unconventional ebike motors.

Once he gets the hub kit, then he's gotta deal with the connectors, tough job there. The he shall be you, soldering or mechanical is the debate. Long lasting connections would you say that be mechanical connections? Then of course there is the battery, the all important battery. Its got to be a "safe battery" they say, so they choose large heavy chemistries.

Just conjecture but he might have done a burn out against the park bench on asphalt for rubber smoke or a stuck the front wheel up against a big Douglas Fir tree trunk to whip up dirt, moss and perhaps soft little pebbles.... no more then that, no rocks of any sort. Doubt he did donuts in the uniform gravel under that bridge. Nice and slow up a hill, gets toasty warm. All that to impress his friends. We got to have fun, sometimes fun costs money in terms of motor dont work no more.

Install a temp probe, not cheap controller for that. Do they have them on generics?
Save a motor!
 
ust conjecture but he might have done a burn out against the park bench on asphalt for rubber smoke or a stuck the front wheel up against a big Douglas Fir tree trunk to whip up dirt, moss and perhaps soft little pebbles

NO.

He is like 65 years old and never rode an ebike. He has issues Just getting on a bike.

It was a false alarm. The 8 pin Bafang connecter came unplugged. He must have hit it with his foot and came loose. He wears glasses and don't see well. On those connecters you have a white arrow on the plug coming from the motor but black on the plug from the controller. You have to have decent eye site or a very bright light to see it.

Fortunately no damage to the pins. I have by passed the plug before but a lot of work and my 60 watt soldering iron is broke and my 100 watt Weller is too big for sensor wires.

I plugged it in and hooked the batteries up and the wheel spun perfect. I told Tom to make sure he pedals first and to put the back wheel off the ground and practice the light touch with the thumb throttle. It is a cheap $15 controller so no way to program it. He is like 250 pounds easily I needed to explain to him that all his weight standing still is a lot of stress on a hub motor especially. . It is also why I would never put a front hub motor on any bike unless there is a rear motor too.

I have a 90s Vintage Diamondback Outlook that runs perfect but has a flat tire. It has dual Bafangs , both front motors so no pedal options. Battery Clearinghouse had a sale on a whole lot of them in 2020. $45 each and two for $70. Talk about a sweetheart of a deal.
Dual 17 amp controllers < $15 each and that bike runs AWSOME.

I even ran it at 52V and almost hit 30 mph but did not want to push the motors so I run it at 43V. It still runs sweet at about 22 mph. The point is with two hub motors identical with the same controllers there is literally 1/2 the stress on the front fork drop outs during take off Not sure about the physics but could be a lot more than 1/2 as the rear is heavier than the front. The fork is steel on the Diamondback. Forged aluminum can work but cast will snap like pop metal my father used to call it.

I broke my share of cast forks in the past and all during take off so I consider myself a thumb throttle veteran. It is why I highly recommend a programable controller or at least a module with power assist settings. It just makes sense. I got my first one on my full suspension with the 1,500W kit. Almost 10 years riding e bikes and I love it. I just am not crazy about a twist throttle. My question is can you run a thumb throttle with those type of controllers or is it twist only. ??

I am NOT taking the 750W gear chain drive off and leaving the front Bafang on as well. That e bike is all wheel drive and single thumb throttle also like the Diamondback. It has a wider tire on the back but both knobby and perfect for off road. It even has a pedal chain and gears could happen with a little TLC. It is 43V and that gear motor is a hill climber especially with help from the front Bafang. With those tires it will be my winter ebike.

I have an old 26" Haro frame I could put two 24V motors in the back and a decent cargo basket up front. instead of a front motor. The 24V ebke has to happen for me soon. My old LIFEPO4 packs wont last forever. 25V of LTO is a lot closer to forever so wont have to stress out about batteries for about 20 years. maybe. :)

I will probably still build a 24V - 20" bike first. though. The Hero needs a lot of parts I don't have right now. The forks are not hooked up and needs hardware.

. I just got in two 20" BMX bikes for parts about a week ago. I put a rack on the Diamondback Viper. Vintage 20" BMX. I am building a rack on the top bar for 10S 25V LTO.


Thanks.

Skyler out.
 
