new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?
- Thread starter emaayan
- Start date
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Robo et al,
Here is the Specialized Big Hit somewhat done:
I acquired the Zenn all electric car [in the background of the above photo] for an outright trade of one of my hub bikes. The 2007 Zenn had only 1152 miles -- It is like brand new but will need 6 110ah 12volt AGM batteries when cold weather sets it. I will likely be much warmer than ex member? Gman1971 while driving the Zenn than he will be on the trike in Wisconsin.
I did make an inner annular chain guard centered about the BB axle. The bike uses the SBP OEM 44T chainring as right sided guard and the lift pins were ground off it. There is no seat tube for attaching a normal clamping front derailleur so I have only one narrow wide 38T chainring. I started with a 3 chainring ISIS crank. Gears are: 14 44 38 36-11.
Sather, what a close fit between the crank and the motor on the left side.
As for stiffening the frame I went with my tried and true 4 gear clamps surrounding the motor and the 2 straight thru 1/4" L9 Allen bolts to hold the motor to the frame as opposed to the Dingus McGee stiffening method. This method has been successful on my Specialized hardtail Pro which I have used for hill climbs. I would not even consider the Gman washer job which works on kiddy trikes but replaced the threaded stand offs with steel spacers about 1" long.
Pablo: I had no where to attach the Jump Stop you sent with the Cyclone kit. Thanks, I still will try to use the Jump Stop on a bike with a seat tube that attaches to the BB and has a front derailleur attaching mounts.
Here is the Specialized Big Hit somewhat done:
I acquired the Zenn all electric car [in the background of the above photo] for an outright trade of one of my hub bikes. The 2007 Zenn had only 1152 miles -- It is like brand new but will need 6 110ah 12volt AGM batteries when cold weather sets it. I will likely be much warmer than ex member? Gman1971 while driving the Zenn than he will be on the trike in Wisconsin.
I did make an inner annular chain guard centered about the BB axle. The bike uses the SBP OEM 44T chainring as right sided guard and the lift pins were ground off it. There is no seat tube for attaching a normal clamping front derailleur so I have only one narrow wide 38T chainring. I started with a 3 chainring ISIS crank. Gears are: 14 44 38 36-11.
Sather, what a close fit between the crank and the motor on the left side.
As for stiffening the frame I went with my tried and true 4 gear clamps surrounding the motor and the 2 straight thru 1/4" L9 Allen bolts to hold the motor to the frame as opposed to the Dingus McGee stiffening method. This method has been successful on my Specialized hardtail Pro which I have used for hill climbs. I would not even consider the Gman washer job which works on kiddy trikes but replaced the threaded stand offs with steel spacers about 1" long.
Pablo: I had no where to attach the Jump Stop you sent with the Cyclone kit. Thanks, I still will try to use the Jump Stop on a bike with a seat tube that attaches to the BB and has a front derailleur attaching mounts.
Attachments
elementary
10 W
DingusMcGee
100 kW
I have had 2 bikes with C-3000's motors for some time.
The Specialized FSR bike motor frame has for frame stiffening a center piece tubular "shear wall", "Z" bar stock on the left side of the motor and 1/4" through bolts[the black spaces were drilled from 6mm to 1/4"] with solid annular spacers, not washers replacing the 2 threaded tubes.
The Specialized Pro Hardtail has only gear clamps -- in 4 locations. Both methods for frame stiffening have had about 10 months of testing and are working quite well. The Specialized Big Hit[ebay frame suggested by Robo] has for motor frame stiffening gear clamps in 4 locations passing over the thru bolts and spacer that replaces the threaded standoff which are sold annular sections -- pipes.
All 3 bikes use 72v nominal batteries and the Cyclone OEM controller. I especially like the anchoring of the long gear clamp which anchors around the left side of the BB -- the location adds plenty of counter force/stiffness to tangential chain forces -- Lap it up Gman1971. Go look at your cement block caricature of this implementation and ask yourself, "What do I know?" Maybe you can get Spinning Magnets to help defend your case? It all seems that answering would be like talking to/about a block head?
Using the 4 clamp locations method works fine and it only takes a 5/16" nut driver to tighten them. I have no hang ups with the looks and use of cheer clamps.
juanfeli
100 W
Nice motor mounts and good looking bikes. I'd paint black the chain guard as well.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
black? Yuk, maybe Pink!
DingusMcGee
100 kW
What? And then compete with AFT?
Alex07 says:
Now for you ceramic bearing folks:
The other day I needed [wanted]some bearing-ed derailleur swing arm pulleys for the motor chain tension-er. The Shimano's were 2 for $15 [sealed bearings] and the SRAM ceramic bearing pulley was one for $74.00. You ceramic bearing nuts could notify AFT to get this part on their motor/frame kit so it would be optimized for long life and reliability. I'd rather spend the $59 savings on drive train parts as the AFT kit does little or any to change how these items wear.
My desire would be to leave the Luna and Sick Bike Part kits at $345 as I have just enough brilliance to add 4 gear clamps and 2 - L9 thru bolts with added spacers to stiffen the frame quite adequately -- except maybe for the amps and controllers evolutiongist used to bend his Stock frame?
It would be smart of you AFT folks to make an AFT site here on Endless to extol AFT's great benefits so novices without DIY skills could make the right choices.
I've been working on some freewheel protection. I went for the midrange sbp freewheel and noticed that being thicker than stock, would allow a cover to be attached. Maybe this will help keep it clean and prolong it's life. The cranks don't sit as flush with this freewheel so I was able to get one on the front side also. The threads are not as deep in this freewheel compared to the standard kit one. It was an easy design. The other part is a sleeve to cover the opposite side at the bottom bracket and crank so they match. I went for more pictures for a better explanation. Maybe some cheap protection for some of the expensive parts that wear.
Rob
Rob
Attachments
elementary
I tried to pm you but not possible.
Keep an eye on the 6mm threaded sleeve. It will bend if too much power is put through the c-3000. Better to use 1/4" grade 8 through bolts with sold spacers (not washers). Robocam side plates are even better. Dingus center brace even better, but maybe overkill.
I tried to pm you but not possible.
Keep an eye on the 6mm threaded sleeve. It will bend if too much power is put through the c-3000. Better to use 1/4" grade 8 through bolts with sold spacers (not washers). Robocam side plates are even better. Dingus center brace even better, but maybe overkill.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Skaiwerd,
Tell us how you made these covers? 3-D printing? And after a muddy ride is there any residue inside the covers? Otherwise they may extent the life of these BB freewheels etc.
Tell us how you made these covers? 3-D printing? And after a muddy ride is there any residue inside the covers? Otherwise they may extent the life of these BB freewheels etc.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
elementary,
I like your custom motor bracket -- the partial adapter. Are those true Fat tire bikes --- meaning tires greater than or equal to 4" wide? My Specialized Big Hit frame may just accommodates a 3" Surly tire @ $95.00. Surly makes both the bulbous snow tire and a more flat threaded tire in the 3" wide. My rims are 33 mm which work fine for the Kenda 2.7" which is a little stiff/hard for the best of traction on snow.
I like your custom motor bracket -- the partial adapter. Are those true Fat tire bikes --- meaning tires greater than or equal to 4" wide? My Specialized Big Hit frame may just accommodates a 3" Surly tire @ $95.00. Surly makes both the bulbous snow tire and a more flat threaded tire in the 3" wide. My rims are 33 mm which work fine for the Kenda 2.7" which is a little stiff/hard for the best of traction on snow.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
The kick stand can be bolted to the left side of the motor frame when the chain stays are too wide for a standard kickstand.
The Big Hit is now somewhat finished other than possibly building custom battery packs:
For the fixed battery pack(s) I am considering 2 triangle packs on each side of the frame extending beyond the small triangle. The 18650 cells would lie flat on the triangle shape. Area calculations at 67% fit/(area usage) would yield about 80 cells per side -- more than enough battery energy to make for a long tiring ride on rough terrain.
There is also some possibilities to make a wider pack up from the top of the motor and extending in a narrow width along the bottom side of the down tube. The actual usable space under the down tube is far less than appears as the front tire needs about 5 inches of free space for its trajectory when loading the front shocks.
The Big Hit is now somewhat finished other than possibly building custom battery packs:
For the fixed battery pack(s) I am considering 2 triangle packs on each side of the frame extending beyond the small triangle. The 18650 cells would lie flat on the triangle shape. Area calculations at 67% fit/(area usage) would yield about 80 cells per side -- more than enough battery energy to make for a long tiring ride on rough terrain.
There is also some possibilities to make a wider pack up from the top of the motor and extending in a narrow width along the bottom side of the down tube. The actual usable space under the down tube is far less than appears as the front tire needs about 5 inches of free space for its trajectory when loading the front shocks.
DingusMcgee
I did realize I forgot to mention I used typical 3d printing to produce the freewheel covers. Viacad was the software I used, like a high end google sketch up, to do the cad work, only $99 though. The covers are 2mm in wall thickness, great to be able to do this nowadays. Just out of curiosity I was thinking of uploading the one part file to shapeways to see what metal would cost, bet it's over $100.
Rob
I did realize I forgot to mention I used typical 3d printing to produce the freewheel covers. Viacad was the software I used, like a high end google sketch up, to do the cad work, only $99 though. The covers are 2mm in wall thickness, great to be able to do this nowadays. Just out of curiosity I was thinking of uploading the one part file to shapeways to see what metal would cost, bet it's over $100.
Rob
juanfeli
100 W
I'm Wandering what makes your build different than the others? I ask as I don't remember somebody else having problems with that freewheel.
