Look for assistance on my WindOne E2

[SPG_Chaos]

Hey all! First time e-bike owner and first post here, so forgive me if I'm a little uninformed. I'm loving the bike so far. But I am curious about getting into the settings to change things like max speed on each gear for the throttle (first gear on throttle shoots to 12~ mph like an on off switch) and possibly removing the throttle speed limiter for use on private land/trails. (It goes to 19mph, PAS goes up to 28mph). 1313 gets me into the basic settings on the display, but there seems to be no way past that known. So I did purchase a USB to UART cable as well, but seem to have run into a wall when finding working software. I haven't gone as far as plugging it into the bike yet, but before I do I wanted to educate myself as much as I could, starting with if it's even still doable.

Thanks in advance for any info!

Edit: It's a YLO80C-C display. I haven't removed the seat to look directly at the controller yet, but I can.

 

[neptronix]

It's extremely unlikely that you are going to find this software for what sounds like an uncommon bike.
You'll find programming software for tons of DIY stuff, but not for prebuilts. The manufacturer of a prebuilt always wants to lock you out.

There are so many proprietary systems in these ebikes that only the most common ones get liberated.
Guys with the skills to hack these things are usually too busy building DIY vehicles instead of messing with these.

Consider swapping the controller and all electronics so that you can have control of how the vehicle works. basically, convert it to DIY electronics that use common standards. As a bonus, you'll be able to dial up the amps.

 

[ZeroEm]

Here is the link to his bike Windone - Best Electric Bike, Windone Ebikes for Sale
It's 750w bike setup to be a class 3. Have not studied in a while. Class three can use a throttle up to 20mph and pas up the the legal speed of 28mph.

 

[ZeroEm]

I sorta set my trike up like a class 3 but have it limited using switches and software so I can change it with the push of a button.
I was confused about your comment using first gear. Looks like your bike has a rear hub correct.

 

[amberwolf]

Most likley it's factory locked down, and only the factory can change the settings (or they can't be changed at all). They have no reason to provide a way to make a bike "better" than they sell it as, and if htey sell multiple models they have good reason not to allow user changing of things, because then you won't have a reason to buy the more expensive models . There may also be legal reasons for them to not allow changing things, depending on where they sell their stuff it may be required of them.

Most likely you'll have to change the controlelr and display (and possibly any of the user controls, thortttle, pas, etc) and possibly the battery (and it's charger) if it's locked to your contorller as some OEM systems do.

I'd recommend sitting down to figure out exactly what you want the bike to do for you, under all your riding conditions, then look for a system (or parts to make one) that will do all of those things the way you want, and are adjustable in the ways you want.


One way that will probably work without changing any of your existing parts, assuming you can ride by just using the throtlte without pedalling, is to use the cycle analyst v3 from ebikes.ca to intercept your pas sensor and throttle, and have it convert that to a single throttle that then goes to your contorller, so you have actaul cadence control over the system, and dont' even need assist levels. But you'll still ahve them if you want them...normally you just set the sytem to the highest level and then control it with the pedals normally.

I use this method to control my heavy heavy-cargo trike SB Cruiser.


Otherwise, unless you buy a controlelr like lishui, kt, etc that have opensource firmware available for them, for them that lets you truly variably control the bike wiht pas either cadence or torque, pretty much none of the assist-level systems out htere will give you real pedal control of it, just on/off of hte full amount of that assist level (speed, power, or some other combination).

 

[SPG_Chaos]

I appreciate the super fast and thorough responses. Wasn't expecting to come back from a ride to so many replies. Ya I wondered about it being not very common as I couldn't find a ton of info on it aside from the great reviews it's had. And one mystery dude on tiktok who mysteriously got it to hit 28mph on the throttle with the stock YLO80C-C display. (It was an older model of my bike by like two years though, which probably explains it.

I sorta set my trike up like a class 3 but have it limited using switches and software so I can change it with the push of a button.
I was confused about your comment using first gear. Looks like your bike has a rear hub correct.

Yup it's a rear hub. 750w brushless hub motor. And it does work on throttle with PAS. A combination of research as a noob and ChatGPT's help led me to think I could plug a UART to USB cable into the display, but what you guys are saying makes sense. Especially since it's a more recent model. They probably locked all the settings down.

So it sounds like my best (and probably only) option is to look into buying a new controller, ($80 or so USD?) and more than likely a new battery if it's locked to the original display/controller setup. Should the motor be okay in theory?