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He bought a Next full suspension 26". He is looking at Christmas or January for a 1,500W rear hub kit. At least he will have power level modes. I like 5 levels of motor power. At least he will get a better kit than I did.

My controller was bare minimum for a 1,500W kit. Probably only 9 mosfets and 30 amp with a 35 amp fuse. Why I put a 1,000W brush chain in the front. Kind of overkill here but someplace where the hills are steep it could come handy.

I have seen 35 and 45 amp controllers since then with 12 mosfets in a 1,500W kit. Also a lot more 27.5" and 700c kits than like 8 years ago. Also I am talking less than $230. 1,000W kits about $160. That is not bad considering inflation these days.

Once he gets the hub kit, then he's gotta deal with the connectors, tough job there. The he shall be you, soldering or mechanical is the debate. Long lasting connections would you say that be mechanical connections? Then of course there is the battery, the all important battery. Its got to be a "safe battery" they say, so they choose large heavy chemistries.




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Yea. He ordered two and I soldered the connecters to run in series and parallel charging. He is good. The continuous maximum rating is 24 amps discharge so if I bought 6 of them I . cold run my full suspension as both controllers are 30 amps.

If I get a 1,500W 700c kit for my Giant Roam then four would work for the 45 amp 12 mosfet controller. However if I did that I will still have 24 - LTO batteries just collecting dust. I would rather order the 24V 500 watt Unite motors and be able to run LTO every day. I can always order 4 or 6 of those this winter and the 1,500W 700c hub kit.

I am curious how many Ah they really are. They do not guarantee the capacity. I will have to see how far he can go on a full charge. I am hoping Walmart and back That is about 6 to 7 miles I think from his house round trip. If they can do that I will probably order 6 of them. I could order 16 - 10AH Headway for $160 or 16 Top Band 25 Ah prismatic cells for about $300 , both brand new but I would need BMSs or active balancers and hardware. These K2 packs each have their own BMS so I hope they can go 7 miles.

As far as the hub kit I got everything was connected. All sensor and phase and a 35 amp iline fuse for the positive power wire.The module plugged in and the throttle. Only the battery wires needed soldering. Most hub kits today not only have 5 assist power levels but are very beginner friendly. They make a lot easier than 10 years ago I think. to hook up.

Those batteries weigh 5.5 pounds so I would not want to run more than 4 for 22 pounds That would be 48 amps. Perfect for the 30 amp kit I got now and for the 700c kit that is 45 amps.

Thanks.

Skyler.
 
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You want to figure out wh, then do a discharge test.
Its been discussed on how to go about doing it.

I dont believe fet count is wattage based, but quality of controller based like the quality of the fets. 4110 are popular and have a max of 100v, but are expensive. It comes down to sharing the load better.

In trying to find that info, I came across a neat post of the merits of 2wd
*Might be good info for the proud new owner of the HubZilla motor now sold.
 
You want to figure out wh, then do a discharge test.
Its been discussed on how to go about doing it.

I do not believe in discharge tests. Maybe for single cells but not for a large pack. I use google maps to test capacity. During normal operation 10 to 25 mph if the bike can do 10 miles then it is at least 10 Ah. That is throttle only , no pedal.

That is why if the 9.6 Ah K2 packs can do at least 8 miles then they should be around 80% or higher capacity from new which is 9.6 Ah , close to 10 miles. If that is true then those cells are a sweet heart of a deal. If they only do 5 miles then they are a big rip off. It is that simple.

I don't like discharge tests because they are not accurate as far as range is concerned because the discharge rate is maybe an amp or two. When riding an ebike ,the average discharge rate can be measured by a power meter. It is way more accurate then discharging a pack at a couple amps. I want to know how far I can go with a given pack. I rate capacity in miles traveled at normal operation , NOT full throttle. Full throttle is typically = or < 1/2 the capacity of normal operation.

Thanks.

Skyler out.
 
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The tedious. undesirable and main bitch as far as ebikes go is battery. As we all know we developed a solid electric car motor in the 70s but battery technology has lagged behind so much that it allowed petroleum to rule the world.

If Biden was really for green energy and the green party was successful then LIFEPO4 batteries would be cheaper than SLA today. Unfortunately Big oil still rules the planet.

