Jabotical
100 W
Chalo said:
Ooh, that's just the sort of slapdash hackery I find appealing. I may give it a try while I hope for a reasonable commercial solution to re-manifest.
Is there more I could be doing to avoid flats?
- Thread starter Jabotical
- Start date
Ooh, that's just the sort of slapdash hackery I find appealing. I may give it a try while I hope for a reasonable commercial solution to re-manifest.
Unfortunately you can't just glue the tubes together, because the pressure will just blwo the end open. YOu'd need to heat-seal/vulcanize the layers together, and along sufficient surface area that they wouldn't peel apart frompressure inside.
any kind of stiff tubing. I'd probably just use a piece of aluminum or steel tube off an old bike or whatever, like a section of old chainstay/seatstay, bit of metal chair leg, etc. But you coudl use a wooden dowel, or old broom handle, etc. Doesnt' matter as long as it doesnt' flop around.Jabotical said:
Doestn' need to be heavy duty. Something off an old screen door or gate hinge, etc. Just has to pull it forward to vertical again after any bumps push it back, as fast as possible.
Chalo
100 TW
amberwolf said:
Remember that the overlapped ends of the tube are compressing each other when inflated. I think as long as the inside of the glued end is cleaned of powder and mold release compound, then glued with cold vulcanizing patch glue and clamped together overnight, that would do it. As it is, a proper patch job can't be peeled off without tearing the tube once it's been under tire pressure for a day. Same glue, same prep, plus prolonged clamping should yield the same sort of result.
That's good to know...but I have had patches that I am sure I did right, and thought were good, peel from the inside out, a few times (from what defect or failure of my technique, I don't know).
I guess it'd have to be "bench tested" thoroughly before I'd trust a tube glued like that.
I guess it'd have to be "bench tested" thoroughly before I'd trust a tube glued like that.
Alan B
100 GW
I was thinking along the same lines as Chalo (how often does that happen ), if the tube was long enough to overlap for a couple of tube diameters, and the joints were PROPERLY cemented, it would very likely work fine, and at a fairly reasonable cost. There would be an out of balance condition, but this is a much better alternative than the long walk home. Perhaps run half pressure just to reduce the stress.
), if the tube was long enough to overlap for a couple of tube diameters, and the joints were PROPERLY cemented, it would very likely work fine, and at a fairly reasonable cost. There would be an out of balance condition, but this is a much better alternative than the long walk home. Perhaps run half pressure just to reduce the stress.Jabotical
100 W
Yeah, and I would say it's also a better alternative than the 30-minute adjust-my-handlebars-so-I-can-flip-my-bike-over-so-I-can-undo-and-redo-a-dozen-bolts-to-remove-and-replace-my-wheel procedure.Alan B said:
It is also a better alternative than calling my wife and asking her to come get me. She's perfectly willing and nice about it, but it feels like admitting defeat (and I hate to inconvenience her). Plus the wait could be considerable, depending on the timing -- and it can be hot out there.
I'm thinking my approach next time will be:
1) Try to patch tube without taking wheel off.
2) If that fails, use a Gaadi/Cobra-type tube to get me home (tying the ruptured tube to the frame), so I can do the full annoying replacement procedure more comfortably (in the A/C!), with better tools.
3) If the Gaadi/Cobra tube has problems, replace with a conventional tube after all.
I mean, why not carry one of each around, eh?
I've already grown to be a bit paranoid...
Alan B
100 GW
It may be important to cut the tube at a 45 degree angle and cement it that way, there's no room for a perpendicular flat seam the flattened tube width, but something more longitudinal might work. Think about the geometry of the cemented end and the way it must fit and be supported to help hold pressure.
The fingers
10 TW
People used to put a curved, trailing wire loop over the tire supposedly to catch objects and whisk them away before they became embedded enough to cause a loss of air. I don't know how effective they were at doing that because I never tried it. :|
Jabotical
100 W
Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. The commercially produced Gaadi/Cobra tubes can maybe get away with making abrupt surface edges, but I wouldn't be confident about that myself. 45 degree-ish definitely seems the way to go.Alan B said:
2old said:
Awesome! I look forward to hearing your report.
