recumpence
1 GW
Heh, I know what Clue is asking this for. 
Ohhhhh, yes, I can see it now, Man!
Matt
Ohhhhh, yes, I can see it now, Man!
Matt
-
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High power RC motor and drive unit production
- Thread starter recumpence
- Start date
GGoodrum
1 MW
Finally got some time yesterday to spend a couple hours on getting my Hacker/eDrive assembly mounted on the target bike for this setup, which is a Dahon 16" Curve D3 folding bike. This frame has an oblong shape for the tubing, so the clamps that Matt is having done won't work for this bike. Instead, what I've done is to fabricate two angled aluminum "wings" that attach to the sides of Matt's drive. I added slotted holes that are used with a couple of standard steel U-bolts. These U-bolts just fit around the oblong frame and there's no twisting possible, so the drive assembly stays perpendicular to the frame. Anyway, I just loosely assembled it, to check the fit, chain alignment, etc. Here's some pics:
I still need to do some tweaking a bit, so that I have enough front-to-back "play, so that I can tension the chain going to the crank, and I think I will angle the motor back a bit, so it is closer to the seat post. I also need to cut the excess threads off the U-bolts, especially in back, and see if I can't pretty up the wings a bit.
I picked this bike originally because folded up, it is the smallest I've seen, and is fairly light. It couldn't take a x5, though, so I moved on to larger 20" models. With this new setup, it is still going to fold up small, and won't weigh a ton, like the 5303-equipped 20" models ended up weighing. I've always loved this bike, so now it will get a new life. Anyway, I thought about using the new clamp mounts on the seat post, but then it can't collapse when folded up, and I forgot, the seat post is also an air pump, so it would loose that function as well. Although not quite as "elegant", the wings/U-bolt solution is quite functional.
Next up, I need to replace the front crank with the IPS crankset that I have modified to replace the 16T cheapie FW with a 16T ENO. I added a 53T chainring for that will be driven by the 12T cog on the eDrive's output shaft, and a 40T chain ring to drive the rear 3-speed SRAM hub, which has a 20T cog.
I also need to find a place for the HV110 and the throttle board. I'm thinking these will fit in the area behind the seat post, in front of the rear wheel.
Once I make a bit more progress, I'll start a new thread for this build. I'm also going to replace the Cyclone setup on my 20" Mariner folding bike, with the 3210-based drive assembly, but I need the new clamps for this setup. In the meantime, I'll try and get the Curve up and running.
-- Gary
I still need to do some tweaking a bit, so that I have enough front-to-back "play, so that I can tension the chain going to the crank, and I think I will angle the motor back a bit, so it is closer to the seat post. I also need to cut the excess threads off the U-bolts, especially in back, and see if I can't pretty up the wings a bit.
I picked this bike originally because folded up, it is the smallest I've seen, and is fairly light. It couldn't take a x5, though, so I moved on to larger 20" models. With this new setup, it is still going to fold up small, and won't weigh a ton, like the 5303-equipped 20" models ended up weighing. I've always loved this bike, so now it will get a new life. Anyway, I thought about using the new clamp mounts on the seat post, but then it can't collapse when folded up, and I forgot, the seat post is also an air pump, so it would loose that function as well. Although not quite as "elegant", the wings/U-bolt solution is quite functional.
Next up, I need to replace the front crank with the IPS crankset that I have modified to replace the 16T cheapie FW with a 16T ENO. I added a 53T chainring for that will be driven by the 12T cog on the eDrive's output shaft, and a 40T chain ring to drive the rear 3-speed SRAM hub, which has a 20T cog.
I also need to find a place for the HV110 and the throttle board. I'm thinking these will fit in the area behind the seat post, in front of the rear wheel.
Once I make a bit more progress, I'll start a new thread for this build. I'm also going to replace the Cyclone setup on my 20" Mariner folding bike, with the 3210-based drive assembly, but I need the new clamps for this setup. In the meantime, I'll try and get the Curve up and running.
-- Gary
GGoodrum
1 MW
nomad85 said:Looking good Gary, I (and everyone else) am really looking forward to seeing your progress
What kind of batteries are you planning to use?
