LightningRods mid drive kit
- Thread starter spinningmagnets
- Start date
izeman
1 GW
i haven't seen any negative feedback on this page either. only constructive improvements and working together.Gab said:
Mammalian04
100 kW
BRK said:
Ha, nice. Your effort was not lost one me BRK.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Had a chat with LightningRods last night, he is packing orders and getting them ready for shipping.
LightningRods
1 MW
On Sunday Dec 7th one of my closest friends died. He had just gone in for 'routine' surgery on his foot to repair an old fracture. After a couple of days recovering at home he threw a blood clot to his heart and died instantly. I've had a rough week dealing with this loss.
That said, I kept coming into the shop and continued to get work done. I've completed Walter's 100mm big block as well as Andrew F's 100mm BB small block and Paul D's 100mm small block. The upper and lower bracket assemblies are ready for Thomas F, Richard K, Dean M, Derek M and Tom E. Zach J has the first big block motor on a 73mm BB and I am still working to get the spacing right. The 73mm BB axle is 5mm longer than a 100mm Gigapipe (148mm vs 143mm) but it's offset to the right to balance the short BB shell width. I'm reworking everything to create enough clearance on the left side. It will fit because the narrower 143mm fits. It's just taking some time.
Here are the upcoming orders that I've already started work on:
Nathan B
Fabrice V
Steven H
Jason S
Darren
You may have noticed a pattern of five kits per week. That is what I'm doing my best to hold to right now. Because the custom BB width kits require so much extra fiddling to make everything fit and line up properly I'm going to make batches of 68mm small blocks. Most builders and certainly commercial companies are smart enough to only offer 68mm width kits. They do this to keep things simple for themselves, to reduce inventory and to speed production. I offer eight different BB brackets with two different width motors. That's sixteen possible combinations. If I had a word of advice for an aspiring kit manufacturer it would be to not do as I have done. It's a time hole and will overwhelm you.
In addition to moving these kits forward I'm designing a new mid bike mounted mid drive for a custom fat bike which Eric at electricbike.com will be offering for sale on E-S. It uses the big block motor and does not drive through the BB. I'm also working on a mid bike mid drive for the Surley Big Dummy cargo bike.
Sorry that I didn't post last week. I just wasn't in the mood for it.
That said, I kept coming into the shop and continued to get work done. I've completed Walter's 100mm big block as well as Andrew F's 100mm BB small block and Paul D's 100mm small block. The upper and lower bracket assemblies are ready for Thomas F, Richard K, Dean M, Derek M and Tom E. Zach J has the first big block motor on a 73mm BB and I am still working to get the spacing right. The 73mm BB axle is 5mm longer than a 100mm Gigapipe (148mm vs 143mm) but it's offset to the right to balance the short BB shell width. I'm reworking everything to create enough clearance on the left side. It will fit because the narrower 143mm fits. It's just taking some time.
Here are the upcoming orders that I've already started work on:
Nathan B
Fabrice V
Steven H
Jason S
Darren
You may have noticed a pattern of five kits per week. That is what I'm doing my best to hold to right now. Because the custom BB width kits require so much extra fiddling to make everything fit and line up properly I'm going to make batches of 68mm small blocks. Most builders and certainly commercial companies are smart enough to only offer 68mm width kits. They do this to keep things simple for themselves, to reduce inventory and to speed production. I offer eight different BB brackets with two different width motors. That's sixteen possible combinations. If I had a word of advice for an aspiring kit manufacturer it would be to not do as I have done. It's a time hole and will overwhelm you.
In addition to moving these kits forward I'm designing a new mid bike mounted mid drive for a custom fat bike which Eric at electricbike.com will be offering for sale on E-S. It uses the big block motor and does not drive through the BB. I'm also working on a mid bike mid drive for the Surley Big Dummy cargo bike.
Sorry that I didn't post last week. I just wasn't in the mood for it.
r3volved
100 kW
Thanks for the update and the diligence
...is that me typo'd twice, or 2 nate's?
...is that me typo'd twice, or 2 nate's?
LightningRods
1 MW
There's just one Nate. I was going off of my payment list which showed two payments coming in from Nathan B. You just made Darren (cheekybloke) very happy. He's on the list now.
r3volved
100 kW
Yay Darren
...I just read that first part...very sorry for your loss Mike.
...I just read that first part...very sorry for your loss Mike.
LightningRods
1 MW
I'm always reluctant to talk about personal stuff when I'm working. Both of my parents passed away within three days of each other while I was working on a huge project with a deadline. This was between Christmas and New Years in '07. I didn't tell the client what was going on until the job was completed. Personal stuff always sounds like excuse making when there's work to be done.
Thanks for the good wishes. Onward and upward....
