you figure out what is connected now, and perhaps where it should be instead if it's wrong.
Bklein said:
Are you trying to trouble shoot the motor or the controller. "Motor is bad" isn't much to go on. If it's a geared motor, that could be the gears are stripped or the clutch is bad. If you're assuming that motor is bad means electrically, you can do some troubleshooting without a diagram, just based on the pin sizes. The 3 large ones are the phase wires, two smaller are the +5v and GND, and 3 are for the hall sensors. If there's a temp probe, then there would be a 6th small wire.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kits/golden-motor-magic-pie/110168-testing-bldc-motor-s-phase-wiring-hall-sensors-and-wiring
Ok, great! Looks like mine is the SM+Waterproof Plug type connections.
The guy that had this bike said it is about 4 years old and one day he went to use it and nothing happened. He took it to a friend that knows more about ebikes and he told him the motor was bad. But I saw that the right brake handle switch wires were broken free (so I fixed them). The controller didn't seem to be connected up correctly. With this I should be able to get it right and even test the brake switches, throttle (is it resistive?). I don't know what PAS is... Light must be the front one as the rear comes off as an assembly (and I had to fix it too). Don't know how the front light turns on - maybe switch on it (has a bunch of electrical tape wrapped around it to keep it in place.) Symptoms are battery charges all bars, charger indicates green. Front controller lights up and interacts correctly - I can switch between 3 speed ranges but no sound or movement of the motor. There is a 6Km blue button - I don't know what it does. The motor is silver, 500W 36V and 26". Now I see the motor plug pins are very obvious vs the sensor pins. Should be easy to test the windings with some EZhooks, I haven't read up yet on the hall sensors but should also be easy. My cheap ebike tester should do it. Looks like I have a hopeful project this weekend!
The guy that had this bike said it is about 4 years old and one day he went to use it and nothing happened. He took it to a friend that knows more about ebikes and he told him the motor was bad. But I saw that the right brake handle switch wires were broken free (so I fixed them). The controller didn't seem to be connected up correctly. With this I should be able to get it right and even test the brake switches, throttle (is it resistive?). I don't know what PAS is... Light must be the front one as the rear comes off as an assembly (and I had to fix it too). Don't know how the front light turns on - maybe switch on it (has a bunch of electrical tape wrapped around it to keep it in place.) Symptoms are battery charges all bars, charger indicates green. Front controller lights up and interacts correctly - I can switch between 3 speed ranges but no sound or movement of the motor. There is a 6Km blue button - I don't know what it does. The motor is silver, 500W 36V and 26". Now I see the motor plug pins are very obvious vs the sensor pins. Should be easy to test the windings with some EZhooks, I haven't read up yet on the hall sensors but should also be easy. My cheap ebike tester should do it. Looks like I have a hopeful project this weekend!
I figured out the pinout of the motor cable by opening up the controller. Throttle controller was bad as the sensor was pulled back from mishandling the front wheel - probably me putting it in my car. Fixed this. Both brake switches work. Didn’t test the pedal sensor yet. I tested the motor windings and they are good. So I’ll try to test the hall sensors. But say one is bad. Has anyone repaired one of these green pedal motors? I’m thinking it is strange that the controller doesn’t even try to spin it. Also, is the front light supposed to be on all the time. Mines not but the light is good (took out and tested it with a power supply). May mean the 5v in the controller is bad.
I had thought pin 2 of the motor connector was 5V in but it is really pin 8.:
Pin 1 yellow motor winding
Pin 2 5v or what?
Pin 3 blue motor winding
Pin 4 green hall sensor
Pin 5 green motor winding
Pin 6 yellow hall sensor
Pin 7 blue hall sensor
Pin 8 5v hall sensor V source
Pin 9 center ground
All sensors work. Windings seem good.
Somethings holding off power to the motor.
I could use a operators manual… attached is a photo of the user interface.
Pin 1 yellow motor winding
Pin 2 5v or what?
Pin 3 blue motor winding
Pin 4 green hall sensor
Pin 5 green motor winding
Pin 6 yellow hall sensor
Pin 7 blue hall sensor
Pin 8 5v hall sensor V source
Pin 9 center ground
All sensors work. Windings seem good.
