Infineon: Reading stock values before mods

[jbond]

With Infineon based controllers with the serial port for programming with parameterdesigner, is there any way of finding out the stock values prior to tweaking them? I'd like to know what the values are as the controller is delivered so there's a safe base setting to get back to.

The actual controller is part of a package from Bafang with a BPM motor, e-bus wiring and wiring concentrator and a combined 3 mode switch and battery health indicator. I don't actually know yet what the controller is but plan to take it apart shortly and find out. Considering replacing it with an ecrazyman if it's not obviously the same type.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

There's no way of reading the programmed values back from these controllers, unfortunately.

Do you have an Infineon (846 chip) or a XieChang (116 chip) controller? The older Infineon controllers seem to have been superseded by the 116 based ones now, which is useful as XieChang do publish settings for standard uses of each model. My guess is that the majority of pre-programmed controllers from China will follow the XieChang settings, some of which are in the attached Chinese document (with a crappy English translation).

View attachment XCKJ 8B116A settings.pdf

Jeremy

 

[jbond]

Hmm. Well that's as clear as mud! What I gather from that is that the overall speed limit is set to 60% by default mainly as a legal speed limit control. It's not clear what the 3 speed settings are set to by default. 30-60-100 perhaps. The rest of it seems to be about cruise control, regen and so on.

I haven't been able to find it, but is there any info on ES of battery-motor-controller settings that people have made work? Or starter setting combinations that are likely to work.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Not really, and unless you tell us the voltage of your battery pack and the sort of power level and speed you're looking for, together with the type of controller you have we can't really offer any more than those notional current settings in the garbled Chinese document.

For example, do you have a 6 FET, 9 FET, 12 FET, 18 FET or whatever controller?

How much current can your battery pack deliver?

With a bit more info we can have a stab at guessing some settings for you.

Jeremy

 

[NRG]

I've been conversing with jbond over on the UK Pedelec forum. The controller is a 6 fet one based on the 116 from e-crazy man. Currently it's set for 20amp on 36v, it's replaced a single speed 15amp one on a UK road legal bike.

The battery is 10ah and seems to be coping OK with the new controller, hill climbing is vastly improved.

This started out as a means to learn how these controllers work and what the parameters are that govern speed and power. We've both read loads on ES which has been invaluable but locating information can be a bit tricky as it tends to get buried in various threads. Many thanks for the Doc linked to above though it helps even if the translation is challenging at best

 

[jbond]

That's his. This is mine.

It's a Bafang setup with a BPM marked 36V350W 26(11). It also has the E-Bus wiring concentrator and a Mode switch marked 980. The battery is a Phylion LiPo 36V10AHr.

Concentrator

Here's the case

Controller

Underside

Here's all the numbers
Rated Voltage 36V, Max Current 18A, Rated Current 9A, LVC 31.5V, Throttle 1.2V->4,4V, Product No. W???1004032169, CE: G2M20211-1592-16, LSDZS.com, PS6G96A, 212304A, 200504, 6 FETS IRF3205 927PZK, Big Cap 50V 1000muF, Chip 78MOS 980119, daughter board SLM-A 290508. There is a throttle-pedelec switch. The pedelec seems to be on-off rather than any kind of cadence or torque sensing. There looks to be a set of programming pads marked S (for serial?) in the furthest corner from the FETs and connector pads. This is different from the pics I've seen on ES of the programming pad locations.

So this is a 36v 350W, 6Fet, from LSDZS. The case is about 100mm on the biggest dimension, so I guess this is this one.
http://www.lsdzs.com/ProView.asp?ProId=324

Overall performance is approx 11mph, 16mph, 21mph in the three modes. These speeds seem to be controller limited rather than hitting the free running top speed of the motor. I have to say I'm happy with this, but curious about what, if anything, can be done to get more performance preferably without changing batteries. I suspect that the controller is programmed conservatively and even staying with 36v there's more power and top speed available. The next stage might be to swap out the controller for one from ecrazyman but that may mean losing the wiring concentrator and mode switch/battery health indicator. I don't know the C rating of the battery but I would have thought it could cope with short bursts of 2C.

So what do you think? Does anyone recognise this?

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Thanks for the comprehensive info. The controller may still have a speed limit set, but I'm not sure that it's very likely to be the cause of your lower than desired speed.

I think that the 9A current limit is your problem, as this is a pretty low figure. The poor motor isn't getting enough current to drive you over 11mph I expect.

The set of pads by the letter 'S' might be a programming port, but I have no idea where you would get hold of the programming software or what the connections are. If it is using an Infineon 846 chip, then there is a slim possibility that the Keywin programming software for this chip *might* work and it may be possible to work out the programming port connections by comparing the board traces with a normal Infineon controller. It also might brick the controller, though.................