Thanks for the good wishes. Onward and upward....
cheekybloke
1 kW
I must have been a good boy this year,a big block kit and a custom frame is what i am getting.
Mike you are the man
Darren
Mike you are the man
Darren
Cryptic
10 W
Sorry to hear of your loss, Mike. My sympathies.
stonezone
100 W
No worries on the extra time for my BB Mike. I'm all good with your schedule, real life doesn't always cooperate.
Thanks,
Z
Thanks,
Z
LightningRods
1 MW
Here you can see how the BB axle on the 100mm BB cartridge is actually 5mm shorter than the 83mm or 68-73mm made for electric bikes.
This shot shows how the extra offset for chainwheel clearance on the right side makes the 68-73 and 83 shorter on the left side when installed. This isn't a problem with small block installations, but the big block is a full inch wider through the motor case. This puts the left crank arm right into the primary driver pulley.
Since what matters is the overall length of the BB axle the 68-73s and 83s will work. I just have to offset the spacing on the BB bracket to make it more centered on the motor bracket. If you want a big block kit you're going to have to be happy with one chainwheel. That's true of all BB widths. How many gears do you really need with this much torque?
This shot shows how the extra offset for chainwheel clearance on the right side makes the 68-73 and 83 shorter on the left side when installed. This isn't a problem with small block installations, but the big block is a full inch wider through the motor case. This puts the left crank arm right into the primary driver pulley.
Since what matters is the overall length of the BB axle the 68-73s and 83s will work. I just have to offset the spacing on the BB bracket to make it more centered on the motor bracket. If you want a big block kit you're going to have to be happy with one chainwheel. That's true of all BB widths. How many gears do you really need with this much torque?
LightningRods
1 MW
Here's Zach's big block/73mm BB combination. This is the first kit that I've built installing a big block on a narrower BB. You can see that having all of the aluminum spacer length on the left like I normally do is not going to work here. The left crank hits the primary driver pulley.
Instead of one long set of spacers on the left I'm going to need to have shorter spacers on the left and a second set on the right to position the BB axle correctly. Shoehorning the big block in between the pedal cranks on a bicycle is very much like trying to fit a big block ICE between the front shock towers of most cars. It's always a snug fit and typically some massaging is needed.
Instead of one long set of spacers on the left I'm going to need to have shorter spacers on the left and a second set on the right to position the BB axle correctly. Shoehorning the big block in between the pedal cranks on a bicycle is very much like trying to fit a big block ICE between the front shock towers of most cars. It's always a snug fit and typically some massaging is needed.
Hi Mike !... and Hi to all the builders here
I have put my money down on one of Mikes kits - to start my new build on my 2007 Kona Stinky Primo.
I am a third year engineering student - and have decided to make this build - my final year graduation project.
as such...i must document and calculate everything - in order to justify and defend my project. (like a Thesis).
So my appologies ahead of time - if i ask too many detailed technical questions - as i not only need the bike to work! but also to be able to prove by numbers and calculations - how it works! :wink:
I have been on this site (and others)for over a two months learning and gathering info - so as to ask as few stupid questions as possible...but still..have many.
So for the sake of others after me ( and since im doing it for my project anyway!) i will post as many of the build details here as possible..
So for starters - my Goals:
To make a downhill Electric bike - capable of taking me on my daily commute - of 30Km (roundtrip) on one charge! All off road! including about 300m acumulative climb on the way.(as driving on the highways is too scary!)
To make the 15Km (one way) to work..in less than 40Min. (so i dont have to get up at the crack of dawn!) as i have to be at work at 7:15! and so i can get home quickly.. this means a 40 kph average speed (as roughly half the trip is uphill and the rest is flat) then half the time i will be going half the speed(15kph) uphill.and half the time - one and a half times the speed(65kph) on the flat - all of this on dirt roads! or trails. with big fat, high friction, power eating tires!
For the bike to still be a viable agile downhill bike! - with the added ability to climb back up to the top of the Track! (without having to pedal too much - or get shutteled back to the top) - and make as many Downhill runs as possible on one charge!
For the Batteries to be compact enough - to fit in a backpack - or on the bike.
Now for the bike:
Its a Top of the line Model of the 2007 Stinky - with The floating brake system - thats been heavily upgraded !
Front Fork - 2008 Marzzochi 888 World cup Rear shock - Marzzochi Rocco.
Dangerboy 780mm riser bar handlebars with ODI grips.
Brakes - Hope Tech M4 four piston calipers on Hope floating disc rotors 203mm front/180mm rear .
Shimano deore drivetrain - with SRAM X-7 shifters and derailer.
Maxxis 2.5 rear and 2.7 inch front downhill tires on QUAD rims.
View attachment 5
I have put my money down on one of Mikes kits - to start my new build on my 2007 Kona Stinky Primo.
