Landyachtz TopSpeed 90mm 10S4P DualRearDrive

hey guys, checking back after 3 months of pretty heavy use of my topspeed. think I ran it for about 500km now, at least 25 (partial) charges.

LG 18650 HG2: while Im overall disappointed about the average range Im getting (pretty much always 30-35km, but fairly aggressive riding, nearly always 30km/h+ & heavy carving), Im still not sure if its the setup or the cells. in any way, it seems the LGs are pretty robust. so far the capacity has not changed, despite one accidental heavy abuse down to 2.5V/cell. used the time between xmas and new years eve to do some maintenance on topspeed and evolve and measured the celldrift again: absolutely none! up to the 2nd digit the cells had the exact same voltage. I really gotta say that I feel there is no need for a BMS with quality cells, especially with an ESC that can take care of a lower battery cutoff like the VESC. -> smaller cases, lighter weight!

Carbon/aluminum profile case: holds up really well, no rattling, the rubber tubes are like new. ill build the next case just like that one!

Torqueboard High-current Switch: blue LED light died on me, too bad :( otherwise its still working

Torqueboard ESCs: they are holding up well, but I found 2 issues on them by now! first of all, the voltage cutoff with the battery is not always working as intended, for example if you switch off your board mid-tour and then switch it back on. Problem is that you define a per cell cutoff instead of a raw voltage cutoff - the thing tries to outsmart you and calculates how many cells you have in series. which is not working correctly if you switch the ESC on when the battery is at lower voltage.
the 2nd issue is: if I go into neutral at very high speed, then crank up the throttle again to resume my current speed, the motors often dont get into the right rythm right away and in the worst case they manage to brake REALLY hard for 1-2 seconds which at this speed is pretty horrible. basically I avoid going into neutral at high speed OR wait until Im down to relaxed speeds to resume throttle to get around that behavior.
finally: they are robust, but also really really large. Im building up a smaller lightweight board as we speak and I went with the vesc this time. not only is half the size of torques ESC, but it also has much better startup behavior, the superstealth FOC mode and lastly a working voltage cutoff that really allows you to leave out a BMS completely.

Flywheels 90mm 75A: by god, I learnt to love these wheels. secretly I think they are part of my low range, because they are just so soft and I feels confident enough to carve them up to a 4wheel drift at the end of a carving turn. supersmooth ride and quite a lot of grip even on rough pavement. really good choice ... pretty heavy though which is about the only downside I can think of.

GT2B -> Badwolf: best move, didnt regret the switch from nunchuck to this. much more sensitive throttle response overall!


battle scars :)
battlescars.jpg
 
Nice post Whitepony , loved reading this build thread , hope you make another of your New build !!

Do you think a slightlly harder ABEC 11 would be a good comprimize for better range?
 
Great review whitepony.

What are you using to charge your pack? LiPo charger?

TorqueBoards ESC - Don't rely on the ESC 100% to have the proper voltage cut off while at times it can be right. I don't just trust it 100% just like I don't trust a BMS 100% to fully cut off my charging when it's suppose too. You still have to remember to remove the charger from your battery pack even if it has a BMS.

As for the high speed issue and the brake issues. I haven't come across those issues. Please let me know if you find a fix for those issues or if you find out what's causing it. I am looking more into creating the VESC very soon.

I'll have to get me a set of those 90mm 75A wheels and try them one day!
 
randyc1 said:
Do you think a slightlly harder ABEC 11 would be a good comprimize for better range?
Click to expand...

maybe, its very hard to say what might be the reason for my mediocre range. aggressive riding, rolling resistance, energy efficiency of ESC or the discharge capacity of the cells. I wouldnt pick harder abecs because I just LOVE the comfort of these wheels!


torqueboards said:
What are you using to charge your pack? LiPo charger?

As for the high speed issue and the brake issues. I haven't come across those issues. Please let me know if you find a fix for those issues or if you find out what's causing it. I am looking more into creating the VESC very soon.
Click to expand...

