Is Stealth B-52 Bomber worth the $11,000 sticker price?

I think that if I ride the bicycle trails in Arizona then nobody will complain. The desert land is plentiful, maintenance is not needed, and most mountain bikers look like Stealth riders there anyway, on fully suspended bikes with beefy forks and wearing serious protection gear.

But I think in Michigan the situation is slightly different. I know that my favorite trail is maintained by some bicycle club, it is in a state park, and they worry that we do not dig up too many roots and cause too much soil erosion. If they see me there blasting under full power they will surely raise their brows and complain. However, this is all in the woods, so if they happen to see me then I could get off the gas and start pedaling. I can keep it "stealthy".

As far as dirt bike trails, those are much farther north, and many of them are much more fun on dirt bikes. If I indeed decide to go there then I'd just take a dirt bike instead.

I look forward to explore wider areas in or near my town, the surrounding parks, perhaps power line roads where a motorcycle would clearly be not welcomed, or too big and powerful, or noisy. Perhaps testing out some BMX parks, or just hilly areas with some jumps and berms.

I think, technically, low-power electric bicycles should be just as illegal on forest trails as all gas powered mopeds. And high-power bicycles like the Stealth or faster should require license plates, annual registration, insurance, a drivers license with motorcycle endorcement, and a helmet. But this would upset all the green people. So, I am glad that all things electric are currently in fashion, and I would like to claim my part of the fun.
 
I simply thought you might find the Haibike too pricy, if you are planning on two purchases. that's all.

I'm not sure if you ride at a level where you would notice the difference between a bike with a $1000 fork, and one with a $3000 fork. I was thinking of the ten grand haibikes.

Lots of nice mid drives out there now, with bosch or shimano mid drives. Top of the trek line for example, 5 thou. Any trek bike shop should be able to get you one. I don't know bike prices that well, but I'm assuming this all amounts to a bike that would sell for at least $3000 these days, if it was not electric.

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/electric-mountain-bikes/powerfly-fs/powerfly-8-fs-plus/p/2931600-2017/
 
That was Mr. Shoestring who was asking about the Haibike. I do not think I want one.

The problem with many of those low-power mid-drive bikes is that they assist you when you are going slow, but do nothing when you are going fast. This is a fun killer, IMO.

Are there any bikes that assist proportionately to my pedaling effort? This is actually what I would want any electric bike to do. Push the button and start pedaling. Forget about the throttle. There must be a torque sensor somewhere in the chain drive. Arere any bikes like this?
 
A 20 mph Haibike (have tested several off road and own one) is fine for me in socal, and an individual wouldn't be welcome on anything but street legal trails on a Stealth-type "bike" (actually moped) or ATV trails in the environs where they're permitted.
 
its a lot of money but they are great bikes

i think it comes down to personal preference, i would much rather build my own bike, on a Raptor or FUTUR frame, with around 30AH of battery, a MXUS or QS205 with FF and Hubsinks, sabvoton 96150 & Ca3 or Addapto controller, but that's because i also enjoy building them as much as riding and find it rewarding. I

think it comes down to your level of confidence in your ability to design and assemble (and the value you put on your time also)

i would like to see the comparison between Stealth,NYX bikes LMX bike, Qulbix and Neematic directly also
 
MX Engineer said:
I also happen to feel retarded when it comes to electrical DIY projects. I can build or fix anything else though
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How are you with ikea furniture ? :p
As others have said the bombers are a pretty solid option and if you want something turn key without all the trial and error they're hard to go past. But if you're the DIY type the FUTR frames also manufactured by stealth with a near identical look let you build up something that suits how you'll ride.
This forum is primarily populated with DIY types so our views are heavily skewed that way. People who mod their stealths don't HAVE TO, they chose to. Just like cars - there's people who'll spend half a million on a lambo and then still want to hot it up for more power.
But if you think you want more power or a motorcycle wheels or what ever it makes sense to build it your way from the ground up and not have to replace half of the perfectly good stealth gear (at great expense)

Without turning this into a sales pitch if you're up to building and fixing things as you said above but just don't want to have to nut out all the electrical intricacies I could send you a complete bike in parts to save a heap on shipping. All the parts selection and wiring would be plug and play - it'd essentially be a big flat pack project.
 
Well, that was a sales pitch, but I'll let it slide. Another moderator might edit it.

PM for that kind of message is one alternative.

I often lose track of who started the thread. If a "motorcycle with pedals" is what you want, I can see how there would be plenty of" nobody cares here" riding area for a motorcycle power e bike in AZ. But places for "bike" they will not appreciate it if your ride so the tire digs holes and throws rocks around. Places motorcycles are banned, you likely will get away with it simply by being quiet, compared to a quad or motorcycle.

