LightningRods mid drive kit

[Remus]

Right hand throttle and trigger shifters:

Thanks for your Input Alan B, I had my bike setup exactly the same way, shifting is not a big deal on the road, but once you get onto a bumpy dirt track, with logs, rocks, tree roots, its very dangerous. I had to release my grip on the bike, and slid my palm across the controls to reach the shifter. It might sound trivial, but try doing it on very rough tracks at speed, and it gets real serious real quick. I found I could ride safe as long as I slowed down to grandpa speeds. But that is NOT why I ride off road. I want the thrill of the speed and risk. Sorry for the babbling rant
I LOVE riding rough tracks at speed. Its the best buzz I can get without breaking the law... Well skydiving is actually better, but I found it too expensive, and the adrenalin rush only last's a few minutes, so I gave that up.

But I digress... I am looking for a solution that is SAFE for riding fast on rough tracks, so I can keep a grip on the bike AND shift gears AND control speed. If I had nice big hands, I would not have a problem, but my hands are small.

 

[Alan B]

I can easily reach the thumb lever without moving my hands, but I have not tried it on rough tracks yet.

A grip shift on the opposite side for the rear derailleur and a trigger for the front might be better, but I think this will work fine for me. The distance between the trigger and the throttle is not much.

The other thing is to get a better motor controller. Torque control is what you want, the PWM throttles on standard controllers are way too touchy, about six times as sensitive which makes little motions a big problem.

 

[Remus]

I have the Lyen controller Mike sell's with his kit + a full twist throttle that mike also sold me. I found the control to be pretty good.

I like your suggestion of left grip shift for rear gear control, in that case I would try a half twist throttle on the right side, as I've heard it offer's less wrist strain.

I'm also considering a standard trigger shifter setup, with a thumb throttle on the left, mounted between the gear and brake mount's.

Thanks for your input

 

[John Bozi]

In case all you "less-reduction-is-better-riders" were wondering what the largest possible tooth count on the secondary jackshaft side is.

 

[LightningRods]

Remus-

These photos are from cheekybloke. He can't post from his phone at the mo. He says you "need to cut off the offending plastic bit and make a new one with polymorph".

 

[kersley]

Lightingrod...
I didn't realise you were based in the USA.. I'm guessing to ship a kit to me here in the UK will be very expensive?
is it possible to use the Cyclone crank with your kit?
I sent you am email via your website.. did you get it?
drop me a email please brother.. kersleyv@hotmail.com
Cheers Kers

 

[LightningRods]

Yep, I'm based on the west coast of the US of A. Shipping to the UK costs more than anywhere else in Europe. France is the least expensive. It can only be what your postal systems charge at the end. Shipping a mid drive to the UK is currently about $160 USD. It's about $120 to France.

I get almost all of my various bottom brackets and crank arms from Paco at Cyclone. The quality is good and the price is right.

I haven't received an email from you yet. I'll send one to your address.

Mike

 

[Remus]

Thanks for posting the pics of cheakyblokes setup.

Looks like he may have the domino throttle.

This particular throttle has caugh my eye, as there is one side of it that is almost flush with the rest of the hand grip. And may give me room to get my small stuby fingers reach to trigger shifters.

I think the one Mike sold me is like this one from http://www.ebikes.ca aka Grin Tech.

This one has a big chunky housing for the parts holding the magnet, and spring, this is my problem. And that I have small hands

I was thinking about it last night and I think I may have come up with a "CRAZY" idea.
Please forgive my crappy image skills.
View attachment 1
If I can get a double sided pipe clamp, I can attatch it to the handle bars, then fit a pipe through the other end, just long enough to clear the throttle obstruction, and then mount the grip shifter to it, hopefuly within reach of my finger's.
Told yas it was crazy.

 

[LightningRods]

Yes I sell the Grin Tech throttle and yes Cheeky has a Domino.

 

[xnoitulos]

The six bolt disc brake flange for the rear wheel sprocket will be on the right side. The disc brake rotor will be in it's stock location on the left.

I swear I saw a photo of the hub that can do this, dual 6-bolt style. Can't seam to find it again. Any info? I'm going to be looking for a 150mm version, along with some of those #219 gears.

Have a 120A controller on the way!!

Bet your ass I'll be reporting back how it goes!!!! :lol:

 

[John Bozi]

I swear I saw a photo of the hub that can do this, dual 6-bolt style.

Are you sure you want your chain and 'safety' bb freewheel spinning all the time? It leaves only one freewheel between your spinning crank arms and your legs ... No freewheel direct to rear not connected to cranks is a different thing though.

Still I do eagerly look forward to 120a results, just make sure you get some back protection too.