Im charging my topspeed with my cheap evolve charger, which brings the battery to about 41V -> http://www.evolveskateboards.com.au/products/battery-charger

the weird braking does not happen everytime and Im afraid to provoke it since it nearly threw me off everytime it happened, so im trying to work myself around it! :p

think with the ease of use, the controller performance, the noise and the form factor of the VESC, there isnt really any way around it anymore. Im glad I tried it for my new board. :)
 
whitepony - do you have any idea how many amps you're pulling from that battery pack at peak? and is a 'peak' a few seconds or, say, 20 seconds as you pull up a hill?

trying to work out what cells to use in my own pack and wondering how much current it needs to supply...
 
hey I recognize those trucks, I used to build em :D

I honestly forgot all about em until I saw this thread... they put some good construction into their trucks! I filled my toolbox up with titanium scrap making odds and ends for em, much appreciated!

edit: those red trucks though, I dont recognize. slightly different geometry, but similar... but I guess most trucks are relatively similar? wouldn't know from experience, no longboard in my past, though my sister and a few friends have been long into it.
 
dec said:
whitepony - do you have any idea how many amps you're pulling from that battery pack at peak? and is a 'peak' a few seconds or, say, 20 seconds as you pull up a hill?
Click to expand...

well, the pack should be able to deliver 80amps continuously (thats pushing the lifetime of the cells of course), but Im really sure Im never pulling these numbers cause thats like 3kW @ 36V. I always kickstart and Im conservative with throttle - 2x 63mm motors can throw you off quickly. my system tends to suck about 450-500watts on average when I ride, so thats like 13-14amps on average. the peak power consumption is, if at all, a maximum timeframe of maybe 2-3 seconds cause thats what it takes to catapult you from kickstart to 30-40km/h. but thats all qualitative assumptions, I dont know the numbers for sure. :) :)
 
whitepony said:
sanded the board down from 8 to 7ply maple for some minimal flex increase. at the same time I also flattened the middle section by removing parts of the 7th maple ply - roadside you cannot see anything of the w-concave anymore, so hopefully the new enclosure will look even slimmer and more integrated than before. finally I spent quite some time trying to get a decent finish ... went with a glossy carbon grey metallic look and Im really happy how it turned out! will also fit the elegant carbon+aluminum enclosure perfectly! :)

carbongrey4.jpg

carbongrey3.jpg

carbongrey2.jpg
Click to expand...


Beautifull Paint job !

Can i ask how you painted the Underside ?, what kind of paint ?, did you use a Gun ?
 
randyc1 said:
Can i ask how you painted the Underside ?, what kind of paint ?, did you use a Gun ?
Click to expand...

wish I could say I did it all by myself, but I admittedly had professional help! :) primer -> volkswagen carbon grey metallic with a gun and a special hardener to be more resistant to chips & co. 8)
 
Electrically, when you were welding the parallel cells together, did you weld nickel strap to both sides of the 4p cells or did you only do the inner sides? Is the parallel connection on the outer sides of each 4p cell completed through the same nickel strip that is also carrying the series current between cells? ... or are there 2 layers of nickel strips along the outer sides of your battery pack?
 
smashapotamus said:
Electrically, when you were welding the parallel cells together, did you weld nickel strap to both sides of the 4p cells or did you only do the inner sides? Is the parallel connection on the outer sides of each 4p cell completed through the same nickel strip that is also carrying the series current between cells? ... or are there 2 layers of nickel strips along the outer sides of your battery pack?
Click to expand...

I didnt solder double nickel strips at all this time, just alternating "nickel-strip 4cells" inner and "copper-reinforced nickel-strip 8cells" outer!
 
Well you've inspired me. Building a 12s4p pack of my own from LG he2's and aiming for a similar form factor to yours. Now I just have to figure out how to charge it.
 
smashapotamus said:
Well you've inspired me. Building a 12s4p pack of my own from LG he2's and aiming for a similar form factor to yours. Now I just have to figure out how to charge it.
Click to expand...

nice to hear! the cool thing about 10S is, that there are a million really cheap pedelec 36V chargers out there (they usually CC CV charge up to 41-42V): ebay

the evolve charger is exactly like that and, while it is not very fast, it does the job on 2 batteries for over a year now - and both show ZERO drift!

if it has to be 12S, okp is currently tinkering with his first 12S4P DIY battery (boards at that voltage with our regular 200ish KV, motors are just too fast imo - or you have to use weird gearing with small front pulleys and then you might run into belt slip issues. but thats just my opinion :D )! he wanted to split-charge the packs as 2x 6S, which you can often do with the cheap chargers via 2x balancer ports at the same time. possibly you can find similar simple notebook style chargers for 12S as well though!
 
