new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[DingusMcGee]

Pablo,

thanks for the both clarifications and I am sorry for the mistake. Yes, you have offered to send me a new motor and I have told you I could easily fix the one you sent as I have a supply of 7 pin JST plugs.

My comment, was intended to mean that I do not know what will ultimately happen through both you and the Cyclone Customer service since I did mention to you that I can fix the wiring at home but what is that skill worth -- Maybe as much as the one way shipping as I know the motor works when the loose wires are touched. But as you did not seem to want to stop there with me fixing it I did mention here that the case is still up in the air. I presume that a total of 2x the cost of one way shipping costs would be needed for your offer -- send the new motor and I return the damaged motor.

As I have never talked with or knew of Paco from Cyclone I thought Robocam must be talking of the owner of SBP that I know as Pablo.

pablo says,

The interesting part is I offered to send you a new motor. That offer still stands.

And I say the even more interesting part for me is who pays the shipping each way? This item of paying shipping was not forthcoming when I heard, :"I will send you a new motor"

 

[Pablo]

Will resolve offline equitably. Thanks!

PS And I will add - it's a warranty issue, we will make it right. We would not make a customer ship back a warranty problem at their expense. In this case, we will offer an amount of money as a refund if the owner reconnects the pulled out wires. (first time we have seen this, looks like factory handling issue and Cyclone has been informed)

 

[DingusMcGee]

Pablo and I did reach a Win-Win solution quickly as I sorted of expected except that I did not know exactly when we would as it looked like a 3rd party, Cyclone Taiwan, was possibly involved.

 

[Pjlegend]

is Anyone having issues connecting the Phaserunner with the cyclone?

During Autotune, I keep getting error messages of 'motor not detected'

I tried the various fixes such as increasing comm speed but to no avail



Has any one had this issue and know a fix to get this beast going?

Also a pic of internals of cyclone 3000w motor (wanted to see what all the fuss is about)



From looking at the rubber grommet, I will probably coat it with a sealant of some sort, there is an air gap when I move the phase/hall wires in a certain direction

 

[DingusMcGee]

Pjlegend,

From looking at the rubber grommet, I will probably coat it with a sealant of some sort, there is an air gap when I move the phase/hall wires in a certain direction

Yes, that location [where the wires enter the motor] is most likely the place where if not liquid water, just water vapor from the atmosphere gets into the motor. Apparently the heat of the motor during a typical ride does not vaporize those condensed droplet enough to drive out all the water and vapor.

 

[CobraJet]

Yes, that location [where the wires enter the motor] is most likely the place where if not liquid water, just water vapor from the atmosphere gets into the motor. Apparently the heat of the motor during a typical ride does not vaporize those condensed droplet enough to drive out all the water and vapor.

Me thinks it not getting that hot would be a good thing!

 

[MarkLeeds]

is Anyone having issues connecting the Phaserunner with the cyclone?

During Autotune, I keep getting error messages of 'motor not detected'

I tried the various fixes such as increasing comm speed but to no avail



Has any one had this issue and know a fix to get this beast going?

Also a pic of internals of cyclone 3000w motor (wanted to see what all the fuss is about)

View attachment 1

From looking at the rubber grommet, I will probably coat it with a sealant of some sort, there is an air gap when I move the phase/hall wires in a certain direction

If you search YouTube for phaserunner cyclone there's a video of a cyclone 3000 running with a phaserunner. It was posted by ert - maybe you could get in touch. If you get it working please could you share

 

[sather]

There is no gasket on the side plate of the Cyclone. If you want to make the C3000 watertight you will have to use Silicone sealant on the entire flange of the side plate as well as on the grommet around the electrical wires.

I run my stock (not sealed) C3000 in the rain and have had no problems so far. The Cyclone runs so hot any moisture should evaporate, unless you submerge the motor.

