lifebatt prices
- Thread starter numberonekiwi
- Start date
Don Harmon said:I am not sure - WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY " + ADD TO THAT DEPOSIT RATES ($4000-864) FOR A TWO OR THREE YEARS" ?
I must not understand your Greek math example ????
Best,
DH
Its clear : i can put $3k for a year or two to the bank at 4% per year so after 2 years i get $3240.
The next battery which i will have to buy will be cost maybe $750 , so i still could leave $2000+ at the bank for another year or even two.
After that your 4 years old batteries will be worth nothing and maybe BBMS too ( if new generations could work fine without it ) and i will have still over $2500 for the next generations products.
EP- You are comparing Apples to Handgrenades. First of all we and MOST U.S. reputable Battery Pack Makers are NOT going to sell just cells - it is best to buy the cells already built into packs because the cells need matching and the packs need battery managment boards.
So you can't even make the comparison you are trying to make here. It's bogus and irrelevant completely. Don't keep repeating it anymore!
If you want to buy raw cells - go right ahead - but don't use raw cell cost to compare to complete professional battery packs which include a BMS & matching charger. Also the raw cells that are available for individual purchase will be the 18650 form factor. You will not be finding the 40138 larger format sold as single cells. Unless you want to go up to the big ass Thunder Sky cells you will not find anything available in between. Remember the Thunder Sky cells are made for Bus & Taxi cab use and are 40Ah minimum. Not a great match for light electric vehicle use!
Go for it - Nobody can stop you my friend. Let us know how it works out for you too?
Best,
DH
So you can't even make the comparison you are trying to make here. It's bogus and irrelevant completely. Don't keep repeating it anymore!
If you want to buy raw cells - go right ahead - but don't use raw cell cost to compare to complete professional battery packs which include a BMS & matching charger. Also the raw cells that are available for individual purchase will be the 18650 form factor. You will not be finding the 40138 larger format sold as single cells. Unless you want to go up to the big ass Thunder Sky cells you will not find anything available in between. Remember the Thunder Sky cells are made for Bus & Taxi cab use and are 40Ah minimum. Not a great match for light electric vehicle use!
Go for it - Nobody can stop you my friend. Let us know how it works out for you too?
Best,
DH
Don Harmon said:
Are you kidding guy ???
BMS and chargers i can make at home i don't need buying it from China.
So i compare what i can't make at home - is this clear now ?
Don Harmon said:If you want to buy raw cells - go right ahead - but don't use raw cell cost to compare to complete professional battery packs which include a BMS & matching charger. Also the raw cells that are available for individual purchase will be the 18650 form factor. You will not be finding the 40138 larger format sold as single cells. Unless you want to go up to the big ass Thunder Sky cells you will not find anything available in between. Remember the Thunder Sky cells are made for Bus & Taxi cab use and are 40Ah minimum. Not a great match for light electric vehicle use!
Go for it - Nobody can stop you my friend. Let us know how it works out for you too?
Best,
DH
Ask Lowell how many kW and KWh his bike needs :lol:
and you will be surprised :wink:
So show us yours calculations for DIY battery system home makers.
safe
1 GW
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 5,681
Don HarmonDon't mind eP I've dealt with him before and he's a real bomb thrower on this messageboard. We've thrown one guy out of here (that I know of) and he tends to get as close as possible to abusing language and attitude that he can before the heat comes down on him.
Many people on this board are smart enough to figure out all the various quirks that go into battery management (or think they can) and will build their own stuff from scratch.
Others are less technical, but have real jobs and real income to be able to afford to buy better stuff that is already developed.
So you have:
1. Difficult people (like eP)
2. People who like to do everything themselves.
3. People who love the technology, but don't have time to build everything themselves.
Just try to identify who is who as you go along... we're all not creepy people like eP...
safe said:
So you have:
1. Difficult people (like eP)
2. People who like to do everything themselves.
3. People who love the technology, but don't have time to build everything themselves.
Just try to identify who is who as you go along... we're all not creepy people like eP...
:lol:
EP, We are not interested in selling our product to YOU. Please feel free to make your own as you say you CAN. But don't keep bashing the price of Factory Made Professional Packs, which many people WILL buy because they can't (or have no interest in) making their own.