Pony, what gauge wire are the balancing leads?

I think i've decided against using the nickel strap entirely for my battery and will be utilizing tin plated copper braid soldered directly to the pack. I don't have access to a spot welder but I do own a high powered soldering gun (140w). I'm hoping this results in high current and low resistance. I've already glued my 4p cells together with hot glue, so support shouldn't be an issue.
 
i was using 0.25mm^2 gauge wire, dont think it matters much, they will never have to support large currents!

and yea, I think soldering is fine, thought about soldering with superflexible copper bands to have a battery that is flexible. just make sure you use flux and be quick about it. good luck! :)
 
whitepony said:
smashapotamus said:
Well you've inspired me. Building a 12s4p pack of my own from LG he2's and aiming for a similar form factor to yours. Now I just have to figure out how to charge it.
Click to expand...

nice to hear! the cool thing about 10S is, that there are a million really cheap pedelec 36V chargers out there (they usually CC CV charge up to 41-42V): ebay

the evolve charger is exactly like that and, while it is not very fast, it does the job on 2 batteries for over a year now - and both show ZERO drift!

if it has to be 12S, okp is currently tinkering with his first 12S4P DIY battery (boards at that voltage with our regular 200ish KV, motors are just too fast imo - or you have to use weird gearing with small front pulleys and then you might run into belt slip issues. but thats just my opinion :D )! he wanted to split-charge the packs as 2x 6S, which you can often do with the cheap chargers via 2x balancer ports at the same time. possibly you can find similar simple notebook style chargers for 12S as well though!
Click to expand...

Hi, when buying a charger similar to the evolve , do you know how to calculate which Amp rate is best ? 1A, 2A, 3A ?
 
think for 18650 cells, a charge rate of up to 1A per cell is usually fine (some can take even more). example: my evolve 10S6P battery can take up to 6A charge current. smaller currents prolong battery lifetime ... so if you can afford to be patient, go with less current. :)
 
hey whitepony i have a few questions about your 18650 pack.

first right now your using a laptop jack for charging in parallel with your discharge leads, right?

if so how do you balance your pack? I thought you removed the bms or just straight up didnt use one?

also that button is it just a normal high volt/amp maintained push button to open and close the circuit to the esc's for turning the board on and off/charging?
 
delta_19 said:
first right now your using a laptop jack for charging in parallel with your discharge leads, right?
Click to expand...

yea!

delta_19 said:
if so how do you balance your pack? I thought you removed the bms or just straight up didnt use one?
Click to expand...

my first battery was the 10S6P battery in my evolve. I mechanically killed my bms during some unlucky procedure and went without it for the first few weeks. was pretty scared, so I regularly measured the voltage on the balance leads, noticed 0 drift. then I just kept using the board for months, checking on the balance leads every odd week and it looked as if the cells simply werent drifting. now after the season, it looks that my 2nd DIY battery with different quality cells is also not drifing at all. thats why I think that a bms with quality cells might not really be very important at all. I never charge my board in my house when IM not present though, just precautions. :)


delta_19 said:
also that button is it just a normal high volt/amp maintained push button to open and close the circuit to the esc's for turning the board on and off/charging?
Click to expand...

its the high amp push on off switch from http://diyelectricskateboard.com/product/on-off-high-voltage-anti-spark-power-switch-2-14s/

its quite expensive, but also pretty good looking. for my next board I wanted to use an XT90-S antispark plug and thats it. its lighter and by a factor of 10 cheaper. in the end I just ended up using gold connectors with a spark :lol:
 
Ok so just TB'S ON/OFF and a laptop charger balance plugs aren't plugged in or used? That's pretty sweet.
 
Hey Whitepony, amazing build there, much props. I'm beginning a similar high speed board build as well and will be using your set up as my guide, power train wise but going 12S. I was curious though where you found the 275mm belts? I can't seem to locate any so hopefully you can post up a link?
 
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