LiPo battery care and basic information

[deVries]

Sorry to break into this post with yet another question but I've read till my eyes are blurred the last couple of days. Is there a good configuration that will match the voltage of my 48v Ping pack(53 volts actually)? 14s is what I understand :? . Odd number? I would like to start by paralleling 10 Ah of Lipo to raise the C rating of the 15 Ah Ping battery. I have an X5 (40 amps) that is very hungry

Since you're going to do long rides cross-country, I'd go with 15ah of LiPo as the main battery and just switch the Ping in as a spare or have it wired in with an isolator switch to cut-off the LiPo and another separate one to turn on the Ping. You should never parallel mixed chemistry -Ping w/LiPo for example.

Maybe the Ping could somehow charge/feed the LiPo once the voltage would drop in the main LiPo pack... but this would definitely require diodes to protect the Ping and a high charge C rating on the Lipo AND you would have to make sure the Ping would not over-charge the LiPo total pack voltage -Ping needs to be lower volts than top-off charge of LiPo.

I have not done any of the above, but I've read enough to know this should be possible. The Ping battery could then be placed perhaps in a better location with it feeding your LiPo.

Another method might be to use contactor-switches (sp?) to switch between each battery and use each battery separately. Search on DrBass' posts and contactor. Doctorbass: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=445

Search on booster packs and diodes too.

 

[vanilla ice]

You should never parallel mixed chemistry -Ping w/LiPo for example.

I don't see why mixing chemistry wouldn't work as long as the voltages are the same. You could run the ping on a bms or something to prevent it from being stressed, but the stiff lipo shouldn't let that happen anyway. Even at max output from the ping, you wouldn't exceed max charge rate on high end lipo.

13 Series'd 4.08v lipo cells should match well with a 53v ping pack. Didn't Justin use mixed paralleled packs?

 

[deVries]

Even at max output from the ping, you wouldn't exceed max charge rate on high end lipo.

13 Series'd 4.08v lipo cells should match well with a 53v ping pack. Didn't Justin use mixed paralleled packs?

As long as you have an easy way to disconnect/reconnect the different chemistries for charging differences or go with the lowest charge amp rate and voltage of the two different chemistries, then probably this lowest common denominator technique would work using diodes where necessary during charge or discharge. Not sure how easy it is to do any of this with the Ping already wired-in with its own BMS and charger set-up?

Booster pack technique would work w/diode protection.

 

[deVries]

Unless someone can persuade me otherwise, I want to comment about using Anderson type connectors with a CAUTIONARY NOTE: I've seen SEVERAL confessions of ANDERSON connector failure BY SEVERAL OF THE BEST EXPERTS, i.e. BEST EXPERIENCED battery builders and test experts on ES, wherein the SPRING LOAD inside the connector failed to push itself into proper contact with the male/female other side of the connection...

THEN, the pack that had this fault either got the battery damaged/destroyed or readings were never received or THE CHARGE didn't go into that sub-pack!

There are other more reliable ways to make battery related connections w/o having *any* concerns with this type of fault condition. Mistakenly not connecting LiPo for charging, riding, or taking readings is giving an excellent incentive for a lipo-volcano to erupt in a meltdown fusing stuff with amp-burns or shorts, or heat damage and puffing, or worse, and/or cost mucho $$$ to replace the damaged goods...

 

[Crash Machine]

Unless someone can persuade me otherwise, I want to comment about using Anderson type connectors with a CAUTIONARY NOTE: I've seen SEVERAL confessions of ANDERSON connector failure BY SEVERAL OF THE BEST EXPERTS, i.e. BEST EXPERIENCED battery builders and test experts on ES, wherein the SPRING LOAD inside the connector failed to push itself into proper contact with the male/female other side of the connection...

THEN, the pack that had this fault either got the battery damaged/destroyed or readings were never received or THE CHARGE didn't go into that sub-pack!

There are other more reliable ways to make battery related connections w/o having *any* concerns with this type of fault condition. Mistakenly not connecting LiPo for charging, riding, or taking readings is giving an excellent incentive for a lipo-volcano to erupt in a meltdown fusing stuff with amp-burns or shorts, or heat damage and puffing, or worse, and/or cost mucho $$$ to replace the damaged goods...

Thanks for the answers guys I may try some Lipo with the Ping battery and post my results. As for Anderson connectors, I rode a long cross country run this summer, lots of jarring,connecting and disconnecting and I had problems in the middle of nowhere. It burned the connector from the arcing. I probably replaced 5 or more Andersons for different reasons...

 

[Ypedal]

Yet, i love my Andersons !! 8)

Used 100's of them over the past 5 years.... have only melted one pair of PP45's ( pulling 100 amps thru them for extended preiods of time ) because of a bad crimp on 10 gauge wire with really fat jacket preventing proper snap into the housings... other than that they have never been a problem for me when crimped correctly..

JST connectors.. however...

