Maytag's GT gets a BMC

Hi Knoxster,

Yah I was thinking opening it up to see if just a simple replacement of the FETs would be the cure but saw that the Pwr ON/OFF and Forward/Reverse sticker labels are arranged so that they would need to be cut in order to open the housing (good way to check for tampering). Hopefully these guys at the poweridestore gets back to me soon, I was hoping to just get a quick replacement and if I get another lemon I would opt for the 4110 FETs mod.
 
Great news, Earl at PoweRidestore.com just got back to me and said just send in the controller and he'll send out a replacement. He also said me replacing the hall sensors connector wont be a problem. Kudos to Earl. Hopefully I have better luck with the replacement, if not I'll just do the FETs mod and not bother Earl anymore.
 
There's a few tests you can do without opening the case.
Measure resistance from each phase wire to the power leads (6 combinations). This will tell you if a FET shorted and on which phase.

Knoxie's idea about the insulators is interesting. The stock ones are crap and I replaced those on both of my upgraded units.

To test the insulators, measure from both power leads to the case and from each of the phase wires to the case. There should be no connection.

If a single insulator fails, nothing bad happens. If two or more fail, you get a short, smoke, etc.
 
Hi

Yes I have seen them do this on the controllers as well, its up to you of course, the 4110 mod should be ok along with the to220 washer fix, I worried and went for the higher voltage fets at the expense of a little on resistance, I would rather it be more reliable possibly, it still worries me that 72V on 100V fets in these controllers may have problems.

Power ride store were wary of selling me a controller when I contacted them as I told them it was for a modified Kol motor? I think they will get a lot of returns when more people try 72V, some of these controllers just arent up to it as std.

Cheers

Knoxie
 
maytag said:
Great news, Earl at PoweRidestore.com just got back to me and said just send in the controller and he'll send out a replacement. He also said me replacing the hall sensors connector wont be a problem. Kudos to Earl. Hopefully I have better luck with the replacement, if not I'll just do the FETs mod and not bother Earl anymore.
Click to expand...

Yes thats great service indeed and yes you can then upgrade if it blows, I hope it doesnt of course and yes as Richard says the stock washer and rubber tube fet fix is a big problem, it may be that you could stick with the stock fets and just fit the washers and heat tabs? I would be tempted to try this first as it would only take an hour to do, nice and easy and may be all that is needed?

If thats the case then it may be that I now do have a controller that is capable of running 100V reliably :) that will be great and I may have to try it!! ha ha walking before or I run here!!

If anyone else is reading the thread and is curious or wants to run higher voltages Id seriously suggest making at least the washer mod before you try, the fets may still of course fail but at least you can feel better that you tried! ha ha

All the best

Knoxie
 
Weowww! Just catching up with the thread--had not looked since the batteries were barred together.

Am highly impressed too. The bike looks great, runs great, and controller issues are just that--the motor's sound and that's the big point.

What a great job. A first. Kudos!
 
Just wanted to chime in on my bros new setup. I really like the weight of the setup and it's in the same power range as the Phoenix. Well we are talking 52v compared to 48v. I ran Jondohs 52v Emolis in my Phoenix before and almost hit the 40mph club. This I would say would be comparing two totally different beasts again like with the Cyclone. An American Muscle car compared to this time a Subaru WRX STi instead of Jons pocket rocket. Straight up Grunt vs Fast and Nimble. Here's a quick little Vid of me lifting Dave's bike up to show how light it is. If you notice in the vid it is totally centered when I lift it up with one hand. I'd break my arm if I tried this test with my Phoenix and Nimh pack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERBFvzvuuI
 
joystix2 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERBFvzvuuI
Click to expand...

FAR out that bike is light! VERY nice work

joystix2 said:
JAn American Muscle car compared to this time a Subaru WRX STi instead of Jons pocket rocket. Straight up Grunt vs Fast and Nimble.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lERBFvzvuuI
Click to expand...
Hmm that is fantastic. Its essentially exactly as I want my bike to do. A BIG thankyou to you - for paving the way :)

I love ur analogy. As a Supra owner I can understand the difference hehe. Light and nimble is a much better way to be imho.
 
What's interesting is the STi is no lightweight.
http://autos.yahoo.com/subaru_impreza_wrx_sti-specs/?p=ext

3351lb curb weight, compared to a MKIV Supra around 3450-3500.