But you describe wanting to have a lot of power, and pedal. That is definitely possible, you will need a pedal assist that works by torque sensing, rather than the typical crude PAS that works by counting rotations of the pedal.

1000w of power is plenty for pedaling with power. 1000w is potentially 30 mph, and you can't easily gear your bike to pedal much faster. But you can go with much more if you want, and then dial it down to "legal" when you want as well.

I can sales pitch for the company I don't work for,, may I suggest this? Put this on a frame of the " stealth bomber" type, that is to say,, one built to carry a huge battery.
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-kits/crystalyte-rear-hs-kit-advanced-pas.html

Select the thun type PAS. and the 7240 GR controller.

Impossible to keep up these days,, does the stealth come with torque sensing PAS now? If so, then the stealth is still an option.
 
dogman dan said:
Select the thun type PAS. and the 7240 GR controller.
Impossible to keep up these days,, does the stealth come with torque sensing PAS now?
Click to expand...
Only problem with that is the power is approximately half the bomber he was looking at and it sounds like he's shying away from the DIY approach.
Stealth doesn't use torque sensing PAS currently - it's not possible with the gearbox they use. If you really wanted gears though then something like the thun with a standard rear derailleur would give you torque sensing PAS capabilities and a a handful of gears to chose from.

That said, am I the only one who doesn't like PAS on a heavy, high powered bike ? Sure on 200-500w bikes it's nice to have something that feels more naturally like bionic legs but when you've got 5+ kw on tap at the bump of a wrist and you're atop a 50kg/110lb it seems a little counter intuitive to me. I haven't actually used a thun with several kw though so maybe it's better ?
 
Hyena said:
That said, am I the only one who doesn't like PAS on a heavy, high powered bike ? Sure on 200-500w bikes it's nice to have something that feels more naturally like bionic legs but when you've got 5+ kw on tap at the bump of a wrist and you're atop a 50kg/110lb it seems a little counter intuitive to me. I haven't actually used a thun with several kw though so maybe it's better ?
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This is another great question, and a good point, Hyena!

Pedal assist is nothing new. Mopeds (mo-peds) used to have pedals too. This was when their engines were really wimpy (around 1hp). Then the engines became a bit more powerful, 2hp+ and all the mopeds lost their pedals.

Moped (from Wikipedia):
"The word moped is a portmanteau of "motor" and "pedal", originally coined in Sweden. Like some of the earliest two wheeled motorcycles, all mopeds were once equipped with bicycle pedals. The name "moped" has now been applied by some regional governments to vehicles without pedals, based on criteria of restricted engine displacement, speed, and/or power output. This is a misnomer, as they are no longer "mopeds" at all, and might instead be called a "noped" if they appear to look exactly like a typical moped, but no longer include pedals."

As long as there is gas in the tank, there is no need for pedals on a moped anymore. But gas can always be easily added before the ride, or bought and added later. It is a bit more difficult with the electric charge. But, as the battery technology progesses, the history is suggesting that high-power electric bicycles will also lose their pedals and become "no-peds".

Not sure where the low-power pedal assisted bicycles are heading though.

In the meantime though, modern electric bicycles still have pedals. The electric motors still need help on some uphills, and nobody wants to be pushing a bike with a dead battery back home.

Perhaps I do not want a torque sensing pedal assist after all. But I know I really hate derailers, and viciously so. They are flimsy and unreliable, they catch onto things, they collect wads of grass, they bend, and they need a constant service and adjustment. This is why I think I'd appreciate the gearbox.
 
MX Engineer said:
As long as there is gas in the tank, there is no need for pedals on a moped anymore. But gas can always be easily added before the ride, or bought and added later. It is a bit more difficult with the electric charge. But, as the battery technology progesses, the history is suggesting that high-power electric bicycles will also lose their pedals and become "no-peds".
Click to expand...
The whole fuel vs battery thing is the same for any electric powered vehicle or device but you quickly get used to what is and isn't achievable and ride within your limits. But with north of 5kw there's no need for pedals even now. If you want a moto seat and foot pegs the stealth hurricane is essentially the same bike bike, but with the bomber and 3/4 of the membership here who ride high powered bikes it's more about trying to convince the authorities you're riding a bicycle and not a motorcycle. Let's be honest, you're taking the piss riding a >100lb >10hp machine with pedals and waving to the neighbors as you politely declare you're off for a casual ride on your bicycle :lol:
Likewise trying to pedal a moped that's run out of fuel would SUCK. I'm not sure anyone in history has bought a moped with the intention of actually ever pedaling it - I suspect it's more about some sort of regulatory tick box to get them on the road with cheaper rego or no licensing requirements etc

I know if I rock into my local national park on something that looks like a dirt bike I'll get jumped on, even if it's electric and silent. But if I casually pedal past the ranger on something that looks like a downhill bike as it approaches I'll get a nod and a wave. If you're riding out in the desert with no concerns about such things and don't really care about actually pedaling the thing maybe you'd be better off with something that's much more an e-dirt bike and pretending to be a bicycle ?

