New build. Full carbon 29er weight weenie Super Commuter.

Purchased a Bafang Fun geared hub with a low speed wind and laced it up into a new 700C rim. Bit of fiddling around but managed to squeeze in the disc and 8 speed cluster between the 135mm dropouts without stressing the chain stays.

Next job was to fab up a custom torque arm. This posed a bit of a challenge as there was no obvious anchor points and a clamping type torque arm was not going to suit the carbon chain stays. As this is a low powered setup, I figured that the setup only needed the single torque arm on the brake rotor side.

This is what I came up with.

IMG_1938.jpg

IMG_1939.jpg

View attachment 1

The motor hides reasonably well behind the gear cluster and brake rotor. Now working on the controller mount and wiring.

IMG_1943.jpg
 
Only riden the bike without assistance so far. The bike free rides really well with the little geared hub. You can feel the extra weight in the back when you pick up the bike but dont really notice it when riding. The motor weighs 3Kg as apposed to the friction drive which came in at 1.2 kg. However i had a really heavy duty tire on the friction drive setup to cope with the wear. take off 500g with a lighter tire and the stock hub and the weight penalty with the hub motor is only an extra 1200g so not too bad.

Tomorrow I have a 50km ride with my Lycra mates. I will take the Super Commuter rather then my road bike and see how it keeps up unassisted.
 
Worked most of the day on the controller. So time consuming. Fitted 100V components with a view to run 18S. Wired the controller for direct CA3 Plug in together with PAS sensor and 14 gauge silicon battery and phase cabling. The plan is for the CA to do all the PAS and throttle control. PAS assistance will be fully variable and setable from zero to full assist. There will be no traditional throttle with the PAS doing most of the work. However the plan isto fit a boost or launch button for getting off the mark and boosting assist when required.

So tomorrow I will work on mounting the controller. The controller will be under the bottom bracket so keeping it water proof is going to be a big factor. Hopefully I will get a run out of the motor tomorrow.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1944.jpg
    IMG_1944.jpg
    64.6 KB · Views: 2,544
barely noticable at all tucked in there behind the black disc spider and the freewheel!
How'd you go riding with your lycra mates ?
Did they notice the motor (unpowered) sitting in there or did you tell them ?

Seeing The 6 fet and CA side by side like that gives me ideas about a custom CA case that houses both the controller and the CA. Great for low powered stealthy FWD setups.
 
Ride went well. I did tell them the motor was there but no batteries so I had an excuse if I couldn't keep up. Turns out there was no need to worry as I had no problems at all keeping up. Not that it was a blistering pace after all it was a Sunday morning coffee shop circuit. Averaged 25 kph for the 50km.

Nice idea on the CA 6fet combo especially for a front wheel hub setup.

Got a run out of the motor yesterday. All seems seems ok so far on 18s but haven't actually ridden the bike with the motor yet. Spending quite a bit of time on mounting the controller and hiding the wiring. Probably the hardest part of the build. Made a custom junction box to house the phase, hall, and programming plugs out of HDPE plastic. Sit at the front of the controller kind of like the picture in my avatar. All that time spent mounting the friction drive didn't go to waste as it has really helped with this part of the build.
 
Not really as the controller uses exactly the same mounting system as the friction drive did.
Other thing is that the standard chain ring is about 400g lighter then the Schlumpf. Doesn't sound like much but not going with the Schlumpf and fitting a light weight rear tire saved a kg which in the context of this build, close to 10% of the entire bike. :shock:
 
Kepler said:
Not really as the controller uses exactly the same mounting system as the friction drive did.
Other thing is that the standard chain ring is about 400g lighter then the Schlumpf. Doesn't sound like much but not going with the Schlumpf and fitting a light weight rear tire saved a kg which in the context of this build, close to 10% of the entire bike. :shock:
Good point, however how much does the front derailuer, cabeling and extra shifter also add?
 
