Landyachtz TopSpeed 90mm 10S4P DualRearDrive

[whitepony]

im using these and they have never let me down do far. apparantly gates said they arent as good as standard hdt5 for gears with less than 18T, but I really cant complain at all!

https://www.zahnriemen24.de/zahnriemen/gates-powergrip-gt3/5m-gt3/

 

[polynikesx]

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply, now I just need to learn German...

 

[Ballistrophobia]

Wow! Amazing build!

I'm hoping to build something similar very soon. Do you by chance have a complete parts list? To keep costs low I'm considering a mono drive setup. Do you think your 10S4P setup would work just as well for mono drive? Would love to hear how much this all cost you if you don't mind sharing, and if there are any changes you would make if you were to build another!

Again, board looks fantastic. I hope to have something even half as awesome.

 

[whitepony]

Wow! Amazing build!

I'm hoping to build something similar very soon. Do you by chance have a complete parts list? To keep costs low I'm considering a mono drive setup. Do you think your 10S4P setup would work just as well for mono drive? Would love to hear how much this all cost you if you don't mind sharing, and if there are any changes you would make if you were to build another!

Again, board looks fantastic. I hope to have something even half as awesome.

thx for the flowers! basically a fairly detailed part list is in the first post, not sure if i can come up with more details. the topspeed is basically dead, I used up nearly all parts for my tesseract ... which is actually a single motor build and the direct successor to my topspeed (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75291). maybe check that one out! the biggest difference to the topspeed is, that I made that rubber tube enclosure and later went full carbon laminating ... and the more I spend time with carbon, the more I think that the rubber tube open enclosure is actually really really really good!

make anything different on my topspeed? in retrospect, I would save the money for the 60$ on/off switch and go for XT90S loop key, I would use vescs instead of torqueboards 12S escs and I would go 6374 single motor. :wink:

love the 10S4P battery, it lasted me 40km of 30km/h average riding on my single motor tesseract and it has a lot of power with 4 parallel LG HG2 cells (80A continuous). also its a great format, fits on nearly every board! only downside: the HG2 are really expensive cells

the total costs hmmm. I never tracked it really, not sure if I wanna know my tesseract is actually fairly cheap. only 1 small motor, 1 cheap vesc from enertion, not even xt90S loop key, just bullet connectors, mini remote 2.4ghz from aliexpress! its really an absolutely minimum setup that works really well!

 

[Ballistrophobia]

thx for the flowers! basically a fairly detailed part list is in the first post, not sure if i can come up with more details. the topspeed is basically dead, I used up nearly all parts for my tesseract ... which is actually a single motor build and the direct successor to my topspeed (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=75291). maybe check that one out! the biggest difference to the topspeed is, that I made that rubber tube enclosure and later went full carbon laminating ... and the more I spend time with carbon, the more I think that the rubber tube open enclosure is actually really really really good!

make anything different on my topspeed? in retrospect, I would save the money for the 60$ on/off switch and go for XT90S loop key, I would use vescs instead of torqueboards 12S escs and I would go 6374 single motor. :wink:

love the 10S4P battery, it lasted me 40km of 30km/h average riding on my single motor tesseract and it has a lot of power with 4 parallel LG HG2 cells (80A continuous). also its a great format, fits on nearly every board! only downside: the HG2 are really expensive cells

the total costs hmmm. I never tracked it really, not sure if I wanna know my tesseract is actually fairly cheap. only 1 small motor, 1 cheap vesc from enertion, not even xt90S loop key, just bullet connectors, mini remote 2.4ghz from aliexpress! its really an absolutely minimum setup that works really well!

Thanks for the reply again haha! I've been looking at 6734 motors. Are the Turnigy motors available through Hobby King good motors, or would you recommend going with an Enertion 6374?

40km of range is fantastic. The LG HG2 cells are very nice. If you were to build another battery pack yourself would you purchase LG HG2's again or something else? Would you stick with 10s4p? I have been researching batteries but there are just so many options.

 

[whitepony]

Thanks for the reply again haha! I've been looking at 6734 motors. Are the Turnigy motors available through Hobby King good motors, or would you recommend going with an Enertion 6374?