 

[LightningRods]

"Pirate Cycles" was making a double flanged hub that looked promising, but they're out of business now. Oset also makes hubs like this but they're oddball widths to fit their own bikes (and nothing else apparently). Oset sold one to me and said they couldn't supply them in numbers for resale.

I'm getting close on the hub production. I've fallen down the rabbit hole of axle diameters and thread pitches and the available inside and outside axle nuts. I've settled on a 10mm x 1.0mm solid track axle. I'm going to use sealed bearings instead of the usual bicycle cone bearing arrangement.

My first hub is going to be for the Qulbix swingarm-mounted Big Block I'm working on. It's single run #219 straight from the motor to the rear sprocket. This hub will have two mounting flanges on the left and a 1.375" freewheel thread on the right for a single speed through three speed freewheel cog. Future versions of this hub will have an inside thread for a ratchet ring for people who want a free hub and cassette.

Go slow with that 120A controller. The Big Block is an 11 lb motor, not a 25 lb copper boat anchor.

 

[ElectricGod]

"Pirate Cycles" was making a double flanged hub that looked promising, but they're out of business now. Oset also makes hubs like this but they're oddball widths to fit their own bikes (and nothing else apparently). Oset sold one to me and said they couldn't supply them in numbers for resale.

I'm getting close on the hub production. I've fallen down the rabbit hole of axle diameters and thread pitches and the available inside and outside axle nuts. I've settled on a 10mm x 1.0mm solid track axle. I'm going to use sealed bearings instead of the usual bicycle cone bearing arrangement.

My first hub is going to be for the Qulbix swingarm-mounted Big Block I'm working on. It's single run #219 straight from the motor to the rear sprocket. This hub will have two mounting flanges on the left and a 1.375" freewheel thread on the right for a single speed through three speed freewheel cog. Future versions of this hub will have an inside thread for a ratchet ring for people who want a free hub and cassette.

Go slow with that 120A controller. The Big Block is an 11 lb motor, not a 25 lb copper boat anchor.

what LR said, but it can take 3500 watts no problem too and more.

 

[LightningRods]

70 amps is comfy. I'm hoping for 100 amp bursts of maybe 30 seconds or so. The half size small block will handle 50 amps for a while before getting warm so this isn't unreasonable.

 

[izeman]

i made two pictures of my shifting/throttle setup (some more can be found in my build thread).
i bought a second sram x9 gripshift OUTER PART (so basically only the rubber with some plastic inside), cut out the plastic, and fitted the rubber to a half twist throttle on the right hand side. the right hand shifter was turned 180° and installed on the left side. yes, shifting up/down now is reversed, but no issue to handle at all after you get used to it (max 5min).

View attachment 1

 

[John Bozi]

Very happy with the sound improvement
(and slightly how the torque engages ( sorry to mention that word, because God might hear me) )
of upgrading both my motor sprocket and small jackshaft to 18t.

Thank you to those who shared these ideas, just love this community of people who try to help each other better our bike without the BS.

I will never run a smaller shaft sprocket now.

This was limited to 3kw

219 sprockets 18t, jackshaft 64t and 18t, bottom bracket 65t and bicycle 40t to rear 38t. 3kw somewhere around 85v 40a in the video.
[youtube]RrwwYIb0vus[/youtube]
New channel because too many kids on bikes yelling out my name.....

 

[Föppel]

Nice man, Nice!

 

[Samer]

hey boys, here some test and upgrades that im doing on the bike

first i try to put the battery on the frame , i end up damage my spine disc s5l1 big crash on speed flying, the pain is horrible , cant carry heavy weight on my backpacker any more very sad but recovering, did stemcell terapy to see is my disc can grow back
the battery on top is no good , affect alot of the balance of the bike



decided to try battery under the frame , it is much better balance look nice too, the only problem if i turn the front wheel all the way to left or right the suspencion touch the battey , gonna have to re-spot welder it



up the mount close to home



i add shimmano sprocket on the back 11-42 it is insane it can climb a tree, super torque doesn't head up the motor wen you go uphill
top speed on small sprocket is 60km
front sprocket using 44 tooth, i tried 32 tooth but it is no good , too much tork


[youtube]7Yk9IbU12ZE[/youtube]

 

[LightningRods]

front sprocket using 44 tooth, i tried 32 tooth but it is no good , too much tork

Sorry to hear about your back injury Samer. Nothing hurts like nerve pain from your spine. I've been there.

To use the 32 tooth chainwheel you'd need to have less motor reduction. If you're not tearing things up you're probably fine where you are. One of the benefits of using #219 chain is that there are lots of different tooth counts available.

That's quite a mountain goat you have!

