new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
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StinkyGoalieGuy
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That new mini-cyclone looks like the original Cyclone kits with the motors made by Headline. I think it's the same ones used by Kranked Bikes and AFT. If so, the cases are aluminum and you can get optional heat sinks that fit around it with a big hose clamp. That standard controller would peak around 40 amps so you would peak around 2000 watts IIRC. The reduction gears are metal so it sounds like a muffled cordless drill. It's a pretty reliable unit, but loud, at least for my standards. I also seem to remember the reduction being 1:9.3. Given the choice, I would rather go with the Cyclone 3000. It's cheaper and can handle more watts, but it is bigger.
Yes, I was warned that the stock mount would bend and start throwing chains, but I waited until it happened. The first image is my 100 mm Motobecane fat bike install, which is a Robocam mount with an aluminum brace in the middle. The second Cyclone is my 73 mm mountain bike which has a Dingus mount. Note: the 73 mm ISIS crank arm barely cleared the left side of the motor when the side braces were added. The square aluminum brace (in the middle) did not impair ground clearance at all.Apex
10 W
New guy here. Just received my cyclone 3000 kit from sick bike parts. It's going on an old 90s Giant Yukon. Steel frame, nil suspension.
My plan is to power it with a homade li ion pack harvested from laptop batteries.
I have around 150 18650 cells, of which about 130 are testing as good for condition.
They are 2600 mah, and mostly 2c, but some seem to be 1.5c, still searching for spec data on some mostly samsung, lg, and other name brands.
So my first question is, what kind of discharge capability do I need to run the cyclone at 48v?
My plan was a 13s10p pack that would be a 48v 26ah pack. Is that not enough discharge rate for the 40a controller capability?
Thanks for all the info in this thread, it will help with my first electric build.
My plan is to power it with a homade li ion pack harvested from laptop batteries.
I have around 150 18650 cells, of which about 130 are testing as good for condition.
They are 2600 mah, and mostly 2c, but some seem to be 1.5c, still searching for spec data on some mostly samsung, lg, and other name brands.
So my first question is, what kind of discharge capability do I need to run the cyclone at 48v?
My plan was a 13s10p pack that would be a 48v 26ah pack. Is that not enough discharge rate for the 40a controller capability?
Thanks for all the info in this thread, it will help with my first electric build.
spinningmagnets
100 TW
Find some way to add a 3-way switch, and leave it on the most severe restriction of amps. If the controller you are using can provide 40A at max throttle, you need a battery that can provide 40A without getting hot.
I understand that you may be starting out with the battery that you can afford, but once the bike is running, save every penny up to buy a high amp battery. The problem you will likely have then is that the stock mounting brackets will flex. Once you fix the flex, the 48V X 40A = 1900W can bend and break bicycle parts, especially if you like to pop wheelies.
I understand that you may be starting out with the battery that you can afford, but once the bike is running, save every penny up to buy a high amp battery. The problem you will likely have then is that the stock mounting brackets will flex. Once you fix the flex, the 48V X 40A = 1900W can bend and break bicycle parts, especially if you like to pop wheelies.
Apex
10 W
Yes, I see that the stock controller has the 3way wire set for limiting amps. Do we know for sure what those limits are? I read somwe here it was 20a (low), but not sure of the middle, "factory" setting.
And according to my calculations the 13s10p should get me a 39amp discharge rate. So instead of building a battery pack not capable of full throttle, I would rather keep sourcing 18650s untill I have enough for a proper discharge capability.
And yes, I'm aware of the mount flex issues, as well as the freewheel and crank weaknesses of the stock equipment when pushing max power.
Those will be addressed in the future, but I want to get the battery right the first time. If I'm going to spot weld up a pack, I don't want to tear it down to add cells later.
And according to my calculations the 13s10p should get me a 39amp discharge rate. So instead of building a battery pack not capable of full throttle, I would rather keep sourcing 18650s untill I have enough for a proper discharge capability.
And yes, I'm aware of the mount flex issues, as well as the freewheel and crank weaknesses of the stock equipment when pushing max power.