For example if I wanted to ride an ebike 500 miles to see my mother I would need to charge > 20 times. A cheap gas motor that is around 50cc would need to re fuel a 3 gallon tank about 4 times.

Lithium ion cells are greater energy density so maybe can do the 500 mile trip recharging 10 times but takes 4 or 5 times longer to re charge than LIFEPO4 and also dangerous as thermal runaway.

I am thinking about taking the 1,500 watt hub kit off the full suspension and putting it on the Giant Roam. Then getting four 24V LIFEPO4 K2 energy packs from Battery Hookup for < $200 including shipping.

Then keeping the 1,000W chain drive in the front of the full suspension and putting a large extra heavy reinforced rear rack with basket and installing a 32 to 40 cc gas motor for long distance.

I probably wont thogh if I can get a serious spot welding machine. If I can build big 56V 17S LIFEPO4 packs like 15P then I could go like 50 miles on a charge then I would not need a 40cc gas motor.

I am scratching my head thinking about all that.

Thanks.

Skyler out.
 
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i HAD a $24 ebay one like in the video. No I did not mod. Lots of mods out there.

I tried it according to video and flames shot out when trying to spot weld. I got wittness. Crazy.

Cheap Battery Spot Welder 18650, Yes its awesome!​



HowIDidIt
18.5K subscribers


That guy is a complete retard.

The truth is it shoots flames out using the exact battery he used in his video. I threw it in the dumpster and he should remove his video.



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That said I am looking at AC spot welders.

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I am not trusting DC. Looking at AC spot welders for battery building.
 
Not looking for portable / battery spot welder/ Only AC and 119 joules

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I doubt you will find a AC spot welder 119 oues < $200.

Why I don't buy it is I m low on $$$$

I have several ebikes that need 50V and others that need 40V.

I want an ebike or two that does 25 to 30V . That way I can run LTO 20 to 25 pounds. Two 500W motors = 30 mph and three = 35 mph.

For my 36 to 50+ volt I need LIFEPO4 as lighter, battery.

Thanks

Skyler out.
 
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I just looked it up.

Peak welding energy 780J

Price is $578.55

Yea. That is way over my budget,

The model 801A is only 60J

The 801B is 119J and > $250. I think I saw one for < $250 but was not Glitter but was 119J

My question is how many Joules are required for welding 26650 cells. I wont be needing to weld anything larger as any larger batteries have nuts and bolts.



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That is 119J

Will that work for 26650 cells ?????

I just got a very good price for TopBand cells I spoke with a seller that makes Top Band.

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I would have to do the 35 day delivery which is probably from China. That would work for Jan 4 2004 and would get them in Febuary.

I need to run 10S - LTO 25V by NOV this year. That is why I will probably order two 500W 24V brush motors and a $20 24V 1,000W brush controller. I am still waiting on the 10S active balancer. I got the box made and fuses / connecters for series and balance. As soon as the balancer shows up it will be ready for the motors and controller.

I still want a spot welder at some point as I have a lot of 26650 cells and can order tons more from Battery Hookup and Battery Clearinghouse. I can actually make a few bucks building and selling packs from those used cells.

Please let me know if 119 joules and the spot welder I posted the picture of can do 26650 cells. I will never spend > $500 on a spot welder. That is way too much for my budget.

Thanks.

Skyler out.
 
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the chimera ebmx is pretty neato. it can do backflips. engine and controller are like 7lbs , 1000-3800w , 5000w motor

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discussing different motors demoed, including a watercraft motor. they ended up using an ip53 motor and an ip65 transmision. he spent like 3 years on this apparently




it can do backflips! Electric BMX on Instagram: "Ryan Williams backflips electric BMX"
 
This is like 7 years old and never heard a peep... Lightweight who makes carbon wheels made this 200 magnet embedded wheel with a mudguard ish magnetic drive. Claimed 60 mph / 100 kmh at only 500 watts but I wonder what the torque is like. It seems amazing though, and wouldn't necessarily interrupt your drivechain. Claimed motor weight a scant 4 lb. There wasn't a lot of clearance so maybe water or debris would affect this
This really seems like the future for small urban mobility EV

 

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Looking at ordering two 24V 500W brush motors soon. I got the 44T sprocket and 40 amp controller with the speed control knob.
It did overheat the old 36V brush motor I had awhile ago but was experimenting with 20V. Under voting will cause a motor to draw excessive current to compensate.

