megacycle
100 kW
If you've got an adjustable PSU, could fire it up as is and test it.
jonescg's NEW electric racebike BUILD thread!
- Thread starter jonescg
- Start date
jonescg
100 MW
I've tested it and everything except the timer works. All of the relays anc contactors open and close as planned, and the LEDs light up as they are supposed to. Except the timer doesn't really delay the main contactor opening. I have probably muffed soldering something along the way, but really I just want confirmation that the 555 timer circuit is correct. The electrolytic cap is 100 uF and the resistor for restricting the flow is 47k - giving it about 5.5 seconds to close.
megacycle
100 kW
Have to look back to see what set up for the 555 your using, been a while, but i think most arrangents are not simply CR, a different formula for timing.
megacycle
100 kW
Seems to me, same as circuit 2 of the link to AW's timer circuits link.
Decoupling cap value should'nt matter much?, what value is it.
Decoupling cap value should'nt matter much?, what value is it.
megacycle
100 kW
Following AW's link to that 555 site all checks out with the values in the monostable formula as just over 5 secs, though it says go for low R & high C values, due to cap leakage values.
Tis the Fri night b4 Christmas.
Tis the Fri night b4 Christmas.
jonescg
100 MW
It works!
Well, there is one minor problem. You might notice that the relays have the NO and NC positions mixed up. So when I first made the circuit board up, everything was working in reverse :lol:
The solution is to solder everything except the 555 IC on the reverse side of the board. There is a downside; you can't see the text to guide you as to where you need to attach what. This caused a short circuit, lifting up some trace :x Still, I managed to salvage it, and once coated in epoxy it will work well. I won't use this board on the bike though; I'll make a fresh one. Good thing I got 6 boards made :wink:
With everything off:
Turning the key ON:
Notice that the half pack LED isn't illuminated - this is because I don't have a contactor with auxiliary leads. I'll pick one up tomorrow.
Then about 5.5 seconds later:
All LEDs except the charge LED are lit (just pretend the half one is lit :wink: ).
Then when it comes time to charge, you plug in, completing the charge enable circuit:
The main and half contactors are open, quarter contactors are closed, and the LED is lit saying you need to be patient
.
I didn't photograph it, but if the key is on and the main is closed, completing the charge enable circuit causes the main and half to open, quarters to close. Like it was supposed to
Only thing I need to do is decide on a precharge duration. If I go for some big resistors of 1kR, I should have it over in 2 seconds.
Thanks Dmitrii - the boards look the goods!
Well, there is one minor problem. You might notice that the relays have the NO and NC positions mixed up. So when I first made the circuit board up, everything was working in reverse :lol:
The solution is to solder everything except the 555 IC on the reverse side of the board. There is a downside; you can't see the text to guide you as to where you need to attach what. This caused a short circuit, lifting up some trace :x Still, I managed to salvage it, and once coated in epoxy it will work well. I won't use this board on the bike though; I'll make a fresh one. Good thing I got 6 boards made :wink:
With everything off:
Turning the key ON:
Notice that the half pack LED isn't illuminated - this is because I don't have a contactor with auxiliary leads. I'll pick one up tomorrow.
Then about 5.5 seconds later:
All LEDs except the charge LED are lit (just pretend the half one is lit :wink: ).
Then when it comes time to charge, you plug in, completing the charge enable circuit:
The main and half contactors are open, quarter contactors are closed, and the LED is lit saying you need to be patient
.I didn't photograph it, but if the key is on and the main is closed, completing the charge enable circuit causes the main and half to open, quarters to close. Like it was supposed to
Only thing I need to do is decide on a precharge duration. If I go for some big resistors of 1kR, I should have it over in 2 seconds.