Those will be addressed in the future, but I want to get the battery right the first time. If I'm going to spot weld up a pack, I don't want to tear it down to add cells later.
robocam
10 kW
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The 3 speed settings do not limit current. They limit the rpm.
Your 10p battery should be fine. You're not likely to draw 40A continuously, and batteries can handle higher current draws temporarily. The mount, freewheel and your frame should have no issue at 48V. The only thing you should do is secure the end of the motor with one 1/2" bar as I described in this post.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209776
I'd love to know what spot welder you're using if you make a successful pack. I've been trying to find one for a while.
Your 10p battery should be fine. You're not likely to draw 40A continuously, and batteries can handle higher current draws temporarily. The mount, freewheel and your frame should have no issue at 48V. The only thing you should do is secure the end of the motor with one 1/2" bar as I described in this post.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209776
I'd love to know what spot welder you're using if you make a successful pack. I've been trying to find one for a while.
Apex said:
Apex
10 W
Not sure which welder to pick up.
The sunkko 788 seems draw crazy amps at startup, blowing breakers. The 709a is about what I'm looking for, but I've seen many posts about how unreliable they are.
Of course, the JP kit is no longer available, so it seems there are no good answers for a hobby use spot welder.
The sunkko 788 seems draw crazy amps at startup, blowing breakers. The 709a is about what I'm looking for, but I've seen many posts about how unreliable they are.
Of course, the JP kit is no longer available, so it seems there are no good answers for a hobby use spot welder.
robocam
10 kW
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You could wire a 220V outlet to your work area. I added one to my garage for a welder. It's super easy to do.
I think soldering might be a better idea. That's probably what I'll do. I've been wanting to turn my 52V pack into a 72V pack, but I don't know what BMS to buy.
I think soldering might be a better idea. That's probably what I'll do. I've been wanting to turn my 52V pack into a 72V pack, but I don't know what BMS to buy.
Apex said:
I am planning on using the cyclone 3000w on a quad I am designing where the motors would be directly connected to each rear wheels via a shaft. The wheel has an OD of 23" which means if the motor spins 900 rpm (what I've read) that would mean a top speed of 59mph! That is way too fast. Can anyone verify this rpm top speed? Or maybe somebody knows of some motors with a max rpm more like 500 rpm?
StinkyGoalieGuy
100 W
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- Apr 23, 2008
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For those that have this motor, is it significantly quieter at 48-52 volts vs. 72 volts? My design goals are quiet, 32% off-road grade climbing at 12MPH, preferably 15. Top speed on the flats only need to be 27MPH. My bad idea, thought of the day is use a Cyclone 3000 at 48 volts but run at 50 or 60 amps. I wonder if that would get me enough torque to climb that hill if gear reduced to 15mph. I wonder if at 48volts, it gets down to BBSHD sound levels. In parallel, I'm trying to run a BBSHD at higher amps to see if I can get up that hill at even 8 MPH, but I haven't had success running the BBSHD off an external controller yet, though I have only tried one. As a datapoint, I used to get up that hill on an Astro 3215, with a total reduction of 35:1 (motor to 26" wheel) at 12 MPH. That was using around 53amps, at 43 volts, so 2300-ish watts. The Astro was at screaming loud high RPMs of course.
Yes, I do know that low rpms, high torque with high amps is tough on the drive train. That's a trade-off I'm willing to take to lower the noise.
Yes, I do know that low rpms, high torque with high amps is tough on the drive train. That's a trade-off I'm willing to take to lower the noise.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
get a set of earplugs for yourself -- cheap-er than an ipod.
StinkyGoalieGuy
100 W
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DingusMcGee said:
That doesn't help with anyone else around me. I'm trying to not draw any attention.
le15otl
100 W
I would say it's very roughly the same loudness only at 72 it's much more of a high pitched sound - more annoying - so feels noisier. I don't think it's big problem at all personally but if you only want 27mph top speed then may as well get 48v as it's less noisy and should have the power. I can get up any hill at 15mph with 48v but i am fairly light weight
The Cyclone 3000 is called "waterproof", but I've had the Cyclone apart and there are no gaskets. The side plates are metal to metal contact with loose enough tolerances that you can work them off by hand. There is no way that the Cyclone motor is "waterproof".