25V LTO is the correct voltage for the 24V 500W motors. Also dual motors will allow much greater heat dissipation. I knew awhile back that controller has no current limiting as tripped a 40 amp DC breaker. I will need a 60 amp breaker and will check the motors to see how hot they get. If they get too hot or the 60 amp breaker trips I will need to order a current limiting 1,000W 24V controller.

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I own two of those. One is brand new in the box so would like to use them instead of spending $$$ on a current limiting controller. Hopefully it will work. I am not going to need to run it at full speed for any length of time. Maybe a few seconds to see what top speed is. . It is a cargo bike. Also not many hills here so hoping it will work. If it does all I will need is the two motors and #420 roller chain.

I just have to make sure I do not run the pack low as no LVC cut off. I think I will order a 1,000W 24V current limiting controller for the LVC feature as I am not running a BMS. I am using a 5 amp active balancer and 10 amp fuses to each balance wire. Also a 60 amp fuse to the negative power wire and a 60 amp DC breaker for the positive.

The controller above I can run for testing and short distance awhile I wait for the current limiting controller with the LVC to come in the mail unless it comes before the motors do.

Thanks.

Skyler out.
 
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I just have to make sure I do not run the pack low as no LVC cut off.

That is not good at all!
Dont be careless, be safe!
RC lipo audible alarms isnt great either but at least its something.
Voltage display is helpful, even if you duct tape a dmm to your handlebars it'd be better then what your plans are for self control.
Riding can be hard to sustain self control for a long distance, with a low capacity battery of 5 mile range, if it had a 50 mile range and you just use it for 10 or 15 miles, however one day you may just forget.
Charge up for a short ride, will work fine for testing but with a dmm, audible alarm

You claim that those are the "safe" batteries, safe depends on the user.
 
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Skyler, what’s your proposed gear ratio? You should be targeting near enough 10:1.

You mentioned 44t. Combined with what size motor sprocket?

And what’s your solution to chain wrap around motor sprockets? You gonna put an idler between them?
 
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I plan on running dual 500W motors so will order the current limiting 45 amp controller from electric scooter parts but due to $$$ issues this month I might have to wait until next month for the controller.

If I use the controller I got now I can mount a multi meter to the handle bar to monitor voltage. The cells are 18 Ah Lishen LTO. They should have no issues doing up to 8 miles on a full charge. However I ran into a problem.

The 10S 5 amp active LTO balancer I got does not seem to be working. Unlike the 1.2 amp balancers there is no LED lights to show it is working. The fuses I bought for the balance wires are 10 amp but the holders and wires are way too big. I hooked them up anyway. It was to protect the balance board from short circuit just in case a cell does reverse polarity.

I had a fire awhile back with old 8 Ah Headway cells. It caught a 12S 1.2 amp balance board on fire so I fuse protect all balance wires now. I was hoping for 18 gauge wires to mini fuse holders with wires but got 10 gauge instead with large fuse holders.

I hooked up the balancer and checked the cells the next day after charging and had cells >3V and other cells around 2.4V. Fully charged each cell should be around 3.65V for LTO. This is a problem. I contacted the seller and requested a replacement. Even if that happens it takes at least a month for shipping.

My solution is to hook up balance wires and externally balance with my 6S balancers. To do that I will need to balance half the pack with one balancer and the other 5 with another balancer. I have two 6S LTO packs that I did that with and they are all between 3.6 and 3.7V.

I really need to run 10S LTO as my old LIFEPO4 packs are on their way out as taking longer and longer to charge indication even lower capacity. It used to charge from 20% to 85 to 95% in about an hour. Now it takes about 2 to 3 hours to get it to around 80%.

Today I will check for self discharge on the LIFEPO4 and check to see if the LTO balancer has done anything balance wise compared to yesterday. Later I will hook up wires for external balancing. I got solder at Wall fart yesterday.

3: 52 PM.