 

[bandaro]

yeah, ive had a few jst pull out on me, but not enough to be worried about.

on the andersons issue though, has anyone tried replacing them with the dean ultra plugs? they are a T style, slim plug, and supposedly have a 0.05v drop over the connection, otherwise the same as 10 gauge wire current flows. whats you guy's take on these? ive used them extensively in rc cars without any problems, but that is a much smaller drain.

 

[boostjuice]

I recently discovered 8.0mm bullet connectors and I like them

Cheapest Aus source i could find >>> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/RC-Gold-Bull...Radio_Controlled_Vehicles&hash=item5ada5c434c

Or cheaper here if you can afford the wait >>http://cgi.ebay.com.au/20-X-8-0mm-g...sGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3a5bdeda19

I got sick and tired of Anderson PP75's. The stupidly large size for their current rating together with the large amount of force required to pull them apart does not favour them for regular connects/disconnects (PP45's are easy in this regard, but I don't trust them and their current rating is inadequate for my purposes). 8.0 mm bullets are rated for 200A continuous and are tiny in comparison. Being of radial contact design, they have a far greater surface area between mated pairs compared with single plane flat wiper type connectors like Andersons and Deans. I don't care that they are not modular like Andersons. Using different coloured heatshrink makes polarity obvious. However with a little customisation you can actually group them in rows.

Spacer made from this which i had lying around

 

[deVries]

Subject: LiPo battery care and basic information

Link http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170&start=195#p284110 from here, to this previous post...

Can I charge 5 LiPo packs at the same time using ONE DC power supply to power all 5 chargers? I assume the 5 LiPo chargers isolates itself with each LiPo pack while all 5 chargers can share the main/source 12-14v DC Power Supply without any problems??? Correct or No?

Not correct. These chargers do not have isolated outputs. The negative output is common with the negative 12-14V input. If you have the packs separate, and not connected in series, then yes, you can do use multiple units driven from a common 12V input source, to charge the packs at the same time.
-- Gary

Is it possible to use three 12-14v cheap car battery chargers (with enough output amps to support each 4s LiPo charger) AND then the negative outputs would not share any of the negative commons from the three separate car charger inputs... Therefore, the 3 in series 4s3p packs to make a 12s3p battery can be left connected in series AND be charged simultaneously by the three 4s LiPo chargers each having its own 12-14v car charger making three inputs, one each from one of the three auto chargers. This effectively isolates each 4s3p pack from each other to charge in series as a 12s3p battery?

Will this work to charge three 4s3p packs connected in series simultaneously & safely?

Thanks!

I did some more reading and learned as long as one has a separate input charger connected to each RC output charger separately, then, yes, the 12s3p battery can remain in series too while charging. No disconnecting!

Now, I still have a remaining question about the Mean Well type of chargers that have 3 DC outputs on the rear of a single charger. Supposively, many of these chargers have isolated outputs, so I'm wondering if it's possible to still input DC voltage into 3 RC chargers using only one of these Mean Well type of chargers with the 3 isolated DC outputs? (There is both a neg/pos output on the 3 "isolated" connections.)

Will this work without frying anything?

TIA.

 

[deVries]

I did a VERY DETAILED and separate post titled... New Break-in & Conditioning Rules for Ur New LiPo Packs

If you are getting into LiPo or want to know "how to start out on the right foot", then this might give you some of the best ideas I could find. Click on the link just below...

New Break-in & Conditioning Rules for Ur New LiPo Packs

 

[auraslip]

How do ya'll feel about using voltage programmable "smart" BMS for lipo packs?

You can set the LVC and HVC to whatever you want.

 

[Arlo1]

How do ya'll feel about using voltage programmable "smart" BMS for lipo packs?

You can set the LVC and HVC to whatever you want.

Not very much info there.....?
a $39 bms and a $200 usb cable to program the bms??? WTF?

 

[Kingfish]

Disposal/Recycling
I recently did an assay on my copious supply and discovered five little lipo bricks that are on the edge of viability & puffed out; actually three are below the LVC, and the other two are very close - although are in balance.

Question: What is the proper way to dispose of or recycle these guys?

Thanks very kindly, KF

 

[amberwolf]

In Phoenix, there are city collection days for hazwaste and batteries and the like. Some recycling depots will take them. Many places that sell batteries and/or powertools, including Batteries Plus, have bins for them.

 

[Kingfish]

Found this site: call2recycle.org
Turns out there are a plethora of participating local merchants able to take rechargable batteries up to 2 lbs for free.

Nice to know that, KF 8)

 

[neptronix]

Unless someone can persuade me otherwise, I want to comment about using Anderson type connectors with a CAUTIONARY NOTE: I've seen SEVERAL confessions of ANDERSON connector failure BY SEVERAL OF THE BEST EXPERTS, i.e. BEST EXPERIENCED battery builders and test experts on ES, wherein the SPRING LOAD inside the connector failed to push itself into proper contact with the male/female other side of the connection...