"Despite a 3450 lb curb weight, in 1994 the MKIV managed a remarkable skidpad rating of 0.98 lateral g's "
"The Supra Turbo recorded a 70-0 braking distance of 149 feet, the best braking performance of any production car tested that year by Car and Driver magazine. Since that time only the Porsche Carrera GT has managed to best that 70-0 braking performance."

As I recall, the Supra kicked ass on the 2800lb RX7 in that test, even around the race track. 13 years later, I still see MKIV Supras with original motors, rear ends, axles, transmissions. The RX7 twin turbo on the other hand breaks parts just by looking at them. Even the early model wheels tended to crack, and shows how obsession with light weight is not always a good thing if you want durability. Lithium batteries however are a win-win situation :D
 
True, Friend of mine drives an Rx7 - his car is always off the road. I run the supra Non turbo - so its not as fast. But they do last VERY well. Best lasting import Jap Import i know of.

all of these are light cars in comparison to some of the land boats we have down here :s 1600+kg.

ultra lightweight i'd say lotus elise. (or the tesla)

Still end up riding more than driving tho;) soon to be ebiking.
 
-UPDATE-
Well I just sent the Crystalyte controller back for warranty exchange, looks like 5 business days for ground from CA to GA so I'm looking at probably 2wks before the GT is back on its feet. I plan on hooking up the replacement only for a lite functionality test then I'll crack open the case to check the mounting h/w on the FETs per Knoxie's suggestions and replace it all if need be.

I've been looking into what options I have for fabricating the battery side covers. I really like how custom car stereo installers are making fiberglass sub enclosures and kickpanels, some have very nice glossy paint jobs. I dont know if fabricating fiberglass covers for the GT is over my head but heck I never built a custom battery pack until this project came along. Today I might pass by TAP plastics just to brainstorm for ideas.

Sorry guys, it might be a while before I post anything worthwhile.
 
Crudiness of this motor is aparent.
After seeing my TF motor /made IN USA/ with cover off I really must appreciate US -made. How can you even have any parts rusted inside and so crude looking insolation on crucial wires. I bet they are not even CSA or UL approved.
It remains me of time when I worked on Chinese-made paper gilotines/cutters, just 4 years ago when we have to replace all wires going to motor and other power wires, they were so badly made.
MC
 
This was a bad batch, they arent all like that look out the picture of the inside of the BMX wheel that was perfect inside clean as a whistle and nice and shiny, the new BMC motors mark is getting ( the new Puma ) is sparkling inside.

They do work ok though, you have to check them as Mark does before he sells them as with all Chinese stuff quality control can be an issue.

Knoxie
 
The TF motors are beautiful I bet because they were all like, what? CNC machined and done in such small quantity (200 bikes sold, is all?) that the cost was not a factor. And it was quality.

The Chinese dash the stuff together. They must work under such cost constraints---that they neglect to even zinc plate the rustable parts.

Rust Reformer or Extend should be considered for application by brush to such parts of the motor internals that can be coated. It's better than paint.
 
miro13car said:
Crudiness of this motor is aparent.
After seeing my TF motor /made IN USA/ with cover off I really must appreciate US -made. How can you even have any parts rusted inside and so crude looking insolation on crucial wires. I bet they are not even CSA or UL approved.
It remains me of time when I worked on Chinese-made paper gilotines/cutters, just 4 years ago when we have to replace all wires going to motor and other power wires, they were so badly made.
MC
Click to expand...

Yes it was a bit misleading for BMC to suddenly switch manufacturing vendors shortly after the front BMC video was posted. If you havent seen the video of the front BMC geared hub motor with the covers off you can find it on youtube "80v hub motor". From what I'm gathering, BMC has been given the heads-up of the displeasing changes and the next Rev of the rear motor will be of same quality as the original front hub version. I'm a tinkerer so the version I have is not much of a problem to me, $hit I've modded cheap chinese made crap to kick a$$ before and this is turning out pretty damn good. Let's just say that I'm liking this motor so much that when BMC gets it all figured out I'll have to consider picking up a few to build a couple of limited production ebikes (similar to my GT setup). Hell if an Optibike can go for $7k, there's gotta be room in the performance ebike market for something half the $$$.
 
If you already sent the controller back, I guess it's too late to try measuring for continuity between the case and the power leads (check for insulator failure).

I hate working with fiberglass. Stuff makes you itchy.

I've make parts from thin polycarbonate by cold bending. If you have (make) something like a sheetmetal bending brake, you can bend polycarbonate cold without cracking. Once bent, you can spray paint it.
 