Jabotical
100 W
Thrilling Update:
Ebike commute day 1: Rear flat (cause uncertain).
Ebike commute day 10: Rear flat (due to one-too-many evil long thorns).
Ebike commute day 14: Rear flat (due to nail).
Ebike commute day 21: Rear flat (small opening at seam)
I didn't have an extra tube with me for the previous flat, so a nice passing Canadian biker man gave me one. He warned me he'd been carrying it around for years, and it wasn't necessarily that great of quality to begin with. He suggested I change it out as soon as I got home. I of course ignored this advice (thinking: new thick tubes and slime don't seem to help that much, so why not roll with an old thin tube, heh -- and hey, I got more days out of it than the last thick slime-filled tube).
I was sure I must have gotten punctured again, but instead it looked like the tube simply opened up a tiny hole at a seam. I guess because it was so old/cheap? I didn't know that was something to have to worry about.
Fortunately the pre-glued Park Tool GP-2 patch I had worked impeccably (and conveniently)! It was a completely different experience than trying to use multiple pre-glued Bell patches from the kit I'd had last time. I can definitely endorse this fine, affordable product, at least from my one experience. Even though I had to put it on (obviously) over the seam, it held air perfectly all the way home, overnight, and 11 miles back to work (tomorrow I'll put a better tube in, I reckon).
I only wished I'd already had my 12v air compressor rigged up.
I also need to just admit I'm going to be flipping my bike onto its back on a semi-routine basis, and figure out a way to make that work conveniently with all the crap on the handlebars and with my cargo rack (the shoddy collapsible milk crate I'd had on there did not survive the process this time). I would have liked to do the discovery, patching and pumping without flipping the bike, but eventually I gave up -- is anyone else able to make that work (and what's your secret?), or does everyone just turn over their bikes? Some of you have real heavy beasts, no?
Ebike commute day 1: Rear flat (cause uncertain).
Ebike commute day 10: Rear flat (due to one-too-many evil long thorns).
Ebike commute day 14: Rear flat (due to nail).
Ebike commute day 21: Rear flat (small opening at seam)
I didn't have an extra tube with me for the previous flat, so a nice passing Canadian biker man gave me one. He warned me he'd been carrying it around for years, and it wasn't necessarily that great of quality to begin with. He suggested I change it out as soon as I got home. I of course ignored this advice (thinking: new thick tubes and slime don't seem to help that much, so why not roll with an old thin tube, heh -- and hey, I got more days out of it than the last thick slime-filled tube).
I was sure I must have gotten punctured again, but instead it looked like the tube simply opened up a tiny hole at a seam. I guess because it was so old/cheap? I didn't know that was something to have to worry about.
Fortunately the pre-glued Park Tool GP-2 patch I had worked impeccably (and conveniently)! It was a completely different experience than trying to use multiple pre-glued Bell patches from the kit I'd had last time. I can definitely endorse this fine, affordable product, at least from my one experience. Even though I had to put it on (obviously) over the seam, it held air perfectly all the way home, overnight, and 11 miles back to work (tomorrow I'll put a better tube in, I reckon).
I only wished I'd already had my 12v air compressor rigged up.
I also need to just admit I'm going to be flipping my bike onto its back on a semi-routine basis, and figure out a way to make that work conveniently with all the crap on the handlebars and with my cargo rack (the shoddy collapsible milk crate I'd had on there did not survive the process this time). I would have liked to do the discovery, patching and pumping without flipping the bike, but eventually I gave up -- is anyone else able to make that work (and what's your secret?), or does everyone just turn over their bikes? Some of you have real heavy beasts, no?
Alan B
100 GW
Perhaps a centerstand type kickstand, instead of turnover?
Jabotical
100 W
Fascinating! That looks incredibly convenient! I'm definitely gonna get me one of those. Looks like the Crow ones come highly recommended, I think I'll go ahead and order one.Alan B said:
I used a centerstand on DayGlo avenger, my most recent "normal" style ebike. Helped a fair bit.