Perhaps I do not want a torque sensing pedal assist after all. But I know I really hate derailers, and viciously so. They are flimsy and unreliable, they catch onto things, they collect wads of grass, they bend, and they need a constant service and adjustment. This is why I think I'd appreciate the gearbox.
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This is where the simpler 2 speed schlumpf style bottom bracket in the fighter is good too - you get 2 gears - one to pedal at normal bicycle speeds if your battery does go flat (as you said this is the end of the world!) and one to pedal at moderate speeds while the motor is doing most of the work.
 
Yes a powered "ebike" that looks like a bicycle and some fake pedaling goes a very long way.
Even if you have a very large rear hub motor, you can atleast hide that with some pannier bags.
Going with a high powered "ebike" that looks like a motorbike you will have problemo's gringo.
 
MX Engineer said:
Pedal assist is nothing new. Mopeds (mo-peds) used to have pedals too. This was when their engines were really wimpy (around 1hp). Then the engines became a bit more powerful, 2hp+ and all the mopeds lost their pedals.

Moped (from Wikipedia):
The word moped is a portmanteau of "motor" and "pedal", originally coined in Sweden. Like some of the earliest two wheeled motorcycles, all mopeds were once equipped with bicycle pedals. The name "moped" has now been applied by some regional governments to vehicles without pedals, based on criteria of restricted engine displacement, speed, and/or power output. This is a misnomer, as they are no longer "mopeds" at all, and might instead be called a "noped" if they appear to look exactly like a typical moped, but no longer include pedals.
.
Click to expand...

Originally "Mopeds" , like the Raleigh Wisp, French VeloSolex, Peugeot , Motobecane, Etc.. had pedals because they were needed to start the petrol motors.
You HAD to pedal to get going. The Honda 50 Cub changed all that in the 60's with its electric starter.
 
Hillhater said:
MX Engineer said:
Pedal assist is nothing new. Mopeds (mo-peds) used to have pedals too. This was when their engines were really wimpy (around 1hp). Then the engines became a bit more powerful, 2hp+ and all the mopeds lost their pedals.

Moped (from Wikipedia):
The word moped is a portmanteau of "motor" and "pedal", originally coined in Sweden. Like some of the earliest two wheeled motorcycles, all mopeds were once equipped with bicycle pedals. The name "moped" has now been applied by some regional governments to vehicles without pedals, based on criteria of restricted engine displacement, speed, and/or power output. This is a misnomer, as they are no longer "mopeds" at all, and might instead be called a "noped" if they appear to look exactly like a typical moped, but no longer include pedals.
.
Click to expand...

Originally "Mopeds" , like the Raleigh Wisp, French VeloSolex, Peugeot , Motobecane, Etc.. had pedals because they were needed to start the petrol motors.
You HAD to pedal to get going. The Honda 50 Cub changed all that in the 60's with its electric starter.
Click to expand...
Very true but where I lived the Honda 50 Cub required a Motorcycle license and tag because it had no pedals.
 
Hillhater said:
Originally "Mopeds" , like the Raleigh Wisp, French VeloSolex, Peugeot , Motobecane, Etc.. had pedals because they were needed to start the petrol motors.
You HAD to pedal to get going. The Honda 50 Cub changed all that in the 60's with its electric starter.
Click to expand...
Before there were mopeds with an electric starter (and the need for a battery) there were "mokicks", motor + kickstarter. This name didn't stick though, people kept calling them mopeds.
 
You have not lived until you've experienced a Stealth bomber or fighter or a properly built FUTR (stealth derivative) on a technical single tract trail!!!!!
Oh boy oh boy...... so damn fun..... 15' drop offs, 15' inclines 60 deg+...... tight corners, over logs........

Mtn bikers don't seem to care... you just need to have good judgement..... in my hood there are some really prep'd mtn bike trails.... (don't ride those).... then there are the abondoned rather in accessible old mtn bike trails.... / hog game trails....... these don't get much use.... until I come around! that is the beauty of the ebikes...... you can use your imagination and ride more remote places so it all balances out :) GL with your choic.e
 
Looks like I will be buying myself a Stealth.

