New build. Full carbon 29er weight weenie Super Commuter.

[full-throttle]

Met up with Kepler tonight and had a quick test ride on his new bike.

It's super light and encourages to pedal, in a good way
The brakes are powerful and have great feel and modulation.
Carbon frame feels stiff and responsive.
The bike looks stunning.

There is definitely a growling noise coming out of the rear while accelerating. No noise at speed or without load.
28mm tyres are not too bad, but given the choice I'd go for something a bit wider. Funny enough my very first build was somewhat similar

Overall I'm very impressed.

 

[veloman]

3 years ago I was on here speaking about how ebikes need not be heavy monstors requiring tons of power. If you started from the road biker perspective, then worked the power in very discriminatingly, you would find that a small battery and low power can actually make a nice ebike that handles amazing (since it weighs not much more than a normal bike).

And here you are Kepler, doing such a fine example of this. This is the stealthiest ebike I've ever seen. Yes, that front disc rotor is overkill . you really can get away fine with good dual pivot brakes on a lightweight bike.

I got a tiny tonxgin hub off ebay for real cheap. Will be lacing it up into a road wheel and doing a simular build to this. I have a ridiculously tiny 36v brushless controller that is about the size of a turnigy watt meter. And some lipos stuffed in a seat bag. If it weren't for the harsh ride, I'd ride such a setup more often I'm sure. Maybe if I lived in the suburbs on nice roads. Not here in the central city area though.

I would suggest not using a CF frame though. Aluminum is barely any heavier and you can add torque arms easier. Drop bars will get you more aero.

It looks great though. Love the controls and functionality you added.

6.6wh/km - THIS is what affordable, sustainable transportation is. A consumer ready 48v 5ah pack is a lot cheaper than a 10ah one, and the weight/size matters to.

I would agree with Chalo on getting 35c tires though. Because ultimately what will keep you off this bike is the poor ride quality, am I right? A good 35c tire is probably 10watts (or 0) slower than a 25c tire on real world surfaces.

 

[Kepler]

Met up with Kepler tonight and had a quick test ride on his new bike.

It's super light and encourages to pedal, in a good way
The brakes are powerful and have great feel and modulation.
Carbon frame feels stiff and responsive.
The bike looks stunning.

There is definitely a growling noise coming out of the rear while accelerating. No noise at speed or without load.
28mm tyres are not too bad, but given the choice I'd go for something a bit wider. Funny enough my very first build was somewhat similar

Overall I'm very impressed.

Good to catch up tonight and glad you liked the bike. Also good to get a second opinion on the motor noise even though we didn't come up with any answers. at this stage I think I will leave the motor in a try a few dampening techniques.

Very similar to your first build BTW. 8)

 

[Kepler]

3 years ago I was on here speaking about how ebikes need not be heavy monstors requiring tons of power. If you started from the road biker perspective, then worked the power in very discriminatingly, you would find that a small battery and low power can actually make a nice ebike that handles amazing (since it weighs not much more than a normal bike).

And here you are Kepler, doing such a fine example of this. This is the stealthiest ebike I've ever seen. Yes, that front disc rotor is overkill . you really can get away fine with good dual pivot brakes on a lightweight bike.

I got a tiny tonxgin hub off ebay for real cheap. Will be lacing it up into a road wheel and doing a simular build to this. I have a ridiculously tiny 36v brushless controller that is about the size of a turnigy watt meter. And some lipos stuffed in a seat bag. If it weren't for the harsh ride, I'd ride such a setup more often I'm sure. Maybe if I lived in the suburbs on nice roads. Not here in the central city area though.

I would suggest not using a CF frame though. Aluminum is barely any heavier and you can add torque arms easier. Drop bars will get you more aero.

It looks great though. Love the controls and functionality you added.

6.6wh/km - THIS is what affordable, sustainable transportation is. A consumer ready 48v 5ah pack is a lot cheaper than a 10ah one, and the weight/size matters to.

I would agree with Chalo on getting 35c tires though. Because ultimately what will keep you off this bike is the poor ride quality, am I right? A good 35c tire is probably 10watts (or 0) slower than a 25c tire on real world surfaces.

Thanks veloman. Funny I have gone from a 12 kW monster to the polar opposite.

I was running a bit late tonight and pushed really hard on the way home. Feel relieved I got home with all my fillings intact :lol: . I certainly see some softer riding tires in my future that's for sure.

To be honest all the carbon and massive brakes are more about form then function. Nothing like a bit of Ebike bling

 

[Hyena]

You really need to try pedalling Hyena. 8)

I tried it once, my heart and lungs didn't like it
Nah my best economy is around 12 wh/km but that's at higher speed often doing 40-45 and that's with 26" vaguely knobby tyres running lowish PSI so it's far from ideal. I'm sure I could get down to ~10 with the crazy bobs back on and pumped up hard. But I usually run them at the low end for comfort. My spine takes much longer to recharge than the battery does!