At first I used a center stand on CrazyBike2, but even custom made out of a chainystay section and gate hingnes, it still ripped loose from the frame one day....bike just too heavy for that design. Now I just use the cargo pods to lean it on, or if I have to I lay it on it's side. Not possible ot flip it upside down, with the canopy now, and not really possible for me to do it before unless at home.
Li-ghtcycle previously had a bike that had side cargo pods that used pieces form either crutches or a walker that ere downward extensible and latchable with t he little pushbuttons to hold the bike upright for working on it or laoding up the pods, etc. Should be in one of his therads from a few years ago.
At first I used a center stand on CrazyBike2, but even custom made out of a chainystay section and gate hingnes, it still ripped loose from the frame one day....bike just too heavy for that design. Now I just use the cargo pods to lean it on, or if I have to I lay it on it's side. Not possible ot flip it upside down, with the canopy now, and not really possible for me to do it before unless at home.
Li-ghtcycle previously had a bike that had side cargo pods that used pieces form either crutches or a walker that ere downward extensible and latchable with t he little pushbuttons to hold the bike upright for working on it or laoding up the pods, etc. Should be in one of his therads from a few years ago.
Jabotical
100 W
amberwolf, your rigs are insane, and I find them marvelous. I didn't realize CrazyBike2 included a canopy, but I approve. I don't know how you flip it upside down even at home.
You know, I tried laying my bike on its side this last time, and pretty much all I managed to do was get dirt in everything. I guess my technique was suffering (and I didn't have a good level surface either)
Yeah I'm really looking forward to trying the centerstand. I think it will make a huge difference for me, since being able to investigate/access/spin the wheels has been the hardest part about flats. Plus it will be usable even back in the garage!
Li-ghtycle's custom solution is really cool for his application. Overkill for mine, but that doesn't stop me from admiring it.
You know, I tried laying my bike on its side this last time, and pretty much all I managed to do was get dirt in everything. I guess my technique was suffering (and I didn't have a good level surface either)
Yeah I'm really looking forward to trying the centerstand. I think it will make a huge difference for me, since being able to investigate/access/spin the wheels has been the hardest part about flats. Plus it will be usable even back in the garage!
Li-ghtycle's custom solution is really cool for his application. Overkill for mine, but that doesn't stop me from admiring it.
Can't believe there's only like one realistic post about solid tires.
The ONLY good argument I can find against the latest types with advanced foam polymers is this one:
compared to pneumatic tires they do have about as much damping but do not have as much shock absorption from bit hits.
And that can be addressed by using a full suspension frame as many ebikers are already doing.
You know I think a lot of people are just scared of stepping out of their comfort zone and trying something new to really see what's up on a ebike that's already really good like a FS frame.
The ONLY good argument I can find against the latest types with advanced foam polymers is this one:
compared to pneumatic tires they do have about as much damping but do not have as much shock absorption from bit hits.
And that can be addressed by using a full suspension frame as many ebikers are already doing.
You know I think a lot of people are just scared of stepping out of their comfort zone and trying something new to really see what's up on a ebike that's already really good like a FS frame.
Chalo
100 TW
Foam tires defeat the chief engineering advantage of pneumatic tires: Instead of suspending the wheel in an air bag where it is comparatively isolated from shocks, they point load the wheels on every single bump. The section of rim immediately over the contract point must take the entire load. This not only gives them a terrible ride quality, it literally beats the wheels apart.
Pneumatic wheels are inconvenient. We know. If there really were something better, don't you think we'd all be using it? It's not like nobody ever thought of using solid rubber tires. Those came long before pneumatics, and they were superseded because they suck.
P.S. -
You overestimate the effectiveness of suspension. If you doubt it, get a couple of junk wheels and try them on a fully suspended bike with no tires. Apart from the traction shortcomings, you'll find the ride horribly uncomfortable, even on a smooth surface.
Pneumatic wheels are inconvenient. We know. If there really were something better, don't you think we'd all be using it? It's not like nobody ever thought of using solid rubber tires. Those came long before pneumatics, and they were superseded because they suck.