I'm not necessarily looking for a huge upgrade, just some fine-tuning and--of course--increasing the max speed on throttle to closer to 30. (Just to reiterate, not for use on public roads, but on a private stretch of land with good trails and level straight-aways.

(edit: I'm not very knowledgable in the mechanical/electrical side of this kinda stuff, in general, but I learn quickly. More of a computer guy, lol.)

 

[amberwolf]

So it sounds like my best (and probably only) option is to look into buying a new controller, ($80 or so USD?) and more than likely a new battery if it's locked to the original display/controller setup. Should the motor be okay in theory?

If hte motor already does what you want, then yes. If all you're after is finer control over the system, the cycle analyst is probably the "simplest" way to get that, with the bonus of it actually being continuously variable not just on/off of whatever assist level is chosen, and the ability to monitor power usage, capacity usage (and so available remaining range, once you get used to the displayed info).

You won't get any faster speed out of the system by using the CA; that's up to your ocntroller, battery voltage, and motor speed under the load you have.

If you choose instead to replace the controller / display so you can get past it's limitations, It's a fair bet the battery is not locked to the system, but there are systems that do this, some of which are easy to hack and some of which are not.

I'm not necessarily looking for a huge upgrade, just some fine-tuning and--of course--increasing the max speed on throttle to closer to 30.

The faster you go, the more power is required, and above around 25mph it goes up faster and faster. Its' likely that your motor and battery can handle that, but if the battery is like many and just barely able to handle what it was sold as, as it ages it may not be able to do it anymore (voltage sag under load increases, dropping top speed and tending to cut out as it gets closer to empty during a ride).

 

[neptronix]

Computer guys learn this stuff quick. You already have a head start on a strong logic skill.
You will probably need to learn how to solder. Getting into it is cheap and easy.

Your bike looks kinda like a DIY solution made at a factory. That's good.
How many pins/wires does your battery use to talk to the controller. if it's 2, and the power switch is on your battery, you're in luck. No Jailbreaking required.
otherwise you can replace the BMS and rewire the battery, but it is kind of a pain in the ass to do.

As for controller, i like ebikes.ca's controllers and VESCs ( open source, better for very high power ).
Some people like kunteng ( KT ) controllers for their cheapness.

Both VESC and ebikes.ca phaserunner/baserunner have a feature called phase weakening that can increase the speed on your bike with a given battery. Look for that feature on your next controller.
That's how you'd get that 30mph ( or more ).. and because these controllers are programmable, probably boost the torque while you're at it .

 

[SPG_Chaos]

Thank you Amber and Nep! Very informative and a bit of a confidence booster, lol. To help, I'm basically looking for:

-Removal (or increase) of the throttle-only speed limiter to preferably 28-30. If it's possible/viable without a big investment. (up to $200 is doable if it has other benefits.)

-Better control of the throttle so it ramps more instead of feeling like on ON/OFF switch. (if possible)

-I would like a LITTLE more torque, but I'm sure that would more than likely require a motor upgrade (currently 750w brushless hub motor)

Also worth noting, the bike is 92lbs and I weigh about 160-170. And I don't really use the pedal assist unless I need the extra kick. It's a bit awkward to pedal and with only five gears I have to pedal quite fast over 20mph.

If hte motor already does what you want, then yes. If all you're after is finer control over the system, the cycle analyst is probably the "simplest" way to get that, with the bonus of it actually being continuously variable not just on/off of whatever assist level is chosen, and the ability to monitor power usage, capacity usage (and so available remaining range, once you get used to the displayed info).

Okay gotcha, I need to do a little more research into this Cycle Analyst. It seems like it would resolve at least one or two of my issues.

You will probably need to learn how to solder. Getting into it is cheap and easy.

Your bike looks kinda like a DIY solution made at a factory. That's good.
How many pins/wires does your battery use to talk to the controller. if it's 2, and the power switch is on your battery, you're in luck. No Jailbreaking required.
otherwise you can replace the BMS and rewire the battery, but it is kind of a pain in the ass to do.

As for controller, i like ebikes.ca's controllers and VESCs ( open source, better for very high power ).
Some people like kunteng ( KT ) controllers for their cheapness.

Both VESC and ebikes.ca phaserunner/baserunner have a feature called phase weakening that can increase the speed on your bike with a given battery. Look for that feature on your next controller.
That's how you'd get that 30mph ( or more ).. and because these controllers are programmable, probably boost the torque while you're at it .