 

[Kepler]

Time for another quick update.

Tried a few things to dampen down the noise and resonance coming from the motor and going through the frame. Nothing helped. So I bit the bullet and got another motor off my suppler and spent the best part of a day unlacing my motor, lacing in the new motor to the rim and re wiring.

What a difference!! Motor hardly makes a noise regardless of rpm or power (750W) max.

Also changed out the tires for so 700 x 38C Hybrid tires.

Bike feels transformed. With the lack of motor noise and much more compliant ride, this is the result I was looking for.

 

[full-throttle]

got another motor off my suppler and spent the best part of a day unlacing my motor, lacing in the new motor to the rim and re wiring

You couldn't simply just swap the internals, or the new motor is different?

How the new tyres feel?

 

[Hyena]

Yeah I was going to say the same, switch the gear/clutch assembly first, then swap the whole innards if that doesn't work. I hate relacing so that's always my last resort. That said good to hear you got it all sorted and it's now riding nice.

 

[Kepler]

You couldn't simply just swap the internals, or the new motor is different?

Those motors need a special tool to open them up and it would have taken me half a day to make the tool. Also I wanted to make a complete change just in case it had something to do with the motor casing and ring gear.


Tires feel really nice. Much smoother with all the harsh jitter gone. They still seem to roll well too.

Working in the city again tomorrow. Maybe catch up again for a follow up test ride.

 

[t3sla]

excellent news, I've noticed some BF motors make obscure noises for no particular reason.
might just come down to milling tolerances or winding obscurity, either way QC issue.



Took me a while to figure it out, but that is the end of 8FUN in white letters on your hub (you can only really see the 'NU')

My mind went to NUVINCI, which gave me the idea what you should paint the hub black and label it with NUVINCI sticker logo

Hide the CA and get a FOC controller and you won't be able to tell it's electric :lol:

 

[Kepler]

I like the info on the CA too much to hide it.

What is a FOC controller?

 

[t3sla]

I like the info on the CA too much to hide it.

What is a FOC controller?

Field orientated controller, the SINE wave ones.
Essentially silent, I had more noise from my tire on one bike whilst testing.

Lot of the European bikes have them, you know how picky that euro crowed is they can'y grasp 'she'll be right'

 

[full-throttle]

What is a FOC controller?

And more importantly where to get one.

 

[briangv99]

What is a FOC controller?

And more importantly where to get one.

Maybe these are available now FT, only 250w rated but great for Kepler's fine machine

http://www.lsdzs.com/e/ProView.asp?ProId=342

 

[Kepler]

Unfortunately only 36v though. Too slow for this notor.

 

[full-throttle]

Maybe these are available now FT, only 250w rated but great for Kepler's fine machine

Thanks for that. They are available, one of the guys here got one. Unfortunately they are only available direct from the mfg. Would've been nice to have a local distributor.

Met up with Kepler this morning:

The bike has improved - no more noise coming from the back and the bigger tyres are more comfortable. I really like the adjustable power limit.
The 72deg head angle feels steep mainly because the 3 bikes that I've been riding lately have 64, 66 and 68deg. Most people will not even notice that.
The bike weights around 14kg which is about the same as my all-mountain bike The only noticeable difference is the rear-heavy weight distribution when picking it up. Apart from that it looks just like a normal bike.

So well done Kepler!

 

[Samd]

Seriously nice. You should be proud.

 

[pendragon8000]

Kepler, just listening to this podcast now, prety cool to hear you talk about your friction drive.
http://troyrank.com/2013/02/11/ebike-nerd-podcast-episode-31/
couple Q's:
-can you give a ball park price for a "Kepler kit"? my mate wants to do an ebike one day and loves what you did with this build, he used to be a courer and likes to ride light, he wants that slight assist and super stealth.

-how much info would you be willing to give away with your over centre lever action, and adding abrasive grip to the out runner rotor, if i DIY?
cheers
edit:
just saw this..
http://www.eboo.st/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=2&zenid=8u7smkrjgbobhttc35flc01ss0
I hope you find the time to make it all happen. I found making home brew temperature controllers and selling online sold ALLOT quicker than expected, by showing quality of manufacture in photos ppl love it. i can imagine tweaking the swing arm length etc would be tricky.. anyway I'd love to see this bottom bracket product eventuate.

 

[richmpdx]

Posting to add my compliments to the many other positive comments about this great build. Remarkably clean, efficient and functional.

I have a question about the details of the button throttle. Is it simply a momentary contact on/off switch and control of the throttle ramp is handled by the CAv3? Or is it electrically/electronically more complex? It appears that the switch itself may be sealed to protect it from water. Is it a commercially available switch?

