Hub drive from 26" wheel to 20" wheel

rocketman58

10 mW
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
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I have a Bafang 500w rear hub drive (620 I believe) on my 26" rear wheeled trike. I would like to reuse the hub drive on a 20" rear wheeled trike. I was told that if I do this the motor will have a lower top end speed, but more torque. Using the throttle on the 26" wheel I get a top speed of around 26mph. Converting to a 20" wheel, how much would the top speed drop?
 
Quick check of circumferences of 559 vs 406 tires shows about a . 75 ratio, so I would estimate the new speed at 19.5, but that is not absolute. You can try the Grin simulator, or even set your display controller etc to the 20" size to estimate. The motor may well be able to pull a higher rpm under load so math alone can't tell.
 
So moved my 500w Bafang geared hub motor from my old 26" rear wheels trike to me new 20" rear wheeled trike. I installed everything including the KT display and controller from the old trike on the new one. I changed the speed setting from a 26" to a 20" wheel, and everything works fine. The speedometer is very accurate. However the motor cuts off at about 17mph now. On the old 26" wheeled trike it would keep going up to at least 24mph (the limit of my gearing). Is there any way to get the speed up over 20mph?

I was told by the retailer that there is no difference in the hub motors no matter what size physical wheel you choose. Is this True for the Bafang 500w rear geared hub motor kits typically sold on Amazon?
 
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Is there any way to get the speed up over 20mph?
Depends on which '500W' hub motor, controller and pack voltage you have. Typically, to increase ground speed, a higher battery pack voltage must be applied, i.e. 48V>72V.
 
So moved my 500w Bafang geared hub motor from my old 26" rear wheels trike to me new 20" rear wheeled trike. I installed everything including the KT display and controller from the old trike on the new one. I changed the speed setting from a 26" to a 20" wheel, and everything works fine. The speedometer is very accurate. However the motor cuts off at about 17mph now. On the old 26" wheeled trike it would keep going up to at least 24mph (the limit of my gearing). Is there any way to get the speed up over 20mph?
As was noted in the first response to your thread, the speed will be proportional between the wheel sizes.

If you decreased the size by 20:26 then the new speed will be that ratio x 24. So 20 / 26 = 0.7692307692307692 X 24 = 18.46153846153846. Since your speed is slower than that, probably your old 26" tires were "fatter" than 26" and your new 20" tires are "skinny" so they're actually 20" or less.

To make it go faster, you would need to do any of the following:

-- put the motor into the same size wheel it was originally in

-- replace the battery with one that is proportionally higher in voltage (1/0.7692307692307692 at minimum) than what you have now, and if your present controller/display aren't rated for that, then also replace those with ones rated for at least that voltage. Note that if you pick a battery that is only that high in voltage when it's fully charged, you'll only get the speed you want at the start of a ride. So pick one that is still that high a voltage when it is empty, so you'll get that speed even at the end of the ride.

-- take the motor out of the wheel and build a middrive with it that is geared with the right ratio to the wheel to give the speed you want.

-- an option that will give some higher speed is to replace the controller with an FOC controller that offers Field Weakening (Phaserunner, VESC, etc), then tune the controller to work with your motor and system, then experiment with FW in it until it goes as fast (while riding) as it can get--that may not be much faster, or it might be enough for what you want. Note that this will heat the motor more, and use your battery faster, the entire time you are riding at a speed that requires FW. How much more and how much faster you won't know till you're doing it, but it could be enough to overheat the motor.

I was told by the retailer that there is no difference in the hub motors no matter what size physical wheel you choose. Is this True for the Bafang 500w rear geared hub motor kits typically sold on Amazon?
There are different windings available for some motors, but documentation on what speed that gives you in any particular wheel at any particular voltage is hard to come by. See the motor simulator at ebikes.ca for a few documented motors and a way to see what any particular motor / system should be able to do under specific riding conditions.

You can at least guess the motor speed you'd actually get for something you find on the web by taking the speed it says it goes in the wheelsize it's provided in at the battery voltage it's sold for, and taking the wheelsize and battery voltage you are using and creating a ratio with the ad's values, and using that ratio to see what speed it would go with your values.
 
Yeah, the maximum wheel rpm is a function of battery voltage for any particular motor. It's called the Kv ratio, and if you know that you'll know the maximum speed you'll travel no load on a wheel. If you want more speed and it's on a 36v bike try going to a 48v battery. On a 48v bike try a 52v setup. Though it all depends on the maximum voltage your controller is rated for. That experiment, btw, will cost a few Franklins.
 
Thank you for the responses, a lot of good information.