I was shocked to look at the photo of the rusted armature on Karl's BBSHD and the BBSHD has gaskets.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/09/16/spray-varnishing-your-bbshd-to-protect-it-from-rust-while-winter-riding/
I was shocked to look at the photo of the rusted armature on Karl's BBSHD and the BBSHD has gaskets.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/09/16/spray-varnishing-your-bbshd-to-protect-it-from-rust-while-winter-riding/
evolutiongts
10 kW
For those of you who are interested.
I wired up my BBSHD to the cyclone 3000w 40a controller. It runs ridiculously well at 74V power is now very similar to the cyclone 3000w I've had both motors.
I wired up my BBSHD to the cyclone 3000w 40a controller. It runs ridiculously well at 74V power is now very similar to the cyclone 3000w I've had both motors.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Was The Washer Job of gman 1971: A Pipe Dream? Well Yes, here is why.
First the Luna C-3000 is touted/sold as for off road use only. The trike kid is a pavement rider -- Wisconsin style. Can you imagine a trike off-road? Save yourself a lot of trouble/maintenance if you only ride only pavement by getting a hub motor.
What happens during off-road use? Even if the washer job motor frame can take what little extra torque gman gets with his higher voltage trike on pavement choosing this motor frame enhancement is far short of what you'll need for keeping a true frame when mimicking the likes ordinary encounters/responses while on petal only mt bikes while on just moderate trails.
My very stiff motor frame which is much stiffer than a washer job even with the Robocam addition holds up to some quite severe asymmetrical impact loadings. It just so happens that during all but the quite moderate trail riding you get a chance to jump a log laying across the trail or bound over a boulder field. Not all my attempts to ride over, across or through these obstacles have gone without some additional contact areas other than the tires. Yes, my motor fins are bent flat and there are scars where rocks have hit the motor bottom. The thing doesn't overheat. The washer job will not hold up to this kind of riding...
The washer job is Pure Crap for anything but pavement.
Do you wonder why such a pavement warrior as gman would think his advise was practical for off road riders? He thinks 4000 miles? of riding pavement is worthwhile advise for all of us. Again Pure Crap.
First the Luna C-3000 is touted/sold as for off road use only. The trike kid is a pavement rider -- Wisconsin style. Can you imagine a trike off-road? Save yourself a lot of trouble/maintenance if you only ride only pavement by getting a hub motor.
What happens during off-road use? Even if the washer job motor frame can take what little extra torque gman gets with his higher voltage trike on pavement choosing this motor frame enhancement is far short of what you'll need for keeping a true frame when mimicking the likes ordinary encounters/responses while on petal only mt bikes while on just moderate trails.
My very stiff motor frame which is much stiffer than a washer job even with the Robocam addition holds up to some quite severe asymmetrical impact loadings. It just so happens that during all but the quite moderate trail riding you get a chance to jump a log laying across the trail or bound over a boulder field. Not all my attempts to ride over, across or through these obstacles have gone without some additional contact areas other than the tires. Yes, my motor fins are bent flat and there are scars where rocks have hit the motor bottom. The thing doesn't overheat. The washer job will not hold up to this kind of riding...
The washer job is Pure Crap for anything but pavement.
Do you wonder why such a pavement warrior as gman would think his advise was practical for off road riders? He thinks 4000 miles? of riding pavement is worthwhile advise for all of us. Again Pure Crap.
robocam
10 kW
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- May 29, 2014
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- 773
Here's my solution to the water resistance problem. On the lowest point of the motor, I drilled a hole on each side (only do this with both covers open so that you can see where you're drilling - otherwise you may hit the coils). This allows water to drain out. I also drilled out one of the threaded holes on the motor cover and re-threaded it to a larger size. I keep a screw in it. After I wash my bike, I remove the screw and blow some air into the hole to get rid of any remaining water near the bottom by the holes. It works wonderfully. Some of you are probably concerned about water entering the holes. It hasn't been an issue for me. I did the same thing to my GNG's motor, and it has worked great as well. Alternatively, you could silicone the whole thing if you're convinced water cannot enter. I'm not worried about water entering temporarily (based on what happened to me before in the link at the bottom of this post), so that's why I've chosen this method.