Thanks Dmitrii - the boards look the goods!
grindz145
1 MW
Nice! Did Dmitrii lay out the board for you or did you lay it out? In any event not bad for a biologist, not bad at all :wink:
jonescg
100 MW
grindz145 said:
Dmitrii for sure. You saw my earlier efforts up there with MS Paint :lol: I did eventually get the logic with a bit of help from some friends, but the software to drive it was over my head. I'm no longer an employed biologist, so this could be my new forte
I'm going to take the plunge and order the high voltage relay from Gigavac. Stupidly expensive, but guaranteed to work. I can then complete all of the 12 V control electronics for the battery pack and start to fabricate the 700 V beast
jonescg
100 MW
Holy shit, another progress update!!
Today I decided to finish the main control box. This box contains the final 700 V cables, main contactor, precharge and discharge resistors, high voltage relay to drive said resistors, the 500 A shunt, charge leads, and of course the relay logic board to drive it all.
I found Altronics made a 220 mm by 165 mm box, which was 90 mm deep. Perfect fit, however it was going to be difficult to fit everything in and maintain isolation. So the trick was to use three sheets of 0.8 mm G10-FR4 board glued together to mount the shunt, main contactor and high voltage relay to. The nuts easily foul the base of the box, so I had to cut the bolts as short as possible to ensure they fit snugly.
There wasn't enough room for the 12 V relay logic, so I had a brain wave - double stack! Jaycar sells 32 mm nylon spacers for M3 screws which were exactly the right distance to mount a finger-proof G10-FR4 board to. It clears the main contactor and shunt but leaves enough room to mount the relay logic board.
I had to epoxy the nuts to the mounting board so I can unscrew everything to bolt down the high voltage lugs etc, then screw it all back again. This box will be covered by the tank cover, but I want to ensure it's water proof. So I bought some honking great big cable glands and mounted them through 25 mm holes. Dremmels are awesome tools! The cover is clear, so you can see shit just as it happens.
This will mount vertically on the back of the battery box, between the rider's balls and the pack. There will be a fibreglass tank cover in between though
Two more glands need to go into the top (charge leads and the 12 V coil wiring) and one more at the bottom (charge leads and charge enable). I need to mount a waterproof multi-pin plug for the 12 V power supply, ammeter leads, voltmeter leads (hopefully I can get a panel meter to do this at at a much safer voltage) and all of the LEDs for indicating the status of each contactor. These could plausibly be soldered directly to the board since the thing is clear, but you can't see it through the tank cover. I think they will look good on the dash
Getting there. Randy says the CNC'd billets shoud be ready for the frame next week, so work can start on putting it all together. Hopefully shipping a frame over here won't kill the budget, because the front end, fairings and wheels sure will :lol:
Today I decided to finish the main control box. This box contains the final 700 V cables, main contactor, precharge and discharge resistors, high voltage relay to drive said resistors, the 500 A shunt, charge leads, and of course the relay logic board to drive it all.
I found Altronics made a 220 mm by 165 mm box, which was 90 mm deep. Perfect fit, however it was going to be difficult to fit everything in and maintain isolation. So the trick was to use three sheets of 0.8 mm G10-FR4 board glued together to mount the shunt, main contactor and high voltage relay to. The nuts easily foul the base of the box, so I had to cut the bolts as short as possible to ensure they fit snugly.
There wasn't enough room for the 12 V relay logic, so I had a brain wave - double stack! Jaycar sells 32 mm nylon spacers for M3 screws which were exactly the right distance to mount a finger-proof G10-FR4 board to. It clears the main contactor and shunt but leaves enough room to mount the relay logic board.
I had to epoxy the nuts to the mounting board so I can unscrew everything to bolt down the high voltage lugs etc, then screw it all back again. This box will be covered by the tank cover, but I want to ensure it's water proof. So I bought some honking great big cable glands and mounted them through 25 mm holes. Dremmels are awesome tools! The cover is clear, so you can see shit just as it happens.
