Chalo
100 TW
I put these motors in the hands of technically ignorant and personally irresponsible pedicabbers riding sometimes rented trikes. So I run them at 36V and 22A. None of them have been cooked yet!
new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
- Start date
Hi guys..im also running a 3000w motor with my Cycle Analyst V3.
I am using the magnet on the spoke and pickup sensor/cable from the CA3 for the speedometer.
What is the # of poles are you guys setting your CA to? Stock firmware has it set at 23 poles but the speedometer doesnt work...stuck at 0.
Thanks
I am using the magnet on the spoke and pickup sensor/cable from the CA3 for the speedometer.
What is the # of poles are you guys setting your CA to? Stock firmware has it set at 23 poles but the speedometer doesnt work...stuck at 0.
Thanks
I finally got my clone all setup, with a cycle analyst v3 and a 20s battery. But, when I turn the bike on, and hit the throttle, the motor just grinds, and barely moves(pretty much just shakes a little). My first guess is that the phase wires are not connected in the right order (I replaced the connectors, but I matched the 3 colors to themselves, so seems odd that they would be wrong... it's just the way the motor sounds you would think it's out of phase).
Is there any way to figure out the correct phase order (ignoring the wire colors)... just to confirm that they are right?
I know this is rather vague, so not much to go by, but any advice would be nice. Aside from obvious mistakes, which I have not seen, I'm not sure what else to look for to diagnose the problem better. I suppose I could try changing the order of the phase wires... but guessing that may not be the best idea.... tho considering how it sounds, not sure how bad it could be in comparison (of course I've only tapped the throttle about 4 times now, twice on separate occasions for a split second... hopefully haven't done any further damage there)
EDIT:
I just realized that on the main motor connector, the 3 hall sensor wires did not match up... well yellow did, but blue and green did not match between the motor and the controller (kinda strange, these 2 connectors are ones I did not mess with/change at all)... anyway, I just rotated the blue and green wires on the controller side... then tested, giving just a little throttle... the motor moves a few degrees on the first try, and made pretty much no noise, and didn't move at all after that. The grinding is gone.. but considering there's no motion at all.. I don't know if that's any better. I still think it's strange they were out of order... but not sure if things are better or worse now... the grinding sound being gone at least sounds better... but before it at least seemed like it was trying to move, now it essentially feels like it's doing nothing.
EDIT2:
I just remembered, when I was mapping out all the wires and connection points inside my stock bluetooth controller, there was something odd about the phase wires and the hall sensor wires. This is how they came stock:
Phase wires
Green: A
Yellow: B
Blue: C
Main Motor Connector's Hall sensor wires:
Yellow: #8 - HA
Blue: #10 - HC
Green: #9 - HB
I would have expected the Phase color/letter to match up with the Hall sensor color/letter. ALSO, since my connector on the motor side is ordered Yellow, Green, Blue.... which if I switch green and blue around on the controller to match, then the controller's Hall sensor's would be in order, A, B C (that may mean nothing at all... but seems to make some sense).
Going on the assumption that the motor has the correct wires/colors (prob not the best assumption I suppose... but figured it was one possibility to try)... I connected the motor's Yellow sensor wire (hopefully Phase B) to Green(HB), the motor's Green sensor wire to Yellow(HA) and the motor's Blue to blue (HC).... With those connections the motor is back to making a grinding sound.... so 2 different orders of sensor wires are giving grinding sounds/shaking (like it's trying to move).... and 1 with no sound (and pretty much no motion, just kinda moves a degree or so on the first hit of the throttle, then not at all).
Anyway, still have that gut feeling that it's something to do with the phase... and the fact that the labels/colors don't match up inside the controller (with regards to the phase wires and the hall sensors).... AND the colors of the sensor wires didn't match on the motor to controller connection.... seems like I might be on the right track. Of course... there might be more wrong than just this... but I wanna work through the most probably possibilities first...
Any advice would be great. Sadly the current Phase connectors are soldered in place.... so I haven;t tried rotating them around.... but I might have to soon... but also wanna make sure I have the right sensor wires connected for each phase... I can only assume that on the controller side the Phase marked A should be with the sensor marked HA, and so on (tho the colors def don't match up then). On top of that.. I don't know for sure if the Motor's wire colors match up either.. and not sure how I could confirm that....is there a way to test with a multimeter, or something?
Is there any way to figure out the correct phase order (ignoring the wire colors)... just to confirm that they are right?
I know this is rather vague, so not much to go by, but any advice would be nice. Aside from obvious mistakes, which I have not seen, I'm not sure what else to look for to diagnose the problem better. I suppose I could try changing the order of the phase wires... but guessing that may not be the best idea.... tho considering how it sounds, not sure how bad it could be in comparison (of course I've only tapped the throttle about 4 times now, twice on separate occasions for a split second... hopefully haven't done any further damage there)
EDIT:
I just realized that on the main motor connector, the 3 hall sensor wires did not match up... well yellow did, but blue and green did not match between the motor and the controller (kinda strange, these 2 connectors are ones I did not mess with/change at all)... anyway, I just rotated the blue and green wires on the controller side... then tested, giving just a little throttle... the motor moves a few degrees on the first try, and made pretty much no noise, and didn't move at all after that. The grinding is gone.. but considering there's no motion at all.. I don't know if that's any better. I still think it's strange they were out of order... but not sure if things are better or worse now... the grinding sound being gone at least sounds better... but before it at least seemed like it was trying to move, now it essentially feels like it's doing nothing.
EDIT2:
I just remembered, when I was mapping out all the wires and connection points inside my stock bluetooth controller, there was something odd about the phase wires and the hall sensor wires. This is how they came stock:
Phase wires
Green: A
Yellow: B
Blue: C
Main Motor Connector's Hall sensor wires:
Yellow: #8 - HA
Blue: #10 - HC
Green: #9 - HB
I would have expected the Phase color/letter to match up with the Hall sensor color/letter. ALSO, since my connector on the motor side is ordered Yellow, Green, Blue.... which if I switch green and blue around on the controller to match, then the controller's Hall sensor's would be in order, A, B C (that may mean nothing at all... but seems to make some sense).
Going on the assumption that the motor has the correct wires/colors (prob not the best assumption I suppose... but figured it was one possibility to try)... I connected the motor's Yellow sensor wire (hopefully Phase B) to Green(HB), the motor's Green sensor wire to Yellow(HA) and the motor's Blue to blue (HC).... With those connections the motor is back to making a grinding sound.... so 2 different orders of sensor wires are giving grinding sounds/shaking (like it's trying to move).... and 1 with no sound (and pretty much no motion, just kinda moves a degree or so on the first hit of the throttle, then not at all).
Anyway, still have that gut feeling that it's something to do with the phase... and the fact that the labels/colors don't match up inside the controller (with regards to the phase wires and the hall sensors).... AND the colors of the sensor wires didn't match on the motor to controller connection.... seems like I might be on the right track. Of course... there might be more wrong than just this... but I wanna work through the most probably possibilities first...
Any advice would be great. Sadly the current Phase connectors are soldered in place.... so I haven;t tried rotating them around.... but I might have to soon... but also wanna make sure I have the right sensor wires connected for each phase... I can only assume that on the controller side the Phase marked A should be with the sensor marked HA, and so on (tho the colors def don't match up then). On top of that.. I don't know for sure if the Motor's wire colors match up either.. and not sure how I could confirm that....is there a way to test with a multimeter, or something?