Can I ask about your gear ratios and if you have upgraded your motor brackets?
I read some of your post and is my understanding that you use hard tails with Fat tires. So frame flex couldn't be the problem and rolling resistance maybe. I doubt it.
Can I ask about your gear ratios and if you have upgraded your motor brackets?
I read some of your post and is my understanding that you use hard tails with Fat tires. So frame flex couldn't be the problem and rolling resistance maybe. I doubt it.
I ride a fat bike (8-10psi) on steep trails and I weigh over 200 lbs. I try to ride every day, weather permitting. I have talked to SBP and they acknowledge that the problem exists. I know Dingus and Gman both have lost freewheels.
I'm running 14t to 44 tooth motor. 44 and 32 tooth chainrings to 11 to 34 cogs. My son and I both run Cyclone 3000s and both bent the motor mounts at the 6mm threaded sleeve. I did one Robocam mount and one Dingus mount. There are pictures of both my mounts on page 55 of this thread.
I'm running 14t to 44 tooth motor. 44 and 32 tooth chainrings to 11 to 34 cogs. My son and I both run Cyclone 3000s and both bent the motor mounts at the 6mm threaded sleeve. I did one Robocam mount and one Dingus mount. There are pictures of both my mounts on page 55 of this thread.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Sather,
Let's not talk motor frame shifting and freewheel failures as if one of these events happening always, soon/ immediately leads to / or causes the other?
I am of the feeling that a bike with rear suspension will lessen the effects of drive train shock loading. It seems the rear freewheel pawls are often a weak link of the bicycle drive train when it is subject to shock loading and motor power surges.
The threaded coupling sleeve is definitely one of the OEM frame components that contributes to easy frame shifting under loads and especially shock loading when unrestrained. But the Specialized Hardtail Pro of mine still has those 2 pieces in use. These 2 threaded sleeves are restrained with nearby gear clamps. I am of the impression and experience that 4 well positioned gear clamps, even without the thur bolts can stabilize the motor frame enough that one can take on some difficult trail events that cause drive train shock loading without bending the frame or throwing a chain.
But on my latest bike build I have added thru bolts -- it is very cheap redundancy.
But such frame stabilization will in no way lessen the likely hood of freewheel pawl failure when shock loading the rear wheel. I do less hill climbing attempts now that I know such riding as when you have a rear wheel in the air spinning rapidly and next it gets sudden ground contact over-stresses ordinary Shimano carriers.
I did tear the Gates belt of my LR SB hardtail Fatbike on the second attempt of a difficult hill. Rear suspension softens abrupt drive train loading and hardtails do not give a little chain slack under bouncing activity.
Let's not talk motor frame shifting and freewheel failures as if one of these events happening always, soon/ immediately leads to / or causes the other?
I am of the feeling that a bike with rear suspension will lessen the effects of drive train shock loading. It seems the rear freewheel pawls are often a weak link of the bicycle drive train when it is subject to shock loading and motor power surges.
The threaded coupling sleeve is definitely one of the OEM frame components that contributes to easy frame shifting under loads and especially shock loading when unrestrained. But the Specialized Hardtail Pro of mine still has those 2 pieces in use. These 2 threaded sleeves are restrained with nearby gear clamps. I am of the impression and experience that 4 well positioned gear clamps, even without the thur bolts can stabilize the motor frame enough that one can take on some difficult trail events that cause drive train shock loading without bending the frame or throwing a chain.
But on my latest bike build I have added thru bolts -- it is very cheap redundancy.
But such frame stabilization will in no way lessen the likely hood of freewheel pawl failure when shock loading the rear wheel. I do less hill climbing attempts now that I know such riding as when you have a rear wheel in the air spinning rapidly and next it gets sudden ground contact over-stresses ordinary Shimano carriers.
I did tear the Gates belt of my LR SB hardtail Fatbike on the second attempt of a difficult hill. Rear suspension softens abrupt drive train loading and hardtails do not give a little chain slack under bouncing activity.
DingusMcGee
100 kW
DingusMcGee
100 kW
Yes, the thick sleeves(1/4" bore x 1/2" OD x 1" Length) are out of Ace Hardware's Hillman Fasteners boxes.
After I lost my third SBP "heavy duty" 14 tooth freewheel I decided to just run the frozen 14t freewheel as a straight sprocket. It works fine since my 14t-44t crank speed is 214 rpms at 52 volts. Way faster than my legs can spin. If my battery goes dead, it is about a 30 second job to remove the motor drive chain to allow me to pedal home under my own power.
Update: After riding the frozen freewheel for a day, it came back to life. Now I hope it doesn't fail to latch and leave me stranded like the second freewheel did.
Update: After riding the frozen freewheel for a day, it came back to life. Now I hope it doesn't fail to latch and leave me stranded like the second freewheel did.
