new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[robocam]

I hope he came up with something good because when I contacted him a few months ago, these were the new mounts.

I spoke to Paco at Cyclone last week regarding ordering a new Cyclone 3000w kit, and following some discussions on email, he confirmed Cyclone have a new, strengthened motor mount and BB system coming in the New Year for this motor. I have asked him for more details, timing and pricing but as yet have not received a response. Looks like the days of Tangentenial Motor Mounts, Washer Jobs,and the like may be a thing of the past, come 2017..! Deep Joy..!!

 

[DingusMcGee]

So the thinner motor sheet is held to the motor with one gear clamps that wraps around the motor and around the 2 spacers that are bolted to the thinner motor sheet/frame? The setup does contribute constraint in the direction opposing tangential chain loading on the motor chain freewheel. This one gear clamp addition is a low redundancy variety of the 4 gear clamp setup I have used on my hardtail ebike setup for almost a year and now use on the new Big Hit. Strategically placed gear clamps will do the job. And the floppy hinge stand-off is gone.

This SBP single clamp mount location is where I placed the included clamp on my first kit -- the placement is obvious over the use of it for a suspension anchor to the down tube. I then did some calculations from the 50% grade hill climb [max torque occurs at about zero speed] and calculated the strength of a single gear clamp in hoop strength. A single gear clamp of "ordinary thickness" does not have much of a safety factor to the motor chain loadings at their highest torque. Hence the motor frame/sheet independent gear clamp that I added that wraps around the BB shell and motor shell contributes to the other gear clamp's opposition to make a safety factor of more than 2 at the highest torque loadings -- other than when potentially added drive train shock loadings occur.

 

[robocam]

While electric motorcycles are nice, they're not my cup of tea. Right now I'm trying to mountain bike with a little assistance, especially on the climbs. BTW, check this out. It's a completely self-contained hub motor w/battery that turns your bike into something like a Prius.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hle3q_NfoUs

I've chosen the Horst link (Specialized's FSR or even Trek's ABP) rear suspension because I think it's one of the best designs. In this design, rear braking forces cannot affect the rear suspension (no brake squat - does any other design offer this advantage?). I believe it also isn't as sensitive to having a precisely set sag. I've read that some other designs are more sensitive to a properly set sag. Some may report advantages of once design over another, but at what sacrifices? The implementation of the design is very important as well. If the Horst link wasn't available, I'd probably be riding a single pivot design. I mean, the Horst link is a single pivot design, and Specialized has done quite well with it. Many other designs seem like marketing mumbo jumbo to me because they make claims that seem to defy the laws of physics but I'm willing to try them if I have to.

You can bunny hop a motorcycle =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJx31zMSBro

I think the Cyclone 7500-equipped bike could exceed those performance levels. Have you seen this guy's videos? He can go faster than 60 mph on that death trap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KemJO_B2FGE

This 11 min video may be off-thread:

http://plugbike.com/2011/11/17/electric-motion-em-5-7/

[my apologies]but it covers some trials riding of a 95kg electric motor cycle. The Electric Motion Cycle has the looks of something ES member recumpence has build but with without petals. We may have to use something other than the C-3000 motor or the LRSB to get this good of a low speed high torque response as we see here. I could not find out what motor they use.

Some observation: Excellent riders performing in their playground. Their problems have plenty of real estate to set up/maneuver for the head on problem compared to the rocky constrained trails of WY that I try to onsight. These enduro bikes may measure out to a 53" wheel base yet I see that some vintage trials moto-bikes had a 41" wheel base which is what my C-3000 Specialized Pro Hardtail ebike has -- think maneuvering in a tight space? Well, these guys bounce their long bikes around when they need a different alignment angle -- where plenty of "flatish" real estate exists? Not on top of those square structures?

For retail Mtn Bike rear setups we do not see the likes of the enduro setup where distance from the BB to the rear axle is longer than about 17" nor do we see the rear spring hooked directly from the single stay to the frame. Believe me there is a reason for this Horst Bar/holobar modified rear suspension over what we see in the enduro design.