I am a third year engineering student - and have decided to make this build - my final year graduation project.
as such...i must document and calculate everything - in order to justify and defend my project. (like a Thesis).
So my appologies ahead of time - if i ask too many detailed technical questions - as i not only need the bike to work! but also to be able to prove by numbers and calculations - how it works! :wink:
I have been on this site (and others)for over a two months learning and gathering info - so as to ask as few stupid questions as possible...but still..have many.
So for the sake of others after me ( and since im doing it for my project anyway!) i will post as many of the build details here as possible..
So for starters - my Goals:
To make a downhill Electric bike - capable of taking me on my daily commute - of 30Km (roundtrip) on one charge! All off road! including about 300m acumulative climb on the way.(as driving on the highways is too scary!)
To make the 15Km (one way) to work..in less than 40Min. (so i dont have to get up at the crack of dawn!) as i have to be at work at 7:15! and so i can get home quickly.. this means a 40 kph average speed (as roughly half the trip is uphill and the rest is flat) then half the time i will be going half the speed(15kph) uphill.and half the time - one and a half times the speed(65kph) on the flat - all of this on dirt roads! or trails. with big fat, high friction, power eating tires!
For the bike to still be a viable agile downhill bike! - with the added ability to climb back up to the top of the Track! (without having to pedal too much - or get shutteled back to the top) - and make as many Downhill runs as possible on one charge!
For the Batteries to be compact enough - to fit in a backpack - or on the bike.
Now for the bike:
Its a Top of the line Model of the 2007 Stinky - with The floating brake system - thats been heavily upgraded !
Front Fork - 2008 Marzzochi 888 World cup Rear shock - Marzzochi Rocco.
Dangerboy 780mm riser bar handlebars with ODI grips.
Brakes - Hope Tech M4 four piston calipers on Hope floating disc rotors 203mm front/180mm rear .
Shimano deore drivetrain - with SRAM X-7 shifters and derailer.
Maxxis 2.5 rear and 2.7 inch front downhill tires on QUAD rims.
View attachment 5
ksithumper
100 mW
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 45
Check your average speed calc - you won't need as much as 50kph to average 25km/h, if the other half the time you are running at 12.5 km/h.
Good luck with the build, nice project.
Good luck with the build, nice project.
LightningRods
1 MW
This is going to be a sweet bike. Here's a photo of Vincent D's Kona Stinky with the stretch kit installed:
.. thats what i get for writing without consulting my design notes!...dont know where i got those numbers from! So..in my efforts to gather information for my build - and in order to try and make informed descisions i have tried verry hard to find hard facts - and information - to "build apon"..
and ended up writing this info page - about the kit..
please feel free to correct me.. if anything is incorrect about it. - as all the rest of my descisions - are based on it 8)
thanks!
View attachment Lightning Rods mid drive motor kit (small block).pdf
and ended up writing this info page - about the kit..
please feel free to correct me.. if anything is incorrect about it. - as all the rest of my descisions - are based on it 8)
thanks!
View attachment Lightning Rods mid drive motor kit (small block).pdf
LightningRods
1 MW
A couple of corrections:
My motor case width on the small block kit is 78mm. The GNG motors are 68mm.
On the 219 secondary drive you also have the option of changing driver sprockets. The range is 12T through 18T. The way that reduction affects the performance and the riding experience of the bike is interesting. You have a range from slow pedaling cadence and incredible torque with slow top speed up to impossibly fast pedaling cadence, weaker climbing and acceleration and more gearing than the motor can pull. I don't recommend a 18/64 secondary combination but it's available.
My motor case width on the small block kit is 78mm. The GNG motors are 68mm.
On the 219 secondary drive you also have the option of changing driver sprockets. The range is 12T through 18T. The way that reduction affects the performance and the riding experience of the bike is interesting. You have a range from slow pedaling cadence and incredible torque with slow top speed up to impossibly fast pedaling cadence, weaker climbing and acceleration and more gearing than the motor can pull. I don't recommend a 18/64 secondary combination but it's available.
LightningRods said:
Ohh..? o.k.! soo that totaly changes the picture! thats great! since my biggest descision at the moment is what final drive sprocket to order..as I was not sure what kind of final speeds i would be getting..
So i made up a speed calculator to try and help me decide! but now i will have to ammend the calculator to accomodate these options too.. since this allows for more flexibility in the system..then i will post it for review.
still not sure if i will be able to keep both front chainrings with the kit installed or not...
and this is critical to the speed issue..Was Vincent D able to keep both of his?? do you know? his seems to be the closest build to mine so far..(the frame is maybe a 2008?..a year newer than mine i think)
I will correct the info page to..and re-post it.
Thanks
Tim