THEN, the pack that had this fault either got the battery damaged/destroyed or readings were never received or THE CHARGE didn't go into that sub-pack!

Yeah no kidding. I use hobbyking 4mm bullet connectors. They cost something like 50 cents a pair and are will handle around 50-75 amps. They are easy to solder to and so far mine don't see much in the way of wear.

I wonder why people on this forum are so stuck on the idea of using Anderson connectors. They seem to be both simultaneously expensive and finnicky.

 

[auraslip]

Yeah no kidding. I use hobbyking 4mm bullet connectors. They cost something like 50 cents a pair and are will handle around 50-75 amps. They are easy to solder to and so far mine don't see much in the way of wear.

I wonder why people on this forum are so stuck on the idea of using Anderson connectors. They seem to be both simultaneously expensive and finnicky.

Pssssh 50 cents a pair? I got 50 of em for $10 http://cgi.ebay.com/50X-4-0mm-4mm-Heavy-Duty-Gold-Bullet-Connector-Plug-/180636356968?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0ec41168

I think the popularity of Andersons is based on their fool proof nature. Which means less returns for retailers, and less likely hood of KFF for people with lots of battery packs they like to switch around. If you're deep into the hobby, $40 for the crimper and 50 cents per pair of Andersons isn't that bad..... OTOH, if you're like most and only have to plug in the charger, then I think deans or the xt60s are much better.

 

[cachexian]

Hi Auraslip, Neptronix,

Can you please give me a quick run down of how you solder the pack wires to the bullet connectors that you recommend. I'd just got my head around how to do andersons and was about to order some but now it seems that these gold connectors are better.

Thanks,
Cachexian.

 

[Henry111]

Hi Auraslip, Neptronix,

Can you please give me a quick run down of how you solder the pack wires to the bullet connectors that you recommend. I'd just got my head around how to do andersons and was about to order some but now it seems that these gold connectors are better.

Thanks,
Cachexian.

I have a device (very popular in the R/C field) that has holes in for this. But here is another way. Take a pair of plyers. Flat sided plyers are best. Put a rubber band around the handle so that the lips are held closed. Squeeze them open and place the plug so that the pliers hold it veritcally--hollow side up. Tin the wire. Place the soldering iron against the plug. As it heats run soler into the hollow. Keep the iron against the plug so the solder stays melted. Then insert the wire into it the plug. Wait a second. Your're done, except for the shrink wrap, of course.
You can solder Deans the same way.
Rearding Andersons. I have many years in the R/C hobby, and almost nobody in R/C uses Andersons anymore. Years ago, yes. Currently, the most popular are Deans. However, guys running high voltage are often using bullet connectors. As for crimping connectors. No R/C hobbiest who knows anything would crimp connectors. The best way, of coures, and if possible, is to hard wire--no plug at all to fail.
As long as I'm hear: Re Lithium Polymers: In the R/C hobby you would have to visit a lot of flying fields to see an electric model airplane with something in it other than LiPos. So what's all this fear of LiPos among E-bikers? It aint rocket science. Just use a good cell balancing charger intended specifically for LiPos, and some kind of LVC. In R/C, all of our ESCs have LVC. And by the way: LiPos do not explode. They may burn, but they do not explode.

 

[Henry111]

In my above post I forgot to mention:
Look at the bullet plug. See that little hole in the side? Place the tip of your soldering iron against that hole. Helps transfer heat the interior. That's it purpose.

 

[Henry111]

Decide now what kind of plugs you are going to use and stick with them. Standarize on just one kind. Otherwise headaches follow.

 

[neptronix]

Hi Auraslip, Neptronix,

Can you please give me a quick run down of how you solder the pack wires to the bullet connectors that you recommend. I'd just got my head around how to do andersons and was about to order some but now it seems that these gold connectors are better.

Thanks,
Cachexian.

Sorry i didn't see your post earlier.

I made a how to here:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=28694

 

[neptronix]

Pssssh 50 cents a pair? I got 50 of em for $10 http://cgi.ebay.com/50X-4-0mm-4mm-Heavy-Duty-Gold-Bullet-Connector-Plug-/180636356968?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a0ec41168

I think the popularity of Andersons is based on their fool proof nature. Which means less returns for retailers, and less likely hood of KFF for people with lots of battery packs they like to switch around. If you're deep into the hobby, $40 for the crimper and 50 cents per pair of Andersons isn't that bad..... OTOH, if you're like most and only have to plug in the charger, then I think deans or the xt60s are much better.

That would be a great deal if it included the housings.

I think the HK bullets do everything the andersons do really.. they are polarized, and have housings that do a pretty damn good job of preventing you from shorting them out.
The only thing i don't like about them is that they don't have a type that can bolt on to a box like the andersons do.

Where do you get andersons for 50 cents a pair anyway?

 

[Henry111]

Nice job neptronix!

 

[cachexian]

Thanks very much Neptronix. That's really helpful and informative!

Another HK order for me!