Well, I figured it out. So, the sensor wires were actually correct from the start.... the green and blues are switched between the controller and the motor.... but apparently that is OK... BUT based on the sensor wires, and their connections on the main board.... I decided to switch the Green and Yellow Phase wires with each other.... which seems to have worked perfectly. Next up will be figurinmg out if I jumped the correct 3 speed wires (I actually removed the 3 speed connector entirely, and jumped it on the board... hopefully I got it right.. if not I'll be running in slow mode temporarily. I figure if I ride it for a day or two, then switch... it should be easy enough to figure out whether I'm in high speed or low speed mode then). I'm just glad I figured out the correct phase wires... ended up rigging up a male and female MT60 connector (what I used for the phase wires) to 3 XT150 connectors on each, so I could easily rotate the wires and figure out which is correct (would have used XT150 originally, but the wires were a little thin for them,... probably gonna order some 8-10 gauge 3 color wire to replace them sooner or later).
ebike11 said:
If your CA v3 is the speedo sensing version, which it sounds like it is, you need to set tire diameter not # poles to see speed. # poles is totally irrelevant cuz you're not getting your speed reading from the motor. I don't think I even set up # poles on mine.
Also it should probably work out of the box as I think it has a speed setting by default. So check that your pickup is close enough to the magnet.
Ok, looks like shit might still be messed up on my motor. Now with the green and yellow phase wires rotated between the controller/motor....when I hit the throttle, the motor goes forward like you would expect.... BUT it only does about 1-2 rotations, then it stops when I hit and hold the throttle. Then when I repeat hitting the throttle it'll move forward a bit a couple of times, until it hits a certain point where it no longer moves (seems like it's at some kind of balanced point... Where I have to move the motors position slightly to get it to move again).
Either way, the best I get is at most 2 rotations of the motor. Clearly something is still definitely wrong. It's better than before... Where it either made a grinding sound and barely moved, or didn't move at all. Presumably something is still wrong with the phase wires or phase sensors.... Anyone have any recommendations beyond blindly trying different orders of the phase and phase hall sensor wires?
Either way, the best I get is at most 2 rotations of the motor. Clearly something is still definitely wrong. It's better than before... Where it either made a grinding sound and barely moved, or didn't move at all. Presumably something is still wrong with the phase wires or phase sensors.... Anyone have any recommendations beyond blindly trying different orders of the phase and phase hall sensor wires?
Wow... I think I just got really lucky. After rotating my phase wires 2 times, I suddenly had the motor running in reverse, but seemingly with full power. The wiring for that was:
Controller's Blue to Motor's Green, Controller's Green to Motor's Blue, and Controller's Yellow to Motor's Yellow/Orange.... and with the hall sensor wires the way they came stock, where the controller's green went to the motor's blue, and the controller's blue to the motor's green.
Some what odd, considering I just read in this post, that my last setup with the green and yellow phase wires on the controller should be connected to the yellow and green motor phase respectively (as in not matching between the controller and motor): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/motors-and-kits/cyclone-3000w/8962-correctly-wiring-the-cyclone
BUT, since I had it working in reverse... there was a small note at the bottom of the above post, that said to "Swap the Blue and Yellow Phase wires, and the Blue and Green sensor wires to run in reverse"..... Since I had reverse (though not with the wiring that this would make you expect.... I simply took what I had, and swapped the Blue and Yellow, and the green/blue sensor wires.... which now made my 3 sensor wires match colors between controller/motor.... BUT my phase wires are now "Controller's Blue, to Motor's Yellow/Orange.... Controller's Green to Motor's Blue.... Controller's Yellow to Motor's Green".... THIS finally appears to work in the correct direction AND doesn't cut out after 2 rotations... seems like it actually just works correctly.
Can anyone make any sense out of this wiring at all, why this current wiring works correctly, but the "stock" wiring does not..... I suppose it has to make sense somewhere. I don't know if this info will help, or just confuse things more... but the controller's board had the Phase wire's labeled: Green "A", Yellow "B", Blue "C"..... BUT the sensor wires Yellow "HA", Green "HB", Blue "HC".... which made sense with the previous wiring.. BUT, the previous wiring jsut rotated 0-2 times before stopping when I hit the throttle... far from correct.
Controller's Blue to Motor's Green, Controller's Green to Motor's Blue, and Controller's Yellow to Motor's Yellow/Orange.... and with the hall sensor wires the way they came stock, where the controller's green went to the motor's blue, and the controller's blue to the motor's green.
Some what odd, considering I just read in this post, that my last setup with the green and yellow phase wires on the controller should be connected to the yellow and green motor phase respectively (as in not matching between the controller and motor): https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/knowledge-base/motors-and-kits/cyclone-3000w/8962-correctly-wiring-the-cyclone
BUT, since I had it working in reverse... there was a small note at the bottom of the above post, that said to "Swap the Blue and Yellow Phase wires, and the Blue and Green sensor wires to run in reverse"..... Since I had reverse (though not with the wiring that this would make you expect.... I simply took what I had, and swapped the Blue and Yellow, and the green/blue sensor wires.... which now made my 3 sensor wires match colors between controller/motor.... BUT my phase wires are now "Controller's Blue, to Motor's Yellow/Orange.... Controller's Green to Motor's Blue.... Controller's Yellow to Motor's Green".... THIS finally appears to work in the correct direction AND doesn't cut out after 2 rotations... seems like it actually just works correctly.
Can anyone make any sense out of this wiring at all, why this current wiring works correctly, but the "stock" wiring does not..... I suppose it has to make sense somewhere. I don't know if this info will help, or just confuse things more... but the controller's board had the Phase wire's labeled: Green "A", Yellow "B", Blue "C"..... BUT the sensor wires Yellow "HA", Green "HB", Blue "HC".... which made sense with the previous wiring.. BUT, the previous wiring jsut rotated 0-2 times before stopping when I hit the throttle... far from correct.
Finally got it all running good it seems, pretty damn fast too.
I managed to build a pretty nice battery. I took one of these 36v cases: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-36V-electirc-bicycle-battery-box-with-5V-USB-plug-36V-HaiLong-Battery-plastic-case/623665_32762997036.html
I got the 36v version because I was building a 20s battery... and simply hooked up the "36v" LED voltage display (just 4 LEDs red/green) to half the battery pack... figuring that should provide the correct display of the battery's charge state. After about 30 attempts I finally managed to fit 40 x Sanyo 20700A batteries (30A a cell, 20s2p configuration) WITH a Bestechpower HCX-D131 BMS (measuring 120mm x 80mm x 20mm.... a rather large BMS for this case... in fact was almost impossible to get it all to fit, nearly gave up and was just gonna use small balancing boards instead of a full BMS.... but after enough attempts I just barely made it all fit). I designed and 3D printed a structure to hold the batteries and BMS with just enough space to wire and close the battery case... significantly harder than I was expecting. While it wouldn't have been my first choice for a charging connection, I decided to use the stock 3 pin XLR built into the Battery case for charging. BUT, since I was running the case at twice the intended voltage... and at a relatively large Amperage (roughly 30-50A... topping off at 60A... I DID NOT use the stock discharge connection (which is built into the case where it slides onto the Base with a slide in connector, and the base is wired to the controller). I also managed to design and 3D print custom pieces to replace both male and female sides of the discharge connector (again after many tries), these utilize XT90 connectors, but the two pieces still slide together and function exactly like the original connectors did... just should handle the power I am trying to run through it. This custom discharge connector, while taking many tries... ended up working out extremely well, I am very happy with it. The case did require quite a bit of modification to fit the batteries and the BMS, I removed about 1/4 - 1/2 of the internal structure of the battery case, and like I said, took a TON of iterations to get it all together and functioning. BUT with the battery holder's structure and everything else, I'm hoping the support removed has been accounted for by enough to keep everything together and stable.