 

[tikivic]

Has anyone tried using a half-link chain in the secondary reduction (motor-to-crankset) to reduce drops? After experiencing how awesome narrow-wide rings are at holding a chain, I ordered a narrow-wide motor-to-crankset chainring to replace the outer chainring of my crankset, but before the chainring even arrived, I thought of using a half-link chain instead.

Since with a half-link chain there isn't an alternating sideplate distance, shouldn't the chain stay on just as well as a narrow-wide setup using a regular chain? If I use a narrow-wide chainring with a regular chain, the motor freewheel sprocket still isn't a narrow-wide sprocket, so I wouldn't be getting the full benefit, but with a half-link chain, I would be getting improved chain retention on both sprockets.

http://kmcchain.us/chain/hl710-silver/

YES....I'm using a half link on mine but I only just got the bike running so I only have about 20 miles or so on it. Also I'm using the Luna-tic sprocket set and I eliminated the chain tensioner altogether.

 

[robocam]

Hey that looks nice! I wish I could make custom brackets like that. How did you decide on the Luna crankset? Do you have closeup pictures of it? What's the BCD?

YES....I'm using a half link on mine but I only just got the bike running so I only have about 20 miles or so on it. Also I'm using the Luna-tic sprocket set and I eliminated the chain tensioner altogether...

 

[tikivic]

It looked much heavier duty than the stock Cyclone setup, and it is really nice. Actually I have no idea what the BCD is, I'll have to measure it for you :? I'll try to get some pics up too.

 

[Megsy73]

I was just reading on ES sphere The Luna version isn't cheap for what it includes compared to other kits, see below :

Colt Jones: Ya but you guy are $1400 to $2000 luna is $700 something. And lunas already look better we'll have to see luna reliability.
Like • Reply • 29 April at 22:10


Jim Kat Hi Colt Jones when you compare prices you need to compare apples to apples. I have the options on lunas site that best matches our 48v ultimate kit to get closest comparison. So add isis bb triplle chainring and hduty crank the Luna kit price is 1000 usd. Our 48v ultimate kit is 1649aud minus 10% now 1484 aud. Or 1111 usd. And for that 111 usd price difference you get our huge laser cut cooling fins. Wipperman 7r8 chain. Acs freewheels a custom built motor and gearbox. Do they even open the motor or gearbox ? We can add additional upgrades to make it handle 72v 5kw since we open every motor and gearbox like a motor temp sensor and full colour step by step instructions.. etc etc so now see which is more value for money.
Like • Reply • 2 • 29 April at 22:40

Colt Jones Good info i like what your doing and $111 isn't much more.

Jim Kat The point is this is not a new motor and gearbox setup. Its well known what i can and cannot do. You can see our broken parts photo gallery what we learnt over 6 years and 30,000km of testing on this motor platform. Also forget to mention our mount sy...See more

 

[robocam]

Thanks. Do you have a link to the thread?

 

[Megsy73]

It was on ES facebook group where i read this comparison of the new Luna mini cyclone vs AFT 48v ultimate kit, not sure how to link to that just search there...

 

[robocam]

Hey look, a 48-72V version of the Kelly controller is available now. 100 amp bursts for 10 seconds. 3-speed switch.

https://lunacycle.com/kelly-controller-for-cyclone-72v/

http://kellycontroller.com/kbs72101x40a24-72v-mini-brushless-dc-controller-p-506.html

 

[DingusMcGee]

From the Kelly manual that Robo linked

•Controller supply voltage range: PWR, 18V to 90V for controllers rated equal or lower than
72V. 8V to 30V for 24V controller.

Take note: the maximum voltage allowable by Kelly controllers that Kelly touts can be less than what they say. In particular I had a KBL96151, The 96 of the serial number does mean 96 v nominal and according to their manual this controller has a 120v max. The particular battery pack I made for this controller and bike was to top out at 117 v [fully charged] and this is what the pack voltage measured with a calibrated Fluke multimeter. The controller would give an overvoltage signal and would not perform unless I discharged the battery to just under 116 volts.