A few takeaways: 1) I went from a 26x1.75" tire to a 20x2.0" tire. This means going with a slightly larger/wider (20x2.15") tire would increase my speed, but not enough to really matter. Going with a narrower tire would decrease my speed even further, but I have no such plans. 2) I have a 48v battery, but it is currently charged to only 45v. Recharging it should gain a little more speed, at least until the voltage starts to drop again. 3) My KT22A controller is rated for 36/48v so I would need to replace it as well as the battery. I'm not sure the slight speed increase provided by 52v would be cost effective. Maybe something to consider down the road when my battery needs replacement. 4) I have considered mid drives, but the current aftermarket models all present me with issues due to my physical problems and limitations.

While I would like the option of a bit more top end speed, I guess I can live with 17-18mph. This is my normal cruising speed, but I like having a bit in reserve. However, going faster than this has gotten me into trouble a few times. As I'm getting older, my reaction times are not what they used to be. On my initial test rides I did notice I was able to climb my local hills a little better than with the 26" wheeled trike (other than rear wheel size they are near identical trikes.) I was told that while I would see a speed reduction, the smaller rear wheel would provide a bit more torque. If this is the case, then it is a good trade off for a little reduced top end speed.
 
Tire width itself does not affect top speed as you apparently think it does. What does affect the top speed is the tire's overall diameter, actually its circumference at the tread. As you have reported, swapping in a smaller circumference tire/wheel has reduced your top speed, and increased perceived "torque." It's an inverse relationship.

Realize that many 48V controllers can function fine with 52V batteries. Mainly depends on the ratings of the capacitors inside. You could open the controller and verify the cap ratings (60V or better would work).

Also (as docw009 stated above) a fully charged battery will increase top speed.
 
I was told that while I would see a speed reduction, the smaller rear wheel would provide a bit more torque. If this is the case, then it is a good trade off for a little reduced top end speed.
Torque is independent of wheel size; it's a product of force times radius. So if you reduce the wheel radius, you increase the force (tractive effort), but not the torque.
 
Tire width itself does not affect top speed as you apparently think it does. What does affect the top speed is the tire's overall diameter, actually its circumference at the tread. As you have reported, swapping in a smaller circumference tire/wheel has reduced your top speed, and increased perceived "torque." It's an inverse relationship.

Realize that many 48V controllers can function fine with 52V batteries. Mainly depends on the ratings of the capacitors inside. You could open the controller and verify the cap ratings (60V or better would work).

Also (as docw009 stated above) a fully charged battery will increase top speed.
I could have explained it better, but generally a wider tire provides a larger overall diameter. A typical 20"x1.0 tire has a smaller diameter than a typical 2.0" wide tire. This of course is tiny compared to the difference between a 26" and a 20" tire.
 
2) I have a 48v battery, but it is currently charged to only 45v.
That's closer to empty than even half full (a 48v battery fully charged would be ~54v, if it's a 13s non-lifepo4 type. If it's a 14s non-LFP full is ~58v, and 45v is pretty much empty).




3) My KT22A controller is rated for 36/48v so I would need to replace it as well as the battery. I'm not sure the slight speed increase provided by 52v would be cost effective.
52v/48v are effectively the same for most ebike controllers. (see above for full voltages of each)

60v and up are not, and some controllers will take that and some won't.


4) I have considered mid drives, but the current aftermarket models all present me with issues due to my physical problems and limitations.
If you are referring to my suggestion, you might re-read it. ;) It was not to change to a middrive, it is to move your hubmotor out of the wheel and into the frame *as* a middrive (there are a number of ways of doing it but it will take significant DIY to make any of them happen).
 
If you are referring to my suggestion, you might re-read it. ;) It was not to change to a middrive, it is to move your hubmotor out of the wheel and into the frame *as* a middrive (there are a number of ways of doing it but it will take significant DIY to make any of them happen).
Sorry, I never even considered doing that. When I read it, my brain filled in mid drive. Interesting thought though.
 
Interesting thought though.
That is what I did on my trike - last in my signature. Look down the thread for the latest arrangement, but I'll be doing some more evolution once my fabricator gets back in January.
 
With 53v in the battery, my top speed is 20.5mph. I can't go much faster than that anyway as that's almost the limit of my top gear. This is more than enough speed for me. Thanks for everyone's help.
 
Maybe it has a speed limiter on the controller usually the speed limiter is a white wire with a two-pin just with one white wire if so disconnect it. And give it a try.
 
With 53v in the battery, my top speed is 20.5mph. I can't go much faster than that anyway as that's almost the limit of my top gear. This is more than enough speed for me. Thanks for everyone's help.
So it looks like the solution was to run it with the battery at a higher SOC?
 
I could have explained it better, but generally a wider tire provides a larger overall diameter. A typical 20"x1.0 tire has a smaller diameter than a typical 2.0" wide tire. This of course is tiny compared to the difference between a 26" and a 20" tire.
It is called aspect ratio. The wider tire in most cases has taller side walls. Exception being super low profile tires.
 
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