MXUS 3000 Hub Motor - V1 V2 V3

[Samd]

My weight can go up or down a kilo in a week. My battery choice can go up or down a kilo depending on the build.
For me it's about:
1) the profile radius from the side view
2) the price point for moderate heat capability.

I use my bafang BPMs offroad because they are 4kg. These are for Cruiser motors IMHO.

Hopefully my hub is coming back via mail today Willow. Yours only shows two tracking events since leaving here - hope you receive it soon.
Time to lace one up!

 

[Willow]

My weight can go up or down a kilo in a week. My battery choice can go up or down a kilo depending on the build.
For me it's about:
1) the profile radius from the side view
2) the price point for moderate heat capability.

I use my bafang BPMs offroad because they are 4kg. These are for Cruiser motors IMHO.

Hopefully my hub is coming back via mail today Willow. Yours only shows two tracking events since leaving here - hope you receive it soon.
Time to lace one up!

...Today should be the day - I have not got mine yet either. Snowing here - hopefully the mail gets through.

EDIT : just checked the mail box - a few bills but motor not here yet.

 

[Ebikebert]

More worms, okay, you got it!

" This thing absolutely kills my crystalyte hs3540. Still need to do more testing to get concrete data but I would have for sure burned out my old motor. This thing ran max acceleration and 50+mph for 20 minutes while barely getting warm. The cro is still a better motor but for nearly half the price this is a killer deal"!

This was from endless-sphere facebook. I am quoting a member from Wisconsin who purchased and ran the steel stator version of this motor @ 10KW! He will run it tomorrow at 14KW @ 32s (134.4v) and see how it holds up. It looks like no matter what we are going to get a hell of a motor for the money.

 

[John in CR]

Unless you're making very short runs of just a few km riding hard, stamped steel vs aluminum spoked stator will make very little difference, and it will make no difference at all for continuous operation. It's different covers you guys should be asking for, something with much more surface area inside and out. That's what will make a marked difference in motor cooling, not shuffling heat around inside the motor a bit faster. Motor heat is transferred to the environment from the surface of the outside shell, and if you don't increase that surface area, increase it's temperature, or increase the turbulent flow over it, then you can't remove more heat unless you use some other means to carry the heat out of the motor.

 

[John in CR]

Apples and oranges my friend. Yes aluminum has slightly more than double the heat capacity of steel and 4-5X the heat conductivity, but that's largely irrelevant. First, the heat has to travel from the copper through the stator steel to get to the aluminum or steel support, and moving through the stator steel is relatively slow. So what if once it gets to the AL support it spreads through the aluminum more quickly and the aluminum can hold more heat? The goal is to get the heat to the surface of the shell, not hide it in aluminum at a lower temperature until it builds up enough to get to the same temperature to transfer it to the air inside the motor, then to the inside surface of the shell, and quickly through the shell to the outside surface and to the outside world. In that respect, the aluminum center support will actually slow heat transfer to the outside world, because it temporarily suppresses the interior metal temps, so the air inside the motor can't heat up as quickly. That's not even considering there's less surface area of that AL support compared to stamped steel, so even at the same temp, the steel transfers heat to the air more quickly.

Myths are rampant wrt hubmotors and heat transfer, but I'm not going to get dragged into it here, but I will say that burned up motors have 2 primary causes:
1. Improper tuning of the controller to match the motor and load that is mostly caused by an all too common high phase/battery current limit ratio.
2. Operator error by whoever has their hand on the throttle.
I could take any rig that doesn't have an auto shut down feature and heat it to failure quite quickly, but I can also make the same system operate virtually indefinitely. If you're heating the copper to 140°C in any conditions then you're begging for problems. I'm amazed at how people will throw money or do motor mods toward things that have marginal benefits, yet completely ignore what really works. Of course, I can't understand how anyone tolerate the inconvenience of taking their battery off the bike and disassembling it for charging after every use, so what do I know?

John

 

[Samd]

John, I am sure we get it. You might even find a few qualified engineers here. :wink:

There's radiant heat shedding, then there is the ability to take it up in an aluminium core and shed it later because air is a shit receiver of heat. A nice buffer for sudden random bursts well above the average.
Any more on the topic might be best moved to another thread rather than a Mxus specific one.

 

[madin88]

is it true V2 has 4x16turns so 6,6% more copper compared to V1 with 4x15 turns?
That also would mean a cooler motor at same amps..