40km of range is fantastic. The LG HG2 cells are very nice. If you were to build another battery pack yourself would you purchase LG HG2's again or something else? Would you stick with 10s4p? I have been researching batteries but there are just so many options.

its complicated now with 2 threads :lol: 6374 is fine, but doesnt have a key seat (not a big deal, but nice to have)!

I would definitely use the LG HG2 again! its an interesting problem with these 18650 cells. the larger you make your battery (number of cells), the smaller load youll have on each individual cell. so, with large batteries you can at the same time go for the large capacity cells instead of the high throughput cells. its a win win situation!

at the same time, if you want to go for a smaller sized battery, you have the loose loose situation: lesser cells, higher load per cell, requirement to go for higher throughput individual cell which hits the capacity even more. it always double dips and that hurts these smaller battery projects a lot. after collecting some experience with batteries, I would never go with less than 40 cells. anything below that, I would probably use lipo-pouches!

for this special middle ground of of around 35-40 cells (where most skateboard projects should live really), the HG2 is pretty much without an alternative, because it allows fairly high throughput with a fairly decent capacity!

 

[Ballistrophobia]

its complicated now with 2 threads :lol: 6374 is fine, but doesnt have a key seat (not a big deal, but nice to have)!

I would definitely use the LG HG2 again! its an interesting problem with these 18650 cells. the larger you make your battery (number of cells), the smaller load youll have on each individual cell. so, with large batteries you can at the same time go for the large capacity cells instead of the high throughput cells. its a win win situation!

at the same time, if you want to go for a smaller sized battery, you have the loose loose situation: lesser cells, higher load per cell, requirement to go for higher throughput individual cell which hits the capacity even more. it always double dips and that hurts these smaller battery projects a lot. after collecting some experience with batteries, I would never go with less than 40 cells. anything below that, I would probably use lipo-pouches!

for this special middle ground of of around 35-40 cells (where most skateboard projects should live really), the HG2 is pretty much without an alternative, because it allows fairly high throughput with a fairly decent capacity!

Haha I'll try to keep the rest of my posts in the other thread. I do like that the Enertion motor has a key seat, and would be more plug and play, it's just a little on the expensive end.

I have looked at lipo pouches and like how easy they would be to install, but i've read a few comments online that made them sound like a bad idea (difficult to charge?). I will do more research on soldering/spot welding and the process of building a battery pack.

 

[WrinklyWink]

Ok so up to 4A for a 4P pack .

Perhaps its too late but I wanted to show you a link which gives you info on a particular battery I'm interested in using. The Samsung 18650-30q with 15A discharge. You'll see that on page 3, they give a good idea of of charging currents, and this particular battery can handle a max of 4A charging. They do however recommend 1.5A. And on page 8 and 9 they stress test it with 4A charging and 15A and 22A discharging respectively with its cycle capacity declination. This all gives you an idea of the battery you're dealing with. Heck, on page 16 and 17 they give the batteries hot oven (140 C) and impact tests, and the results are with no explosion or fire (L1 and L0). I suggest you look up the schematics of the battery you're looking to use so you can better understand what you're working with. I have a basic electronics certification so I could help you with understanding the data if you like.
Cheers and good luck

 

[randyc1]

Ok so up to 4A for a 4P pack .

Perhaps its too late but I wanted to show you a link which gives you info on a particular battery I'm interested in using. The Samsung 18650-30q with 15A discharge. You'll see that on page 3, they give a good idea of of charging currents, and this particular battery can handle a max of 4A charging. They do however recommend 1.5A. And on page 8 and 9 they stress test it with 4A charging and 15A and 22A discharging respectively with its cycle capacity declination. This all gives you an idea of the battery you're dealing with. Heck, on page 16 and 17 they give the batteries hot oven (140 C) and impact tests, and the results are with no explosion or fire (L1 and L0). I suggest you look up the schematics of the battery you're looking to use so you can better understand what you're working with. I have a basic electronics certification so I could help you with understanding the data if you like.
Cheers and good luck

When they recommenf 1.5 A charge rate that is for a single battery correct,??, so if you have a 10s4p pack that would be now 6A (4x1.5) , is that right ?

 

[Nordle]

When they recommenf 1.5 A charge rate that is for a single battery correct,??, so if you have a 10s4p pack that would be now 6A (4x1.5) , is that right ?

Sí
yes..

