New Bosch hub motor

[Batteryrepair]

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/hub-line#c538624

It looks like it's a geared rear wheel derailleur system. Thru Axle.
From the pictures and videos it seems like the controller is integrated into the motor, possibly torque sensing via the casette mounting point, as the specs list gear shift sensing only possible with derailleur system, not with hub gear system (meaning pinion etc?)
In some videos a tachometer disk (see screenshot) is visible at the bottom bracket, so maybe there is a PAS/Torque sensing combo/separate versions?
2.3kg, way lighter than their mid drives, but only 45Nm.
The connector coming from the motor does seem ta have 3 thick pins + some signal pins (see screenshot), so there is a chance this is finally a stand alone motor that could be driven with other controllers, but that'd not be the usual way Bosch handles things.
Anyone notice any other interesting things?

 

[stancecoke]

As usual, everything will be proprietary, so nothing for the DIY community. But I guess it will help to get rid of the cheap China scrap image of hubmotors, at least in Germany.

 

[neptronix]

Read the site.
Man that is a lot of text that says almost nothing.

Okay so 250w rated, 400w max, speed limited to 25 km/h ( 15mph ) and 2.3kg or ~5lbs.
No mention of efficiency. Imagine that it's half decent at least.

If for some reason i had this motor in my hands, i'd immediately chuck the controller and run out 3 phase wires to a VESC. No way do i want to tangle with Bosch lockdown.
I don't see much exceptional qualities compared to Chinese motors which would justify such effort though.

Would be nice if i'm wrong for having an immediate dim view of it.

 

[stancecoke]

Okay so 250w rated, 400w max, speed limited to 25 km/h ( 15mph ) and 2.3kg or ~5lbs.

250W rated and 25 KPH max, that's the EU legislation.
Of course, Bosch won't reinvent the wheel. They just see, that lightweight stealth commuter bikes are very popular at the moment and they want to get a piece of this pie, too!

 

[neptronix]

Do we not get bent over on the electro-mechanical aspect at least with these Bosch motors?
Ie they are built well and conservatively tuned.. therefore some potential to unlock power exists..

 

[Batteryrepair]

Do we not get bent over on the electro-mechanical aspect at least with these Bosch motors?
Ie they are built well and conservatively tuned.. therefore some potential to unlock power exists..

I do wonder if they'll supply gears. With their mid drives they only did for gen2, for 3,4 and 5 there's not a single replacement part like bearings, one way clutch or gears. I don't see any space for controller on the bike example on their site, so possibly integrated controller. But the motor connector shows 3 thick pins, so that'd imply just a simple motor like any other geared hub. At least,.if that's the case, if there's a bankrupt manufacturer, we can reuse the motors or convert the bikes to another drive system for less than the cost of a powertube battery. Sadly the smart Bosch batteries are impossible to open except for the powertube, but that one is a pain in the ass to supply with a universal BMS.

Edit: as of today, no more gen2 gear/freewheel assembly will be available. At least that's the news from magura bike parts. Bosch now has officially become unrepairable for all their models. Idiots.

 

[stancecoke]

I wonder, why the German Pedelecforum community thinks, the Bosch system has simple PAS assistance with no torquesensor.

Bosch is introducing a 2.3-kg geared hub motor with what appears to be a very simple control system. This is the kind of cheap Chinese technology from 20 years ago.

source

I thought, the Bosch hubmotor system will have the same combination of torque and gyro sensors as their middrives. But there are no reliable reports about that details yet.
Some assume, it is a cadence sensor in combination with a gyro sensor...

 

[Batteryrepair]

Nothing different than bafang did 15y ago. Well the pas is not with magnets but with tach. Good news is it seems we can swap another motor in there, or run the Bosch motor with other controllers.

 

[Zambam]

I thought, the Bosch hubmotor system will have the same combination of torque and gyro sensors as their middrives.

How is the gyro sensor used in Bosch mid drives? Do other mid drive manufacturers also use gyro sensors?

 

[Batteryrepair]

How is the gyro sensor used in Bosch mid drives? Do other mid drive manufacturers also use gyro sensors?

Bosch uses a magnetostrictive torque sensor

 

[stancecoke]

Bosch claims to use 3 sensors on its middrives.
- torque
- cadence
- acceleration/tilt (="gyro")

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/products/performance-line-cx

 

[lnanek]

Tilt can be used to give a boost when going up hill. Sometimes also the opposite to prevent burning out the motor. Old Bionx bikes had a "mountain mode" for that.