 

[e4bike.ru]

It is true. 4x16.

 

[999zip999]

JohnCr you have a good point and is on topic for both motors as heat related. So keep on as it is about the muxus 3000. They just don't want to hear it.

 

[madin88]

That's not even considering there's less surface area of that AL support compared to stamped steel, so even at the same temp, the steel transfers heat to the air more quickly.

IMO AL transfers heat to the air more quickly than painted steel and the surface area of the AL support is similar + it transfers heat better to the axle.
AL support is the better choice no matter which way you look at it. Thats for sure!
With your other words you have very right. Hands up for cooling fins on inside and outside of the sidecovers, hmmm or a second outlet on the axle for water tubes

 

[douglashart]

ive recently purchased the mxus 3000 from aliexpress. I was just days late for the group buy, darn it. I now realize that mine will have no hall or temp sensors. Can anyone help? is it doable to install these? if so , any guidance would be much appreciated.

 

[teslanv]

ive recently purchased the mxus 3000 from aliexpress. I was just days late for the group buy, darn it. I now realize that mine will have no hall or temp sensors. Can anyone help? is it doable to install these? if so , any guidance would be much appreciated.

Just get a sensorless controller. Installing a temp sensor isn't a huge deal either, if you really need it. You can just use a 10K Thermistor and thin gauge wire.

 

[teklektik]

The bottom line is that I think for the prices both options are a good value. I do not regret going with the V1 motor, since we were able to do so in a timely manner, and at a very good price point, when compared to other similarly sized motors.

+1
Absolutely.

 

[douglashart]

teslan, I was hoping to use the adoptto setup . do you happen to know if that can be run sensorless?

 

[e4bike.ru]

Adaptto controller supports sensorless mode but it is like emergency mode to get back slowly in case of halls failure. It is not intended for regular use.

By the way, why do you think you are getting a motor with no halls?

 

[John in CR]

What's the price difference of the V2 stator, and is the AL center a requirement to get the better stator lams and larger slots? If it's required, then it's a moot point regardless of how much I disagree with the statements about it cooling better other than to smooth out short-term spikes in temp. I'm all for making less heat though, and thinner lams with larger slots to fit more copper definitely means less heat, which is the best solution for a cooler motor. If the price is right FOB China, I might be interested in helping you guys meet the demand MXUS will want to see. I have some crates shipping out of Shanghai fairly soon.

 

[douglashart]

e4 bike, I saw that the sensors were an option ,and just assumed that since I didn't think of it that I wouldn't get them.

 

[Samd]

JohnCr you have a good point and is on topic for both motors as heat related. So keep on as it is about the muxus 3000. They just don't want to hear it.

No i was happy to hear it once. Same logic as back in uni.
Three times is tedious. Sorry but no conspiracy for you.

But a proper discussion of thermodynamics includes a useful lag in conduction to radiation as well as radiant properties.

 

[Ebikebert]

What do thinner or thicker laminations do to the motor? Does a thicker lamination make it harder for eddy currents to become a problem?

 

[Samd]

Opposite. Thinner lams trap the eddy currents and bump up the efficiency a few percent.

Which isn't much normally, a few extra percent of lipo is sometimes cheap.
But if you are banging 10kW bursts into the stator then the extra few hundred watts of heat that results is the difference between a thigh warmer and an electric kettle down between your ankles.

 

[Ebikebert]

So there is no advantage at all to having thicker laminations? I figured there would have to be at least one good reason mxus initially chose the thicker laminations as opposed to the thinner ones.

 

[teslanv]

So there is no advantage at all to having thicker laminations? I figured there would have to be at least one good reason mxus initially chose the thicker laminations as opposed to the thinner ones.

Thicker laminations = less layers and cheaper to produce.

 

[Samd]

Thicker laminations = less layers and cheaper to produce.

 

[flathill]

thinner lams also mean less steel and more insulation for a given thickness

"iron fill factor"

thinner is not always better overall in every motor depending on rpm
and other factors

for these motors Im sure the thinner lams are an overall improvemt though

 

[madin88]

i know of a custom RC motor with 0,1mm lams and it was a bit more efficienct than the same motor with 0,2mm lams. if i remember right this motor was used in a pylon plane for speed / lap records.

Sure this leads to less iron because there is an "air gap" between every lam, but if it even was better for above purpose, going here from 0,5mm to 0,3mm will not have any disadvantages.