I could not get my model of Kelly controller to work with the Cyclone 3000 and Fany of Kelly Controls then told me to switch the Hall sensor voltage from 5v to 12v as the Kellys do not so well at 5v to the Hall sensors with the cyclones. The motor readily ran with 12 v to the sensor -- this source actually put out 10.98v. The Cyclone-3000 OEM Micronas Hall Sensors are rated to over 24vdc for the base. The 72v Kelly controller offered by Luna does have the 12v output. It will be interesting to see what voltage the Luna/Kelly controller is setup to supply to the Halls.


The throttle programming for this Luna/Kelly seems to have less throttle action altering features than my Kelly did based on a look at its manual. My Kelly controller has a 2 part throttle adjustment detail where an inflection point was moved to where you wanted to separate low end performance from high end performance. You could move the inflection point to one end or the other and only get one kind of performance. The CA-V3 throttle management would certainly be my preference over what this Kelly Controller did. But the Luna/Kelly looks to have less throttle features than the Kelly controllers I have, except possibly it may have the likes of the 3-way speed switch that is on the C-3000 OEM controller?

Edit: I have looked over the Kelly program for programming this controller and it looks to be the same program as mine but the Luna/Kelly controllers manual does not list the throttle inflection point adjustment as part of the setup routine. Even on my program there are features programmable listed that are not built into some models that use this program.

My Kelly controller seems to have quit working -- a throttle sent signal yields no motion in the C-3000 motor but that motor runs when I hook up its OEM controller. This likely Kelly failure was with less than 300 miles of riding. So I am a little hesitant to harness my 2 x Multirotor 20s 16 amp Hr LiPO packs to one of these new Kelly Controllers but Luna may have gotten Kelly to work the bugs out this setup? But I do like the compactness of this controller. No sine wave is no big deal. But how long will it last?

Robo, how about you go first and tell us how it performs and lasts?

 

[Skaiwerd]

So using my three multistars 6s, 75volts full charge, wouldn't be advisable with the 50 amp Luna controller? It appears the 60 amp Bluetooth controller for cyclone from Luna has disappeared. I think I remember it being 60 amp, could have been 50 amp. I'm thinking of getting some prices for some cut steel plates that make up the cyclone mount. For my in frame motor use going shorter could bring the motor a bit lower to allow more battery room above the motor but more importantly eliminate the chain tensioner. I like steel as it's cheaper than aluminum and a lot easier to weld. My multiplaz plasma welder, yes welder not cutter although it can also cut, welds steel amazingly with no tanks to rent for the gasses needed for good mig or tig welding. More info on the mount later. My computer is on the fritz so cad and 3-d printing is on hold for now.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Skaiwerd,

So using my three multistars 6s, 75volts full charge, wouldn't be advisable with the 50 amp Luna controller?

The Cyclone-3000 OEM [40 amp?] controller is rated nominally at 72v but and according to Luna that means about 84 v max. I have run three multistars of 6s and one of 2s which gives a max voltage of 4.2 x 20 = 84 volts for some time on the OEM controller. And on another bike i made a pack of 18650 cells that charge to a max of 84 volts and no problem yet -- going on 1.5 years.

At 75 volts max absolutely no overvoltage problem for the OEM C-3000 controller. You could still get an overheating problem.

 

[Skaiwerd]

DingusMcgee

I rode most of last summer with the stock controller for the cyclone 3000, 75v, 3, 6s, multistars. The motor did get hot on occasion but never shut down on me. I'd take a break if it was overly hot to the touch, few minutes at most. I eventually went with a derailleur to have the gearing more match the terrain. The question is will the new Kelly controller for the cyclone 3000 from Luna handle the 75 volts? The link to the Kelly site reads in at 90 volts maximum. Just checking, an additional 750watts or one hp more would be nice!