 

[laurentxr]

Another quick question: what was your pulleys size? Did you stay with 15/36 (with 90mm wheels)? Did you feel that it affected your range by pulling lots of amps at low speed or was it not that much of a factor?

Thanks for your help...

For info I've got a 10s3p 7500mah with dual enertion 15/36t 97mm wheels and I only get 10km range (12km if I go easy (but with hills in Brussels...) and I managed 20km in best ever flat conditions).

 

[whitepony]

I actually ran my 40km with 16/36T (on my tesseract, the landyachtz is pretty much dead since I stole nearly allingredients for the tesseract). the gearing is too wide for the small 6355 motor, Im sure by now. my vesc kept powering down due to heat when I went up some inclines - I changed the gearing to 15/36T and the heat hasnt been an issue since then at the very same spots.

curious about my sk3 6374 168kV motor - Ill try it with 16/36T first, but maybe 15/36T is also better, even for that one. I rarely go 40kph+ because I usually want to carve.

 

[whitepony]

thanks to the horrible weather, I started looking at my sad and plundered topspeed again - after my carbon experience with my tesseract, I kept thinking about how can I preserve a boards flex and still have a good and waterproof enclosure. one thing along this way was a nice battery layout idea of elkick and the DIY battery of randyc1, putting some puzzle pieces together, I also finally came up with the enclosure solution.

on my tesseract the problem is that the enclosure has a height. sounds weird, but thats ultimately the reason that puts the screw holes under a lot of stress and that reduces the original flex of the board.

carbon itself is very flexible, so I need to use a zero height enclosure. well, of course that is not possible, but what if I laminate many small enclosure segments - all part of one big enclosure, but all forming small chambers.

look at this layout:

you can see several things: first of all, plus and minus pole reaches the vesc at ONE end of the battery (a good idea of elkick), second all the parallel packs have 2cm dividers, and each battery chamber is connected by superflexible silicone 10AWG wires, which allows the battery to follow the full flex of the board, no matter how hard it flexes.

the carbon enclosure will be one piece, with board level connection to the board on each divider and chamberheight of 1.5cm between the dividers. that way, the enclosure can follow the flex of the board perfectly well on each divider segment, while all the chamber segments with finite enclosure height will be stiff again.

I plan to sink in each chamber by about 0.5mm with my colleagues handheld router, put 1-2 layers of carbon on the board because its structure will be severely weakened, then form a 1-piece enclosure, using the board and 6 small wooden blocks as positive form.

more tinkering coming up

 

[rmrf]

Looks like you having just as much even if not more fun building these boards as riding them. This is a fantastic feeling and I can totally understand. Your photos also deliver all the times. Keep inspiring other people and good luck with your build!

 

[Panther.software]

I was thinking about battery flexibility in 10S4P from a while, I want to make it on bamboo based longboard. So I'm looking forward after your build, please upload some photos after all :wink:

 

[whitepony]

call me weird, but I just love sanding - the smell and how things slowly disappear ...

basically I prepared the board for carbon. I think I really removed a LOT of wood, so I better use 2 layers of carbon and more if thats not enough.

sanded and everything measured. Im using very long, thin aluminum flat profiles that bend fairly well to draw lines in a curvy surface. you can see 5 equally sized battery chambers (8x14.5cm) and one, slightly larger vesc/electronic chamber (10x14.5 to be able to play around more easily with things). made the chambers with a little extra width (14.5 instead of 13.5), cause I know that the carbon sheets wont follow the sharp edges perfectly. on the other direction I didnt need anything extra, because the rounded carbon sheet transition will suit the cells perfectly.

one of the best things besides allowing flex, is the boards very own electronic chamber: when the vescs heat up, my 18650 cells wont, which is something I worry about on my tesseract (I installed a thermal insulation between battery and vesc there, but it will probably heat up some anyway).

manual router, its not that easy to make really accurate straight lines with that thing. so yea, its often slighty bumpy - it hurts my sense for aesthetics, but I just cant help it. :?

routing done:

now Im still thinking about what to do with the cables. longhairedboy on the enertion forum just installed them permanently in the board ... Im thinking to do the same, since the channel in my tesseract wasnt particularly easy to set up compared to just permanently installing the cables. ill take a break and think about it ..