I'll post some pictures in a little while, and will also post the 3D models (both STL and fusion360 models that could be modified to account for different batteries and/or BMS sizes/quantity) if anyone is interested in trying to build a similar battery with this case.
I managed to build a pretty nice battery. I took one of these 36v cases: https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-36V-electirc-bicycle-battery-box-with-5V-USB-plug-36V-HaiLong-Battery-plastic-case/623665_32762997036.html
I got the 36v version because I was building a 20s battery... and simply hooked up the "36v" LED voltage display (just 4 LEDs red/green) to half the battery pack... figuring that should provide the correct display of the battery's charge state. After about 30 attempts I finally managed to fit 40 x Sanyo 20700A batteries (30A a cell, 20s2p configuration) WITH a Bestechpower HCX-D131 BMS (measuring 120mm x 80mm x 20mm.... a rather large BMS for this case... in fact was almost impossible to get it all to fit, nearly gave up and was just gonna use small balancing boards instead of a full BMS.... but after enough attempts I just barely made it all fit). I designed and 3D printed a structure to hold the batteries and BMS with just enough space to wire and close the battery case... significantly harder than I was expecting. While it wouldn't have been my first choice for a charging connection, I decided to use the stock 3 pin XLR built into the Battery case for charging. BUT, since I was running the case at twice the intended voltage... and at a relatively large Amperage (roughly 30-50A... topping off at 60A... I DID NOT use the stock discharge connection (which is built into the case where it slides onto the Base with a slide in connector, and the base is wired to the controller). I also managed to design and 3D print custom pieces to replace both male and female sides of the discharge connector (again after many tries), these utilize XT90 connectors, but the two pieces still slide together and function exactly like the original connectors did... just should handle the power I am trying to run through it. This custom discharge connector, while taking many tries... ended up working out extremely well, I am very happy with it. The case did require quite a bit of modification to fit the batteries and the BMS, I removed about 1/4 - 1/2 of the internal structure of the battery case, and like I said, took a TON of iterations to get it all together and functioning. BUT with the battery holder's structure and everything else, I'm hoping the support removed has been accounted for by enough to keep everything together and stable.
I'll post some pictures in a little while, and will also post the 3D models (both STL and fusion360 models that could be modified to account for different batteries and/or BMS sizes/quantity) if anyone is interested in trying to build a similar battery with this case.
Ugh, back to having some issues.... everything seems alright at first, but after a short period of riding, I keep running into problems. After getting up to speed a couple of times, the motor stops spinning when I hit the throttle. While riding, I don't hear/see any obvious issues... but when testing at home, with the bike on a stand, things seem better... except seemingly randomly instead of the motor spinning, it just squeals a little bit when I hit the throttle. I'm assuming this is happening while I ride as well, but when riding I did not hear the motor squealing when it wasn't working.... BUT that was likely due to ambient noises drowning the noise out, not that it wasn't actually happening. It's somewhat sporadic... tho far from occasional, generally only takes a couple of blocks, if not less, before the throttle is randomly cut out. It seems to happen at all speeds, and it doesn't take long before the motor doesn't want to do anything more than a short push, or almost nothing at all at times. While testing at home, it seems better, till it just "randomly" stops and sequels... and I have to rotate the engine a tiny bit before it wants to work again.
I say "randomly"... but I'm guessing it's not actually random, I just haven't figured out what exactly is happening when it doesn't work. I will say, the motor's chain is rather tight (but with the mount, the chain was either very tight, or when I added 2 links, WAY too loose to work at all, even with the tensioner setup as best I could, I tried nearly a dozen times before concluding there was no way the chain would work without removing those 2 links. BUT, while it's quite tight, I'm not getting the feeling that it's the issue... I think it's likely at close to a perfect tension for a high power motor... but just wanted to mention it. Also, when the motor is not spinning when I hit the throttle, and making the squealing noise, It doesn't feel like it jammed (though not entirely impossible)... but seems like it may be more internal to the motor. Is it possible that the phase/sensor wires could still not be correct?.... it just seems like it works enough that I would think they have to be correct... BUT I could be wrong. But seeing how it can get up to a decent speed, and has a good amount of torque... I would think they would have to be correct (especially when comparing to the previous setups I had that were entirely unusable). I was hoping it was a loose wire or something... but I haven't found anything to confirm that... from my inspections, the wires at least seem to be OK.... But I'll have to keep investigating. Also, I've I've felt the different connections, wires, and battery to see if anything is heating up more than it should... but I haven't noticed anything wrong at all, with that regard.... tho it does seem like it progressively gets worse from when I start riding... I might take the cycle analyst out of the equation temporarily... my gut tells me it's not the problem... but since I don't have much of a clue what is the issue at this point... I suppose the more things I can rule out the better. I'm tempted to replace some of the sensor connectors (maybe cables too)... just to be more confident in the connections not being loose... all the "large" wires seem to have solid connections... so i may not be a bad idea to make sure the smaller wires are also good.
I wish I had more to go by, but haven't been able to figure much out this time. I have yet to figure out the exact pattern... hence me calling it random. I'm not sure what to test.... I could play around rotating the phase wires... and maybe the hall sensor wires... BUT at least right now, I don't expect to get any better results than I currently am in any other configuration. But, I really don't know what to look for other than it goes forward or not. And since all the other configurations either did absolutely nothing, or grinded/squealed and shook a little, it seems like this is likely the correct setup.... BUT, considering it's drastically different than what it was supposed to be... I'm still not 100% confident. I would likely to at least rule that out, and be sure I have the correct wiring.. at least with regards to the phase and hall sensor wires. On top of multiple multimeters, I also have a good 4 channel oscilloscope if that would help investigate the signals.... just not sure what I would be looking for in the first place... so nor sure if it would be of any help.
Anyone have any advice on what I should try?
I say "randomly"... but I'm guessing it's not actually random, I just haven't figured out what exactly is happening when it doesn't work. I will say, the motor's chain is rather tight (but with the mount, the chain was either very tight, or when I added 2 links, WAY too loose to work at all, even with the tensioner setup as best I could, I tried nearly a dozen times before concluding there was no way the chain would work without removing those 2 links. BUT, while it's quite tight, I'm not getting the feeling that it's the issue... I think it's likely at close to a perfect tension for a high power motor... but just wanted to mention it. Also, when the motor is not spinning when I hit the throttle, and making the squealing noise, It doesn't feel like it jammed (though not entirely impossible)... but seems like it may be more internal to the motor. Is it possible that the phase/sensor wires could still not be correct?.... it just seems like it works enough that I would think they have to be correct... BUT I could be wrong. But seeing how it can get up to a decent speed, and has a good amount of torque... I would think they would have to be correct (especially when comparing to the previous setups I had that were entirely unusable). I was hoping it was a loose wire or something... but I haven't found anything to confirm that... from my inspections, the wires at least seem to be OK.... But I'll have to keep investigating. Also, I've I've felt the different connections, wires, and battery to see if anything is heating up more than it should... but I haven't noticed anything wrong at all, with that regard.... tho it does seem like it progressively gets worse from when I start riding... I might take the cycle analyst out of the equation temporarily... my gut tells me it's not the problem... but since I don't have much of a clue what is the issue at this point... I suppose the more things I can rule out the better. I'm tempted to replace some of the sensor connectors (maybe cables too)... just to be more confident in the connections not being loose... all the "large" wires seem to have solid connections... so i may not be a bad idea to make sure the smaller wires are also good.