Somethings holding off power to the motor.
I could use a operators manual… attached is a photo of the user interface.
Attachments
Bklein said:
Try holding the blue 6kmh button for a second or few, with the wheel offground. It should go into "walk mode". If it doesn't, then something (brakes,etc) is keeping system disabled.
Disconnect brake levers and retry. (even though they "work").
IF it works on the walk mode, then the controller works. Then you can make sure you're actually getting the varied throttle signal at the internal PCB on the controller. Signal should vary from around 1v or less at zero throttle to around 3-4v max at full throttle.
Also, some systems require you be pedalling for the throttle to work (for legal compliance in some areas). If the PAS sensor isn't working or you aren't pedalling at whatever rate it requires, then the throttle control of the motor will be disabled, and only operate in walk mode.
Do they have manuals on the site I linked for the manufacturer? If not, you could ask them via their contact page.
Pedal sensor works. 6km button doesn’t help. It blinks if I hold it down several seconds. The user interface seems to work ok. It registers my speed even though the controller is dead to the motor.
I went through the controller and test all its caps (ok). I will likely have to buy a new controller but I do not see the exact one on amazon or ebay. KT36/48ZWSRM-GP01F7
There is one that is similar but doesn't have the block type power connectors and I don't know if it will be compatible with the user interface.
I went through the controller and test all its caps (ok). I will likely have to buy a new controller but I do not see the exact one on amazon or ebay. KT36/48ZWSRM-GP01F7
There is one that is similar but doesn't have the block type power connectors and I don't know if it will be compatible with the user interface.
Bklein said:
If the button blinks it is (AFAIK) indicating it is trying to move the motor in walk mode. If the motor isn't turning, then either there's a connection problem between the motor and controller or a problem with the controller FETs not deliving power to the motor, or a problem with the motor halls not sending position signals back to the controller.
(the halls not wokring typically lets a motor start from certain positions but not all, or gets grindy sounds, etc).
No response from motor of any kind at all, and no resistance during walk mode to manually turning the wheel either direction, usually indicates that there is either no output at all from the controller, or there is no connection to the motor on at least two of the phase wires.
You can test the FETs (more likely to fail than caps) via info on the Grin Tech site in their Learn / Troubleshooting section. Other testing info is there, too.
If you replace the ocntroller, you'll probably ahve to replace the display with one that comes with the controller, if you want a display/control panel. Otherwise it's unlikely to be compatible (there's no standard yet so it's a crapshoot)
Even if you get hte "exact" controller it might have different firmware and be incompatible in some or all ways.
cna't tell without trying it.It's pretty likely that connectors will be different on any controller even if it's the same, unless it comes from the same place the original did *and* they still use the same connectors on their stuff now that they did when that one came out (possible, not a certainty).
YOu may end up changing connectors on some things if you have to change the controller.
The display (UI) is probably getting all it's info from the controller.
Is there a separate wheelspeed sensor? If not, it's getting the speed info from the hall sensor(s) in the motor in the wheel. If there are six hall wires then one of those is probably a separate speed sensor, otherwise it comes from one of the regular motor halls. Disconnecting the motor from the controller and trying to read speed will tell you if it's getting that info from the motor, if necessary. (may tell you if at least those connections are ok, doens't test phase wires)
I suspect there is no 5V to the hall sensor pull-ups in the controller. There probably is a speed sensor in the motor and it’s working. I’ll look closer at the controller circuit to see if I can find a 5V fault. There is a controller on Amazon that seems only to have different power connectors - but it might have a different control panel as you say. There is an lm317 in the controller that may be the 5v source but rare for these to die.
justlooking808
100 W
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2021
- Messages
- 105
Bklein said:
from this info, looks like you have a KT square wave controller. so most of the kt controller should work. just have to find the right amps and maybe re wire some/all the sm connections. unfortunately, even though it's a KT controller, the pas, throttle are differently wired from the 3 different controllers i tried on a couple of ebikes upgrade. the good part is the WP connector to the motor was all the same and worked correctly without just the battery, motor and throttle connected. just have to figure out the throttle wire connections. this would be a good and fast test to see if the motor works correctly.
btw, i believe the programing of the controller is in the display, so it should work with a KT controller as plug and play (as far as the battery, motor, display goes) but you will have to check throttle and pass wires. if i were you, I would buy a 17a KT sine wave controller to test and trade out to as i found it to be much more silent and easier on the motor and my back when lugging around tons of stuff.