This will mount vertically on the back of the battery box, between the rider's balls and the pack. There will be a fibreglass tank cover in between though
Two more glands need to go into the top (charge leads and the 12 V coil wiring) and one more at the bottom (charge leads and charge enable). I need to mount a waterproof multi-pin plug for the 12 V power supply, ammeter leads, voltmeter leads (hopefully I can get a panel meter to do this at at a much safer voltage) and all of the LEDs for indicating the status of each contactor. These could plausibly be soldered directly to the board since the thing is clear, but you can't see it through the tank cover
. I think they will look good on the dash Getting there. Randy says the CNC'd billets shoud be ready for the frame next week, so work can start on putting it all together. Hopefully shipping a frame over here won't kill the budget, because the front end, fairings and wheels sure will :lol:
jonescg
100 MW
Getting exciting! Randy sent me some CNC pr0n to admire
I hope to finish the main control box this weekend. I can't fit the charge leads inside the box, so I will have to run them from the outside of the main pack.
I hope to finish the main control box this weekend. I can't fit the charge leads inside the box, so I will have to run them from the outside of the main pack.
jonescg said:Getting exciting! Randy sent me some CNC pr0n to admire
I hope to finish the main control box this weekend. I can't fit the charge leads inside the box, so I will have to run them from the outside of the main pack.
Nice parts, looks very professional
Are there any news about your stolen racebike?
jonescg
100 MW
No, but the guy has had a few court dates. I will call the cop tomorrow to find out the latest. I doubt that dross like this will ever repay me or even pay his fines. Instead he might go to prison at great expense to the state :x
grindz145
1 MW
Jesus. H. Christ. That is a work of Art!
jonescg
100 MW
Yeah Troy, Randy has got this design perfect I think. He's using Voltron-Evo as the first of the third generation bimetallic frames. The 450s they make are awesome, but this one needed to be redesigned to suit 200 kg machines like 1000 cc sportsbikes and heavy electrics
In other news, I just dropped some cash on two 2 kW battery chargers! They are tuned to 350 VDC and should put out 8 amps. I can charge two half packs at once using the charger logic, and if I fiddle with the voltage divider I can trim the output down to suit the shitty power supplies at most racetracks.
I still haven't decided on an onboard LVC or appropriate HVC. The rules say I need one, but man space is seriously tight on this bike. I will be bulk charging to 4.17 V per cell so the risk of something going bad at charge is a bit lower, but I really need an onboard LVC. Tough when you have 168 of the bastards to monitor.
In other news, I just dropped some cash on two 2 kW battery chargers! They are tuned to 350 VDC and should put out 8 amps. I can charge two half packs at once using the charger logic, and if I fiddle with the voltage divider I can trim the output down to suit the shitty power supplies at most racetracks.
I still haven't decided on an onboard LVC or appropriate HVC. The rules say I need one, but man space is seriously tight on this bike. I will be bulk charging to 4.17 V per cell so the risk of something going bad at charge is a bit lower, but I really need an onboard LVC. Tough when you have 168 of the bastards to monitor.
Rodney64
100 kW
Good to see you're progressing Chris. I'm on holiday at the moment so may pop around next week.
jonescg
100 MW
Sounds good Rodney. Be nice to catch up now the worst of the heat is over.
Finally got the HV relay. It's the size of a spark plug with the ceramic bit chopped off. $275 but hopefully it will be worth it.
I soldered the HV wires on and hooked them up to the contactor / shunt.
Unfortunately the charge wires don't fit with the relay in the way, so I have conceded defeat and will run them straight out of the main pack.
Now as for wires coming out of the box, there are the two main HV wires in and out top and bottom. Then there are the three 12 V supply wires (unswitched positive, switched positive and negative). I also need to make a voltage divider using my 14 W resistors and fit it to the bottom of the box, then run the leads from this out to a panel mounted socket. This will also have the ammeter leads going to it. As these are all attached to the HV system they are orange and rated for it, as well as insulated in that woven tube stuff. Finally the LEDs need to plug into a multi-pin panel mounted plug. Hard to find a weather proof one which would work well, but a D-sub 9 should suffice.
I am planning on using my severance pay to cover the rolling chassis and the battery box minus the cells. After that I'll really need a job
Finally got the HV relay. It's the size of a spark plug with the ceramic bit chopped off. $275 but hopefully it will be worth it.