I wish I had more to go by, but haven't been able to figure much out this time. I have yet to figure out the exact pattern... hence me calling it random. I'm not sure what to test.... I could play around rotating the phase wires... and maybe the hall sensor wires... BUT at least right now, I don't expect to get any better results than I currently am in any other configuration. But, I really don't know what to look for other than it goes forward or not. And since all the other configurations either did absolutely nothing, or grinded/squealed and shook a little, it seems like this is likely the correct setup.... BUT, considering it's drastically different than what it was supposed to be... I'm still not 100% confident. I would likely to at least rule that out, and be sure I have the correct wiring.. at least with regards to the phase and hall sensor wires. On top of multiple multimeters, I also have a good 4 channel oscilloscope if that would help investigate the signals.... just not sure what I would be looking for in the first place... so nor sure if it would be of any help.
Anyone have any advice on what I should try?
There are posts and threads about how to find the right phase/hall combination (combo).
There are theoretically 36 combinations, but most of those are duplicates of others, so what I'd recommend is going to the ES WIki and following the article there for Finding The Right Phase / Hall Combo Wiring (don't remember teh exact wording of the title). There's a thread with the same title as the article in the Motor Technology section, probably listed in the Sticky Index.
Until you're *sure* you have the right combination, I wouldn't recommend running the system under load, because you can overheat the motor and / or the controller, potentially burning out windings, damaging hall sensors, blowing FETs, etc. Then you end up with all sorts of possible problems, many of which have similar symptoms to each other, making it much harder to quickly narrow down which one(s) are there, and fixing them.
When you have the right combo, a system will not take but a couple of amps (typically) to run unloaded (off ground) at full throttle in the rotation direction you want.
If it takes a lot more, or it always runs rough, regardless of what wiring combo, you have a problem in the motor or controller or both, and you'll have to individually test each one to see if they're working.
http://ebikes.ca has troubleshooting info in teh Learn tab across the top of their site, that will help you test each of the parts that might be damaged, if you can't get it to run correctly with any combo.
You'll also want to disconnect anything other than the CA's shunt, so it is only *measuring* things, and is not *controlling* anything or *limiting* anything. That way you can be sure your problems are not caused by a wrong setting there.
Once the motor and controller and battery are known to be working correctly, *then* you can hook up and setup the CAv3. I'd recommend going to http://ebikes.ca and the CAv3 pages, then to the section about Teklektik's UUG, download the guide as linked there, and follow *all* steps from the very beginning to the very end to be sure you setup everything in the CA to match your usage and needs.
If you don't go thru all the settings, you may leave something (even something you don't use) set in a way that interferes with other things you do use, because a number of the settings interact with each other.
There are theoretically 36 combinations, but most of those are duplicates of others, so what I'd recommend is going to the ES WIki and following the article there for Finding The Right Phase / Hall Combo Wiring (don't remember teh exact wording of the title). There's a thread with the same title as the article in the Motor Technology section, probably listed in the Sticky Index.
Until you're *sure* you have the right combination, I wouldn't recommend running the system under load, because you can overheat the motor and / or the controller, potentially burning out windings, damaging hall sensors, blowing FETs, etc. Then you end up with all sorts of possible problems, many of which have similar symptoms to each other, making it much harder to quickly narrow down which one(s) are there, and fixing them.
When you have the right combo, a system will not take but a couple of amps (typically) to run unloaded (off ground) at full throttle in the rotation direction you want.
If it takes a lot more, or it always runs rough, regardless of what wiring combo, you have a problem in the motor or controller or both, and you'll have to individually test each one to see if they're working.
http://ebikes.ca has troubleshooting info in teh Learn tab across the top of their site, that will help you test each of the parts that might be damaged, if you can't get it to run correctly with any combo.
You'll also want to disconnect anything other than the CA's shunt, so it is only *measuring* things, and is not *controlling* anything or *limiting* anything. That way you can be sure your problems are not caused by a wrong setting there.
Once the motor and controller and battery are known to be working correctly, *then* you can hook up and setup the CAv3. I'd recommend going to http://ebikes.ca and the CAv3 pages, then to the section about Teklektik's UUG, download the guide as linked there, and follow *all* steps from the very beginning to the very end to be sure you setup everything in the CA to match your usage and needs.
If you don't go thru all the settings, you may leave something (even something you don't use) set in a way that interferes with other things you do use, because a number of the settings interact with each other.
Thanks for the response... I will search for the thread... the one I had previously found (which sounds like it may have been the one), at least at the time did not make sense for my situation... it involved more than just 3 phase wires and 3 hall sensors.. I forget exactly what it had said, but I will do my best to find the thread you speak of and follow it step by step.
I will have to check what the amps are currently when running the motor.... hopefully nothing has broken in the couple of test rides I have done.... OR, if anything ends up being broken, I'm praying it's the FETs in the controller, I have LOTs of good/better ones than the stock ones to replace them if that is the case (tho at least right now I don't think it is). I'm just very surprised IF the phase/sensor wires are not currently correct... considering how much it does currently work... I would not expect it to work as much as it does with an incorrect setup... BUT I could totally be wrong... maybe it is like a 6 cylinder engine misfiring on 2 cylinders.... if you're not used to the power the engine SHOULD have, the remaining 4 could feel like it's running well enough (given, that would at least be more obvious to me... I'm not exactly sure how an electric motor would compare).... BUT if the motor is running in the right direction, and unlike the previous attempts, somewhat close to what I would expect from the motor at times... with 3 phase wires, if 1 was wrong, then really 2 are wrong... and with the sensor wires, same thing... if 1 was wrong, actually 2 are.... in both cases, I wouldn't expect anything close to running correctly... which it sorta does.... tho that's with regards to just the wiring. I suppose something could be wrong internally as well (which I am hoping not... or at least hoping its the controller, and something I can fix, like the FETs).
BTW, the Cycle Analyst does not have it's own shunt... I wired in the CA connector myself, and wired across the controller's shunt. I also calculated the current Resistance of the controller's shunt for calibration. BUT, for the time being, I think I will simply not use it (unless I am testing something that would require information from it... IE. if I want to see the amps in real time, etc.) But as far as getting things working correctly... I will attempt to do that without the Cycle Analyst first... if I succeed, then I can bring the CA back into the equation... presumably, if I get that far, it shouldn't be that hard.
I'm also tempted to replace some of the smaller wire connectors... the main 7 pin connector on the motor/controller... though I might wait. The main benefit to the current stock connector is that I can relatively easily rotate wires (IE. the hall sensor wires)... BUT there is a chance that the "random" issues could be caused by an unstable connection... so once I am confident the wires are all matched up correctly, I will likely replace the connectors with something that will guarantee a solid connection... I have plenty of good connectors that can accomplish this (tho pretty much all the ones I am thinking of require soldering, hence me leaving the current ones temporarily).