PS, pictures of the controller and connections would help. :thumb:
Controller Lm-317 good w/15V out.
Lm7805 good 5V out.
Looks like it is just waiting to be enabled. I think I’ll check out the UI to see if there is an open there.
Photos of controller and connections attached.
Note that brake connections are 2 wire from brake to 3 wire to controller. Thought that a bit strange.
Lm7805 good 5V out.
Looks like it is just waiting to be enabled. I think I’ll check out the UI to see if there is an open there.
Photos of controller and connections attached.
Note that brake connections are 2 wire from brake to 3 wire to controller. Thought that a bit strange.
Attachments
justlooking808
100 W
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2021
- Messages
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Bklein said:
from the pictures everything looks good, you would have to manually test the controller. you can buy one of these to test it : https://smile.amazon.com/Electro-Scooter-Brushless-Controller-Tester/dp/B088ZY2FGV/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=ebike+controller+tester&qid=1638414422&sr=8-2
or you can just buy another controller and see if that works?
the picture on the outside of the controller would give us some good info on what the amps rating is. should look something like this.
this tells you the max current, rated current, voltage, and if it's a square or sine wave controller.
I have that tester but it doesn’t have the same controller and motor connections so useless for that. I just ordered a controller from Amazon but it has a review saying what you see is not what you get. I need the round motor/sensor connector type. I haven’t seen another source for a controller… Battery connectors are different too.
that's usually the Julet type.Bklein said:
regarding other connectors, sometimes there aren't any parts out there with *all* of the right connectors for your stuff, and you ahve to change some of them (or all of them) to get the controller you want that does the things you want it to do.
I received a new controller but it shows the same behavior. No noise or motor movement, control panel works. I saw on a YouTube video that I could leave the brake and pedal sensor connections open so that’s how I tried it. The brake input is “low level” on both controllers. The new controller has a brown-black-yellow connector left open. I am assuming it is for the pedal sense, which on the old controller is red-green-yellow. The only other thing is: are my expectations correct? I switch on the battery, press the control on-off button, select a mode 1 2 or 3, and turn the throttle and it should go?
I ordered the lcd control panel as that’s all I can think of to do next.
I ordered the lcd control panel as that’s all I can think of to do next.
Is it an identical controller, or a different kind? If it's different, what are the specific differences? (old brand/model vs new brand/model, etc)Bklein said:
It could be for a lot of possible things, depending on the controller design. I don't know what that specific color combination might be. I wish there were standards for them, but while there are commonly used combinations, they aren't always used.
I have a handful of PAS-capable controllers, and three of them use red-green-black (like a throttle), another uses red-yellow-black. I forgot what the other one is. Without a wiring diagram for the controller, which should be provided by the seller, either with the controller or on the webpage you bought it from, the only way to find out what the connections are is to open it up and see if there are interpretable markings on the circuit board for where the wires go.
Hopefully you can get the diagram and wont' have to open it up (markings are often similar but not identical, and may not be interpretable with certainty).
That depends on the specific controller design. Simple ones do work that way, but others don't. Some possible examples:
If you have a controller that requires PAS to be engaged before it will allow throttle usage, then you'd have to hook up the correct kind of PAS sensor to it (there are several), and be pedalling, before the throttle will work.
If you ahve a controller that requires a compatible display/controls to be connected to turn it on and to change the mode from zero (no motor operation) to one that allows throttle-only control, then you'd need that specific display, etc. Not all displays are compatible with all controllers; there are at least several communication standards, even when the wiring and plug are the same. If you have a controller that requires the display, it's best to get them as a set to be sure they'll work together.