You can also build your own house and save a small fortune - most folks don't however, and we are selling to a much wider audience than the home builder (enthusiast) market. You can always make the analogy that a consumer product can be built cheaper but that really is not relevant. Factories will still exist to produce most of the products sold in our market and the isolated DIY market is of little interest to them in the overall picture as even YOU must agree.
What others need as far a KW Hr. is also not of interest to us, since most e-bike users rarely need anything in the 40Ah range, and our market is e-bikes and LIGHT Electric Vehicle usage. There will always be those FEW who will want the extreme power packs, and they usually can build their own, so we don't need to cater to that market. Thunder Sky can service them just fine, so we don't need to.
I hope this explains my position here, and really don't want to waste any more time arguing over something that is just silly in the long run. Hope you find your solutions and are happy with the results. Our 40138 Format cells are unique at this time, and we feel there is a receptive market for LiFePO4 Professionally Built Packs that include a BMS, Matching Charger, and Factory Warranty. We'll have to see how the competition prices their new offerings before we start worrying about what a few individuals think about our pricing.
I would attach a jpg. here that shows the advantage of our Large Format Cells, but I don't know how to do that ???? It's not yet UP on our website.
Best Regards,
Don Harmon
http://www.lifebatt.com
You can also build your own house and save a small fortune - most folks don't however, and we are selling to a much wider audience than the home builder (enthusiast) market. You can always make the analogy that a consumer product can be built cheaper but that really is not relevant. Factories will still exist to produce most of the products sold in our market and the isolated DIY market is of little interest to them in the overall picture as even YOU must agree.
What others need as far a KW Hr. is also not of interest to us, since most e-bike users rarely need anything in the 40Ah range, and our market is e-bikes and LIGHT Electric Vehicle usage. There will always be those FEW who will want the extreme power packs, and they usually can build their own, so we don't need to cater to that market. Thunder Sky can service them just fine, so we don't need to.
I hope this explains my position here, and really don't want to waste any more time arguing over something that is just silly in the long run. Hope you find your solutions and are happy with the results. Our 40138 Format cells are unique at this time, and we feel there is a receptive market for LiFePO4 Professionally Built Packs that include a BMS, Matching Charger, and Factory Warranty. We'll have to see how the competition prices their new offerings before we start worrying about what a few individuals think about our pricing.
I would attach a jpg. here that shows the advantage of our Large Format Cells, but I don't know how to do that ???? It's not yet UP on our website.
Best Regards,
Don Harmon
http://www.lifebatt.com
safe
1 GW
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2006
- Messages
- 5,681
Don Harmon said:
A very good point.
People with money can afford to do whatever they want... if they want the best battery that money can buy, then they buy it.
I do this as a hobby and have even done home repair as a hobby too a few years back during the housing boom. (made a lot of money on the resale :wink: )
There are people who want the best...
Don Harmon said:
I don't bashing your prices Don - the numbers bashing them alone.
Short calculations (as above) telling the truth.
I don't deny that many people are so leazy or high efficient at their work as Lowell is and earning a lot of many $50+ per hour, so they will not wasting their time for saving a little $2500+ as calculated above.
So your business have a great future especially in USA and Canada.
But here at forum people looking for most efficient solutions (for their wallets too), so don't be surprised for a little comparisions.
Don Harmon said:
I'm not sure who is here isolated. DIY here is NOT isolated i'm afraid.
But maybe i'm wrong.
Don Harmon said:
I'm afraid you are wrong again
Your first and the best customers could be Lowell or Safe i see.
Guys who need 36V or more for the sake of speed need a lot energy.
If somebody feel good with 720 Wh on board then usually don't care the speed and power and 24V is more than enough for her/him.
So 6 or 8 TS 40Ah cells could also work fine for him/her - all depend on his/her income and how his/her is leazy and uninformed.
Don Harmon said:
So now all is clear your Proffesionally Built Pack can work the same time as 2 or 3 home made by the everybody who want save the money.