I think I just made myself a model T-rex :lol:

IMG_1953.jpg

IMG_1955.jpg

Mounting the controller securely under the bottom bracket was one thing but I wanted to hide the plugs and at the same time really protect them well from the elements so the bike could be used even if wet.

IMG_1957.jpg

IMG_1959.jpg

IMG_1964.jpg

IMG_1967.jpg

IMG_1970.jpg

Finally got a ride under power tonight. Just jerry rigged the the battery cables and fitted a thumb throttle for test purposes. Motor was surprisingly zippy at 600W. Dialed it down to 300W which actually still wasn't too bad. This is going to be be interesting. 8)
 
In your mind what is the max comfy Wattage you are willing to consistently pump through that setup?

Trex I like it, easy to market
 
Thanks guys.

t3sla, going by the first shakedown, I dont think I will go any higher the 500W at this stage. I am quite mindful of not wanting to stress the dropouts on this bike especially with a torque arm only on one side.

Also, I just plugged in 1.4mohm into the CA for now so the shunt could be a bit out and reading low. I will put a calibrated amp meter on the bike tonight and set the shunt up properly so I can judge the power more accurately.
 
Holy sh*tballs Kep, how did I miss this thread? Going home to get out of the heat and read all of it with a coldie - your builds are quality.

Singout if you need any bits fabbed on the 3D printer, you're handy with the CAD. Not sure if you're still trying to come up with friction material for your rollers. :?:

Quite by chance, many of the components on my dual drive aldibike are Venzo, I really like their headstock and bars.
 
Thanks Sam. Re the 3D printing, absolutely will take you up on that. .stl files OK?

Gave the bike its first serious assisted shakedown ride this morning. A short 12km run to work. Decided to start easy with 12S 3ah lipo combo. Ran PAS only with no other means of throttle. Power limited the controller via the CA3 to 350W. With having PAS only, it is kind of like just having a pedal operated on/off switch however the CA has some nice ramping features together with very tunable start and stop delays. I set it up for about two crank rotations to start assist and close to instant shut down when stop pedaling. The latest software in the CA also has a nice PAS feature that give instant start up if it sees the bike is still moving but reverts back to what ever you set the start delay to when you come to a full stop.

On 12S and 350W, the bike will reach around 35kph on flat ground unassisted. A bit of pedaling and still maintaining 35kph will see the current drop off to around 200W on flat ground. 25kph was easy to maintain on gradients that normally see me drop down 15kph unassisted.

Range wise, I used 1.2ah for the 12km so just over 50Whrs. These figures were not artificially boosted with lots of throttle off pedaling as the motor ran for most of time due to PAS only throttle control with the only way to stop the motor being to stop pedaling.

So on the ride home I will run 18S but still limit to 350W. I am interested to see how much extra speed I get out of the bike with the extra RPM.
 
.stl ftw, ideally zipped. I'll pm you my email.
 
Kepler - just found this thread - wow!

Congratulations on another impressive super-stealth super-lightweight build! Love the torque arm solution - ingenious, effective, and completely invisible.

-JD
 
I check this thread regularly in fear of frame failure :oops:

Get concerned every time it's got an update :(

Do you do a 10 point inspection every-time you get on or off the unit? :lol:
 
Well except for a bit of tweaking the bike is finally complete. :mrgreen: Some major changes to the concept halfway through but the whole purpose of the build stayed intact.

Here is an extract from my original post dating back to late January when the build began.

Recent experience's with the some nice quality commercial e-bikes got me fired up to look at building a low powered but high speed commuter / flatbar road bike that would be hard pressed to even be recognized as an e-bike by the general public using the local bike paths.

As a bit of back ground, after having a quick test of an e-motion Jumper just around a car park, it felt so impressive that I seriously considered purchasing one. So the next move was to go visit the suppliers and take the bike for a proper test ride. First impressions were very good with some nice assist. However, the bike was limited to 25kph assisted as per Aust / Euro regs. So to ride the bike at a decent speed, you needed to work twice as hard because effectively the motor assist was doing nothing for you and you were now trying to push a 20kg bike at a decent speed.