A popular discussion link on rear suspension:

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/horst-vs-dw-link-vs-vpp-vs-maestro-vs-single-pivot-vs-862728.html

And Robo our ebikes may weigh all of 25 kg so I suspect with practice you can get those builds of yours off the ground on both wheels at the same time -- a bunny hop if you will? Oh! and BTW did you find the noise these Electric Motion Cycles make too loud?

Would the Monster 7500 watt Cyclone Motor give us similar performance to these Electric Motion Cycles? One speed. Or could the C-3000 hold up to high amperage short bursts needed for these maneuvers? We know at 6.5 kw the c-3000 motor gives off 3kw in heat.

And for the seat recumpence says:

I like the idea of a bicycle seat if for no other reason than it makes the bike look more bicycle like and should reduce police stops. However, if you have ever ridden a dirt bike, there are times you want to slide up to the tank to rail around corners, or slide back on the seat at other times. That is not possible with a bike seat. Also, my riding style (on a dirt bike) is that I occasionally land off smaller jumps with some weight on the seat. You need a larger seat for that.

 

[DingusMcGee]

So rear suspension systems dampen the force of your input to do bunny hops.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Quite a talker in that youtube video narrating about Cyclone 7500. He can talk the talk but can he ....?

For the sake of kinematic analysis the the enduro suspension is a single 4-bar setup. The Specialized Horst setup is 2 interlinked 4-bar setups. Hence the compaction and only 17" between the BB center and the rear axle on mtn bikes.

I too find the Specialized suspension quite adequate and these long "bus like" enduro suspension methods will flounder on tight constrained trails.

 

[robocam]

This looks like a great frame for a Cyclone 7500 build =)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272484845019?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

...Would the Monster 7500 watt Cyclone Motor give us similar performance to these Electric Motion Cycles?...

 

[rovieng]

Hi, I was able to fix the problem and have been happily riding the bike for 3 months now. The hall sensor wires were pulled a little loose from the connector by me. Now everything works. Thanks!

Welcome! You can test the hall sensors by seeing if the green, blue, and yellow wires output voltage as you turn the motor shaft. Make sure the hall sensors are receiving power through the red and black wires. For example, leave the red and black wires hooked up to the controller, and then see if there is voltage between the blue and black wire at certain shaft positions and then test green and black and then yellow and black. All should read some voltage at some shaft position. If one is stuck on or stuck off, then you'll need a new board which you can order from Paco at http://www.cyclone-tw.com/ for $13 shipped.

You can also open the motor cover to see if there is a loose connection. You may want to test the continuity of the wires from the hall sensor board to the connector at the controller.

If you don't want to mess with the motor, you can order a replacement from Paco for $98.

You may also email Paco, and he can help you troubleshoot the problem. sales@cyclone-e-bikes.com

Hi, I'm new here and have the same problem with my cyclone setup (about 10 miles or so). I have that same "faint noise and stop" coming from my Cyclone 3000 motor. Have you figured out what is wrong with the motor? My cyclone 3000 is mounted to a cargo bike with a 74 V battery. Luna controller, motor and battery. It happened once before, but when I lightly wiggled the wire coming out of the motor, the cyclone turned the next time I used it. Now I try that trick again and nothing happens. Could something be disconnected or un-soldered inside the motor? Is their strain relief on that thick black wire coming out of the motor?

 

[sather]

I was pissed when my third SBP "heavy duty" 14t freewheel failed. Since it was locked solid, I decided to just run it that way since the Cyclone spins too fast to pedal along anyway. Bad idea. Yesterday, the locked up freewheel let loose completely leaving me stranded.

There is quite a bit of variation in the SBP adapters and Cyclone motor shaft diameters. I had to use emery cloth to get the new SBP freewheel to fit.

I notice that Cyclone-TW is calling their 13 tooth "heavy duty", but not either of their 14 tooth freewheels?? Gman says he has had better luck with the "dicta" 14 tooth over the SBP "heavy duty". Any other opinions?

 

[DingusMcGee]

Sather,

so far I have had two motor freewheel failures and both were the OEM motor freewheels. One of them locked up and the other [unwelded ring] flew apart on the road some 18 miles from home. After that I started adding some SBP freewheel oil to my motor freewheels in use. It seems the oil may be extending their life.

I have thought of going with a non freewheeling motor gear but haven't tried that yet.

