LightningRods mid drive kit

[John Bozi]

New Build in mind John? I suspect someday I'll need to start selling some. I guess I'm a hoarder...

He Mammailan, no new build in mind while she runs. Don't think LR m6 would sell for a price worthy of parting for. The longer I keep it the more I invest. The loop goes deeper.
When the bike runs, it's the best bike off road you can find. It takes a lot of love in time and pocket.

Bike riding has cost me a lot of money, some directly and some indirectly. Just bought a van specifically to be able to take the bike out to new terrain. I used to think I needed more AH, but I am pretty scared to get deeper in than what 5ah get me into now and would much rather stay safer return distances with a lighter (and more technically capable) bike than riding something I can't pick up even further distances...

I also hate riding my off road bike on road to get to different parts because it wears down tyres and of course uses up my battery before starting to have real fun.

Can't wait for the van to arrive. Life used to be, go for a ride locally and then take my family somewhere. Now, it will take them somewhere and me opening the escape hatch and blasting out into the wilderness up and down the coast. Weather no matter.

Inside reminds of something inside a star wars craft.

bit off topic sorry

 

[Mammalian04]

Nice, and I see you already have tie down hooks! Shoot us some photos of the new steed loaded with the old steed!

 

[John Bozi]

[youtube]J5rx5Amp3f4[/youtube]

got to some new trail was fun.

 

[Samer]

Hey notger

How ur LR go with adaptto controller? Which one do u have? Cheers

Hi,

since awhile i'm getting mor and more greedy about power.
So right now i push the small-block (actually the original gng) to 2000 Watts
Works pretty nice, the only downside is the hight temperature after a while.
On my adaptto controller i have really good overview about temperature rise and fall.

So today i was riding a pretty rough uphill-trail for several minutes with 2kw.
But temperature kept under 100°C cause it was cold enough outside.

So,... sure it would be on the time to change to the next bigger size of motor,
but cause i see that the smallblock handles 2kw well in cold temperature i rather go with more cooling, than more mass.

so i added a graphic with a rough idea of my plan, and to be honest i did not open my gngn for a while, so i'm not totally sure how much space there would be inside for a fan. but like i said, just a rough idea.

Now my question to you, do you think it's worth it (cooling-effect-wise) ?
and does anyone know of any kind of mesh or material wich would let air and heat trough oneside but shed water and humidity on the other ? (for covering the 6 airhole on the motor cover)

greets

notger

 

[pkirkll]

goretex?????

 

[pkirkll]

Does anyone know the difference between a non broached adapter for the JS? (or motor for that matter)

Are they weaker?

I am thinking that the easiest to change out sprocket is the small one on the jackshaft because the chain can have more slack here with the spring loaded tensioner. It would be so cool to just change sizes determined by terrain on the fly. Just need to carry a hex.....

Why did my mind go to the Honda CT 110 Trail with the dual sprockets---- I don't have a clue what the js has for space but if you were going to be wanting to change ratios often what about something like a step pulley or maybe a shaft with two sprockets like a front chainring....

 

[Samer]

lightning rods mid drive had this wobble on a crank freewheel?
any help ? thanks

[youtube]3izFyfI3Z6s[/youtube]

 

[spinningmagnets]

One of the parts looks like its a little "off" from the factory. Maybe the threads on the trials crank arm, or the flanged freewheel.

 

[Miles]

There's no guarantee of concentricity between the freewheel threads on the crank arm and the axle mount... It's simply not something that's important for the intended use and therefore no trouble is taken over it.....

 

[John Bozi]

Wobble comes with the kit down there new.

It's not what anyone wants to see but the bike still runs. The issues it causes can manifest themselves deeper into the experience though. At over bafang power levels every nuance of poor manufacture gets echoed. The bicycle chainrings that come with the kit are the cyclone styled ones which will let you know in a less than 100ah they need replacing.

Sick bike parts sprockets which I guess are cyclone sprockets too, take about 200ah and they are solid for warping unlike the chainrings on the kits. Unfortunately the teeth will wear down in that time and hook and start catching at the end of the cycle of the sprocket. Pulling the chain up ) pulling the tensioner eventually ) jumping around and mashing up everything.

I've been through this many times in half a year.

best thing is that my chainring isn't connected via the LR adapter 4 hole race face interface that is standard but via the freewheel. The sbp sprocket will survive these fails much better than stock but will the teeth hooking is a huge problem for running higher power levels still.

As much as the kit fails when it runs the gearing you can choose is what keeps me going. It however does seem that sprocket life is similar to tyre grip.

If I rode this thing 10ah a day I guess I would need at least a sprocket a month.

Sad but true. You could spend a $ and get custom after market parts.

 

[Alex07]

As much as the kit fails when it runs the gearing you can choose is what keeps me going. It however does seem that sprocket life is similar to tyre grip.

