LiFePO4 Battery Showdown!

[OneEye]

Don't forget the last-minute updates that happened after 1066 when the programmers were directed to incorporate some of the advances in French 1.2 into the English 2.0 source code.

In the upcoming version of American English 3.2 we've started to roll some of the formats from Spanish 2.0 into the lexicon in order to maintain upgrade compatibility with other operating systems.

 

[xyster]

:lol: ^ :lol: That's almost 2.0 funny.

 

[Mark_A_W]

Patronizing...publicize.....brutalize..

Are all spelled with a "S", not a "Z". Your whole country can't spell

Get it right:
Patronising...publicise.....brutalise.

 

[BiGH]

now now boyz.

But seriously that soft pack looks good, is there a reason the cells are all in line insted of staggered to provide a smaller (but not square) pack?

It'd be great to see a 72v20ah pack or 2x 36v 20ah packs made with staggered cells. Depending on the size, a pack that would fit in the triangle of a bike would be mad. I'd settle for in the panny racks tough!

 

[recumbent]

is there a reason the cells are all in line instead of staggered to provide a smaller (but not square) pack?

The cells are so well designed with the threaded ends, that it would be easy enough for any handyman to assemble our own custom arrangement.

I see your point though, I want 2 x 24volt flat (staggared & compact) one for each side of pannier.

 

[BiGH]

is there a reason the cells are all in line instead of staggered to provide a smaller (but not square) pack?

The cells are so well designed with the threaded ends, that it would be easy enough for any handyman to assemble our own custom arrangement.

I see your point though, I want 2 x 24volt flat (staggared & compact) one for each side of pannier.

Yes thats true, but since don's making packs that are clearly pre-made, it would be great to offer a few different form factors, not that it would be hard, but it would save the effort for the hobbiests, and increase profits for Don! (clearly the option of loose cells still needs to be there. The only reason i brought it up was because i think it would be great to have a high quality turn key option.

ie if new members to endless-sphere came on asking for advice, suggesting a ctylte motor specific to their purposes, and one of the NEW controllers, with a premade lifebatt pack or a puma motor and one of their new controllers with a premade lifebatt pack would make for an excellent bulletproof starting point.

i'm currently thinking about a velomachine with multiple motors, i will most likely use lifebatts for that combined with 3 pumas. But i'll be doing the custom built option with the life batts - making one cell thick flat packs, to keep the center of gravity low

 

[Battboy]

In response to the many suggestions and ideas LiFeBATT has listened to the E-Bike market and we are adding an E-Bike configuration to our SOFTPAK Program. It is described in the attached Jpeg. illustration, and is available for Order now!

E - BIKE PANNIER PACK MODULES
Sold in 36V / 10Ah Modules consisting of 12 Cells &
(3) VMS boards in SOFTPAK configuration. Optional
Standard Charger. Customer provides their own case
(shown in Blue dashed outline).
Overall Dimensions: 3.25" x 12" x 7.5" Weight: 13 lbs.

PRICE: $ 810.00 USD / 36V / 10Ah Module
$ 175.00 USD / 36V LiFeBATT Charger

WARRANTY: 2 Years (1,500 Cycles) on all SOFTPAKS

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[DeeL2003]

In response to the many suggestions and ideas LiFeBATT has listened to the E-Bike market and we are adding an E-Bike configuration to our SOFTPAK Program. It is described in the attached Jpeg. illustration, and is available for Order now!

E - BIKE PANNIER PACK MODULES
Sold in 36V / 10Ah Modules consisting of 12 Cells &
(3) VMS boards in SOFTPAK configuration. Optional
Standard Charger. Customer provides their own case
(shown in Blue dashed outline).
Overall Dimensions: 3.25" x 12" x 7.5" Weight: 13 lbs.

PRICE: $ 810.00 USD / 36V / 10Ah Module
$ 175.00 USD / 36V LiFeBATT Charger

WARRANTY: 2 Years (1,500 Cycles) on all SOFTPAKS

Best,

Don Harmon

Uhhmmm Don aren't you forgetting us 48v guys? :? :lol: How about 24v modules? j/k Looks simple enough to do our own with the threaded ends.

 

[Battboy]

Uhhmmm Don aren't you forgetting us 48v guys? How about 24v modules? j/k Looks simple enough to do our own with the threaded ends.