I have 3 spare motor freewheel hub on hand. 2 of them are dull grey metal and one silver.

I also have an ACS crossfire 16T single speed rear hub freewheel. The adapters for the 3 motor freewheels I have are just a little smaller than the single speed rear freewheel thread diameter 1.375"-24, same as the thread diameter as on right side crank . Does anyone know of an adapter for use in mounting the ACS freewheel on the 20mm shaft of the motor? One could acquire such a threaded ACS body adapter by drilling out the square taper hole of the right crank arm to 20mm and adding some 4mm thread for an allen screw. And milling a groove for the keyway.


Other opinions? Try these:

I found the adapter:

20mm ID (.7874") x .9" wide Adaptor for freewheel Sprockets has two 6mm x 1.0 set screws & 6mm keyway. 1.37 x 24 TPI OD right hand threads

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1927

cost is $16.99 + set up of chainsrings w/wo freewheel

On this adapter you can mount 16T[White $$] freewheels and larger or simply of mount rear single speed chain rings[thread 1.375 x 42] 12T - ??T without a freewheel -- to fail.


They also sell a 3 prong adapter:

20mm ID x .9" wide, 3 Prong, 2 set screws, 6mm keyway, Freewheel Sprocket Adaptor, 3 prong chain rings and the necessary lock ring. The set up would likely have a shorter gear changing time than the tread on would have.

$18.49 adapter + $6.99 lock ring + chainrings [ it seems there no are 3 prong chain ring units with freewheel?]

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=2126

Either of these setups would be something different than that what Cyclone products offers.

There is one concerning bit of useful info whether to go without the freewheel mechanism on the motor or not. For whatever reason when actuating the ebrake signal [you may not be slowing the wheel down if you are not pulling hard enough] the motor locks when using the OEM controller. [useless Built in regen?] Under the conditions of this motor locking and a fixed motor cog you cannot spin the the petal crank arms forward [backward yes] as you may want for going thru some narrow passages with a hand lightly tugging on the brake handle[enought to send ebrake signal]. My choice is to go with a motor freewheel body.

 

[Skaiwerd]

16ah lipos on sale!
For you rc lipo users these are in stock and $48 off the normal price of $120 each, just $72 for now. It looks like hobby king is more on the ball these days. They did refund me for a dead cell battery of this type from last spring. I did it by online chat and supplying required photos of the battery and the charger screen. I did not have to send it back. I'd buy now as it seems like these are made in batches and are unavailable most of the time.

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/multistar-high-capacity-6s-16000mah-multi-rotor-lipo-pack.html

Please don't bother with the lipo hating, we've herd it all before.

Going from 13ah currently to 32ah should give me 60 miles I'd hope, but just a guess for now. How far or long do most of you guys ride?

 

[markz]

Great deal for 22.2V 16Ah LiPo.

$432usd ($570) for 65V 32Ah, I'd do LiPo again.

 

[Skaiwerd]

Update to mention shipping charges of the hobby king 6s lipo. To ship one to the USA, north east, NYC/southern New England is $30, but six ship for $65. Comes in just under $500 for 6 with shipping. It's shipped fed ex hazardous goods. No more getting around this.

 

[dirkdiggler]

Hobbyking has had much better deals in the past. Even right now the 4s 10ah are $37, I picked some up for $27 last year. The 6s have been that price before. Their sales are hit or miss though. The 4s 16ah were $50 in the U.S. warehouse. Shipping was $10 in the States.

 

[DingusMcGee]

There are a great deal of confusing options out there in the used seat market as to what even will work for making a seat adaption from name brand moto dirt bikes seats to your particular ebike. If you want to maximize comfort, peddle seldom and want to ride uphill terrain that you would have zero chance of making with just a pedal mtn bike then an enduro seat is likely the best seat choice even over the banana seat mount I described earlier in this thread on page 70. A low banana seat adaption is suited for trials riding -- little cushioning.