 

[whitepony]

the more I think about it, the more likely Ill go down the longhairedboy route - that way I can start with carbon on the board now already and in the end just make 6 holes and route a channel ontop of the board below the grip tape. here is how longhairedboy has done it - gotta say I enjoyed the inspiration on the enertion forums - lots and lots to see there: http://www.electric-skateboard.builders/t/lhb-scarlet-black-metal-edition-12s-430-wh-18650-w-bms-ollin-vescs-enertion-dual-190kv-6355-83mm-flywheeel-clones/2475/89

 

[whitepony]

curing ...

 

[whitepony]

this vacuum setup was the best money I spent in a looong time

mounted the trucks for a quick flex check. the flex level is ... hmm, interesting? I would say its about the same flex as that of regular cruiser board, like loaded dervish sama/vanguard flex 1-2. I was a little afraid of standing in the middle with both feet and jumping up and down. felt like, if I really tried, I could bottom it out.

 

[cmatson]

Looks sweet man!

An Xcarve would make quick work of that milling.. plus, all 3 of LHB's resent wire channel's were actually cut with my Xcarve (we only live a couple hours apart) so that might be another reason to splurge on a CNC mill- after all, you get perfect lines 10/10 times, and those wire channels only took about 35 minutes.

It's definitely worth the cost in IMO

 

[randyc1]

Great work whitepony !!

I love the fact that sharing ideas futher improves all of are battery pack builds !!

Do you like your boards with a lot of flex ?

 

[Squad]

Great work whitepony, really impressive. This board looks sick, can't wait to see it finished!

 

[whitepony]

an xcarve that thing looks really awesome for any kind of precision work. bit pricy though for me, because I probably wouldnt use it much beyond the skateboard fiddling ... or well who knows. Ill read a little about it ... it definitely could make a lot of things a lot easier. my tooling isnt very great, its basically just a battery drill, a vibration grinder and a metal saw. :lol: you should live a few hours from MY place instead!!

for the boards aesthetics Im not so worried, because all the slightly bumpy looking router lines will be hidden by the enclosure and the rest around these routing areas looks really great. 8)


@randyc1: not sure about the flex yet, I mean: its what wanted! a flexy, comfortable setup and currently it feels a little like a trampoline jumping on that board. I have to say, Im a little afraid of bottoming it out, because I dont want to break it. not sure how much flex that board can take? guess I should test that rather sooner than later, hm? :?

partly I have really bad pavement around my place, like really bad - that kind of flex will make things a lot more comfy. whenever I ride my gbomb pump setup, I love how it just eats every. the tesseract is fairly stiff - less stiff than a regular downhill setup, but still stiff enough to go 50kph+ without worrying. I really like it a lot, dont expect that the topspeed will be a rival to the "favourite board in quiver" title. flex is a complicated issue really and you need just the right amount. I love the energy returns of my gbomb when I pump, it feels lively and energetic. a board that is too stiff feels just dead to me, not very fun to carve with. too wobbly isnt great either though. complicated

right now I see it as an experiment to check on how one can design flexy enclosures and electronics. and to see how I like flex at 30kph+.

 

[206monkey32]

@whitepony

Are you still using your SuperCap spot welder for these recent packs? Any improvements or upgrades?

 

[whitepony]

yea, still working with the supercap. it just works so well, dont see a reason to switch to anything else!

Im in a really great mood right now first of all I made a quick video showing the flex of the topspeed. dont really have anything but my phone to record stuff, so it sucks a little:
[youtube]5Usq1IDlvpk[/youtube]

felt actually a lot less flexy than on my first nightly try, think coming straight from my tesseract it felt quite soft, but now it just feels really cool. tried the board on the road (without motors), together with my new wheels that you can see in the video as well and duhhh, Im super stocked about both. the board is lively, springy and dampens everything so well ... and then these wheels ...

its the 3dm avila 75mm 73A duro (yes, 73A!!!). -> https://www.muirskate.com/longboard/wheels/3184/75mm-seismic-3dm-avila-clear-series-downhill-longboard-wheels

what a smooth and grippy wheel and its so small, actually felt a little softer than my abec 90mm 75A and definitely had a lot more grip - a revelation for carving on mediocre pavement!! wonder if I can use the custom drive gear of esk8.de with the 3 screws to attach it to these wheels? that would be really cool to have actually skateboard sized wheels with 90mm 75A comfort!! can finally drop my giant rubber risers as well with these kind of wheels!!