If I rode this thing 10ah a day I guess I would need at least a sprocket a month.

wow that's pretty bad if the life of chainrings is so short ? maybe its because their is too much reduction and hence torque on the bicycle chains ? i haven't seen anyone say that about the cyclone type kits that make similar or more power but have a lot higher crank RPM?

 

[Mammalian04]

Out with the bicycle chains, in with the 219.

 

[ElectricGod]

Out with the bicycle chains, in with the 219.

Yeah exactly! For the 3000 watt motor, bike components are too light weight to last. They wear out way faster than they should, but then again they are being used with a motor designed to carry 3 passengers on a trike! I use the motor on a 120 pound electric scooter and I accelerate past cars all the time. My ride is in the 50cc moped range. Sometimes people in cars try to race me and I usually smoke most cars until I reach my top speed. Just saying...that's a lot of torque for bike components...of course they are going to break or wear out prematurely.

 

[John Bozi]

i haven't seen anyone say that about the cyclone type kits that make similar or more power but have a lot higher crank RPM?

I can only talk about the power levels I have used. Most people stay away from the steepness and prolonged use of 3kw+ levels. Not many document their rides either. I try my hardest to document as much as possible to give what I share a bit more cred.

My last few rides in summary.

mud mostly clogged up chain tensioner or the hooking was already problematic, tensioner failed and couldn't run power through the bike or pedal to get back to the car. Was running a bit over 3kw.

[youtube]KUeayz8SfwU[/youtube]

Had a great ride a short while after no problems and was caked in mud again but not as wet. Was running 2.5kw. The big QS hub motor was overheating a lot = like 100 degrees celcius more than mine temp..., but it handled the single track much better because the throttle creep / delay I have set up is made to be slow for longer trails which you can predict better.

[youtube]ZLLSY-CNBqo[/youtube]

After that ride I went for a simple dry clean ride in 5 minutes tensioner and chain lunched themselves. Was a long drive to get to a good spot to ride.....

While I wait weeks for parts to fix things properly, the only quick solution I could get to work is a new chain (too thin will snap soon) but will fit with a zip tied shimano derailuer. and discovered all the problems may have been due to hooking. I changed to the only other sprocket I had around which was 24t..... So I have gone from 30t about 40kmh to a 24t just over 30kmh.

I went for a couple of test rides and then up the mountain. Slow but at 2kw You can climb so much although bogging.

I climbed 300 metre elevation in 4km. and only 40 degrees celcius starting around 20 degrees ambient. When I'm alone slow speed doesn't bother me and lets me enjoy the scenery more. Only took about 10 mins I think.

This is what I love about this kit. It's the total perfection of gearing you can choose to do what you ride. Coming down was all the speed thrills I ever need.

Last vid is not of the ride but just the before and after it. I do love my new Berlingo, rachet straps and iPhone carplay on the dash.

Always park downhill Stonezone said

[youtube]DU5e4aXF5jw[/youtube]

 

[Mammalian04]

Nice!

 

[ElectricGod]

JB...I love ur bike frame. I would do an electric bike with that beast.

 

[John Bozi]

cheers

I went back same area and thought I might record but just kept discovering more amazing trail to feel like stopping for footage. On the last up hill before the car I thought I'd up from 2kw to 3.5kw to really get up it, but the bike lunched itself on the ridge 10 metres from the downhill descent.

I'm getting used to this bike fail thing and this spot is perfect. It was a a couple of kilometres from the car that I could enjoy with a jammed up bike all the way.

[youtube]bMqBuy_VdBU[/youtube]

 

[spinningmagnets]

I really love the LR kits, and I've been a big promoter of them from the beginning. However...if you want 3.5-kW (3500W), then I think you might be better served by either a one-speed system, or a hubmotor.

In My Humble Opinion (IMHO), The benefit of the big block over the small block kit isn't that it can use more peak power. It is that it can take more continuous power for longer periods without overheating, while still using a smaller 52V pack (full suspension frames have a difficult time fitting large 72V battery packs), due to the awesome amount of reduction, which creates more wheel-torque for the same amount of input watts.

If you want to push peak horsepower through the big block kit, I recommend a left-side drive, using #219 chain. That leaves the stock pedal-bicycle right side components with the 200W human input that they were designed for.

 

[LightningRods]

I'm currently working on a 219 single speed final drive. I'm doing right side drive because pedal power is irrelevant above 2000 watts. I looked into left hand single speed final drive. The complications created by trying to mount a sprocket next to the disc rotor, and then trying to fit the disc brake caliper, make it a very difficult DIY job. Right side drive leaves the disc brake alone. You can still pedal along single speed up to about 20 mph or so for appearances sake.

The 219 rear wheel sprockets are being laser cut from .135" stainless steel right now. I'll have a version with a Shimano spline in the center that will fit a standard freehub and another version with a 6 bolt disc rotor pattern in the center. I'll be offering a billet aluminum hub with disc rotor lugs on both the left and the right side.