Not at all - Scroll UP and look at a 24V SOFTPAK ! We have em available in 12V, 24V, 48 V, and up to Auto size - it's totally modular.

Cheers!

Don

 

[GGoodrum]

Uhhmmm Don aren't you forgetting us 48v guys? :? :lol: How about 24v modules? j/k Looks simple enough to do our own with the threaded ends.

I agree, most here that are going to buy these things are going to want to use them in 48V (16s) setups, minimum. Myself, I'm trying to standardize on 20s setups. Others will want to do 72V/24s, so I guess they could use two of these 12-cell setups, but for the rest, clearly a different setup is needed.

Before spending $50 for a 4-cell BMS, it would be nice to know what exactly is included. For instance, will this include cell balancing for the 4 cells? How is the LVC function implemented?

I'm working on a much simpler approach. Basically, it will use heavy-duty circuit boards that will bolt to the cells. The boards will also contain the same, very simple, LVC logic that will pull down the Brake Inhibit line on the controller, which then cuts the load. This is much simpler than having to have active cutoff, using multiple FETs and all the control logic that goes with it. Also, the controllers already have current limiting functions, so this doesn't need to be part of the pack's BMS either, in my opinion. Anyway, I'm still trying to work out what the form factors want to be, but at a minimum, I think I will do 6-cell, 8-cell and 10 cell setups.

-- Gary

 

[xyster]

ie if new members to endless-sphere came on asking for advice, suggesting a ctylte motor specific to their purposes, and one of the NEW controllers, with a premade lifebatt pack or a puma motor and one of their new controllers with a premade lifebatt pack would make for an excellent bulletproof starting point.

Bad suggestion. Too formulaic, rigid for flexible and personal DIY ebike applications, and prone to brand-loyalty pollution.
The way we do it now, by people who want to offering their own suggestions with corroborating information while leaving the decisions to the person buying the product is much better, and also has the advantage of sparking a debate through which we all learn pertinent info.

 

[Battboy]

I find myself spending 90% of my time trying to explain and answer hundreds of questions about how our Lifepo4 cells & VMS operate which is leaving me little time to develop the larger format Lifepo4 Packs for cars and aircraft.

Therefore LiFeBATT will drop the e-bike sales idea altogether and develop the larger cell market. I promise we intend to return once the larger (more profitable market) is more fully developed; and hopefully by the time we return consumers will be more aware and better educated of the advantages of the LiFeBATT Lifepo4.

When we do return - hopefully we'll also be able to offer better pricing based on mass volume production of our cells ?

Best of luck to you all!

Don Harmon

 

[GGoodrum]

I find myself spending 90% of my time trying to explain and answer hundreds of questions about how our Lifepo4 cells & VMS operate which is leaving me little time to develop the larger format Lifepo4 Packs for cars and aircraft.

Therefore LiFeBATT will drop the e-bike sales idea altogether and develop the larger cell market. I promise we intend to return once the larger (more profitable market) is more fully developed; and hopefully by the time we return consumers will be more aware and better educated of the advantages of the LiFeBATT Lifepo4.

When we do return - hopefully we'll also be able to offer better pricing based on mass volume production of our cells ?

Best of luck to you all!

Don Harmon

Can we still buy raw cells at $55 each?

 

[Battboy]

YES, but we cannot warranty them unless they are part of a real Pack that incorporates our VMS & Chargers. So, I doubt that many folks will want to buy our cells in raw form ?

Sorry, but this is just the way it is right now. The cells are fine and they perform as advertised - but Warranty is only available on Factory Built Packs !

Best,

Don Harmon

 

[xyster]

Strange policy as the competition from retailers such as all-battery.com, batteryspace.com, and a bazillion RC places warranty both their raw cells and their packs, while keeping the price reasonable.

 

[Battboy]

I will check with the factory,...If we can't Warranty them for 2 Years, we won't even sell them! I will let you all know ?

Don

 

[oatnet]

I hope everyone is safe there in South Cal. the fire is unbelievable.

Ride safe

efreak

I live about 5 miles south of the fire in Orange Conty. We're fine, but we have about an inch of soot everywhere. The air is bad. The sky looks like an apocolyptic scene out of a bad sci-fi movie.

A marine layer seems to be protecting us down by the beach in LA, there is a bubble of clear sky around the South Bay, and I've still be been riding 25 + miles every day. The sunsets are odd though - here are some pics from Monday Night.