It could also just be that the controller has a keyswitch/ignition wire (often a single thin red or orange one bundled with the thicker battery plus and minus wires), that needs to be connected to the battery plus to enable the controller.
Etc. Any info you can give about the new controller, like a link to the seller's page, etc., may help us help you find why it's not working.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T6L18VY?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_dt_b_product_details
I ordered the lcd panel the seller offers to go with it.
There are no left over unused wires on the new controller but the brake lines. I tried the pedal connection but no change. It’s pin wiring might be wrong though. The pin wiring on the throttle connection was red/black swapped. Not normally a good thing for downstream things but I checked and throttle voltage still varies as expected like 1v to 3.8v (poor memory). There is a cable on the old controller for I think just the front headlamp. It has no voltage though so the headlamp doesn’t work. No such cable on the new controller. There is a 5v line in the motor cable. Where is it used? I checked the motor windings by the short/ spin wheel test, and the hall sensors by adding pull-up resistor to 5v and spinning wheel. Control panel registers bike speed from something…
I ordered the lcd panel the seller offers to go with it.
There are no left over unused wires on the new controller but the brake lines. I tried the pedal connection but no change. It’s pin wiring might be wrong though. The pin wiring on the throttle connection was red/black swapped. Not normally a good thing for downstream things but I checked and throttle voltage still varies as expected like 1v to 3.8v (poor memory). There is a cable on the old controller for I think just the front headlamp. It has no voltage though so the headlamp doesn’t work. No such cable on the new controller. There is a 5v line in the motor cable. Where is it used? I checked the motor windings by the short/ spin wheel test, and the hall sensors by adding pull-up resistor to 5v and spinning wheel. Control panel registers bike speed from something…
Attachments
I received the LCD control panel and connected it up. Still no indication of power to the motor.
It did show a throttle issue on the display so I moved the red and black throttle wires in the controller back as they were and this error went away. But still no power to the motor. Jeez, the only thing left IS the motor and it seemed to check good electrically.
At this point I think I will give up on it unless you guys have seen this before and I can fix it. I'm not about to order another hub motor at this point. As hall sensors seemed good and windings passed the short two together at a time test, perhaps something inside is not getting the 5V from the cable. I'd have to take the motor apart to see.
It did show a throttle issue on the display so I moved the red and black throttle wires in the controller back as they were and this error went away. But still no power to the motor. Jeez, the only thing left IS the motor and it seemed to check good electrically.
At this point I think I will give up on it unless you guys have seen this before and I can fix it. I'm not about to order another hub motor at this point. As hall sensors seemed good and windings passed the short two together at a time test, perhaps something inside is not getting the 5V from the cable. I'd have to take the motor apart to see.
I pulled off the rear wheel and connected 5V/ground to the hub motor and got no hall sensor outputs at all.
I also blew out the throttle receiving circuit in the original controller by forgetting to switch the red/black wires back... :-(
So I decided to take the hub motor apart and see what gives. Then I discovered this motor is not like those on youtube videos.
I don't see how to take it apart at this point. Anyone know how?
I also blew out the throttle receiving circuit in the original controller by forgetting to switch the red/black wires back... :-(
So I decided to take the hub motor apart and see what gives. Then I discovered this motor is not like those on youtube videos.
I don't see how to take it apart at this point. Anyone know how?
Attachments
sorry, i'm still busy with a city-ordered cleanup project so will be at least several days before i can look into it and respond.
No problem, hope they don’t see my garage. I had several projects simultaneously: this bike, a shortwave receiver repair, plant grafting, a dryer repair, and then strong rains… too much stuff in the garage. I lost the star nosepiece for the motor somewhere, not sure if it is really needed. Anyway, I decided to modify the little ebike tester leads so I could test the motor better. The windings and hall sensors test good. The chip in the old controller is bad (heats up). I think this is due to me misconnecting the throttle. Now I am suspecting that the motor wiring in the Julett connector of the new controller may be wrong for my motor - like maybe the 5V is not getting to the motor. I’ll try to make up an extension cable using the cable from the old controller so I can get at the signals. I also found a local guy that does repairs and might get him to test the motor. Does this KT company have a website that has documentation on this wide variety of controllers they make?