Yo

This wasnt Doug or Marks fault, their suppliers promised one motor and delivered quite another, although I think your motor from the outside is better than the BMX motor which is nice on the inside.

You can treat any sensitive parts with anti corrosion spray like ACF50 that stuff is amazing!

I will strip down my motors and give them a taste of that stuff, although I doubt I will ride the Hub motor bike in the wet weather much.

Shame you have to wait for the new controller, well in 2 weeks I should be able to see if my 72V mod has worked ok as I will try and commute on it at 72V daily, if it does that ok then I think we will be good to go, as before it pretty much blew only after a few miles when I wasnt even going that fast at all.

I think the BMC makes a great platform for a powerful e-bike, use it along with a properly tricked xlyte controller on a nice bike with some discreetly mounted Lipos and you have one hell of a nice bike, they really do kick out some good torque and high speed, with no gear changing or messing about with chains, nice and simple and powerful and light.

I think the Ideal power for these motors is about 25A at 72V, that's a perfect balance of power, I'm talking the max here of course, I run it at a max of about 1.3KW at the moment and I am happy with that, the gearing on the Rayleigh tops out at 21 mph and it does 24mph at 37V, you should see over 30mph with 53V with the high torque band coming in later between 15 and 20mph.

On the BMX at 37V at about 5mph rolling, it throws your head back if you blip the throttle! quite a laugh doing that!! infact I think Ill take a run to the recycling centre on it right now!! ha ha I drink so much wine the bottles pile up or else!!

Good luck with the motor and controller, I think in the long run you are going to be happy with it, I really like riding the Puma and the BMX.

Cheers

Knoxie
 
Knox, See my comments:

knoxie said:
Yo

This wasnt Doug or Marks fault, their suppliers promised one motor and delivered quite another, although I think your motor from the outside is better than the BMX motor which is nice on the inside. Sorry I should have made it clear that Doug or Mark arent to be blamed, a couple of great guys in my book.

Shame you have to wait for the new controller, well in 2 weeks I should be able to see if my 72V mod has worked ok as I will try and commute on it at 72V daily, if it does that ok then I think we will be good to go, as before it pretty much blew only after a few miles when I wasnt even going that fast at all. More Kudos to Earl at PoweRidestore, I just sent him an email saying I sent back the controller and provided the UPS tracking number. Shortly I received an email confirmation that Earl sent out a package addressed to me. So it looks like Earl isnt even going to bother waiting for my bad controller to arrive and sent out the replacement already meaning less down time. SWEET

I think the BMC makes a great platform for a powerful e-bike, use it along with a properly tricked xlyte controller on a nice bike with some discreetly mounted Lipos and you have one hell of a nice bike, they really do kick out some good torque and high speed, with no gear changing or messing about with chains, nice and simple and powerful and light.

I think the Ideal power for these motors is about 25A at 72V, that's a perfect balance of power, I'm talking the max here of course, I run it at a max of about 1.3KW at the moment and I am happy with that, the gearing on the Rayleigh tops out at 21 mph and it does 24mph at 37V, you should see over 30mph with 53V with the high torque band coming in later between 15 and 20mph. Yes, 30mph has already been done with the emoli pack. Actually 31.5mph GPS confirmed on a chilly night.

Knoxie
Click to expand...
 
Thanks to all those who posted me props, glad you guys are enjoying the build. Well I just received the replacement controller and this one luckily has the "Foward / Reverse" label stuck only to the case so I was able to unscrew one of the endplates to take a quick look at the FETs. Looks like even the replacement controller did not come with the better mounting h/w for the FETs. I guess I'll do a very lite functionality test run then head out to Fry's Electronics to see if they have the h/w that the Knoxster is talking about on hand. More posts to follow of course.

Knoxie, is this what you were talking about regarding the cheapie FETs mounting h/w?
 

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fechter said:
You need to remove one of the screws to see for sure. It looks like the standard crap.
Click to expand...

Hey Fechter,
So are the FET cases suppose to be insulated from the heatsink? Just from what I can see I dont see anything between the FETs and the heatsink other than the heatsink compound. Normally it would be easy to spot mica insulator pads underneath each FET. Well the lite functionality test worked out fine this afternoon so the GT is back on its feet but I'm afraid to do anymore riding until I upgrade the h/w on the FETs. No luck finding the h/w at Frys, tomorrow I'll try an electronics surplus store that might carry what I need but if not I may have to go the online route.

Knoxie, where did you get the mounting h/w for your FETs?
 
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