The terrain where a long enduro like seat is necessary is steep uphill riding of loose sedimentary material [ rock & sand or shale] on flat hillsides or troughs and gullies. The C-3000 at 72v 40 amps can in lower gears spin the rear wheel enough to mill up these hillside. Fatter tires are better but you do not need a fat tire bike to do this terrain just some beefy mid size knobby tires. With both tires often sliding laterally in sort of an out-of-control lean on this terrain your have to make foot pushing corrections to upright the bike. Needed corrections happen so frequently that you abandon the pedals and sit with splayed legs over the seat and with a body position forward enough to do a wheelie. Because you are going up steep terrain and over minor headwalls you tend to slide backwards on the seat. Your only connection to the ebike to get and keep your seat position is by pulling on the handle bars as having your leg near the ground is a must. A roadie or mtn bike seat leaves your crotch on the top tube and you back is jabbed by the seat tongue.


From fastguyparts store at eBay:

Hi, yes the height [ on a Kawasaki 250 KX enduro seat] is about the same on the standard KTM give or take, this seat is 29 1/2" long and the with at the in the middle of the seat is 7 3/4", all of the seats from 125cc and up are the same dimensions for each brand and model.

The KTM [low]seat from the SX-85 years 14, 14,15 is 26 1/2" long and 6" wide for an example of a shorter seats dimensions. A 29 1/2" seat will work on a bike with a top tube length of as short as 22" [from steer tube center to seat post center] and still give the pleasing 2/3 ratio of division for where the seat post locates. What sticks out on the back acts as fender but can take some body weight and recovers from deflection.





KTM makes 2 thicknesses for their enduro seats -- the Standard seat and the High seat. The high seat has more cushioning but you sit higher above the seat base. Most KTM seats are black as its the color that goes good with orange. Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki & Suzuki all have the options of a colorful seat.



About all the enduro seats have a steep up curved section on the end that abuts the gas tank. Seeing seats with this steep curvature may make you think they will leave a big gap on the front & look not so good --so they are deemed unsuitable. Not so, the seat frames/bases are made of plastic and will bend substantially on either end. The seat cover and cushion material will accept a bend of somewhat less curvature without puckering or deforming the plastic seat base.





Mounting Enduro Seats to the ebike: KTM seats are a little easier to mount than Kawasaki seats are but I tend to think any seat with a plastic base [regardless of the mount intended on the dirt bike] can be adapted & fastened [ultimately fitted] to a stable seat platform originating from the seat post.

Used seats in good condition [also rebuilt or re-manufactured] can be found on eBay starting at $25.00 + $20.00 shipping. There are plenty of non OEM after market seat makers:

Enduro Engineering, Seat Concepts, Fisher and SDG make after market seats and their prices begin around $150. All my seats are not new. Upholstery materials may be not as good as the OEM seat's material on some re-manufactured seats as there is a market for those wanting a nice looking low cost seat of little durability just before selling the moto bike.

In another post I will show 2 mounting methods used to mount the moto enduro seat on an ebike. The KTM high seat works great on sand trough riding but you may want a smaller seat. You can pedal with this setup.

 

[DingusMcGee]

There are several design objectives to consider when mounting a moto Enduro seat to a bike frame.

1. Utilize a seat post that telescopes into the seat tube [allows some seat height change]. Seat posts with a single bolt for seat angle articulation work better than the 2 bolt models for the adaption/support methods I show.

2. There are 3 planes of rotation that come into play much more with a 30" enduro seat than with a standard long nose 10" Mtn Bike Seat. We have to stop rotation of the seat post in the seat tube [maybe a seat post clamp is not enough?], stop lateral rolling around the top tube axis and reduce or restrict seat sag or rotations especially in front of the seat post.

3. Make the seat and support frame so they can be easily removed as one [dedicated] unit from the seat tube. Some setups may be require one additional fastener near the front to stabilize rotation or one hellishly tight seat clamp.

A typical moto enduro seat has 5 points/zones along its bottom for attachment and stabilization.

1. Near the tip of the front end is a semi open cylinder with hole in the bottom lid that accepts a bolt with washer to fasten the top to the frame.



2. Usually just in front of where the seat's flat profile steepens there is a tongue like projection, that on the seat's OEM frame, would allow the tongue to slip/wedge into a confining pocket. The tongues on the 2 Kawasaki enduro seats I have are off center enough that center mounting it will result in an offset section of seat in this vicinity and the tip of the seat will be off center.



3. The load carrying zone is a flattish zone under the middle of the seat which may have transverse ribs or keel like projections to concentrate the rider load. There may be no actual fastening means in this zone.



4. At about 80% of the distance from the tip will be some sort of mechanical fastener involving thread inserts or right angle stand offs.



5. Next to the end of the seat are a couple of tail end flat pads that with stops added under them will keep the tail from sagging when sitting that far back.



There are 2 methods of plate frame configuration for the enduro seat mount that are quite simple and stable as opposed to making 2 meshing shape profiles and achieving continuous support along the top tube and continuous support along the bottom of the seat. The seat base is strong enough that continuous support is not needed. If you can equip a 10" mtn bike seat as the mounting base to an enduro seat of this length and restrict seat rotations adequately you can skip the rest of this post.


The simplest mount is to have a distribution plate mounted on top of the seat post with some distant means for arresting unwanted seat rotations. A second method and likely more stable than the above mentioned one is to make a 4 point distribution plate involving the seat post and the top tube for anchors/stabilizers. In either case the seat post is firmly attached to the distribution plate including the seat angle adjusting hardware.



The steel rolled down nose base plate used above is a Masterlock 1500 winch portable ball hitch winch mount plate at about 5 3/4" wide x 9" long.



The wooden base plate shown above is made from a knot free piece of "Hobby" Oak 1/2" thick x 5 1/2" wide.

After choosing the base type and mounting the seat post the enduro seat is fastened to the base. Usually the seat tongue and the mechanical fastener are the points of attachment for the seat to the base. The tongue anchor & mechanical fasteners are tightened to pull the loading zone onto the base material. You may need to route-out some material for the seating of transverse keels.

Attaching the base plate [you choose] to the seat [you choose] can require some very specific hardware but I will show a few instances of how I did the fastening.







In the application below the tongue is not fastened to the plate but rests on the top tube and does prevent seat sag when loading there. To stop rotation about the seat tube a wide cable tie was fastened around the front end of the seat and the top tube. Tightening the cable tie pulled the front seat anchor onto the top tube.



Here is a glimpse of an almost finished Kawasaki 250EX enduro seat mounted to an edirtbike. The oak base needs trimmed corners and some flat black spray paint -- too cold now.




I have seen a Honda enduro seat mounted on the OEM plastic Honda enduro seat fairing attached to a gas powered mtnbike. The engine was Yamaha ha ha. Again with this means of attachment you will have to figure out how to attach an irregular surface to the bike contours.

The starting measurement is the distance from the top of your current seat to the BB axle [less 1/2" to 1" as the seat is somewhat widerthan a mtnbike seat] and along with knowing the thickness of your enduro seat you will have enough data to start working on the mounting platform and its location.

The standard seat post does not allow for much angle dipping from level towards the front but with shims you can create more dip in that direction.



It may seem mounting the enduro seat to a flat board will make it too flat, but you can add shims to elevate the seat and achieve the desired contour. Or if you have a seat with quite a bit of curvature it is often possible to pull it more flat without hurting the plastic base or puckering the upholstery material.

If you cannot make up your mind as to what enduro seat to get, the KTM Enduro high seat 530EX year 2009[rides the best] [others years may work fine & mount differently] is an easy mount if you use the Master Lock winch plate shown above. The Kawasaki Enduro seat rests on the oak plane readily and has less special ribs and keels to embed than the KTM Enduro has. Or the KTM SX-85 mini enduro seat years '13, '14, & '15 has got to be the easiest mount and still better than the vintage banana set.

 

[dfarning]

Is there any more information on the 2017 updates to to Cyclone 3000W mid-drive?

$350 seems a pretty good price. Paired with with four of the Multistar High Capacity 6S 16000mAh Multi-Rotor Lipo Pack for it looks like a good entrance point for someone to dip their toe into ebikes.

But if there is going to be a better mounting bracket coming out soon it seems wise to wait.

Edit: deleted off topic material to reduce noise

 

[DingusMcGee]

dfarning,

has anyone tried registering a high powered ebike as a moped?

Once the high powered "moped" is registered you will likely need a licence plate and have to have proof of liability -- think $$. I suppose if in some manner you are already breaking the law [possession of paraphernalia ?] then having a licence plate would make for one less reason for a police to stop a slow? unregistered motor vehicle and thus registration gives you some assurance of no sudden search, seizure & arrest?