I looked at other builds and kits, and I think I want the Stealth.

I consider a hub motor a plus. The unsprung mass is still nothing compared to a motorcycle. The hub motor is easily upgradeable. The hub motor makes the frame slimmer and stealthier.

The frame, upgraded American made forks, brakes, shock, rims, tires are good enough.

I will also buy a moto seat in addition to the stock one. I want to try it. I do not like crashing on bicycles, motorcycles crash so much better.

I want more than two speeds, and I do not want any bicycle derailers. The Stealth gearbox is said to be bulletproof. I want it.

I could save a few grand by putting together a similar bike from DIY kit, but kits bikes do not the same resale values as brand name bikes. Neither do they have a warranty, although I suspect I will not be needing it. Either way, over the lifetime cycle a Stealth will be cheaper.
 
Warranty is a scam, its a false positive unless you got someone like Justin at ebikes.ca who is a reasonable man, but he only sells bits not entire package on bike for legal reasons. I'd say the majority of everyone else will say anything to get you to buy their product. $11k is not worth it unless you are rich, otherwise build your own with a moto style frame and pick your own motor, like a QS 275 or MXUS 55H or TC40100 or X54xx, and rock an Adaptto controller. You could be all in for $5k and still rock out better then an $11k Stealth.

Yaaaaaa I am a cheap dude, but I prefer cheap quality. Im not poor, but I weigh my options. In the game of ebikes, dont skimp on chargers or controllers or batteries or motors or frame. Like buying a cheap RC charger instead of an iCharger and a Dell PSU from icecubes57. Like an Adaptto rather then a XieChang. Like a pack professionally built rather then LiPo's from HobbyKing. Like going over power rather then wimpy 250W scardy cats afraid of The Man. You get my drift.
 
HI Mx Engineer, I am sure the Stealth bike will be a fun ride. I think way way back when I first got looking into the electric bike world it was the Stealth that first got me thinking, wow this looks like fun I WANT ONE OF THESE. But I went the home build route because of costs ( I still think the Stealths are way over priced ) but one thing I will say for the Stealth owners experiences is there seems to be a lot of post of happy riders talking about the fun rides they have done and people talking about there adventures on their bikes rather than troubleshooting the DIY issues we all seem to struggle with. I realize this forum is all about sorting out and sharing problems and their solutions but it is refreshing to see people enjoying their bikes and actually riding them and sharing that experience.

This being said I am not a fan of DD hub motors but I think that is in part because I have not rode a DD hub fed with the higher power levels like what you most likely will end up with. I know first hand that at low levels like 52 volts, a DD is a joke on the trails at slower speeds but if you have decent power on tap (and you will) I am sure it will be a different experience for you. As I want a 65 lb bike that climbs quietly at slow speeds I am from the mid drive camp and glad to be there. My bike is less than half of the cost of the Stealth and perfect for what I want out of an ebike but my dream bike is not going to be yours.

Happy trails and keep us posted on how the new bike works for you ........wayne
 
It would be interesting if you would update this thread from time to time to let us know your experiences with the Stealth. Good luck with it and enjoy!
 
I'm sure you will be happy with your stealth. How could it possibly be no fun to ride?

Back to the trails thing,, Definitely stay off highly used mtb singletrack. It's lovingly maintained, and your bike is definitely strong enough to cut it up.

But like said above,, other trails, which may have been built by the same MTB club, may be hardly to never used. Too hard to ride, sand too deep, whatever. let er rip on those. 8)

I am just one lucky guy. There is undeveloped, unfenced property really close to my house. It's owned by a gigantic developer who heart attacked and left a legal nightmare behind.

I started out building and riding trails on that chunk of land, because the plans were to bulldoze and build on it within 2-4 years. So I just started riding out there, till trails developed. But that was 2007. Along came 2008, Cool,, now my trails can be ridden another 8-10 years. :lol: So I started actually building nicer trail. Then the guy died! Now my trails will be there to ride, one mile from my house, for my lifetime. Nobody going to fence it off, or give a shit what I do, or with what vehicle, out there now.

Anyway,, find a spot like that to rip on your new stealth. fire roads, mine roads, pole and gas line roads, or,, some guys land you and poach on. You are going to have soooo much fun!
 
@SlowCo Yes, I will keep posting about my experiences. I am not going away.

dogman dan said:
:lol: So I started actually building nicer trail. Then the guy died! Now my trails will be there to ride, one mile from my house, for my lifetime.
Click to expand...
What a success story! LOL. My cat became very happy too when the big dogs in the two neighboring housed died one right after another. But unfortunately their owners still keep kicking, so I can't take over their backyards just yet.
 
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