I don't know WTF is up with attachments - I want the red sunset picture (yep, that is exactly what the sky looked like, check it full size) first but the *)(@#$#%^ forum software puts it last - whether it is the first picture I add or the last. Oh well.

-JD

 

[oatnet]

Therefore LiFeBATT will drop the e-bike sales idea altogether and develop the larger cell market.
Don Harmon

Wow, that is faster than even I expected. I guess we won't be getting that factory report you promised on this thread a week or so back? The one that backs up your unsubstantiated assertion that all Chinese LiFe cells fail within 3 months of factory testing?

...hopefully by the time we return consumers will be more aware and better educated of the advantages of the LiFeBATT Lifepo4.

I can think of no better opportunity to 'educate consumers on the advantages of LiFeBaitt' than by publishing that report, it would back up your frequent trashing of any LiFe product cheaper than the one YOU were planning on selling.

It is within your power to establish your comments as Propaganda or as Fact - I can't wait to see which you choose.

-JD

 

[recumbent]

I find myself spending 90% of my time trying to explain and answer hundreds of questions...
Therefore LiFeBATT will drop the e-bike sales idea altogether and develop the larger cell market.

Does this mean he didn't meet his sales quota in the few weeks of Lifebatt announcement?

Well I for one, never make hasty $1000 purchase overnight.

The Lifebatt's are perfect for my 48 volt application, but it's almost November and we buy this stuff in Feb or March 2008!

Hope they realize this condition of the northern hemisphere, which BTW is where most of the upper middlclass live .

 

[docnjoj]

I'm sorry, Don, that U couldnt bring those cells to market yet! I just wanted to point out that Batteryspace only will warrantee their Lithium packs for 30 days, and will only replace or repair them! Not a great deal from a large supplier!
Doc

 

[xyster]

I'm sorry, Don, that U couldnt bring those cells to market yet! I just wanted to point out that Batteryspace only will warrantee their Lithium packs for 30 days, and will only replace or repair them! Not a great deal from a large supplier!
Doc

Much better than no warranty since the majority of problems relate to defectively manufactured merchandise. And it's 90 days for cells.
http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=1
Three years is not great if you have to buy an overweight, and overly expensive pack in order to get it.

 

[Malcolm]

Don,

Surely you wouldn't have to answer so many questions if you could post clear and consistent information on your website about the performance and specifications of these cells and packs? I can't imagine that customers for larger (and more expensive) EV packs will be willing to buy without such information either. I realise that margins are small when setting up a business like this and you have to focus your efforts where they're most effective, but good, honest information pays big dividends in my opinion.

Cheers
Malcolm

 

[TylerDurden]

Three years ain't bad, if the pack pukes in 100 days or 900 days.

This might be a great opportunity for a cottage biz: building LB packs for ebikes and covering the risk. If enough margin is exercised, the integrator can make a profit and ebikers can enjoy LBs benefits.

 

[xyster]

Three years ain't bad, if the pack pukes in 100 days or 900 days.

This might be a great opportunity for a cottage biz: building LB packs for ebikes and covering the risk. If enough margin is exercised, the integrator can make a profit and ebikers can enjoy LBs benefits.

Knowing ebikers as we do here, would you risk such a venture?

 

[DeeL2003]

I find myself spending 90% of my time trying to explain and answer hundreds of questions about how our Lifepo4 cells & VMS operate which is leaving me little time to develop the larger format Lifepo4 Packs for cars and aircraft.

Therefore LiFeBATT will drop the e-bike sales idea altogether and develop the larger cell market. I promise we intend to return once the larger (more profitable market) is more fully developed; and hopefully by the time we return consumers will be more aware and better educated of the advantages of the LiFeBATT Lifepo4.

When we do return - hopefully we'll also be able to offer better pricing based on mass volume production of our cells ?

Best of luck to you all!

Don Harmon

What?! You went from constantly announcing new product info: Modules out this November TO oooops they're too heavy so there's a delay TO Okay we'll start selling individual cells, VMS,etc TO we'll now make ebike softpaks TO ooh man you guys ask too many questions so we're dropping ebikes all together. Weird. Just tell us that you're not quite ready to market right now because we don't have the form factor down or the VMS is still killing cells.

Hey at least we have other options out there.