 

[robocam]

Just shunt mod the stock controller. Also, why would it shut down? It doesn't have a temperature sensor stock.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Skaiwerd,

The error difference in % of what Kelly said of what my controller could handle and what it did handle was about 4/120 = 3 & 1/3%. If Kelly can be off no more than 3.5% you likely would not have a problem with 86 volts but a hand build pack of 21s LiPo = 88.2 volts might be thought of as a little bit sketchy of a battery installation without some testing for max voltage first. I say this also because I have had 2 96v controllers from BikeNetwork that also had errors in the high end voltage allowed and were noticed after I build the pack with a voltage very close to the controllers high end voltage.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Robo,
you say:

Just shunt mod the stock controller.

As the OEM controllers are quite cheap and at $50 you can easily modify them by adding solder to the shut wire. I would recommend adding a high temp motor shut off if you have no idea about how many amps the motor is getting after the modification as the motor could heat up very quickly with the 20 sec duration of 320 amps that some LiPos can put out.. If you don't like the result spend $50 and get another OEM controller unless the result was that you fried your motor [$220]

Gman1971 claimed to have done this mod for more amps. Did he report to us how many motors he toasted? If you saw the shunt wire into 2 ends the resistance become for meter reading purposes -- infinite. No amount of amps will register any millivolts across the shunt.

There are 2 pathways to more speed: more voltage will make the motor run faster and very high amperage like LiPo's can put out will give you much more torque and you will then be able to pull a higher speed using a high geared setup that with less amps would not happen due to the increased wind resistance at higher speeds.

 

[Skaiwerd]

Robocam
I forgot the shunt mod was an option also to get more out of the cyclone. I have a feeling I am confusing the cyclone with with the other mid drive in 02 and hd versions. Besides a temperature sensor added to the cyclone motor how would you know if it has overheated? When the motor stops and is smoking? I've read about replacing the phase wires with thicker gauge wires. Etc.

DingusMcgee

Thanks for the information. Most of it was over my head but that's fine. Your reply reassures me of one thing. Stick to what I normally do and just try it, if I can afford it, if it seems reasonable etc. . Seems this is what you do. But on a more technical scale, some of us, myself included, takes risks, sometimes waisting money, all for the thrill of improving and riding our creations.

 

[robocam]

Actually, you decrease the resistance of the shunt to increase the amperage. You can do this by adding solder, or soldering on a large staple. Then you can find out your amperage with a Cycle Analyst or a cheap power meter like this one.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XJKNM9Y

Here's what Gman said about his Cyclones. It doesn't look like he toasted any motors.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1375#p1223967

...increase the resistance across it making the device read less millivolts for a given amperage...

...Gman1971 claimed to have done this mod for more amps. Did he report to us how many motors he toasted? If you saw the shunt wire into 2 ends the resistance become for meter reading purposes -- infinite. No amount of amps will register any millivolts across the shunt...

 

[robocam]

I've never pushed a Cyclone beyond stock power levels, but if I were to try, I would hold back if something smelled burnt. That's how I treat my car's subwoofer, and it has worked just fine =) You can then associate the temperature probe readings with what it can handle.

Wasting money here is not too painful because the motor is "only" $100 including shipping from Paco at Cyclone.

Robocam
I forgot the shunt mod was an option also to get more out of the cyclone. I have a feeling I am confusing the cyclone with with the other mid drive in 02 and hd versions. Besides a temperature sensor added to the cyclone motor how would you know if it has overheated? When the motor stops and is smoking? I've read about replacing the phase wires with thicker gauge wires. Etc.

DingusMcgee

Thanks for the information. Most of it was over my head but that's fine. Your reply reassures me of one thing. Stick to what I normally do and just try it, if I can afford it, if it seems reasonable etc. . Seems this is what you do. But on a more technical scale, some of us, myself included, takes risks, sometimes waisting money, all for the thrill of improving and riding our creations.