Rich

 

[Kepler]

Kepler, just listening to this podcast now, prety cool to hear you talk about your friction drive.
http://troyrank.com/2013/02/11/ebike-nerd-podcast-episode-31/
couple Q's:
-can you give a ball park price for a "Kepler kit"? my mate wants to do an ebike one day and loves what you did with this build, he used to be a courer and likes to ride light, he wants that slight assist and super stealth.

-how much info would you be willing to give away with your over centre lever action, and adding abrasive grip to the out runner rotor, if i DIY?
cheers
edit:
just saw this..
http://www.eboo.st/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9&products_id=2&zenid=8u7smkrjgbobhttc35flc01ss0
I hope you find the time to make it all happen. I found making home brew temperature controllers and selling online sold ALLOT quicker than expected, by showing quality of manufacture in photos ppl love it. i can imagine tweaking the swing arm length etc would be tricky.. anyway I'd love to see this bottom bracket product eventuate.

I have been selling the kits for around $300. Unfortunately I dont have any in stock at the moment. Have made some major design changes and will get a new run organized soon.

In regards to the lever action and grip tape, nothing to hide. What do you want to know?

 

[Kepler]

Posting to add my compliments to the many other positive comments about this great build. Remarkably clean, efficient and functional.

I have a question about the details of the button throttle. Is it simply a momentary contact on/off switch and control of the throttle ramp is handled by the CAv3? Or is it electrically/electronically more complex? It appears that the switch itself may be sealed to protect it from water. Is it a commercially available switch?

Rich

Thanks Rich.

Yes, its just a simple spring loaded push button. It just emulates a full throttle condition by taking the the normal 5V throttle feed, adding a 14K resistor to drop it down to around 4V, and connecting the 4V to throttle signal output. The CA3 does all the ramping. It has 2 ramping modes.

UpRamp: sets the throttle ramp up rate in sec/V. This slows power application giving smoother getaways without harsh acceleration.

FastRamp: is used when current is less than 2A and allows the motor to quickly come to speed if the vehicle is already underway. When the CA detects a current of 2A or greater it switches to the UpRamp value, providing a slower ramping effect.

The pushbutton switch it reasonably water proof and available from Jaycar.

 

[Kepler]

Made a minor change the power control setup by adding an adjustable 3 way switch with a voltage divider using 20 turn trim pots to set the power to exactly what you want. Built this as per the circuit provided in the CA3 user guide but added my own twist.

Rather then just having low medium and high, I have kept the original adjustable pot and set it up so that it only adjusts the high switch setting. So now I have low at 250W, medium at 450W, and high adjustable from zero to 750W on the fly. I wanted to have a 3 way switch but didn't want to loose the fully adjustable functionality that I had before. This setup gives me the best of both worlds.







View attachment 2



Also changed out the 203mm front disc for a 180mm disc. Doesn't feel like the bike is going to throw me over the handle bars every time I touch the front brakes now

 

[Kepler]

Had a mini group ride today with a few mates. 3 BPM's, 1 GNG setup, and my bike with the Fun8.

We did a 40km run at a leisurely pace typical of a group ride on some local bike tracks in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. When riding alone I tend to push quite hard so It was interesting to ride with a group of ebikes at their pace for a change. My economy ended up being crazy good at around 2 wh/km. Of course I did plenty of pedaling but at the pace we were going, the bike was so easy to pedal, it simply wasn't a chore at all. I am really enjoying this bike.

 

[pendragon8000]

2wh/km is ridiculous!
I was wondering how you glue the grip to the motor shell? Also is a coarse and thick sand paper best?
If it was me I'd get one of the HV $80 esc from hk, but I noticed there are some <$40 that can run 6s lipo, do you have any experience with the cheeper ones? I'm looking at doing a budget build for my mate.
Thanks for your help
Sorry if a little of topic.

 

[Kepler]

Had a great ride into work this morning. Really starting to push this bike now and managed to do the 28km ride in just over 50 minutes which was the same as I was doing on my Fighter. Difference is that the Fighter (with geared hub motor) used 15 Whrs/km with the Super Commuter only using 6.9 Whrs/km.





Funny story,

I latched on a nice quick Lycra this morning. He was sitting on 35 to 40kph most of the way on bike paths and was quick enough for me. Next thing this dude on a noisy clunker of an ebike with what looked to be a cyclone mid drive setup puts the moves on us and manages to get past us both on a really tight section of path. I hear the Lycra in front cursing him a bit, ##** bloody electric bikes. I was having a bit of a laugh under my breath as we came to a stop at a set of lights. I pulled up next to him for a bit of a chat. He starts telling me about how pissed off he was that the ebike overtook him and how it was cheating, usual stuff. I just agreed with him and baited him a bit. During the conversation this guy had no idea I was on an ebike also. So we took off again as best lycra buddy's at which point I switched to 750W mode and silently sped off to a 45kph cruise speed. That was the last I saw of him. Mission accomplished :lol: