new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[DingusMcGee]

Robocam,

come on, wake up, what I have pointed it out that when trailing riding it is the obstacles your motor/motor frame hits that bend a non-stiff motor frame [washer job] not all that supposed gman torque, yet you still are defending trike boy, " ..he had 44v then..."

Bunny Hop: Not exactly that motion, but as you offer, it is hard to pick up the front and just as hard to lift the rear on a middrive. The timed motion you put into the bike frame seems more like weighting and unweighting used in down hill heel locked skiing. You can also get front lift with the throttle twist but it is not so easy to add just the right amount when you are jerking up on handle bars. My motor bottom is sort of a skid plate but with enough front lift/bounce/climb and speed the next thing to hit will be the rear tire and by then you must be leaning way forward -- you may "ride over logs in such a fashion."

 

[robocam]

I had no idea that was what you were talking about. I must have missed your mentioning it. I understand your reasoning now. I never thought of using the motor as a skid plate. On a related note, I was just browsing bottom bracket-mounted bash guards. Things have been striking my chain guard, cracking it.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005WBFK8O?psc=1

Robocam,

come on, wake up, what I have pointed it out that when trailing riding it is the obstacles your motor/motor frame hits that bend a non-stiff motor frame...

 

[robocam]

I use the 148mm ISIS bottom bracket from Cyclone. The fit is very tight. My left crank arm is like 1mm away from the motor. I just installed a Race Face crank arm boot (to soften the blow if a rock is struck), and the boot rubs against the motor cover now.

I'm not understanding what you're saying. Why would a wider bottom bracket improve the chainline?

http://cyclone-tw.com/order-chainwheel.htm

The sprocket on the motor is adjustable. If you loosen the setscrew, you can slide the sprocket in and out a few millimeters. This is one of those kits that you just have to buy to try. I've had it for several months, and I'm still frequently changing things (chainrings, chainring spacers, bottom bracket spacers, etc.). I think I've taken the bottom bracket off 15 times in the last couple of months. This is also why I'm gravitating toward the BBSHD, but I don't know if I can live with a single 30T front chainring. I'm using a 24/38 (I recently added the 24 - before I had a single 32), and I feel that even the 38 is too small for when I'm on the road (going to an 11 in the casette). If I go with a 42 in the front, then I won't be able to pull my trailers (my 38 is not small enough to pull the trailers up a hill, and I have a 42 in the cassette). And I digress...

Hey guys, i was checking out some motors for new projects.
The Cyclone 3000w is pretty cheap, so why dont give it a try.
At my drawings i have a "Between-pedals-space" of about 175mm. I took that measurement from my LR-Kit Bike, with a 72mm BB + a ISIS-Crank set.

Now i found a drawing on the Cylclone-page that says:
whole Motor + 2cm shaft = 171mm

So that fit in, veeery tight, but chainline would be a problem.
The Chain coming from the motor would need a spocket something like 5cm away from my BB wich would create a big lever arm and all kind of spacing washers at the Crank-Plate...
Do you use wider BB-cartiges than the ISIS (wich is 148mm without the pedalarms) to get a good chainline?

Cheerio

 

[robocam]

You hit 40 mph using the 30T chainring? Oh wait, you're at 74V. I'm afraid to run higher voltages. When I gun it, I can see my rear wheel shift to the right because of how high the chain tension is. Is there any way to setup the BBSHD with dual chainrings? My other concern with the BBSHD is the low-hanging motor. Has ground clearance ever been an issue off road?

How did the Cyclone break your cranks, chains and derailleurs?

With the Cyclone controller it is louder than the stock Bafang controller, but it sounds like a RC car.
I have a sinewave controller, just grabbed the programming cable on it so more testing to come.

I'm using the luna mighty mini 30T, incredible torque. Literally sliding all over the place on the dirt.

I hit 40mph on a long stretch of road, heat is minimal.

Not having a exposed secondary reduction is a god send, the Cyclone has so many issues, I broke everything from cranks, to derailers, chains, bent motor mounts, etc

 

[evolutiongts]

Im sure there is a way to setup BBSHD with dual chain rings. Would need some fabrication. I don't have any issues with clearance while off-road.

High voltage is not bad, I never had issues but I am very cautious.

The Cyclone crankset would bend, get derailed, chains would break there was just too many moving parts, and things break when I gun it from the high torque. I got several cyclone 3kw motors but they've been just sitting. I damaged my BB threads while installing the cyclone BB so I can't run the Cyclone 3kw until I get that fixed.

However, since the BBSHD doesn't require threads on the BB I can run that no problem, with the power I'm running at its unlikely I will going back to the Cyclone 3Kw as the BBSHD is now just as powerful.

 

[Alex07]

[quotethe Cyclone 3Kw as the BBSHD is now just as powerful.[/quote]

That's because your comparing the BBSHD running at its absolutely maximum limit vs the cyclone 3000w just chugging along at 3kw !

I have seen others on here run the cyclone 3000w at 6kw peak ! wheares the BBSHD is a 1kw rated motor 1.6kw peak, so at 3kw you are running it right on its limit before parts start failing.... i think it was Carl on here who swish cheezed the gears at 3kw with an external controller

And thats the problem with the integrated secondary stage, if you run it at the power it was designed for fine, but at the power you are running it you will damage the gears and because its integrated its a lot harder to repair or do anything to improve it outside if what it was designed.

Wheareas the cyclone as the 2nd stage is external you can put stronger chains gears etc, and hence the total power potential is a lot higher then the BBSHD.

 

[Alex07]

Postby Föppel » Sat Sep 17, 2016 5:55 am

Hey guys, i was checking out some motors for new projects.
The Cyclone 3000w is pretty cheap, so why dont give it a try.

Hey Foppel how come you are changing from the LR small block to the cyclone 3000w ? what is the size difference of the LR small block vs the cyclone 3000w? are the same motors or same power potential ?

 

[evolutiongts]

[quotethe Cyclone 3Kw as the BBSHD is now just as powerful.

That's because your comparing the BBSHD running at its absolutely maximum limit vs the cyclone 3000w just chugging along at 3kw !

I have seen others on here run the cyclone 3000w at 6kw peak ! wheares the BBSHD is a 1kw rated motor 1.6kw peak, so at 3kw you are running it right on its limit before parts start failing.... i think it was Carl on here who swish cheezed the gears at 3kw with an external controller

And thats the problem with the integrated secondary stage, if you run it at the power it was designed for fine, but at the power you are running it you will damage the gears and because its integrated its a lot harder to repair or do anything to improve it outside if what it was designed.

Wheareas the cyclone as the 2nd stage is external you can put stronger chains gears etc, and hence the total power potential is a lot higher then the BBSHD.[/quote]

I'm getting very minimal heat on the BBSHD, and I pulled off the motor's cover gears look fine.

Its no hotter than the Cyclone 3k I was running.

BBSHD is overbuilt.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Im sure there is a way to setup BBSHD with dual chain rings

Mechanically, its a piece of cake. The problem would be getting the chainline right. Most BBSHD owners seem to be happiest with the deeply inset Eclipse sprocket (depending on BB width and rear hub style).

If you use a 130-BCD or 104-BCD spider, then the inboard chainring would have a wide chainline, with the outboard chainring being even farther away from the center.

 

[robocam]

I'd love to hear how your BBSHD does long term at 3000 watts. Are the gears made of plastic, and are they replaceable? I wonder if the BBSHD has its own set of issues. I saw something about a clutch replacement? Is that the equivalent of the crankset freewheel?

I'm getting very minimal heat on the BBSHD, and I pulled off the motor's cover gears look fine.

Its no hotter than the Cyclone 3k I was running.

BBSHD is overbuilt.

 

[evolutiongts]

I'd love to hear how your BBSHD does long term at 3000 watts. Are the gears made of plastic, and are they replaceable? I wonder if the BBSHD has its own set of issues. I saw something about a clutch replacement? Is that the equivalent of the crankset freewheel?

I'm getting very minimal heat on the BBSHD, and I pulled off the motor's cover gears look fine.

Its no hotter than the Cyclone 3k I was running.

BBSHD is overbuilt.

The BBSHD has its own internal clutch, its made of metal easy to replace.

Most of the gears inside the BBSHD are steel, but there is one nylon gear I pulled it out today and no wear.

 

[evolutiongts]

Had a customer come in and I gave him a demo on my 72V BBSHD.

He has a cyclone 3kw

He said I'm accelerating out of a corner really well, he can only glide into the turns because the motor / motor mounts flexes too much and then derails the chain. The BBSHD has a much better mounting system.

 

[robocam]

Was he running the stock mount?

Had a customer come in and I gave him a demo on my 72V BBSHD.

He has a cyclone 3kw

He said I'm accelerating out of a corner really well, he can only glide into the turns because the motor / motor mounts flexes too much and then derails the chain. The BBSHD has a much better mounting system.

 

[evolutiongts]

Was he running the stock mount?

Had a customer come in and I gave him a demo on my 72V BBSHD.

He has a cyclone 3kw

He said I'm accelerating out of a corner really well, he can only glide into the turns because the motor / motor mounts flexes too much and then derails the chain. The BBSHD has a much better mounting system.

Ya, he just picked up upgraded mounts from me

 

[Föppel]

Hey Foppel how come you are changing from the LR small block to the cyclone 3000w ? what is the size difference of the LR small block vs the cyclone 3000w? are the same motors or same power potential ?

im not changing. have done some much work on my LR-Bike, it will always have a place in my heart
No, im just up to new projects, want to compare different kind of Motors and find the best possible Middrife for me... like we all do.

LR-Kit is much fun, with all the extra work we did on those LR-Bikes, they still run fine at 3000W, generate a lot of torque and made us happy.

I think the power potentilal would be more ore less equal, if its possible to run the cyclone on 3000W.
The smallblock kit fits in with a 148mm ISIS. there is about 2cm space to the pedal on the left side, and on the right site about 5mm

Thanks for the infos, its what i guessed from my drawings

'im not understanding what you're saying. Why would a wider bottom bracket improve the chainline?

well, if i take a BB-Axle that is longer (at least on the right side), i would have more space to place the driven Sprocket on the Crank, in line with the Motor-Sproket.
But as i read, thats not really a problem

This is also why I'm gravitating toward the BBSHD, but I don't know if I can live with a single 30T front chainring

im just back from a ride with a friend, he buyed a LMX from Adam, i was riding the BBSHD this time again, because its quite fun on a relatively light freeride bike.
can understand your doubt with the Power of the BBSHD. have mine at 1500W-Max, all standard, and its just a bit to less powerful in many situations.
so i guess for your purpose (pulling trailers), it would also be at his maximum.

However, since the BBSHD doesn't require threads on the BB I can run that no problem, with the power I'm running at its unlikely I will going back to the Cyclone 3Kw as the BBSHD is now just as powerful.

Very cool! like i wrote, i would also like to have more power on my BBSHD
I hope for you, that it will work for long, but have my doubts. My BBSHD gets really hot when doing hills only by throttle. Also, when my Motor gets near its topspeed, it makes some strange noise and i can feel a bit vibration on the pedals, coming from motor. Had the same on my 20 Amp Bafang-kit... so i guess thats normal

here a short Video of the last Ride with the BBSHD, you will notice the pedal-input
[youtube]A0tj_Alvcb8[/youtube]


cheerio

 

[evolutiongts]

I'm running a 30T front sprocket so I geared it down. The motor doesn't even get hot any more and I can climb very steep hills without pedalling.

 

[Apex]

So I have been planning on building a battery pack for this kit from a big supply of laptop batteries.
Even though I have enough 18650 cells in good shape to produce a 48v 20ah pack it would seem the 1.5c discharge rate is going to prevent me from using them for this build.

Therefore, I am in the market for a prebuilt pack for the kit. My budget is around 500/600 USD, and I would prefer the 18650 packs over a lipo pack.
My commute is less than 10 miles round trip, mostly flat with the exception of one 5% grade hill for about 1/8th mile. Range isn't as big a consideration as reliability and long term use.
I would prefer purchasing from a respected supplier, such as Luna, as I don't feel like rolling the dice on ebay or such.
Please post any reccomendations. If I have to go a bit out of my budget to get a solid 48v-52v pack/charger, so be it.

 

[tomjasz]

Therefore, I am in the market for a prebuilt pack for the kit. My budget is around 500/600 USD, and I would prefer the 18650 packs over a lipo pack.
If I have to go a bit out of my budget to get a solid 48v-52v pack/charger, so be it.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2016Hot-Powerul-48V-17-5AH-e_60532946565.html

Lots of good results, and can be followed up on Facebook ES, Rechie Xiao. Dozens of successful sales and builds.
The link isn't specifically the battery pack you want but talk to them. Reliable and responsive.

 

[gman1971]

Im sure there is a way to setup BBSHD with dual chain rings. Would need some fabrication. I don't have any issues with clearance while off-road.

High voltage is not bad, I never had issues but I am very cautious.

The Cyclone crankset would bend, get derailed, chains would break there was just too many moving parts, and things break when I gun it from the high torque. I got several cyclone 3kw motors but they've been just sitting. I damaged my BB threads while installing the cyclone BB so I can't run the Cyclone 3kw until I get that fixed.

However, since the BBSHD doesn't require threads on the BB I can run that no problem, with the power I'm running at its unlikely I will going back to the Cyclone 3Kw as the BBSHD is now just as powerful.

Says the guy who gave up on the C3000W and went with a frocking hub on his trike b/c he couldn't figure it out... why is anyone here talking trash of the C3000W with a BBSHD on the C3000W thread?

Evolution, let me refresh your memory here for a second: I've been running a C3000W kit on a 123 lbs trike as a daily commuter, with a controller shunt modded to allow max amps before cutting out (that is ~90A, anything above that the controller shuts off) basically 6.5 kW peaks, for almost 3000 miles, rain or shine; including a daily dose of 2-2.5 kW steady climbs @ 25-30 mph up 10% grade hills around Madison WI; heck I've done a few sustained 6 mile cruises at 50 mph at 3.2 kW too, taken it off road, done all kinds of crazy stuff with it, including donuts, a few 60+ mph runs @ 5.2+ kW and demolished a few 125cc scooters along the way. And NO issues to date, nothing has bent, nothing has derailled, nothing has failed or snapped like you claim; and my 10-speed chain is just a hair over the 0.5% stretch mark after almost 3000 miles. Just because YOU FAILED to actually get any decent use out of it doesn't mean you have to put it down with a frocking BBSHD, be it on a flux capaciotor or on frocking 72V.

So if you want to compare your modded BBSHD to a C3000W, then lets compare it against an ALSO modded C3000W... and lets see who wins. Oh, and I will love to see you getting 3000 miles out of a 10-speed chain running a 29 mph average speed on the BBSHD, oh, and while getting a 29.4 Wh /mile too, without touching the pedals and climbing up a few 10% grade hills. You sound like the guy with a cheap ass Lancer EVO uber-modded to put out 525 at the wheels and likes to race everyone and prove how awesome he is... and is eager to roll up against a stock Lamborghini Huracan at a traffic light to prove how long his dung really is... sure. But if you want to race your modded turdbox, then pick another modded car to go along... but then chances are that measly 525 hp these days won't get you winning against anything worth its salt anymore... and definitively not modded.