I guess I will start with these Phase and hall sensor wires... I'll find the thread/howto you mentioned and follow it. Once I get that out of the way, I can start working on seeing if there are other potential problems, as well as preventing any new ones from showing up as best I can. Thanks for the help... hopefully I can at least get closer to finding out the real problem, and provide a better description here to see if anyone can help further.
I will have to check what the amps are currently when running the motor.... hopefully nothing has broken in the couple of test rides I have done.... OR, if anything ends up being broken, I'm praying it's the FETs in the controller, I have LOTs of good/better ones than the stock ones to replace them if that is the case (tho at least right now I don't think it is). I'm just very surprised IF the phase/sensor wires are not currently correct... considering how much it does currently work... I would not expect it to work as much as it does with an incorrect setup... BUT I could totally be wrong... maybe it is like a 6 cylinder engine misfiring on 2 cylinders.... if you're not used to the power the engine SHOULD have, the remaining 4 could feel like it's running well enough (given, that would at least be more obvious to me... I'm not exactly sure how an electric motor would compare).... BUT if the motor is running in the right direction, and unlike the previous attempts, somewhat close to what I would expect from the motor at times... with 3 phase wires, if 1 was wrong, then really 2 are wrong... and with the sensor wires, same thing... if 1 was wrong, actually 2 are.... in both cases, I wouldn't expect anything close to running correctly... which it sorta does.... tho that's with regards to just the wiring. I suppose something could be wrong internally as well (which I am hoping not... or at least hoping its the controller, and something I can fix, like the FETs).
BTW, the Cycle Analyst does not have it's own shunt... I wired in the CA connector myself, and wired across the controller's shunt. I also calculated the current Resistance of the controller's shunt for calibration. BUT, for the time being, I think I will simply not use it (unless I am testing something that would require information from it... IE. if I want to see the amps in real time, etc.) But as far as getting things working correctly... I will attempt to do that without the Cycle Analyst first... if I succeed, then I can bring the CA back into the equation... presumably, if I get that far, it shouldn't be that hard.
I'm also tempted to replace some of the smaller wire connectors... the main 7 pin connector on the motor/controller... though I might wait. The main benefit to the current stock connector is that I can relatively easily rotate wires (IE. the hall sensor wires)... BUT there is a chance that the "random" issues could be caused by an unstable connection... so once I am confident the wires are all matched up correctly, I will likely replace the connectors with something that will guarantee a solid connection... I have plenty of good connectors that can accomplish this (tho pretty much all the ones I am thinking of require soldering, hence me leaving the current ones temporarily).
I guess I will start with these Phase and hall sensor wires... I'll find the thread/howto you mentioned and follow it. Once I get that out of the way, I can start working on seeing if there are other potential problems, as well as preventing any new ones from showing up as best I can. Thanks for the help... hopefully I can at least get closer to finding out the real problem, and provide a better description here to see if anyone can help further.
OK, wow... so from a quick test of the 6 possible phase connections (while leaving my sensor wires in place... which actually has the blue/green on the controller rotated... which makes the 3 colors actually match between controller/motor). As I mentioned, I previously found matching controller's phase A (green) to motor's blue, phase B (Yellow) to motor's green, and phase C (blue) to motor's yellow seemed like it worked. At least from my past tests, it was by far the best... went forwards and didn't cut out instantly, and at least seemed to work correctly. Apparently I should have continued testing. This time, testing all 6 possibilities, from a no load test, with sensors as they are, it at least seem like I may have found a better (hopefully the correct) combo:
Controller's Phase A (green) to motor's yellow, B (yellow) to motor's blue, and C (blue) to motor's green.
Sadly due to the time, and apartment neighbors, I am only tapping the throttle repeatedly (when it works, and goes forward)... With the previous setup that "sorta" worked... roughly 15% of the throttle jerks failed (and when one failed, the motor's position need to be adjusted slightly or they would continue to fail)... I also saw the Amps running in the 2-3A range from my light taps to the throttle (not too bad from what I'm expecting). BUT, in the new config... while not extensively tested, I tapped the throttle close to 2 dozen times and it always worked. Also, the amps were significantly lower (generally in the 0.75-1A range, less than half the previous setup's, with about the same result). Of course this needs to be tested more... BUT the results are looking better than past ones, so definitely good news. I'm surprised the previous setup worked as much as it did, I did not expect that from incorrect wiring.
Now, I'm not sure if I should continue and test the senor wire combinations further. I mean, if I wanted to be completely thorough, I'd actually test the 6 different sensor combinations with not only the current "best" setup, but with the 5 others. But I'm not sure how necessary that is.. I'm also not sure how many "CORRECT" combinations are possible. I would not be surprised if there was indeed 2-3 possible combinations of phase and sensor wiring that could work correctly, or if there is indeed only 1 completely correct setup to go forwards, and only 1 to run the motor backwards.
I suppose it might make sense to at least test the different sensor combinations with the current best phase combination, tho I'm not 100% sure of the risk. Also, considering the current tests have been 100% successful (but limited in scope), the only thing I could currently find is that other combinations are not as good, or at best equal to the current. I'm not sure if I should simply keep this setup and extend the tests until there appears to be an issue... or if it's best to test all 36 combinations to be thorough. I suppose I can start by testing the 6 sensor combinations with the current phases... if the current is only seemingly correct one, maybe hold off of the other sensor tests for now.
EDIT: BTW, I ended up keeping the Cycle Analyst in use for now, running the throttle through it... that way I could limit the Amps as well as view the current usage. I set the Amps to 9 max... I suppose that's a little higher than maybe I should be for these test, tho I haven't gone close to that since I am only lightly hitting the throttle. I suppose depending on how the tests go, will depend on what steps further I take... so far this is looking good, but trying not to jump the gun a 3rd time, and get a better confirmation that this is indeed correct wiring... and to see if any issues are still noticeable, or if things appear 100% correct after multiple, increasingly taxing tests.
Controller's Phase A (green) to motor's yellow, B (yellow) to motor's blue, and C (blue) to motor's green.
Sadly due to the time, and apartment neighbors, I am only tapping the throttle repeatedly (when it works, and goes forward)... With the previous setup that "sorta" worked... roughly 15% of the throttle jerks failed (and when one failed, the motor's position need to be adjusted slightly or they would continue to fail)... I also saw the Amps running in the 2-3A range from my light taps to the throttle (not too bad from what I'm expecting). BUT, in the new config... while not extensively tested, I tapped the throttle close to 2 dozen times and it always worked. Also, the amps were significantly lower (generally in the 0.75-1A range, less than half the previous setup's, with about the same result). Of course this needs to be tested more... BUT the results are looking better than past ones, so definitely good news. I'm surprised the previous setup worked as much as it did, I did not expect that from incorrect wiring.
Now, I'm not sure if I should continue and test the senor wire combinations further. I mean, if I wanted to be completely thorough, I'd actually test the 6 different sensor combinations with not only the current "best" setup, but with the 5 others. But I'm not sure how necessary that is.. I'm also not sure how many "CORRECT" combinations are possible. I would not be surprised if there was indeed 2-3 possible combinations of phase and sensor wiring that could work correctly, or if there is indeed only 1 completely correct setup to go forwards, and only 1 to run the motor backwards.