Luckily a member of the household is pretty good at this (soldering) and has all the accessories for it, so I can learn first hand. And other forums I've seen have had great success modding it. If you youtube the Windone E2 the first video is a guy who modded it to go over 70mph. (That's insane, he's insane, and I salute him.) I am NOT trying to go that crazy, lol. But the bike is definitely very moddable, at least. The battery has an on/off switch but that definitely looks like more than 2 pins if I understood correctly. The other picture is the UART connection that leads to the controller from the display, if that helps.


The possibility of a new battery/controller getting me more torque and full control of the settings is very enticing, though. What would an investment like that run me? And while I'm sure it'll void the warranty, I'm pretty sure BikeInsure would cover the mods. I would kinda hate to rip the bike apart right after getting it, but if it really is just a pure improvement it's hard to resist.

 

[amberwolf]

-Removal (or increase) of the throttle-only speed limiter to preferably 28-30. If it's possible/viable without a big investment. (up to $200 is doable if it has other benefits.)

The ca can't do that for you; that requires changing the controller (and probably display, as a sset to be sure they work together). (assuming your controller settingsd can't be changed)

If you're limited by the power and voltage the battery produces, you'll have to change that too.

-Better control of the throttle so it ramps more instead of feeling like on ON/OFF switch. (if possible)

That could be just how your controller works, in which case teh CA won't change anything becuase it uses the same throttle input to tell the controller what to do, so however the controlelr responds is how it responds.

it oculd be the throttle itself, having a very small rotation range for the whiole variation of output voltage of the throttle. that can be fixed with a better th rottle, or using hte ca, or both.

-I would like a LITTLE more torque, but I'm sure that would more than likely require a motor upgrade (currently 750w brushless hub motor)

Higher current controller will provide more torque...but that will have to come from the battery, which is probably only designed to handle the original current. So it may either shut off all battery power when more is demanded, or it may stress or damage the bms or cells, or blow a fuse if ti has one.

you'd have to see what hte battery is rated for, and try to only get a contyroller that has a limit below that or can be programmed to stay below that.


increasing speed generally means higher voltage, increasing torque means higher current, assuming no motor change.

changing the motor to do it means investigating what yours actually is / is capable of, and then finding a different motor that has the characteristics (kV / kT) that let it do the job without changing the other parts...but usually having a motor that makes more torque means one that spins slower, and vice-versa, assuming you stick with the same type of motor, so you may ahve to change other parts anyway.

And I don't really use the pedal assist unless I need the extra kick. It's a bit awkward to pedal and with only five gears I have to pedal quite fast over 20mph.

Do you mean that you aren't pedaling, just using the throttle?

If you are pedalling, even if you aren't able to put pressure on the pedals to provide human power, you're still triggerng th controller to run the motor, just as an on/off thing at full power of your assist level. That might be why the throttle feels like on/off.

The battery has an on/off switch but that definitely looks like more than 2 pins if I understood correctly.

How many wires from the cradle to the controller? Or if the contyroller is inside the cradle, now many wirse from the battery pins to it?

 

[ZeroEm]

For now I would enjoy your ride and figure out what you really want. A lot of people come on here wanting to remove the speed limiter and think that they will get a lot more speed out of it. Most bikes are doing close to what they can do. so the limiter is not much more that a few mph. You bikes power is in the battery not the motor. The controller controls that power. only time you need to worry about the motor if it's getting hot then you need a bigger motor. Best to figure out how fast is fast enough use a simulator then see if you want to spend that much money.

 

[neptronix]

Yeah it sounds like you want a FOC controller like i mentioned instead of a cheap one.
That will give you the throttle based torque control you're looking for.

Personally i don't like cycle analysts. They are a controller on top of a controller, and the two heads don't always talk to each other. I use a cycle analyst standalone and just put my preferred program into the controller and stick with it, rather than adjust it on the road. My CA is only for monitoring.

You would probably like a baserunner controller because it's easy to program. The VESC is more like a science experiment and will let you control EVERYTHING and isn't simplified, so not the best choice for a newbie. Grin can also sell you matching accessories with their controllers.

Grin's controllers are more expensive than Chinese ones, but they are well made and very well documented - this matters.

OK your battery has 4 pins, probably 2 of which are used. It looks like a DIY compatible battery. If this only has two wires coming out, there's a >95% chance you got a DIY compatible battery.