This is where I drilled the hole for injecting air.
After a ride like this, I just hose it down, and I'm good to go! =D
Here's my GNG above.
Hopefully, this will prevent this (in the link below) from ever happening again. Though this demonstrated that even if water sits in the motor for many days, the worst that can happen is damaged hall sensors, which are not too difficult to replace.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209434
This is where I drilled the hole for injecting air.
After a ride like this, I just hose it down, and I'm good to go! =D
Here's my GNG above.
Hopefully, this will prevent this (in the link below) from ever happening again. Though this demonstrated that even if water sits in the motor for many days, the worst that can happen is damaged hall sensors, which are not too difficult to replace.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209434
sather said:
Attachments
robocam
10 kW
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- May 29, 2014
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When he was using the washer mod, he was "only" using 44V, so maybe it works at that voltage? When the washer mod failed on my bike, I was using 52V. So far, my mount modification has served me well at 52V. I think Dogboy's mod is one of the easiest solutions for those new to the Cyclone.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209776
Sounds like you do the kind of riding I like. How do you jump a log with the additional weight of the motor and batteries? I've been wondering if it's possible to bunny hop my heavy bike. You should make some videos of your riding.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1275#p1209776
Sounds like you do the kind of riding I like. How do you jump a log with the additional weight of the motor and batteries? I've been wondering if it's possible to bunny hop my heavy bike. You should make some videos of your riding.
DingusMcGee said:
evolutiongts
10 kW
robocam said:
I've had both motors but off the seat of my pants I can't say for certain that the BBSHD is weaker. I'm still having a hard time keep the front wheel down on steep hills. The stock BBSHD never did that.
evolutiongts
10 kW
With the Cyclone controller it is louder than the stock Bafang controller, but it sounds like a RC car.
I have a sinewave controller, just grabbed the programming cable on it so more testing to come.
I'm using the luna mighty mini 30T, incredible torque. Literally sliding all over the place on the dirt.
I hit 40mph on a long stretch of road, heat is minimal.
Not having a exposed secondary reduction is a god send, the Cyclone has so many issues, I broke everything from cranks, to derailers, chains, bent motor mounts, etc
I have a sinewave controller, just grabbed the programming cable on it so more testing to come.
I'm using the luna mighty mini 30T, incredible torque. Literally sliding all over the place on the dirt.
I hit 40mph on a long stretch of road, heat is minimal.
Not having a exposed secondary reduction is a god send, the Cyclone has so many issues, I broke everything from cranks, to derailers, chains, bent motor mounts, etc
Föppel
100 W
Hey guys, i was checking out some motors for new projects.
The Cyclone 3000w is pretty cheap, so why dont give it a try.
At my drawings i have a "Between-pedals-space" of about 175mm. I took that measurement from my LR-Kit Bike, with a 72mm BB + a ISIS-Crank set.
Now i found a drawing on the Cylclone-page that says:
whole Motor + 2cm shaft = 171mm
So that fit in, veeery tight, but chainline would be a problem.
The Chain coming from the motor would need a spocket something like 5cm away from my BB wich would create a big lever arm and all kind of spacing washers at the Crank-Plate...
Do you use wider BB-cartiges than the ISIS (wich is 148mm without the pedalarms) to get a good chainline?
Cheerio
The Cyclone 3000w is pretty cheap, so why dont give it a try.
At my drawings i have a "Between-pedals-space" of about 175mm. I took that measurement from my LR-Kit Bike, with a 72mm BB + a ISIS-Crank set.
Now i found a drawing on the Cylclone-page that says:
whole Motor + 2cm shaft = 171mm
So that fit in, veeery tight, but chainline would be a problem.
The Chain coming from the motor would need a spocket something like 5cm away from my BB wich would create a big lever arm and all kind of spacing washers at the Crank-Plate...
Do you use wider BB-cartiges than the ISIS (wich is 148mm without the pedalarms) to get a good chainline?
Cheerio