I suppose it might make sense to at least test the different sensor combinations with the current best phase combination, tho I'm not 100% sure of the risk. Also, considering the current tests have been 100% successful (but limited in scope), the only thing I could currently find is that other combinations are not as good, or at best equal to the current. I'm not sure if I should simply keep this setup and extend the tests until there appears to be an issue... or if it's best to test all 36 combinations to be thorough. I suppose I can start by testing the 6 sensor combinations with the current phases... if the current is only seemingly correct one, maybe hold off of the other sensor tests for now.
EDIT: BTW, I ended up keeping the Cycle Analyst in use for now, running the throttle through it... that way I could limit the Amps as well as view the current usage. I set the Amps to 9 max... I suppose that's a little higher than maybe I should be for these test, tho I haven't gone close to that since I am only lightly hitting the throttle. I suppose depending on how the tests go, will depend on what steps further I take... so far this is looking good, but trying not to jump the gun a 3rd time, and get a better confirmation that this is indeed correct wiring... and to see if any issues are still noticeable, or if things appear 100% correct after multiple, increasingly taxing tests.
OK, so I got the basics working pretty damn well I believe. I took the Cycle Analyst out of the equation for the test ride... and HOLY SHIT.... this thing is a f*cking death trap. I could barely keep the front wheel on the ground... so much so that there was a number of occasions that I didn't even realize it was off the ground (and then there were the half dozen plus times that I'm amazed I didn't flip it). Needless to say, I need to get used to riding it... the only ebikes I have ridden don't even come close to a comparison as far as how this thing rides. While I'm sure I'll get a better feel for it quickly (it's also been a few months since I've done a lot of riding in general)... I'm thinking the Cycle Analyst's throttle ramping will be a very welcome feature. SADLY, I tried hooking up the CA during my ride... I had gotten through the basic setup procedure, up to setting the throttle in/out.... I'm not sure if that's the problem, or something else, but with the CA attached, and the throttle running through it, it was VERY funky, throttle cutting in and out and not working so well even when it was. I'm pretty sure I removed any limits on the thing, so not 100% sure what the problem is... BUT, should be easy enough to figure out now that I got the motor/controller working beautifully. Will likely do a few more rides like this, then tackle the CA issues.
The faces I was getting from people were hilarious... I opened the throttle almost full on the way up a pretty damn steep, and long hill.... 2 separate groups of people literally just had their jaws dropped, totally confused how I just got up the hill in a matter of seconds. Once I get comfortable on this thing, it's gonna be the death of me... hopefully not before. I'm pretty sure I do not need any gears on this bike.... was originally slightly worried I was going to need to... but after that ride, the speed I had up steep hills, let alone on level ground... I don't see any point in having them. I also gotta weigh this bike... it is incredibly light, and I'm only 155-160 lbs... I definitely hit my goal of making a powerful bike that I can easily carry up and down the stairs of my apartment building to use. I'm not sure of the weight right now, but feels close to 60lbs. The combined weight of me and the bike, compared to it's power, is just ridiculous. I'm thinking I might have gone a little overboard with this battery tho... can't wait to have the CA working correctly so see what kind of watts I'm pulling... I have a feeling this thing will easily hit 5k... tho I doubt I got up there this ride.. but damn... it's been a very long time since I had this shit scared out of me like that. I am seriously afraid of letting anyone test ride this... maybe once I have the CA working and can put it at like 1/3 power for their first ride. I'm pretty confident it's gonna be a long time before I have any thoughts of building something even more powerful... this should be enough for a while.
On a side note, I am now insanely jealous of you guys that have high power trikes with this engine... I could only imagine what that feels like, that's literally gotta be more fun than driving a Ferrari.
The faces I was getting from people were hilarious... I opened the throttle almost full on the way up a pretty damn steep, and long hill.... 2 separate groups of people literally just had their jaws dropped, totally confused how I just got up the hill in a matter of seconds. Once I get comfortable on this thing, it's gonna be the death of me... hopefully not before. I'm pretty sure I do not need any gears on this bike.... was originally slightly worried I was going to need to... but after that ride, the speed I had up steep hills, let alone on level ground... I don't see any point in having them. I also gotta weigh this bike... it is incredibly light, and I'm only 155-160 lbs... I definitely hit my goal of making a powerful bike that I can easily carry up and down the stairs of my apartment building to use. I'm not sure of the weight right now, but feels close to 60lbs. The combined weight of me and the bike, compared to it's power, is just ridiculous. I'm thinking I might have gone a little overboard with this battery tho... can't wait to have the CA working correctly so see what kind of watts I'm pulling... I have a feeling this thing will easily hit 5k... tho I doubt I got up there this ride.. but damn... it's been a very long time since I had this shit scared out of me like that. I am seriously afraid of letting anyone test ride this... maybe once I have the CA working and can put it at like 1/3 power for their first ride. I'm pretty confident it's gonna be a long time before I have any thoughts of building something even more powerful... this should be enough for a while.
On a side note, I am now insanely jealous of you guys that have high power trikes with this engine... I could only imagine what that feels like, that's literally gotta be more fun than driving a Ferrari.
Then you just need to disconnect the non-shunt/power wires temporarily. Anything that powers the CA or allows it to read current is necessary. (if you can't see the power usage you can't tell if things are working right)progrock said:
Anything that does not do those two things should be disconnected to be sure any problems you encounter are not from misconfiguration.
In the testing you need to apply continuous throttle, but at it's lowest range, so you can see the stable current as the motor spins.progrock said:
If you "tap" the throttle you'll only get bursts of current, which would be higher than normal stable current as it starts the motor going.
If you apply throttle higher than the lowest range, you risk damaging things when configuration is wrong.
The 2-3A current should happen under continuous spinning no-load at full throttle, *after* you find the right combination. Some motors take more, some take less, but there shouldn't ever be high currents under no load--that means something is wrong electrically or mechanically that you'd need to find and fix before continuing.
If you do this then you don't know what is causing any particular behavior--if it is the CA or the wiring or a defect.
You need to only use the power and shunt wires to the CA, using it only to monitor and not to control, unless you are *absolutely certain* that it is completely setup to all of the correct settings in all of the menus, and that it causes the bike to operate normally already.
If you've never had it running normally *for sure* with those CA settings, then leave it out of the control loop entirely.
If you don't do the testing the way it's recommended, then you won't know if the results you get are valid or not, and are guessing which thing is causing what.
THis is why you have to go step by step, and do just one thing at a time.
It is also why you have to go thru the CA's Guide and set it up one step at a time, with *all* of the steps, and not skip sections, unless you are already very familiar with all of it's options and exactly what each one does and what interactions it causes.
Thanks for all the advice... finally got to do some no load testing during the day, double checked all 36 possible configurations... at first I found 2 tht seemed like they could be right, but after comparing the two directly against each other, one was a clear winner. Was seeing roughly what you expected, actually the setup that appears correct compared to the other 35, was mostly under 2 amps at full throttle, tho was very close. The "second" best setup used more than twice the amps, and was audibly a little louder.... and possibly less smooth... tho not 100% sure if that's in my head due to the noise. Either way, after thoroughly checking all 36 combinations, this one is a clear winner... unless I want to go backwards really fast.
Next plan is to do a test ride with the CA's reading the shunt voltage... to see what kind of values I am getting on the road If all appears to still be going well, I will be attempting to calibrate the CA correctly. I also plan to replace the motor/controller's smaller connectors (ie, replacing the hall sensor connector.... replaced pretty much all the other connectors on the motor/controller.... well the phase/power wires... other than those, and the throttle, every other wire/connector has been removed, and a CA DP connector/wires has been added... almost took the throttle cable with it, but figure it's a good idea to keep that around, at least for now.