Motor wiring? you've got a 3 phase brushless motor? then it's just a matter of matching up the wire colors and letting the autotune on the controller sort it out from there.

 

[amberwolf]

The possibility of a new battery/controller getting me more torque and full control of the settings is very enticing, though. What would an investment like that run me?

Battery, that depends on what you need it to supply, current wise, and votlage, and the quality level you're after. lots of cheap batteries are badly built of crappy parts and don't do what they say they will and can be fire hazards to boot. so...the battery, if you have to change it, could cost a few hundred dollars.


controller, depends on what you want. the phaserunner or baserunner can independently do some of what hte CA would do for you (afaicr the newer versions can even handle the pas sensor if you want), so saves you the cost and work of getting and setting up the ca. they're not cheap, but reliable and relatively easy to setup, with all the advantages of foc.

When you get tired of this bike entirely or hte frame or other mechanical bits fall apart, y ou can move the controller over to the new bike you build; it supports much higher voltage and power than your present bike, if you need that in the future.

i'd bet that you have the standard higo/julet 9pin motor connector, so you can get the pr with the adapter for that at ebikes.ca, and probably the rest of your system has higo/julet connectgors that you can also get adpaters for at ebikes.ca to wire the pr up to them.

grin also has something called the smartcable (sp?) that will also let you use certain displays on it, i doubt yours is compatible but you can check their list on the website.

 

[SPG_Chaos]

Okay, got it. A lot to take in but it seems the jist of it is I should just enjoy the bike as is for a while. I'll probably cruise around these forums in the meantime and try to educate myself more. If I understand correctly, when I'm ready to upgrade the bike I'll for sure be looking at a new controller/display combo, and I'd likely need a bigger battery to accommodate. I will say the throttle itself seems to have no trouble hitting 20, it just cuts off flat when it gets close. And when I initiate the PAS after 20, it barely takes any effort from me. It almost just seems like the pedals are just telling the motor to kick in. So to me, it does seem like there is some headroom for it to stretch it legs a bit more. (But I really have no idea lol)

 

[neptronix]

Yeah i would replace all the electronics, and make sure you get some kind of screen that indicates current volts/amps/watts, that screen will tell you how far you can push your existing battery.

More amps = more voltage sag = more heat. But if you are at peak power and you only see a few volts dropping, it's quite possible you could up the torque by programming higher amps.

You probably ended up with some goofy recent California-legal bike without knowing it. The lawmen are very anti-throttle out there.

 

[amberwolf]

I will say the throttle itself seems to have no trouble hitting 20, it just cuts off flat when it gets close.

That's because there are different classes of bikes, three common ones in the USA by legal definitions (you can check your locality for what yours are, and you can look up the common legal definitions of them to compare, such as California's). To legally sell their stuff in the most number of places, ebike makers end up have to make sure they comply with whatever the laws are in those places.

So as I think someone already posted, yours probably cuts off throttle at the legal limit for that, and PAS at the legal limit for that, for the class of bike it was sold as.

And when I initiate the PAS after 20, it barely takes any effort from me. It almost just seems like the pedals are just telling the motor to kick in.

That is what I stated previously; see the quotes below for those parts if they're helpful. PAS on virtually all systems that don't have a torque sensor just use the PAS sensor to detect whether you are pedalling, at all, and if you are, it turns on the system at the full amount of whatever that assist level is. There is no modulation of assist except via the throttle, if they have one.

pretty much none of the assist-level systems out htere will give you real pedal control of it, just on/off of hte full amount of that assist level (speed, power, or some other combination).

If you are pedalling, even if you aren't able to put pressure on the pedals to provide human power, you're still triggerng th controller to run the motor, just as an on/off thing at full power of your assist level.

If you want modulation from the PAS, without changing to a torque sensor, the previously listed alternatives are available; there may be others out there that I haven't seen.

So to me, it does seem like there is some headroom for it to stretch it legs a bit more. (But I really have no idea lol)

If your controller had settings you could access to change them, then at minimum you would be able to throttle up to the same speed you can reach via PAS.

How much more beyond that depends on the motor's winding (kV), battery voltage, battery current delivery capability, controller current delivery capabiltiy, and your specific riding conditions (how much power they take to overcome, to go the speed you want to go). The trip or motor simulator at ebikes.ca or other calculators out there can be used with your specific riding conditions to guesstimate the power required to do what you want; it doesn't really matter what assist system is used in the simulators/etc to do it, just that it is able to provide at least as much power as your conditions require. .