 

[Mammalian04]

I'm currently working on a 219 single speed final drive. I'm doing right side drive because pedal power is irrelevant above 2000 watts. I looked into left hand single speed final drive. The complications created by trying to mount a sprocket next to the disc rotor, and then trying to fit the disc brake caliper, make it a very difficult DIY job. Right side drive leaves the disc brake alone. You can still pedal along single speed up to about 20 mph or so for appearances sake.

The 219 rear wheel sprockets are being laser cut from .135" stainless steel right now. I'll have a version with a Shimano spline in the center that will fit a standard freehub and another version with a 6 bolt disc rotor pattern in the center. I'll be offering a billet aluminum hub with disc rotor lugs on both the left and the right side.

Can't wait Mike! Super excited to get this going on the Raptors (Q76 you have and the 140 I have).

 

[spinningmagnets]

A friend (keep in mind, I'm old) purchased a new 1964 Chevy Impala with the optional 409 big block motor. He specified the manual transmission so he could choose the gear and RPM the motor was running at. He did this because he liked to take the family on vacation towing a trailer they "camped out" in. He could cross the rocky mountains (towing a heavy trailer) without the motor ever coming close to overheating.

He said it was the best car he ever bought (GM later bored it to 427, named the Z11).

When his son got old enough, the dad bought a new car and gave the son the Impala 409. Of course...the son would rev the motor and then dump the clutch at the green lights to do a burnout. Eventually, he snapped the u-joint, so...bought a beefier u-joint. Then, he twisted the drive-shaft, so he bought a beefier racing drive shaft. Then...he snapped the transmission and clutch bits, and at that point...he began telling his friends that it was the worst car he could imagine owning.

The car was the same for both owners, so what was the difference?

 

[ElectricGod]

I'm currently working on a 219 single speed final drive. I'm doing right side drive because pedal power is irrelevant above 2000 watts. I looked into left hand single speed final drive. The complications created by trying to mount a sprocket next to the disc rotor, and then trying to fit the disc brake caliper, make it a very difficult DIY job. Right side drive leaves the disc brake alone. You can still pedal along single speed up to about 20 mph or so for appearances sake.

The 219 rear wheel sprockets are being laser cut from .135" stainless steel right now. I'll have a version with a Shimano spline in the center that will fit a standard freehub and another version with a 6 bolt disc rotor pattern in the center. I'll be offering a billet aluminum hub with disc rotor lugs on both the left and the right side.

How many teeth will these sprockets have? I'm assuming something greater than the current 40 tooth sprocket? Will there be a version that fits the 5 bolt pattern on the freewheels you sell?

 

[John Bozi]

A final 219 would be an obvious improvement. I look forward to seeing an image of the chainlines from the jackshaft to bb and bb to the rear hub.

If the 219 rear is made to only fit in the centre of the rear hub it will be at an angle on my bicycle for sure. It would only fit between the motor, if the outer 219 chainring were pushed out further which would then require the jackshaft sprocket to be further out too = a longer jackshaft.

Some non bicycle styled tensioners will be needed too. I'd be guessing the push up kind either end of the chainstays.

Sounds awesome if it works and it's great to see Mike is still in 'progress'.

Spinning Magnets,

I agree that the disc brake side would be best if it weren't such a complicated area to work around. Getting around the cranks from the front is the big hurdle when talking 'multi-frame DIY-non-metal-worker-end users.
Hub motors don't cut this terrain and I am running single speed.

What's the difference?

Analogies or reality.

Too abstract?

try

What's the difference?

Backing your product and all honest customers with replacements parts or being selective to whom you will do it for.

Backing the ES community or backing the illusion?

Sophistry or ......

 

[Mammalian04]

You lost me John. Not sure what point you were making in the end? I do have a thick knoggin' though.

 

[John Bozi]

You lost me John. Not sure what point you were making in the end? I do have a thick knoggin' though.

Was answering Spinning Magics' question: "he began telling his friends that it was the worst car he could imagine owning.

The car was the same for both owners, so what was the difference?"

He was "painting a picture" of how I use the LR kit and how I use this forum in his mind.
Since we are using indirect language or other topics where we don't just say what we mean, where we just talk about other things metaphorically, I tried to explain in the same language.
Poetically shifting contexts and quoting satirically is just as acceptable once more objective explanations are out the window.

Put it in simple terms.

I prefer to show and tell people what happens and not obscure the truth. Others prefer to criticise truth with verbose language.
Reality vs illusion

If things were simple as people would like them they could just say what they meant.
People are not encouraged to be honest on this forum. If they are the hand that feeds them is cut.

We can all go on tangents since there is no need to focus and use succinct language.

Let me give you an example of pure clear language.

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