P.S. -
You overestimate the effectiveness of suspension. If you doubt it, get a couple of junk wheels and try them on a fully suspended bike with no tires. Apart from the traction shortcomings, you'll find the ride horribly uncomfortable, even on a smooth surface.
TheBeastie
1 MW
I was going to ask where are your URLs.. but I decided to start googling around.. Turns out there is a mob from Korea called Tannus who have solid tires for designed bicycles.terminus said:
I don't actually get many flats but I am interested in it anyway front the point of view of having a hard tire that could improve rolling efficiency..
The website: http://www.tannus.com/ UK one looks exactly the same? http://www.tannus.co.uk/
The youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAh9kHaNZ_gJRQbnaa4bqVw/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHiD_iyxLxc
Tannus Tire on youtube.. over 1500 hits of videos to watch https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Tannus+Tire
Their most convicing video
[youtube]fr0Wy5J4NoI[/youtube]
Chalo
100 TW
Racers were the first adopters of pneumatic tires because they were so much faster than solid tires.
Rolling resistance in a tire comes from flexing rubber. Replace most of the rubber with air and to don't have to flex as much of it.
Even the best foam tires, like Bayer's high rebound stuff for wheelchairs, have more rolling resistance than pneumatics, both inside the tire and from transmitted shocks.
Rolling resistance in a tire comes from flexing rubber. Replace most of the rubber with air and to don't have to flex as much of it.
Even the best foam tires, like Bayer's high rebound stuff for wheelchairs, have more rolling resistance than pneumatics, both inside the tire and from transmitted shocks.
Paladin
100 W
Anyone mention these?
http://mrtuffy.com/
Something else...I gave myself a couple flats pinching the tube with the tire tool, park tool.
Using Pedros now. No more self made flats.
http://pedros.com/products/tools/wheel-and-tire/tire-levers/
http://mrtuffy.com/
Something else...I gave myself a couple flats pinching the tube with the tire tool, park tool.
Using Pedros now. No more self made flats.
http://pedros.com/products/tools/wheel-and-tire/tire-levers/
Chalo
100 TW
Paladin said:
I fix a lot of flats caused by those things. They chafe the tube at the edges and ends of the strip, eventually causing leaks.
Whether they prevent more flats than they cause is probably a matter of the specific hazards you face on your rides.
It's a better option to get a tire that has a breaker belt like that built into the casing, so it offers whatever protection it can without causing other problems.
Alternately, if you *really* have to use a specific tire that doesnt' have that, for whatever reason, *and* you really have to use liners like that, then you could protect your actual tube by taking an old tube you don't need anymore, removing the valve stem, then slitting it along the inner circumference, fitting it over the actual tube to be used inside the tire, then fitting the liner between the tire adn that slit tube.
It also gives you a bit more thickness of tube total, but it also adds more weight and stiffens the tire/tube so it doesn't ride as nice as it would without. :/
Iv'e used this on Yogi's trailer (Flatbed MkIV) and so far it's done a good job (since I often can't avoid the crap on the road edges with the trailer wheels, even if I can with the bike or trike pulling it...and it sucks to fix a flat on a trailer loaded up with a wiggly St. Bernard, or a heavy load of cargo. :/ So whatever I can do to not have to do that, is good).
Sometimes...it doesn't help anyway, though--while I hadn't done this to the smaller MkIII trailer I used for groceries today, just had regular tire and thick tube, I didnt' get a normal flat--the valve stem just blew off the tube, presumably from a defect in it. I have had rotation of tire/tube (on powered or drive wheels on bike and trike) cause this before, so I have a habit of checking before every leg of every trip to ensure proper airing up and perpendicularity of valve stem. It was fine on both trailer wheels when I left the store, but due to traffic and the heavily laden trailer I couldnt' avoid various bad sections of road edge, and some of them banged that wheel (right side) pretty hard.