Best Regards
and Good Luck :wink:
I have to add : a few years ago the same story we could see at PC market. Big brands telling us they make their PC with carefully selected mobos an uP.
Now the all parts are so cheap that everybody can make it at home even kids can do it.
So the same story we will see with Proffesionally Built Battery Packs.
Now the all parts are so cheap that everybody can make it at home even kids can do it.
So the same story we will see with Proffesionally Built Battery Packs.
Joshua Goldberg
100 W
I couldn't figure you out before but I have realized based upon what you write and your destorted grasp on reality, you are really Richard Papa using an Alias...damn good job there Richard
PS If I am wrong and you are not Richard, then EP you need to get back on your Medication fast
PS If I am wrong and you are not Richard, then EP you need to get back on your Medication fast
numberonekiwi
10 W
The argument for price with NiMH and LifePO4 packs if you were to looke on ebikes.ca website their NiMH for 36V 8~12AH varies between $200 ~ $385
Lets look at some prices of packs
(2) Foxx 36v10a Paks w/BMS & Cheetah Charger = $674 + Shipping (3 year warranty)
ebikes.ca 36V 8Ah Nexcell NiMH, High Rate (5C max) = $325
5.2 kg (11.46 lbs)
Lifebatt 36v 10AH with BMS / Charger + Shipping =$1005 (2 year warranty)
The only advantage is Lifebatt website say 2-3 days delivery which means they proberly have these packs on the shelf made up ready to go where as foxxpower claim 4-6 weeks so if you want your pack like now then lifebatt could be the only option
lets consider worked out to price per VA (or Watt as this is DC)
36v 8AH NiMH $325/36v/8 = $1.13 + charger
(2)36v 10AH LiFePO4 $674/2 = $337/36/10 = $0.94 including charger (fox)
36v 10AH LiFePO4 $1005/36/10 = $2.79 including charger (lifebatt)
36v 10AH LiFePO4 $420/36/10 =$1.16 + charger (iloveebikes)
36v 10AH LifePO4 $465/36/10 =$1.29 inc charger (iloveebikes)
It actually appears here that LiFePO4 is indeed CHEAPER depending on your supplier if lifebatt cells were guaranteed for at least 1500 cycles it would still be cheaper than NiMH
I am in the Process of ordering from fox just waiting for final shipping cost
Lets look at some prices of packs
(2) Foxx 36v10a Paks w/BMS & Cheetah Charger = $674 + Shipping (3 year warranty)
ebikes.ca 36V 8Ah Nexcell NiMH, High Rate (5C max) = $325
5.2 kg (11.46 lbs)
Lifebatt 36v 10AH with BMS / Charger + Shipping =$1005 (2 year warranty)
The only advantage is Lifebatt website say 2-3 days delivery which means they proberly have these packs on the shelf made up ready to go where as foxxpower claim 4-6 weeks so if you want your pack like now then lifebatt could be the only option
lets consider worked out to price per VA (or Watt as this is DC)
36v 8AH NiMH $325/36v/8 = $1.13 + charger
(2)36v 10AH LiFePO4 $674/2 = $337/36/10 = $0.94 including charger (fox)
36v 10AH LiFePO4 $1005/36/10 = $2.79 including charger (lifebatt)
36v 10AH LiFePO4 $420/36/10 =$1.16 + charger (iloveebikes)
36v 10AH LifePO4 $465/36/10 =$1.29 inc charger (iloveebikes)
It actually appears here that LiFePO4 is indeed CHEAPER depending on your supplier if lifebatt cells were guaranteed for at least 1500 cycles it would still be cheaper than NiMH
I am in the Process of ordering from fox just waiting for final shipping cost
36V 10ah LiFePO4 pack with charger from Foxx is the best deal right now.
$312 for pack, $50 for charger, $20 shipping.
Total of 13lbs. compared to my 30lb SLA.