I have 3 of those C3000W kits running @ power ratings ranging from 2.2 kW to 6.5 kW, none has failed yet. When you rack 450+ miles a month @ 30 mph you get to see the problems really fast... and I doubt you can get any kind of reliability on a BBSHD running it at 3 kW in a sustained manner for any continuous period of time, no matter what voltage you run it at... maybe for a daily fix-me-upper, sure, but the sound of having to repair my trike daily doesn't sound very appealing to me.

G.

 

[robocam]

If you already have the cells, why not just try them first? I really don't think you'll have any issues with them. 1.5 x 26 = 39 amps, so your battery should have no problem at all. Why are you concerned?

10 miles? Any battery would do. Here's my first choice. You're not saving anything by going with 48V, so might as well go 52.

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-samsung-inr18650-25r-10-ah-high-power/

And then this one.

http://lunacycle.com/batteries/packs/52v/52v-pansonic-pf-11-5ah-performance-pack/

So I have been planning on building a battery pack for this kit from a big supply of laptop batteries.
Even though I have enough 18650 cells in good shape to produce a 48v 20ah pack it would seem the 1.5c discharge rate is going to prevent me from using them for this build.

Therefore, I am in the market for a prebuilt pack for the kit. My budget is around 500/600 USD, and I would prefer the 18650 packs over a lipo pack.
My commute is less than 10 miles round trip, mostly flat with the exception of one 5% grade hill for about 1/8th mile. Range isn't as big a consideration as reliability and long term use.
I would prefer purchasing from a respected supplier, such as Luna, as I don't feel like rolling the dice on ebay or such.
Please post any reccomendations. If I have to go a bit out of my budget to get a solid 48v-52v pack/charger, so be it.

 

[Apex]

If you already have the cells, why not just try them first? I really don't think you'll have any issues with them. 1.5 x 26 = 39 amps, so your battery should have no problem at all. Why are you concerned?

39 amps in a perfect world. Some sanyo, some sony, some panasonic, some lg, some samsung, some 2200mah, some 2600mah, some 1.5c, some 2c.
It was going to be a frankenstein pack for sure. A good portion have lost some capacity but I'm pulling out any below 2000mah and will group my series subgroups to obtain proper balance characteristics. My concern is that powering this kit with a pack of old mismatched cells at redline would result in a very short lifespan. To continue down this path will also require me to purchase a spotwelder and other supplies requiring about an additional $300 investment. For these reasons I'm leaning towards spending a couple hundred more for a new pack with much better capabilities.
As I stated, I'm a newb on the electric side of this hobby, so I may be wrong in my assumptions. I dont want to build a pack that wont survive, and I certainly don't want to invest in a new pack that won't fit the bill.
That is why I am in here asking advice from those that own this kit, and I appreciate the responses.
I was looking at the 52v 14ah triangle pack with the ga cells, but I'm a big fan of overcapacity, more headroom means less stress on the pack.
I'm aware that mount flex becomes an issue at these power levels. I like your solution and may incorporate something similar to prevent flex. I operate laser cutters as part of my occupation, so hopefully I can create a mounting system improvement for damn near free.

 

[robocam]

I see. If you're going to have to spend another $300, it might not be a good idea. But just FYI, here is a log that may be of interest. You're probably not going to be at 40 amps continuously for long.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=350#p1152029

But buying a new pack from Luna is probably the best thing to do. I went with the 14S8P 25r pack. It is definitely overkill for me. During the last few trail rides, I've been using around 3-5 Ah. I'm thinking about getting their mighty mini 30q pack so that I can fit it in the triangle.