All told, I think the cheapest and simplest way to get what you're after would be to replace the controller with either an EB206 or maybe an EB209 or even an EB212. These are all fairly cheap (Keywin sells them all) and have the advantage of being a known entity that's easily programmed or modified to do pretty much whatever you want.

Your battery is probably going to restrict you to around 20 to 25A, as I doubt that it will be up to coping with discharge rates of over about 2 to 2.5C. This would make the EB206 controller a good bet. They are around $22 on ebay (plus as much again for shipping............) but should do what you want. My guess is that with the current upped to around 20A or so you should be able to do 15 - 18mph or maybe a bit more.

Jeremy

 

[jbond]

Thanks Jeremy. I think you missed this bit though, "Overall performance is approx 11mph, 16mph, 21mph in the three modes." That's L,M,H. So my top speed definitely isn't 11mph, it's 21mph. The 11mph is an artificial low speed for economy or limiting speed up a hill. And although it's marked as 9A rated, it's also marked as 18A max. I think I probably am getting a sustained 350W out of the motor WOT.

I think LSDZS are a well known supplier of controllers and the specs on their pages sound very like the more familiar Shengzen-Sucteam controllers with all the same features. I reckon the design is very very similar but with a different board layout. There's three major chips on the board but I can only read the numbers on one of them unfortunately.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

Whoops, you're right, I did miss that bit. I think you're right, the controller must be delivering a lot more than 9A.

The current range of XieChang controllers (the ones Keywin sells with the 'Sucteam" markings) don't use the Infineon 846, which is the chip that I think your controller uses from the photos, they use the 116 chip, which has some extra features (including better throttle response). I'm not sure whether you can still buy controllers that use the Infineon chips, although suspect that one or two suppliers, like Crystalyte, might still be using them.

Personally I've never heard mention of LSDZS before, but maybe someone else here has. There are a lot of manufacturers in China making these things for their massive domestic market and only a few of them export outside China.

Jeremy

 

[jbond]

Hmmm. This looks interesting. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16703&start=0&hilit=LSDZS.com

 

[full-throttle]

jbond,

I do recognise the controller - I had one myself.

You won't be able to increase the top speed, its dictated by your motor not the controller.

However, you CAN make it accelerate harder by changing the FETS and the modifying the shunt. You can even take it to 48V by changing the caps. I've done it all and that matchbox controller is in hands of another ES member. I'm also using a sensor-ed version of it daily - 48V/25A

PS Designer Parameter won't work either as the two controllers use different uC

 

[jbond]

On that other thread is a spec sheet for the different models of BPM. The 26(code 11) has a free running speed of 285rpm. 21mph is getting close to that so there's no more speed to come without upping the voltage. So the only upgrade is really a new battery and controller and then trying to match the switch gear with the new controller or swapping it all out. So in the end I think I'll just ride the damn thing since it works well now and start thinking about the next (perfect!) bike.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

So in the end I think I'll just ride the damn thing since it works well now and start thinking about the next (perfect!) bike.

No such thing.............. We're a contrary lot, never happy with 'just good enough' when it comes to electric bikes! I'm sitting here waiting for a bunch of LiPos to arrive from Hobby King to boost the performance of what started off as a little local runabout folding bike project. I'm already worried that I didn't order enough and should really take it up to 72V.......................

Jeremy

 

[jbond]

Ain't that the truth. Some times I think I'm cursed with that general disatisfaction with products I can buy or have bought. There's *always* some way they can be improved, or some stupid design fault.

 

[amberwolf]

Of all the things I own and use all the time, the only unmodified one is a spoon I happen to like the shape of when I eat.

Everything else I can think of right now has been altered in some way to make it more acceptable to me.

 

[Paolo99]

@jbond

I too have purchased the controller to replace a burned
There are no wires to the gas (throttle) and I can not run
my bike with 250watt brushless motor. Can you give me the wiring diagram of your unit all the various links.
I contacted the factory via email but got no answer is about a year. Excuse my "google Inglese" I'm Italian.
Thank you for everything

 

[full-throttle]

Connect 'throttle' signal to HO pad on the board

 

[Paolo99]

@ Full throttle

Thank you for your quick reply. I felt like I had suggested
but a wrong link now does not make me turn on the red light ....
I do not know what to do. I joined gnd, +5 v and H0 throttle cables
the engine has made a little movement ...
Could you tell me the pads TOR VM H0 H2 RV VL THE BKL BKH VP LAT H1 H2 H3 refer to what?
Do not worry if you can not answer is already good.
Thanks again.

I posted at http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21281

 

[Pedalto]

Hi Endless-Sphere folks,
i just entered the sphere and realized that it s really huge. Nice work!

I bought an EB209 controller and I m going to program new values. But wanted to know the stock values first. Just in case I ll put in something completely wrong.
By now I wasn t successful finding a file with all the data except of the crappy Chin-Eng file which isnt that useful. Isnt there any other use-able file?

Thx