He may give a different quote if you talk to him. Tell him you heard about the pack from this forum. You can give him my name, Eric from Kentucky. He is a very nice guy and will talk as long as you want.
http://www.skeuter.com/Foxx%20Details.htm
For Price Quotes call: 310-425-4051
Please give Zane a call if you want to get some knowledge of this product. He knows a lot about this technology and is very interested in it. The cool thing is that he is here in the states, an average American that has the same interests as us (ebikes). He has many large accounts in mining and boating applications and passes the savings on to the little guys. It may take a month to get the pack, but just use your existing pack for the time being. If you are new to ebikes, you probably do not want to start out with a LiFePO4 pack anyway. Get an SLA pack and make sure you want to invest the money. That is what I did for my first year, and I am ready for a lighter pack and feel I have the knowledge to move forward with a better technology.
$312 for pack, $50 for charger, $20 shipping.
Total of 13lbs. compared to my 30lb SLA.
He may give a different quote if you talk to him. Tell him you heard about the pack from this forum. You can give him my name, Eric from Kentucky. He is a very nice guy and will talk as long as you want.
http://www.skeuter.com/Foxx%20Details.htm
For Price Quotes call: 310-425-4051
Please give Zane a call if you want to get some knowledge of this product. He knows a lot about this technology and is very interested in it. The cool thing is that he is here in the states, an average American that has the same interests as us (ebikes). He has many large accounts in mining and boating applications and passes the savings on to the little guys. It may take a month to get the pack, but just use your existing pack for the time being. If you are new to ebikes, you probably do not want to start out with a LiFePO4 pack anyway. Get an SLA pack and make sure you want to invest the money. That is what I did for my first year, and I am ready for a lighter pack and feel I have the knowledge to move forward with a better technology.
numberonekiwi said:
I would only make an important distinction here:
36v 10AH LiFePO4 $1005/36/10 = $2.79 including charger (lifebatt)
Includes Shipping and LiFeBATT individual cells are the Large Form Factor-40128 cells (not the small 18650 cells). LiFeBATT also uses licensed phosphate materials from Phostech Lithium, Canada exclusively in the mfg. of all it's LiFePO4 cells. These differences are reflected in their price being higher and should be noted when making comparisons strictly on Price alone! (See previous post illustration on this post)
Best,
DH
I offer this basic Chart Format to help us all rate the new LiFePO4 Battery pack offerings that will no doubt be forthcoming in the next 90 days. I think it may help us all to evaluate these offerings in a fair and more thorough manner rather than a simple comparison of Price. I hope you agree, and I have filled in the information for LiFeBATT - since this is the only one I can validate at this time. Let's build a comprehensive chart that will be valuable to ALL the members on Endless Sphere.
Best, DH
Best, DH
Attachments
mvadventure
1 kW
- Joined
- May 2, 2007
- Messages
- 419
This is absolutely the best thread yet except I forgot most of it and had to reread the whole thing. Must be one of the bad things about getting old.
In the meantime "we will all be lusting after the safe, portable fusion units that just entered the market at sky-high prices. And so, for better and for worse, the cycle flows, and our cycles go." proves Xyster remains my hero. Since I have ordered and am waiting on the LiPO4's from Zane I feel sure Xysters prediction will come through before Christmas. I don't know what a portable fusion unit is or how much it costs but I want one.
For what it's worth I can afford to buy anything I want/need but not necessarily desire. I do desire a 100' yacht, a little, but not enough to go back to work. For the rest of the stuff there has to be value received and a perception of value. When we talking about electric bicycles we're still talking about bicycles which, last I checked, are still bicycles and not luxury vehicles with lots of expensive options. As far as I know 99.9% of them have Chinese motors which all by itself doesn't lend much perception of high quality.
As I have posted before my needs are fairly simple for an ebike, I want range and a little speed. The existing 30 MPH top end is fine and 20 -22 MPH cruising speed is delightful and spending a total of a couple of thousand dollars for motor, batteries, bicycle and accessories is right in line with a decent quality road bike (which I ain't a gonna ride) Regardless of quality though 3K for batteries is a little extreme. We are still putting them on a BICYCLE!
I feel Don has a market and it may be a larger market than we give him credit for, he is undoubtedly an astute business person and makes a fine looking trike. Conceptually his batteries are great, BMS, Charger, factory tested with warranties and most importantly rapid delivery. No one else has rapid delivery and that alone has a good value. It could very well be, and I imagine it could happen, that substantial sales will significantly lower prices. He has a hook in the fact his batteries are allegedly bigger/better than the competition but lacking a retail outlet in my neighborhood where I can see and feel the difference it is difficult, for me, to assess.