Quite happy that the controller appears to be functioning correctly. Considering the heavy amount of modifications I made, i wasn't totally confident it would be alright. Hopefully I'm not speaking too soon. The only thing really left to do to the controller will be replacing the FETs with some better ones... which I have quite a few that would do the job... will see if I ever get around to it. Planning on building a Lebowski controller next, I'm wondering if it will work well with the Cyclone... the FOC seems promising.
Next plan is to do a test ride with the CA's reading the shunt voltage... to see what kind of values I am getting on the road If all appears to still be going well, I will be attempting to calibrate the CA correctly. I also plan to replace the motor/controller's smaller connectors (ie, replacing the hall sensor connector.... replaced pretty much all the other connectors on the motor/controller.... well the phase/power wires... other than those, and the throttle, every other wire/connector has been removed, and a CA DP connector/wires has been added... almost took the throttle cable with it, but figure it's a good idea to keep that around, at least for now.
Quite happy that the controller appears to be functioning correctly. Considering the heavy amount of modifications I made, i wasn't totally confident it would be alright. Hopefully I'm not speaking too soon. The only thing really left to do to the controller will be replacing the FETs with some better ones... which I have quite a few that would do the job... will see if I ever get around to it. Planning on building a Lebowski controller next, I'm wondering if it will work well with the Cyclone... the FOC seems promising.
If the CA isn't already calibrated for the shunt value, then any current readings you got during testing previously may be very different from reality. However, as long as the current is still low, and you found a working combination that is the lowest current of all of them, then that should still be ok.progrock said:
The Guide and/or the http://ebikes.ca site has info on how to calibrate the CA to the controller's shunt. There are alternate methods posted on ES under
calibrat* shunt*
or
measur* shunt*
Thanks... I calculated my controller's Rshunt a while back, and double checked it more recently. Assuming the method I used is valid, I should be good. I'll double check to see if what UI did matches what is recommended there... I used the method described here pretty much exactly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okpFsoHNE7I (luckily I had bought an iCharger literally 3 days before I found this video)
What I was actually referring to was calibrating the throttle on the Cycle Analyst, that's the step I'm up to.
Also, I apparently need to see how I can adjust my BMS's discharge cutoff voltage. I'm using a Bestechpower HCX-D131... but it's technically a 24s version I am running as 20s (I was told by bestechpower that the BMS is completely capable of doing this without issue... but my battery just cutoff at 70V earlier today.... which I suppose isn't a horrible value to try not to go below, BUT, I still want to have the option to use the battery till it's at a lower voltage than that. I could be wrong, but my current guess is that is due to it being setup as a 24S model. ALSO, bestechpower's site claims that this cutoff voltage (which should be per cell, I believe) is adjustable.... among a few other values... BUT I see absolutely no information at all on how to accomplish this... considering my BMS, controller, and CA all have over discharge cutoffs... I definitely wanna be in control.
On a similar, side note... anyone using the android app for the stock bluetooth controller?... I have the bluetooth controller...not sure if there are actually any features I even care about... tho I would technically like to check it out. The problem is, when I went to install the unprotected app.... it literally wanted access to EVERYTHING.... and I mean everything. And even if the controller had some crazy crash detection feature where it would notify specific people and call an ambulance (needless to say it does not)... I still wouldn't want it to have half the access it's requiring me to accept to install. This is something I'm usually not as concerned about as maybe I should be... but never have i had an app list SOOO many things it wants access to... and I think maybe 1-2 of them might be viable... not the other 20 or so. Anyone have a way around this?... I was thinking about trying to use a cheap tablet or a phone that's not in use and clean... just to get the app running and see if there's anything at all I'd like to use/configure.... I just wanna be aware of the options.
BTW, just started putting together a Lebowski controller.... got a ways to go.. and still need close to half the parts(maybe less, I have a decent amount already).... plus gonna need to learn more about it... but I am very interested in trying it out with the cyclone. I was looking at the ASI BAC 800, which is tempting... but it doesn't support 20s batteries... while I suppose a 60v could be alright, at least for now I wanna stick to the 20s... but this Lebowski controller can easily support that and then some.. plus I've heard pretty good things about them... definitely wanna see what the fuss over FOC is about.
Anyway, I'm gonna go for a short ride to the store.... and then hopefully get to installing my ebrake sensors finally (had debated on using these, was tempted to get the nicer ones that ebikes.ca has eventually... but considering how scary this bike is... tho getting less so... I definitely think I shouldn't wait any longer to add the ebrake sensors... just hope I can get them installed/working cleanly, got carbon fiber brake handles, don't really wanna be drilling through them or anything)
What I was actually referring to was calibrating the throttle on the Cycle Analyst, that's the step I'm up to.
Also, I apparently need to see how I can adjust my BMS's discharge cutoff voltage. I'm using a Bestechpower HCX-D131... but it's technically a 24s version I am running as 20s (I was told by bestechpower that the BMS is completely capable of doing this without issue... but my battery just cutoff at 70V earlier today.... which I suppose isn't a horrible value to try not to go below, BUT, I still want to have the option to use the battery till it's at a lower voltage than that. I could be wrong, but my current guess is that is due to it being setup as a 24S model. ALSO, bestechpower's site claims that this cutoff voltage (which should be per cell, I believe) is adjustable.... among a few other values... BUT I see absolutely no information at all on how to accomplish this... considering my BMS, controller, and CA all have over discharge cutoffs... I definitely wanna be in control.
On a similar, side note... anyone using the android app for the stock bluetooth controller?... I have the bluetooth controller...not sure if there are actually any features I even care about... tho I would technically like to check it out. The problem is, when I went to install the unprotected app.... it literally wanted access to EVERYTHING.... and I mean everything. And even if the controller had some crazy crash detection feature where it would notify specific people and call an ambulance (needless to say it does not)... I still wouldn't want it to have half the access it's requiring me to accept to install. This is something I'm usually not as concerned about as maybe I should be... but never have i had an app list SOOO many things it wants access to... and I think maybe 1-2 of them might be viable... not the other 20 or so. Anyone have a way around this?... I was thinking about trying to use a cheap tablet or a phone that's not in use and clean... just to get the app running and see if there's anything at all I'd like to use/configure.... I just wanna be aware of the options.
BTW, just started putting together a Lebowski controller.... got a ways to go.. and still need close to half the parts(maybe less, I have a decent amount already).... plus gonna need to learn more about it... but I am very interested in trying it out with the cyclone. I was looking at the ASI BAC 800, which is tempting... but it doesn't support 20s batteries... while I suppose a 60v could be alright, at least for now I wanna stick to the 20s... but this Lebowski controller can easily support that and then some.. plus I've heard pretty good things about them... definitely wanna see what the fuss over FOC is about.
Anyway, I'm gonna go for a short ride to the store.... and then hopefully get to installing my ebrake sensors finally (had debated on using these, was tempted to get the nicer ones that ebikes.ca has eventually... but considering how scary this bike is... tho getting less so... I definitely think I shouldn't wait any longer to add the ebrake sensors... just hope I can get them installed/working cleanly, got carbon fiber brake handles, don't really wanna be drilling through them or anything)
Just found this topic...to be honest, I am too lazy to go back and read all 113 pages, can somebody summarize regarding two questions?