I don't know if one of the impacts perhaps weakened the valve stem at the defect point (immediately below where the brass tube would have ended), maybe herniated it, I dunno--couldn't find the blown-off stem afterward. :/ But it didnt' blow until about a half mile from the house, afer I'd passed all the problematic road edge areas. I didnt' hear it but I felt the sudden change in drag, and saw the power increase on the CA. Stopped and found the stub of the stem still aligned with the rim's hole for it, so I don't think (but don't know for sure) that the stem came off *after* the blowout, I think it *was* the blowout.
But to knwo for sure I'd have to glue on another valve stem, then inflate the tube and check for leaks. I didnt' find any punctures or marks on the tube in an examination when I got home and unloaded the hundred-plus pounds of groceries/etc., and got the tire off.
It also gives you a bit more thickness of tube total, but it also adds more weight and stiffens the tire/tube so it doesn't ride as nice as it would without. :/
Iv'e used this on Yogi's trailer (Flatbed MkIV) and so far it's done a good job (since I often can't avoid the crap on the road edges with the trailer wheels, even if I can with the bike or trike pulling it...and it sucks to fix a flat on a trailer loaded up with a wiggly St. Bernard, or a heavy load of cargo. :/ So whatever I can do to not have to do that, is good).
Sometimes...it doesn't help anyway, though--while I hadn't done this to the smaller MkIII trailer I used for groceries today, just had regular tire and thick tube, I didnt' get a normal flat--the valve stem just blew off the tube, presumably from a defect in it. I have had rotation of tire/tube (on powered or drive wheels on bike and trike) cause this before, so I have a habit of checking before every leg of every trip to ensure proper airing up and perpendicularity of valve stem. It was fine on both trailer wheels when I left the store, but due to traffic and the heavily laden trailer I couldnt' avoid various bad sections of road edge, and some of them banged that wheel (right side) pretty hard.
I don't know if one of the impacts perhaps weakened the valve stem at the defect point (immediately below where the brass tube would have ended), maybe herniated it, I dunno--couldn't find the blown-off stem afterward. :/ But it didnt' blow until about a half mile from the house, afer I'd passed all the problematic road edge areas. I didnt' hear it but I felt the sudden change in drag, and saw the power increase on the CA. Stopped and found the stub of the stem still aligned with the rim's hole for it, so I don't think (but don't know for sure) that the stem came off *after* the blowout, I think it *was* the blowout.
But to knwo for sure I'd have to glue on another valve stem, then inflate the tube and check for leaks. I didnt' find any punctures or marks on the tube in an examination when I got home and unloaded the hundred-plus pounds of groceries/etc., and got the tire off.
Jabotical
100 W
So how did you get the trailer the remaining 1/2 mile home, amberwolf? Seems like >100 pounds of groceries would make it dicey to just keep pushing forward on a blown out wheel, no?
I just kept riding like normal--other than the higher power usage and the sound of the tire/tube thumping around the wheel, there wasnt' much difference from normal.
I didn't really have a lot of choice--the best I could've done was to move some of the heavy stuff into the cargo pods on the bike itself (I had light stuff in there and heavy on trailer), and move one of the coolers to strap down across the top of the pods, with the heaviest cold stuff in that. But it would've taken a whole lot longer to move that stuff all around than just to go home, or to just unload the trailer enough to easily get the wheel off and change the tube for the spare. (I really need to carry a spare wheel on it instead, like I do on the newer MkIV trailer).
I didn't really have a lot of choice--the best I could've done was to move some of the heavy stuff into the cargo pods on the bike itself (I had light stuff in there and heavy on trailer), and move one of the coolers to strap down across the top of the pods, with the heaviest cold stuff in that. But it would've taken a whole lot longer to move that stuff all around than just to go home, or to just unload the trailer enough to easily get the wheel off and change the tube for the spare. (I really need to carry a spare wheel on it instead, like I do on the newer MkIV trailer).
Jabotical
100 W
I suppose that makes sense -- especially since the trailer has another wheel in parallel, presumably. It's a different situation than, say, a traditional bicycle rear wheel.
Still, good thing you weren't too far from home, had enough power, and weren't driven crazy by the thumping sounds
Still, good thing you weren't too far from home, had enough power, and weren't driven crazy by the thumping sounds
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