I just checked both the LIFEPO4 batteries and the LTO pack.. Two out of three LIFE packs need balancing and the 10S LTO pack seems to be better. There is still cells at 2.4V but the highest is 2.7V now down from 3.2V 24 hours ago. My problem is I paid for a 5 amp active balancer. It should balance a pack quickly compared to a 1.2 amp balancer.

I hooked the 28V charger up to it. I just got it back today. My friend was using it as he was waiting on his proper 29.2V 8S LIFEPO4 charger. I had it as I has to solder alligator clips to it so he could use it as both chargers came with the 3 pin cable. I used the 29.2V charger before which might have contributed to the high cells > 3V.

I will measure voltage for each cell when the 28V charger fully charges the pack and see if there is any balancing going on. Like I said though a 5 amp balancer should balance way faster than a 2 amp charger. The pack should be perfectly balanced when it is fully charged. I wanted to upgrade to a 4 or 5 amp charger for charging out on the road.

The only reason I had a fire with the old 12S LIFEPO4 pack was because I ran it twice that day. A 8 mile round trip and actually did get a full charge on my 10 amp 43.6V charger. < 2 miles later I had the fire. It was because the 1.2 amp balancer was not able to keep up with the 10 amp charger. I should have waited until all the LED lights went out on the balancer and NOT run it when it was lit up like a Christmas tree.

Now this 5 amp balancer has no LED lights at all so have no way of knowing if the unit is working or not without testing each cell. I am not happy about that and need to solder the balance wires for external balancing as soon as it reaches a full charge and I test each cell again. If by some miracle they are all really close then I might not need to externally balance. That would be great but not getting my hopes up.

Thanks.

Skyler out.
 
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Your 8/44t selection will never survive. Assuming the 8t drive sprocket survives a test run, it'll scream like a horny bull elk during rut.
 
Your 8/44t selection will never survive. Assuming the 8t drive sprocket survives a test run, it'll scream like a horny bull elk during rut.
+1 to this. Plus however many.

Unless there's some inflexible, unavoidable reason to do so, it's always a bad idea to use a chain sprocket with fewer than 13 teeth. 16t is much better yet, and from 21t on up, there's not significant benefit in bigger sprockets.

The smaller the tooth count, the rougher the chain mesh, faster the chain wear, greater the efficiency losses, and noisier the whole thing gets. Use a smaller pitch chain if you must, to avoid stupidly low tooth counts.
 
It will work flawlessly. No issues. I have run 8 tooth sprockets before on single motors. #410. The smaller 8mm and #25 9T sprockets make more noise and the #25 is just too small and will wear out quickly.

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Two 8T motor sprockets will be way better than one however as a lot more teeth coming in contact with the chain.

I unhooked the 10S balancer and all the fuses and 10 gauge wires. I ran 18 gauge wires to two 6S balance plugs with the red wires cut. I am using two 5 in one cell checker balancers.

I just got finished and hooked them up just before this post. It will take awhile as the pack is way out of balance. It might even take a day but after that should only take a few minutes to balance.

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Thanks for posting.

Skyler out.
 
This is for 20 inch rear wheel, yes?

For the motors to survive any kind of hill, you need to reduce the wheel RPM down below 300 under load.

So you’re looking for an 8:1 reduction.

#25 is what you NEED to use. 11t motor, 90t at wheel.

If the motors cope, you can up the motor sprockets to 12t.

Either way, you’ve got less total tooth engagement with dual motors - you need an idler sprocket between them or the chain WILL skip under load.
 
The smaller 8mm and #25 9T sprockets make more noise and the #25 is just too small and will wear out quickly.

That's also ANSI #35 chain, which is chonky but shorter enough in pitch to get you to 13t without much more diameter on the sprockets.

View attachment 342389


Two 8T motor sprockets will be way better than one however as a lot more teeth coming in contact with the chain.

Industrial standards dictate a minimum of 120 degrees of wrap around any sprocket in a chain drive. The way your diagram suggests, you'll have more teeth on the chain, but poorer engagement. You could improve it with an idler gear-- but why not use a 1000W motor, one drive gear, and not need extra nonsense?
 
I could answer that, but I’ll let Skyler.

You might also point Skyler to an industrial standard that covers relative cog orientation and explain why the near vertical one he’s proposing is problematic.
 
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