1. How does the Cyclone compare to the LIghtning Rod Small Block (LRSB) as far as performance and reliability?
I can see the price differences and obviously the LRSB is more money. I am currently running a BBSHD and just want more power...tried to buy a Ludicrous controller from Luna but they won't sell me one because I haven't spent enough money with them. I understand it is a business decision and nothing personal. So now I need to make an engineering decision and decide which option to go with...Cyclone, LRSB, or stick with my BBSHD and run an external controller.
2. If I run a 3 speed Sturmey Archer rear hub (CS-RK3), how does it hold up with the Cyclone or the LRSB?
Question is assuming I take care of the hub, don't shift under power, keep it lubed, etc. The reason I want to run the CS-RK3 is I can run a single cog and get my chain line perfect. It is set up for a cassette but I plan to use a single speed conversion and one cog. Long story on the chain line but this will allow me to get it straight.
My sincere thanks for a summary
.
1. How does the Cyclone compare to the LIghtning Rod Small Block (LRSB) as far as performance and reliability?
I can see the price differences and obviously the LRSB is more money. I am currently running a BBSHD and just want more power...tried to buy a Ludicrous controller from Luna but they won't sell me one because I haven't spent enough money with them. I understand it is a business decision and nothing personal. So now I need to make an engineering decision and decide which option to go with...Cyclone, LRSB, or stick with my BBSHD and run an external controller.
2. If I run a 3 speed Sturmey Archer rear hub (CS-RK3), how does it hold up with the Cyclone or the LRSB?
Question is assuming I take care of the hub, don't shift under power, keep it lubed, etc. The reason I want to run the CS-RK3 is I can run a single cog and get my chain line perfect. It is set up for a cassette but I plan to use a single speed conversion and one cog. Long story on the chain line but this will allow me to get it straight.
My sincere thanks for a summary
.
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
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The Cyclone wins hands down. It is very reliable (gman's probably over 7500 miles with his 3 Cyclone trikes) and extremely powerful (good for 6500W peaks). It doesn't use a belt that can break. Ask Dingus about his experience with the belt. I've also had a 20mm belt break on my GNG mid drive. You don't want a belt.
You can also have any chainline you want with the Cyclone 3000. The BBSHD would only be an option if you can get a metal gear for it.
The Cyclone's stock controller can easily be shunt-modded to 90A with some solder.
How do you plan to use this bike?
I liked it so much I bought 2 of them.
You can also have any chainline you want with the Cyclone 3000. The BBSHD would only be an option if you can get a metal gear for it.
The Cyclone's stock controller can easily be shunt-modded to 90A with some solder.
How do you plan to use this bike?
I liked it so much I bought 2 of them.
Bullfrog said:Just found this topic...to be honest, I am too lazy to go back and read all 113 pages, can somebody summarize regarding two questions?
1. How does the Cyclone compare to the LIghtning Rod Small Block (LRSB) as far as performance and reliability?
I can see the price differences and obviously the LRSB is more money. I am currently running a BBSHD and just want more power...tried to buy a Ludicrous controller from Luna but they won't sell me one because I haven't spent enough money with them. I understand it is a business decision and nothing personal. So now I need to make an engineering decision and decide which option to go with...Cyclone, LRSB, or stick with my BBSHD and run an external controller.
2. If I run a 3 speed Sturmey Archer rear hub (CS-RK3), how does it hold up with the Cyclone or the LRSB?
Question is assuming I take care of the hub, don't shift under power, keep it lubed, etc. The reason I want to run the CS-RK3 is I can run a single cog and get my chain line perfect. It is set up for a cassette but I plan to use a single speed conversion and one cog. Long story on the chain line but this will allow me to get it straight.
My sincere thanks for a summary
Thanks robocam...great info.
I ride off road 100% of the time. Mainly single track with a maximum speed of approximately 15-17 mph.
Has anybody run a Sturmey Archer CS-RK3 rear hub...or any 3 speed hub for that matter with the Cyclone? How did it work...or did it work? My plan is to gear it so that I run 2nd gear (straight thru) most of the time and have 3rd gear just to get to and from the trails.
I ride off road 100% of the time. Mainly single track with a maximum speed of approximately 15-17 mph.
Has anybody run a Sturmey Archer CS-RK3 rear hub...or any 3 speed hub for that matter with the Cyclone? How did it work...or did it work
? My plan is to gear it so that I run 2nd gear (straight thru) most of the time and have 3rd gear just to get to and from the trails.
robocam
10 kW
- Joined
- May 29, 2014
- Messages
- 773
15-17 mph? You could probably leave it in one gear the whole time then. I can almost hit those speeds in my climbing gear (32T chainring going to a 50T in the cassette of my 29er). If you get it with the stock 1:1 chainrings, you'll probably exceed those speeds in your lowest gear. Even at the stock 40A limit with 52V, I can pretty much leave it in one of the middle gears the whole time while riding off road. It has so much more torque than the BBSHD. It will for sure put a huge smile on your face if you haven't tried something more powerful =)
Bullfrog said:Thanks robocam...great info.
I ride off road 100% of the time. Mainly single track with a maximum speed of approximately 15-17 mph.
Has anybody run a Sturmey Archer CS-RK3 rear hub...or any 3 speed hub for that matter with the Cyclone? How did it work...or did it work
One gear...that was what I was hoping .
I have a 14s6p (-25r cells) battery so plenty power available...I wanted to hot rod my BBSHD but Luna won't sell me a Ludicrous Controller and I don't have the patience to pick the potting out of a stock controller to do the shunt mod. If I have to go to an external controller on my BBSHD then the nice clean installation goes away and the Cyclone starts to become much more attractive since it looks like it will handle the power better than a modded BBSHD.
Where is the best place to buy a Cyclone kit?
.I have a 14s6p (-25r cells) battery so plenty power available...I wanted to hot rod my BBSHD but Luna won't sell me a Ludicrous Controller and I don't have the patience to pick the potting out of a stock controller to do the shunt mod. If I have to go to an external controller on my BBSHD then the nice clean installation goes away and the Cyclone starts to become much more attractive since it looks like it will handle the power better than a modded BBSHD.
Where is the best place to buy a Cyclone kit?
dirkdiggler
10 kW
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2012
- Messages
- 641
Same here with the I liked it so much I bought two. Plus the price is half the BBSHD. You will end up spending more time in the garage. Mostly chain issues. Chains wear out quicker and get torn apart with 6kw. If you keep it slow things will last longer. You'll also need to stiffen the mounting brackets. That's the biggest issue with the Cyclone. Luna has an upgraded version of the bracket which might work better than the old one. I haven't read anyone say whether it was better or not. If you are up for a little garage time, the Cyclone is a sweet way to up your power level. Sick bike parts also has them if you are in the US. Maybe Luna will sell you the controller for your BBSHD with your order. 8)
Do you have to run an ISIS bottom bracket to install the Cyclone?
My current frame has a square taper and the actual frame is 112 mm wide.
Sick Bike Parts does have a nice installation manual for the Cyclone...if you are a newb like me:
http://sickbikeparts.com/content/Manuals/SBPElecManual001RevA.pdf
My current frame has a square taper and the actual frame is 112 mm wide.
Sick Bike Parts does have a nice installation manual for the Cyclone...if you are a newb like me:
http://sickbikeparts.com/content/Manuals/SBPElecManual001RevA.pdf