That GA triangle you were looking at is out of stock. Did you buy their last one? =)

39 amps in a perfect world. Some sanyo, some sony, some panasonic, some lg, some samsung, some 2200mah, some 2600mah, some 1.5c, some 2c.
It was going to be a frankenstein pack for sure. A good portion have lost some capacity but I'm pulling out any below 2000mah and will group my series subgroups to obtain proper balance characteristics. My concern is that powering this kit with a pack of old mismatched cells at redline would result in a very short lifespan. To continue down this path will also require me to purchase a spotwelder and other supplies requiring about an additional $300 investment. For these reasons I'm leaning towards spending a couple hundred more for a new pack with much better capabilities.
As I stated, I'm a newb on the electric side of this hobby, so I may be wrong in my assumptions. I dont want to build a pack that wont survive, and I certainly don't want to invest in a new pack that won't fit the bill.
That is why I am in here asking advice from those that own this kit, and I appreciate the responses.
I was looking at the 52v 14ah triangle pack with the ga cells, but I'm a big fan of overcapacity, more headroom means less stress on the pack.
I'm aware that mount flex at thsee power levels. I like your solution and may incorporate something similar to prevent flex. I operate laser cutters as part of my occupation, so hopefully I can create a mounting system improvement for damn near free.

 

[robocam]

It looks like you're right. I think it's this motor.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=170&osCsid=qgt4vj3sna0psapv96v4grkgj3

If so, it has a 1:9.55 reduction with steel gears (noisy!).
The output shaft spins at 450 rpm at 48V compared to 600 rpm at 48V for the Cyclone 3000. Seems like a better motor for those that want to pedal along since it doesn't spin as fast.

That new mini-cyclone looks like the original Cyclone kits with the motors made by Headline. I think it's the same ones used by Kranked Bikes and AFT. If so, the cases are aluminum and you can get optional heat sinks that fit around it with a big hose clamp. That standard controller would peak around 40 amps so you would peak around 2000 watts IIRC. The reduction gears are metal so it sounds like a muffled cordless drill. It's a pretty reliable unit, but loud, at least for my standards. I also seem to remember the reduction being 1:9.3. Given the choice, I would rather go with the Cyclone 3000. It's cheaper and can handle more watts, but it is bigger.

 

[ChoppedMinx]

Hi everyone.
Hope this is the right place to post my query, as this is my first post.
I have built a custom cruiser bike earlier this year, and now feel the 'need' to put some electric power into it
My question regarding the Cyclone 3000W mid drive motor -
Would there be any issues mounting the motor behind the BB? so 'upside down'? I'll obviously make custom mounts etc.
I have been looking at various builds using this motor and I think there will be sufficient room.
I'm not sure how to add pics, so i have added 2 links, hopefully they will be visible
Any comments or advice would be gratefully received
Nick

 

[rovieng]

There's something wrong with my setup. I haven't used my Cyclone since May, and when I tried to run it, the motor would not turn. It would just make a faint noise and stop. The motor and controller were warm (this doesn't normally happen when the bike is just sitting there). I initially suspected the controller because when I tried my GNG's controller, the Cyclone would turn, but I just tested the Cyclone's controller with my GNG mid drive, and the GNG worked perfectly. I tried the GNG controller on the Cyclone, and now it doesn't turn anymore.

It seems that there is something wrong with the circuitry inside the motor. The hall wires are all securely connected. I haven't made any changes to the hall wiring or battery. I've only used it with a 52V battery and the stock controller. It was working fine in May, a couple months ago. It has been stored in my garage.

[strike]Are there any replaceable parts in the motor? Is there anything I should look for when opening up the motor? I guess I'll have to buy a replacement motor.[/strike]
Just got a reply from Paco that the hall sensors are replaceable, so I will be testing those later today.

Hi, I'm new here and have the same problem with my cyclone setup (about 10 miles or so). I have that same "faint noise and stop" coming from my Cyclone 3000 motor. Have you figured out what is wrong with the motor? My cyclone 3000 is mounted to a cargo bike with a 74 V battery. Luna controller, motor and battery. It happened once before, but when I lightly wiggled the wire coming out of the motor, the cyclone turned the next time I used it. Now I try that trick again and nothing happens. Could something be disconnected or un-soldered inside the motor? Is their strain relief on that thick black wire coming out of the motor?