I want to use it with the 16s5p a123 pack, shown below:
I need to test it with a CC HV controller first. I used to run HV45s and HV85s on a 15s a123 setup, and it was fine, but I've never tried 16s yet. I don't want to blow a brand new HV110, so my plan is to try a spare HV45 I have, and see if any any "magic smoke" appears.
A 16s pack, fresh off the charger can be as high as 58V, but usually it will settle down to about 56V within a few minutes. That's where I'll start.-- Gary
I am pretty sure I saw a post that the HV line is only good to 51or 53 volts. I cant remember who posted that though.
Some 20-30c lipos would make that the ultimate lightweight portable ebike
(although that is a really nice A123 pack. How much does it weigh?)
Some 20-30c lipos would make that the ultimate lightweight portable ebike
(although that is a really nice A123 pack. How much does it weigh?)
johnrobholmes
10 MW
The HV caps are 50v rated. If you assume 10% tolerance of the caps, 55v would be the max.
I put 18s a123 through mine and didn't have a failure. That initial high voltage is what can hurt the components, so best knock down the fresh - off -the - charger voltage.
I put 18s a123 through mine and didn't have a failure. That initial high voltage is what can hurt the components, so best knock down the fresh - off -the - charger voltage.
GGoodrum
1 MW
johnrobholmes said:
Yes, I agree. The surface charge is held up pretty high by healthy a123 cells, but it can be bleed off pretty easy. I thought I remember you saying you've run higher that 15s on these, John, but 18s not blowing anything is very surprising indeed. Even the nominal voltage of an 18s pack is close to 60V. What kind of current loads were you pulling?
Regarding the caps, if we are running extras, via the new throttle convertor board, I wonder if that would help the problem, or are they still going to only be good for 50-55V?
Anyway, I'm going to "fire up" an HV45 tonight, and see what happens.
Nomad, the 16s5p a123 pack weighs about 14 pounds.
-- Gary
liveforphysics
100 TW
Beautiful battery pack Gary! Did you make that yourself? Very nicely done!
I'm excited to see how your project turns out. Great work!
-Luke
I'm excited to see how your project turns out. Great work!
-Luke
The problem is the caps as you can see they're rated to 50 volts. Running extra caps in parallel with the battery line won't change the peak voltage the controller's caps see so I doubt that would change the "top voltage" problem. Other than that, i can imagine the FETs would be the next problem, but I have my doubts they're similarly limited to a strict ~50 volts. Anyways, during my email with a representative I received this:
So go substantially above that voltage at your own risk.
So go substantially above that voltage at your own risk.
The way I understand it, don't go over that voltage AT ALL. The way I was taught to figure caps in was to calculate your working system voltage, and then multiply that by 1.5 to get your capacitor peak voltage. So a 50v cap is only good for a 33v system.
When there are capacitors and/or inductors in a system, there will be dynamic currents which you might not anticipate. If you have a capacitor AND an inductor, you can wind up with several times the peak system working voltage as an AC component. That's called a tuned circuit, meaning that a resonance comes into existence, either as feedback or as an inherent instability of the circuit. For example, a radio transmitter or receiver uses a tuned circuit deliberately to match up with a certain frequency. A PA for a stage, on the other hand, gets that whistle when you get the microphone too close to the speaker. That's a feedback loop, which is of course not deliberate.
When there are capacitors and/or inductors in a system, there will be dynamic currents which you might not anticipate. If you have a capacitor AND an inductor, you can wind up with several times the peak system working voltage as an AC component. That's called a tuned circuit, meaning that a resonance comes into existence, either as feedback or as an inherent instability of the circuit. For example, a radio transmitter or receiver uses a tuned circuit deliberately to match up with a certain frequency. A PA for a stage, on the other hand, gets that whistle when you get the microphone too close to the speaker. That's a feedback loop, which is of course not deliberate.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Luke,
Very nice work!
Documented here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2498&start=330#p124394
and:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2498&start=330#p125404
and:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2498&start=360#p133042
etc...
liveforphysics said:
Very nice work!
Documented here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2498&start=330#p124394
and:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2498&start=330#p125404
and:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2498&start=360#p133042
etc...
recumpence said:sockman said:recumpence said:Wow, perfect timing!
I just finished your drive this morning (other than the belt. I am waiting on my next batch to arrive).
Are you driving the left or right side? I need to know so I can setup your FW adaptor to match.
Matt
perfect!
i'm driving left sided...