I soldered the HV wires on and hooked them up to the contactor / shunt.
Unfortunately the charge wires don't fit with the relay in the way, so I have conceded defeat and will run them straight out of the main pack.
Now as for wires coming out of the box, there are the two main HV wires in and out top and bottom. Then there are the three 12 V supply wires (unswitched positive, switched positive and negative). I also need to make a voltage divider using my 14 W resistors and fit it to the bottom of the box, then run the leads from this out to a panel mounted socket. This will also have the ammeter leads going to it. As these are all attached to the HV system they are orange and rated for it, as well as insulated in that woven tube stuff. Finally the LEDs need to plug into a multi-pin panel mounted plug. Hard to find a weather proof one which would work well, but a D-sub 9 should suffice.
I am planning on using my severance pay to cover the rolling chassis and the battery box minus the cells. After that I'll really need a job
megacycle
100 kW
jonescg said:
24 cellogs
Nuts&Volts
100 W
Orion will go up to 180s cells...but pretty good chunk of change. VT TTXGP team uses them I do believe
http://www.orionbms.com/products/orion-bms-extended/
http://www.orionbms.com/products/orion-bms-extended/
jonescg
100 MW
That looks perfect for the CRX, but too big for the bike
Any other options you can think of? I've been hassling Rod to come up with a really compact version of his EV-Power BMS but I think he's too busy. Most BMS units are designed with cars in mind so they go a bit bigger to allow for better thermal management etc.
Any other options you can think of? I've been hassling Rod to come up with a really compact version of his EV-Power BMS but I think he's too busy. Most BMS units are designed with cars in mind so they go a bit bigger to allow for better thermal management etc.
Nuts&Volts
100 W
jonescg said:That looks perfect for the CRX, but too big for the bike
Any other options you can think of? I've been hassling Rod to come up with a really compact version of his EV-Power BMS but I think he's too busy. Most BMS units are designed with cars in mind so they go a bit bigger to allow for better thermal management etc.
I understand what you mean about space, we are having so much fun fitting all of our OSU parts. What are you putting in the nose of our bike? Don't underestimate the amount of room there. Our BMS main and 12V battery are going in the nose.
One option may be for you to use our OSU BMS system. Currently we have 12s boards that are about $35 in parts. We might even be able to help you make a single giant board or two that does a lot more cells. This could allow you to optimize the shape and size and would be cheaper because the connectors are one of more expense parts. We think assembly of our 10-12s boards will be about 30hours so it's possible for a single person to do it. I'll talk to my team more thou, because I am not the expert on this system (and don't want commit something I can't). Chip can handle up to 196s systems and we have it all programmed.
jonescg
100 MW
Hmmm. I'm open to all options.
Ideally the BMS will fit inside the top of my battery pack but the space is tight. I'd say I have about 260 mm by 200 mm and about 40 mm high. Yes, that's very tight but it would fit within the battery, making it super neat. I can double stack boards, so it might be possible to accommodate 168 cells worth of monitoring.
Also, the four blocks of cells (42s each) will all have a 43 pin plug coming up from it to the BMS. So ideally four male connectors (two on the left, two on the right).
Ideally the BMS will fit inside the top of my battery pack but the space is tight. I'd say I have about 260 mm by 200 mm and about 40 mm high. Yes, that's very tight but it would fit within the battery, making it super neat. I can double stack boards, so it might be possible to accommodate 168 cells worth of monitoring.
Also, the four blocks of cells (42s each) will all have a 43 pin plug coming up from it to the BMS. So ideally four male connectors (two on the left, two on the right).
jonescg
100 MW
Hi Guys,
Dan (aka Ripperton) phones me up and says he's got his bike pulling like a train. So he's inspired me to pull out all stops and get my bike close to looking like a bike in the short term. I have almost finished the main control box, with the exception of sorting something out for the voltage monitoring. I have a shunt which can be used for current sensing, but not coulomb counting. So Neville on the AEVA forum has devised a neat little panel meter which JUST counts coloumbs and is powered by the auxiliary and a hall active current sensor which goes around one of the cables.