In addition to e-biking, I have to admit I am a closet Lycra and avern
age about 100km a week on my carbon road bike. Every time I get on this bike I am always blown away by the efficiency of these modern high performance road bikes. I have no doubt I could average a better speed on my road bike then I could on Aust. reg compliant e-bike.

Well after two months. the project finally draws to an end with most of the boxes ticked off.

So first a few pictures of the end result. :)

IMG_1973.jpg

IMG_1974.jpg

View attachment 10

IMG_1976.jpg

IMG_1977.jpg

Now to a few more details.

Firstly the bike can run with 10S to 18S. Surprisingly, (well to me anyway :) ) 12S is actually a perfectly adequate for the bike with a speed of 35kph which matches the cadences in top gear quite well. The battery bag fitted will hold up to 4 x 5S 5ah (10S 2P) Lipos so around 250Whrs max. I need to do some more riding to work out the best battery combo but I think 12S 5ah is going to be good fit and should be good for around 30kms on this bike.

Dare I say it but 18S actually feels too quick for this bike. The frame is so ridged and with 100psi in the Gaterskins, you feel every pebble. Fine for road riding, but too quick for bike paths. Really makes me appreciate my Fighter's plush suspension.

The carbon fibre cable covers have worked out well and hide the battery and Cycle Analyst cables really well.

IMG_1978.jpg

IMG_1979.jpg

IMG_1984.jpg

IMG_1985.jpg

Now to the controls.

Firstly the CA3 has been perfect for this build and hats off to Justin for producing such a fine product. Word of warning though, its not not for the plug and play ebiker. Special mention and thanks to Teklektik as his help has been invaluable in getting the CA3 setup for this bike.

For those not familiar wit h the CA3, basically it act as as a true extension to the controller taking care of all throttle control together with speed based PAS, torque based PAS, switchable power and speed levels, cruise control, ebrake, and many other features. Also because the CA3 has complete control over the throttle input to the controller, all limiting is completely smooth and tunable.

IMG_1981.jpg

This bike does not have a traditional throttle but instead uses a combo of Speed PAS, fully adjustable Watt limit, and push button throttle.

IMG_1982.jpg

IMG_1983.jpg

I wanted to integrate the controls into the bike in such a way that it didn't cutter up the handle bars but at the same time needed to be easy to operate with my hands still firmly on the grips.

The knob on the left gives you zero to 750W assist either from the PAS or from the button throttle on the right. The button throttle has a nice tunable ramp and is great for getting off the mark when you have come to a stop in a high gear and need to get moving again but cadence is too slow to fire up the PAS. So far, this control combo is really working well for this bike.

However, as much as I would like to say its the ulimate commuter, it does have a few undesirable features.

Firstly its a real bone shaker, the frame is so ridgid and the super slick Gaterskins have no give what so ever.
The bike is seriously over braked. Really did get a bit carried away on the brake spec with this bike :oops: Need to be super gentle or the bike will throw me over the top in a flash. Kind of glad I have a bit of weight in the back with the hub and batteries.
Lastly, the motor has a quite a growl to it which seems to resonate through the carbon frame. I need to pull the motor down and make sure there isn't a problem with the motor but if Ok, need to find a way to dampen out the resonance.

All in all I am quite pleased with the end result with most of the original goals obtained. As with most builds, it came out a little heavier than first estimated but 12kg to 13kg depending on battery configuration is still a good result.

IMG_1971.jpg

I will ride the bike for a while in its current config but dont be suprised if you see it converted to a hardtail and some nice soft tires :lol:
 
For bigger tires with a softer ride (but still fast), try Panaracer RiBMo 700x35s. They are more flat-resistant than Gatorskins, and cushier, but almost as fast as true sport tires.
 
I'm very impressed with your build!

As I'm small 56kg guy. Biking a ride like this would be a total of 70kg. How will that feel? :D. I have a 20" normal bike with 52t 14 crank and its quiet easy to bike around with.

good luck with its continue
 
Back
Top