Personally, since I lack the desire/need/skill to build my own pack and if Zane or Andy or Kurt weren't selling a similar product to suit my needs/wants/desires I would consider his batteries. Maybe. Maybe I'd buy a motorcycle.
But I ramble. I am good at rambling.
Mike
In the meantime "we will all be lusting after the safe, portable fusion units that just entered the market at sky-high prices. And so, for better and for worse, the cycle flows, and our cycles go." proves Xyster remains my hero. Since I have ordered and am waiting on the LiPO4's from Zane I feel sure Xysters prediction will come through before Christmas. I don't know what a portable fusion unit is or how much it costs but I want one.
For what it's worth I can afford to buy anything I want/need but not necessarily desire. I do desire a 100' yacht, a little, but not enough to go back to work. For the rest of the stuff there has to be value received and a perception of value. When we talking about electric bicycles we're still talking about bicycles which, last I checked, are still bicycles and not luxury vehicles with lots of expensive options. As far as I know 99.9% of them have Chinese motors which all by itself doesn't lend much perception of high quality.
As I have posted before my needs are fairly simple for an ebike, I want range and a little speed. The existing 30 MPH top end is fine and 20 -22 MPH cruising speed is delightful and spending a total of a couple of thousand dollars for motor, batteries, bicycle and accessories is right in line with a decent quality road bike (which I ain't a gonna ride) Regardless of quality though 3K for batteries is a little extreme. We are still putting them on a BICYCLE!
I feel Don has a market and it may be a larger market than we give him credit for, he is undoubtedly an astute business person and makes a fine looking trike. Conceptually his batteries are great, BMS, Charger, factory tested with warranties and most importantly rapid delivery. No one else has rapid delivery and that alone has a good value. It could very well be, and I imagine it could happen, that substantial sales will significantly lower prices. He has a hook in the fact his batteries are allegedly bigger/better than the competition but lacking a retail outlet in my neighborhood where I can see and feel the difference it is difficult, for me, to assess.
Personally, since I lack the desire/need/skill to build my own pack and if Zane or Andy or Kurt weren't selling a similar product to suit my needs/wants/desires I would consider his batteries. Maybe. Maybe I'd buy a motorcycle.
But I ramble. I am good at rambling.
Mike
DHarris894
1 µW
What is the difference in the dimensions and weight of the 36v 10ah packs of the 40138 & 18650 cells?
Size and weight should probably be on the form as well.
Size and weight should probably be on the form as well.
numberonekiwi
10 W
ok quite simply-
What would be the difference that I or anyone else here would notice if I were to put Lifebatt packs or other LiFePO4 packs on their ebikes - Extra cycles? , extra power? , extra WH/G? or not much
As I say Lifebatt can supply NOW the rest 4-6 weeks apart from that what is the real advantage of a lifebatt pack?
Don you have posted up a chart but there is no comparison 40138 / 18650 cells 40138 cells are the only ones you manufacture what is their true advantage? I thought LiFePO4 cells were single cells (5 / 10 / 20 or whatever AH you wanted ) maybe using *p*s to give voltage/AH I may be wrong
BUT
I will give you 1 major strong point I CAN HAVE IMEDIATELY as you advertise a extremly short Del period
What would be the difference that I or anyone else here would notice if I were to put Lifebatt packs or other LiFePO4 packs on their ebikes - Extra cycles? , extra power? , extra WH/G? or not much
As I say Lifebatt can supply NOW the rest 4-6 weeks apart from that what is the real advantage of a lifebatt pack?
Don you have posted up a chart but there is no comparison 40138 / 18650 cells 40138 cells are the only ones you manufacture what is their true advantage? I thought LiFePO4 cells were single cells (5 / 10 / 20 or whatever AH you wanted ) maybe using *p*s to give voltage/AH I may be wrong
BUT
I will give you 1 major strong point I CAN HAVE IMEDIATELY as you advertise a extremly short Del period
Similar threads