That's what I figured. So, I guessed and set it up that way.
As soon as the belt arrives, I will ship it.
Matt
are the belts here yet? i'm getting excited...
recumpence
1 GW
Yup, arrived yesterday!
Happy day!
Your drive is done and I am on to Y-Pedal's drive.
Matt
Happy day!
Your drive is done and I am on to Y-Pedal's drive.
Matt
recumpence said:Yup, arrived yesterday!
Happy day!
Your drive is done and I am on to Y-Pedal's drive.
Matt
* Insert Dance of Joy Smiley !!
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi Matt,
Would it be less expensive to make drive "mounting feet" (maybe optional) a little wider with a grove on the bottom the diameter of the tube, with bottom piece(s) to make the clamp? In other words the top (or left side) of these clamps would be the bottom of the "foot":
This might be more universal. For example even though it wouldn't be a perfect mate if Gary used something like that with longer bolts and gaps on the sides it would probably work better on his Dahon than his current plan.
I also want to suggest that if anyone is planning on squeezing the mount into a tight location they make a simple model and get and idea of how well its going to work (or not ). I spent about 30 minutes making a simple model and immediately realized what I planned to do wouldn't work (picture repeated):
As soon as D tried to fit his drive he realized it wasn't going to work as intended. I'm sure he and Steve will figure out a good solution but if he had played around with a model he might have decided on a different drive configuration.
recumpence said:
Would it be less expensive to make drive "mounting feet" (maybe optional) a little wider with a grove on the bottom the diameter of the tube, with bottom piece(s) to make the clamp? In other words the top (or left side) of these clamps would be the bottom of the "foot":
This might be more universal. For example even though it wouldn't be a perfect mate if Gary used something like that with longer bolts and gaps on the sides it would probably work better on his Dahon than his current plan.
I also want to suggest that if anyone is planning on squeezing the mount into a tight location they make a simple model and get and idea of how well its going to work (or not
). I spent about 30 minutes making a simple model and immediately realized what I planned to do wouldn't work (picture repeated):As soon as D tried to fit his drive he realized it wasn't going to work as intended. I'm sure he and Steve will figure out a good solution but if he had played around with a model he might have decided on a different drive configuration.
MitchJi
10 MW
Hi,
I asked for a quote on boring out the center of a 90t pulley to accept a White FW and he wants to see an image of the pulley.
Would someone please post a link to the pulleys Matt is using?
Thanks!
Mitch
I asked for a quote on boring out the center of a 90t pulley to accept a White FW and he wants to see an image of the pulley.
Would someone please post a link to the pulleys Matt is using?
Thanks!
Mitch
GGoodrum
1 MW
I spent some time yesterday with both mounts, on both folding bikes (16" Curve D3 and 20" Mariner...), and have decided to go back to square 1, in regards to figuring out how to mount the mount. In the case of the Curve, the U-bolts aren't going to work because it turns out there isn't enough room in that area to move the mount enough to tension the chain. No easy place to mount a chain tensioner either. Besides, I was unhappy with two things, first the stupid, kluge-y "wings", and most important, I wasn't thrilled about having a kevlar belt whipping around at 6000 rpm, between my legs. 
That makes me nervous as a cat.
What I'm going to do in both cases is to go back to the idea of having the mount in the triangular space between the seat post and the rear rack/tire area. For the Mariner, it is where the Cyclone motor was, which I removed yesterday. Hard to explain, but I think I have a way figured out how to do this that won't be too hard for me to fashion, given my limited fabrication skills. I'll post pics later.
-- Gary
In the case of the Curve, the U-bolts aren't going to work because it turns out there isn't enough room in that area to move the mount enough to tension the chain. No easy place to mount a chain tensioner either. Besides, I was unhappy with two things, first the stupid, kluge-y "wings", and most important, I wasn't thrilled about having a kevlar belt whipping around at 6000 rpm, between my legs. That makes me nervous as a cat. What I'm going to do in both cases is to go back to the idea of having the mount in the triangular space between the seat post and the rear rack/tire area. For the Mariner, it is where the Cyclone motor was, which I removed yesterday. Hard to explain, but I think I have a way figured out how to do this that won't be too hard for me to fashion, given my limited fabrication skills.
I'll post pics later.-- Gary
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