If you are speeding all the time move to some road with a higher speed limit?

 

[sather]

dfarning:
It looks like the new motor mount pictured in Robocams post (top of page 73 above) will be sufficient. The question is how much old stock each vendor has. I would specify that you want the new motor mount when ordering.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Madin88 has upgraded his ebike and registered it as a street legal moped in Austria.

 

[dfarning]

Thanks,

I'll contact vendors directly via email.

This looks like a great project to help me through the January doldrums here in Wisconsin. Although it does seem likely I might freeze my tuckus off while road testing

Sorry about the... noise and double post. I didn't realize many of the same people were on both this forum and the electricbike.com forum.

 

[Alex07]

Unread postby sather » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:43 pm
dfarning:
It looks like the new motor mount pictured in Robocams post (top of page 73 above) will be sufficient. The question is how much old stock each vendor has. I would specify that you want the new motor mount when ordering

I wouldn't count on that as it looks to have the exact same thin flimsy mount ! the only thing they have done is added another hose clamp around the motor, as if that will stop the motor movement lol hose clamps can provide tension only but i cant see how they will stop the motor torqueing and looseing itself.

 

[dfarning]

I have a TIG welder, so some DIY bracing is not a show stopper. However, working out of the box is big plus.

 

[robocam]

I think the "new" design is worse. I wouldn't want it. I want a design that rigidly supports the other side. A hose clamp only resists force in one direction. I tried using a hose clamp to strengthen the bracket that came with my Cyclone, but when I tightened it, it caused the motor to sit funny. I would prefer the stock bracket so that I can brace the other side with a piece of aluminum.

...It looks like the new motor mount pictured in Robocams post (top of page 73 above) will be sufficient. The question is how much old stock each vendor has. I would specify that you want the new motor mount when ordering.

 

[sather]

Robocam: ??? It appears in your photo above, that the new mount has gotten rid of the 6 mm threaded sleeve and replaced it with 2 bolts on one side and 2 bolts on the other side which would give better lateral support than the old mount. Granted, it's still not as good as the Robocam side plate with grade 8 through bolts. And not as good as the Dingus dual L's with center pillar.
DingusMcGee mount Page 37
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=900

Detailed Robocam mount on page 37
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=900

 

[DingusMcGee]

There was a very good eBay price on a new [new but missing original packing material] SDG aftermarket Kawasaki 250 EX enduro seat. The seat is high cushion depth and the seat upholstery material is the grippiest material I have seen but the seat came with a smoother seat cover. It was to be used on the Specialized Big Hit but the finished product left my feet a little higher off the ground than the position I use for difficult riding.



After some experimentation with how low I could mount the seat by eliminating the seat post and drilling a hole in the oak platform to fit over the seat tube, I achieved a platform position just over the top tube. This set up achieved some lateral seat stability with a tight gear clamp passing thru the hole in the seat frame triangle and thru 2 holes in the oak platform.



The above set up achieved a minimum height for the seat platform but likely it would need more lateral stability when the hole's tight fit over the seat tube wore and loosened. To achieve lateral stability I press fitted [ by the beating method] a 7/16" grade 8 bolt into a cutoff seat post that was drilled to 13/32" perpendicular to near the top of the tube. It is kind of a "T" Bar.



If you desired the minimum seat height the "T" Bar could be placed on top of the oak platform and pinched between the seat and the platform to increase stability. The seat position using the shallow KTM SX85 seat was too low for my likes when the platform rested on the top tube. If the "T" Bar is placed below the seat the gear clamp tightens it to the oak platform. Another advantage of the "T" bar over the standard one bolt seat post is a much bigger range of rotation and getting the seat to dip towards the front is easily achieved.



When the seat platform is positioned at enough height above the top tube, the platform can then be set on top of the "T" Bar. For these heights lock the seat clamp on seat tube at the desired position of the "T" bar. The gear clamp can be tightened so much as to pull the seat tube down when the seat clamp is tight.



As KTM SX85 seat beats the banana seat I may have to keep it on the Specialized Big Hit or later get a KTM low enduro seat [for more length] so my feet can touch the ground as I like. The KTM High Enduro seat would likely be to high when mounted as low as possible.