 

[eMTBHunter]

Swapped out a few drivetrain components. New sun race 11-42 10spd cassette, shimano xt m786 shadow+ clutched derailleur, shimano Saint m820 shifter and KMC x10e ebike chain. And I swapped in the wolftooth narrow-wide 30t chain ring a couple weeks ago. Some photos at the bottom.

With 30t chainring and 42t rear, it's unstoppable up a steep grade even with a loaded trailer.

At one point I was climbing, and I heard rubbing, looked behind me and realized the trailer had flipped and I'd been dragging it up the hill on it's side with my treestand plowing through the dirt.

Mike, I sent you a couple emails about wanting to upgrade to the 15mm jackshaft and swap out some other parts as well. After seeing John Bozi's post, I'm thinking I'd like to have the option for a chain drive primary as well just as parts on hand. We can correspond via email when you get a chance.

Also got my headlights hooked up. Brighter than most folks ATVs.

 

[steveo]

hey everyone,

i recently aquired a 1500w kit and am wondering what is the correct size/dimentions of chain ring bolts to use?
what material is strongest? steel or titanium?

ive been having some issues with the bicycle chain poping under load.. however i realized today that the crank arm was not fully seated on the bottom bracket..

so far im snapped a chain.. getting very fustrated with keeping the chain ring bolt tight.. and i dont want to lock tight them as it makes it really difficult to remove em :/

ive also messed up the front bicycle chain ring just because of the chain popping.. falling off.. gahh..

i have yet to get full use out of all the rear gear.. ive used only 3rd to 5th gear as any other gears have been popping like crazy under load..

also i notce the motor mount twisting a bit under load..

im running 15s lipo... 62 or 64 chain ring to the motor.. and a slighly bigger bicycle chain ring to the rear gears..

ive really reduced the power of the 12 fet down till i can get everything funtioning properly..

so i need
chain ring bolts...
front chain ring replaced..
strong ass chain that wont snap..

a bit of luck .. and hope it will work

-steveo

 

[LightningRods]

These are the chainring bolts I use on the kits. They're an unusual length, made for poly bash rings. They have locktite on them so they won't come loose. They are a bitch to get back off. It's hard to have it both ways.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...jfiVU1L1Mg_h_BDw6aw3UaAtpF8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

For the chainring you need one with a 104mm bolt circle. Single run chainrings are not made to shift with a front derailleur and so have longer teeth and grip the chain better.

If you want a great chain you can't beat the Wippermann. You may have to sell a kidney to pay for it, but it's a great chain.

 

[John Bozi]

If you can find something that will clear other bits that might hit the bolt and nuts, just measure the holes and stick in some steel bolts and nuts till you can afford titanium.... top of my head its m10. heavy as hell in a solid high tensile.

they will be way stronger than aluminium or whatever the very hollow race face ones are, which will deform under load especially if it nicks anything even slightly.

I went through a couple of sets of race face and another brand till I gave up with the bicycle four hole system in favour of direct to the freewheel with sbp sprockets.. but thats single speed land.... so are the bmx track chains..... I think Cheeky is running regular bolts and nuts through his 4 holes though....
The raceface as I learnt, don't attempt to undo them until you have heated up the loctite and then they come off easily saving the heads. If they nick anything they will be cactus for removal, but a dremel to create new lines helps.

the wipperman I bought under Mike's advice was rare but an excellent chain, well the 7e8 was, but dam hard to find again.

I believe many will chime in here with regular chain advice and I believe them, that they are sufficient, its just making sure everything else is running spot on, otherwise pop!

good luck

 

[Alex07]

Has anyone overheated the hall sensors on the LR Small block/GNG motor ? My motor started stuttering and showing hall sensor error. But all 3 phases seem to still change, but maybe the timeing is not right ?

I think mine has, Can the Hall sensor board be replaced ? Any videos online or anyone done this?

and what temperature on the motor would you not want to go over to not overheat the hall sensors ?

 

[LightningRods]

I don't claim to be an expert on hall sensors. I have had several hundred of these motors apart and I've torn the entire hall assembly out of a dead motor just to see how it works. I don't think that the hall board is an issue. It would be easy to swap out. It's held on with two small zip ties. The hall sensors themselves are buried in the stator near the edge of the rotor. They appear to have been potted in place with hard plastic. They came out in bits and not completely out. Compared to the hall board I replaced on my clothes dryer these don't appear to be meant to be serviced/replaced.

I'm sure that one of the electronics wizards on E-S would be able to recommend a replacement hall sensor. I think that the old ones would have to be drilled out and then the new sensors potted or glued in place.

Wiring can also degrade from heat. From the reading I've done about motor overheating the wiring insulation gets damaged before the magnets start to lose their magnetism. You may just have some toasty wires. How much heat the insulation can take depends on the class of insulation. I doubt that the hall wires on these motors are any kind of fancy high temp wire.