Justin has also been working on a CA hack to make it handle 700 joules per coloumb, but I will still need to create a voltage divider which is isolated from everything else. I eventually wrote to Rinehart and asked how they suggest I monitor volts, and they suggested I get an AIM dashboard and plug it into the controller. Not cheap, but a shitload easier. I will still use the CA for the CRX conversion though.
The battery box design is almost finished. It will look like this:
The covers will be made from 3 mm polycarbonate and siliconed in to keep the water out. The 60 mm cavity is where the contactors and fuses go, while the 44 mm cavity is where the centralised battery monitoring circuitry goes. Still not sure what to do here, but a distributed system with monitoring plugs is most likely.
4 blocks of cells will slide in like magazines and bolt in. And we're almost ready to fabricate!
Edit - added labelled diagram
Dan (aka Ripperton) phones me up and says he's got his bike pulling like a train. So he's inspired me to pull out all stops and get my bike close to looking like a bike in the short term. I have almost finished the main control box, with the exception of sorting something out for the voltage monitoring. I have a shunt which can be used for current sensing, but not coulomb counting. So Neville on the AEVA forum has devised a neat little panel meter which JUST counts coloumbs and is powered by the auxiliary and a hall active current sensor which goes around one of the cables.
Justin has also been working on a CA hack to make it handle 700 joules per coloumb, but I will still need to create a voltage divider which is isolated from everything else. I eventually wrote to Rinehart and asked how they suggest I monitor volts, and they suggested I get an AIM dashboard and plug it into the controller. Not cheap, but a shitload easier. I will still use the CA for the CRX conversion though.
The battery box design is almost finished. It will look like this:
The covers will be made from 3 mm polycarbonate and siliconed in to keep the water out. The 60 mm cavity is where the contactors and fuses go, while the 44 mm cavity is where the centralised battery monitoring circuitry goes. Still not sure what to do here, but a distributed system with monitoring plugs is most likely.
4 blocks of cells will slide in like magazines and bolt in. And we're almost ready to fabricate!
Edit - added labelled diagram
bigmoose
1 MW
What voltage set points are you looking at for your HVC/LVC limits?
jonescg
100 MW
Hi Dave,
I think an LVC (warning) would be good at 3.5 V and the HVC would be ideal at anything above 4.25 V. My man Rod Dilkes makes these little balance bleeders which are currently set for LiFePO4, but it's not hard to set them for LiCo chemistry. They don't have any LVC/HVC circuitry on them, but they do bleed 200 mA if the voltage is above the Vmax for the cell. I'm hoping he can re-jig his modules so that they can be made to fit on my packs.
I think an LVC (warning) would be good at 3.5 V and the HVC would be ideal at anything above 4.25 V. My man Rod Dilkes makes these little balance bleeders which are currently set for LiFePO4, but it's not hard to set them for LiCo chemistry. They don't have any LVC/HVC circuitry on them, but they do bleed 200 mA if the voltage is above the Vmax for the cell. I'm hoping he can re-jig his modules so that they can be made to fit on my packs.
heathyoung
100 kW
I've had some good results with the Cell-Log drain balancers I've been making - 12S at the moment, but being expanded to 44S Lifepo4 for the Vectrix very shortly. Give me a yell if you are interested, I'm probably doing another run so will be redesigning the boards to make them more compact. You would need 4 lots of the 44S boards I am making - thats a lot of cell-Logs! 24 - woah! I thought my 6 was silly. The point of the drain balancers was to ensure that they didn't unbalance the cells they are mesasuring.
260 X 200 X 40 - yeah I think I could be able to make that fit OK. So maximum size would be 260X50 and 4 of. Probably doable.
260 X 200 X 40 - yeah I think I could be able to make that fit OK. So maximum size would be 260X50 and 4 of. Probably doable.
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