new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[gman1971]

Quick question...are the chains the same width (Motor to crank & Crank to cassette). I think this could solve my problem of the chains catching in the higher gears

I am using a BMX 1/8 chain from motor to crank and a 10speed 3/32 from crank to cassette... I was unable to fit a 7speed chain over the sprocket on the motor.

G.

 

[DingusMcGee]

millzy55,


I had some chain meshing problems some time ago:


First, in one zone, my inner chainring came with a slight deflection towards the outer chainring. You can bend this in the right direction with a bar so as to permanently deflect the ring into running in a flat plane.

Then I added 4 thin washers between the chainring bolts to get more space between the two chainrings. The thickness of the equal washer(s) desired is enough thickness to get the chains' gap at the pins when in the highest gears and the chains are pushed fully towards each other on the rings to have a gap of 0.050" (at the pins). This gap is measured where the top of the rear chain meets the motor chain and you must add a little throttle torque on the setup if tangential alignment between the 2 gears is not good, as the big chainrings deflect when under high force off angle loading.

Less gap (0.025") could likely work but my front derailleur cage needs about this much space to not rub on the motor chain. The rear chain movement through the adjusted cage appears to touch the cage ever so lightly in the right most rear gear that I detect no wear with such proximity. And no more chain meshing.

 

[millzy555]

Thanks for that. Ordered a standard chain to try it out first. (motor to crank). I dont have alot of room (2-3mm), from the chainring nut to the frame of the unit. I might try reversing the chainring screw/ nut then space the two chain rings like you said

 

[EMCO]

Looking for a 100mm ISIS Bottom Bracket for my cyclone build.

found these two on ebay:
Truvativ Giga Pipe ........http://www.ebay.com/itm/191009660992?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

FSA PLATINUM DH .......http://www.ebay.com/itm/191380956402?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Witch one do you guys think would be better? I'm not really a "bicycle guy" so I'll need a little help figuring some of this stuff out.

 

[gman1971]

Looking for a 100mm ISIS Bottom Bracket for my cyclone build.

found these two on ebay:
Truvativ Giga Pipe ........http://www.ebay.com/itm/191009660992?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

FSA PLATINUM DH .......http://www.ebay.com/itm/191380956402?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Witch one do you guys think would be better? I'm not really a "bicycle guy" so I'll need a little help figuring some of this stuff out.

Get the Cyclone ISIS BB 100mm, its on their website, nothing else will work since it won't clear the motor.

G.

 

[Phife]

Heres what Im working on, A little teaser. I'll post a full thread with details on this bike soon.

2014 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Evo Comp, with a Cyclone drive fitted in the triangle. I was pleasantly surprised to find that this motor fits here without any modification to the stock mounting bracket. Cant wait to get it running!

 

[EMCO]

Get the Cyclone ISIS BB 100mm, its on their website, nothing else will work since it won't clear the motor.

G.

Looking at cyclone's website. All the ISIS BB's I see have a spindle length of 148mm, but only have a shell width of 68-73 or 83. No 100mm options. the ones I found on ebay have the same spindle length (148mm) and a 100mm shell length. I'm assuming these will work, they are the same spindle length as the ones on cyclone's website. The only other, longer ones I see are square taper (witch I don't want) that are 178x 68-120 and 170x 68-110.

http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.com/order-chainwheel.htm

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

Get the Cyclone ISIS BB 100mm, its on their website, nothing else will work since it won't clear the motor.

G.

Looking at cyclone's website. All the ISIS BB's I see have a spindle length of 148mm, but only have a shell width of 68-73 or 83. No 100mm options. the ones I found on ebay have the same spindle length (148mm) and a 100mm shell length. I'm assuming these will work, they are the same spindle length as the ones on cyclone's website. The only other, longer ones I see are square taper (witch I don't want) that are 178x 68-120 and 170x 68-110.

http://www.cyclone-e-bikes.com/order-chainwheel.htm

EMCO, please do report back and let us know if the 148mm spindle length works. It would be good to have a few options.

 

[gman1971]

I was out this couple of days, yeah, as long as its wide enough to clear you can use anything, but someone earlier in this thread ran into a fitting issue with the Truvativ BB...

Please, let us know if the one you get fits.

Thanks!

G.

 

[1KW]

few questions,
1. is the gearbox proven reliable up to date? will it last 2k+ miles
2. 48v, 60v, 72v? assuming top speed changes with the voltage increase? Torque would be same?

 

[le15otl]

Yes torque is incredible with 48v, speed is great with just 48v, 60 or 72v even better.

As far as my research went the gearboxes are very durable. I am definitely expecting over 2k miles

 

[gman1971]

few questions,
1. is the gearbox proven reliable up to date? will it last 2k+ miles
2. 48v, 60v, 72v? assuming top speed changes with the voltage increase? Torque would be same?

48V here (12S LiPo)

Yes, to date zero issues with this kit. I am now close to 1.5k miles, this includes my weekend adventures towing 100+ lbs of dogs/trailer and running 30+ mph daily commutes on snowy, salty and sleet roads here in Wisconsin. My bike has yet to miss a beat. I've crashed twice, one time at 20mph and one at 5mph, no damage. The motor has also quiet down a lot from when it was new; and the power is unbelievable, when my 48V LiPos are fresh it will do 0-30mph in 4 seconds flat. If you have the battery it will go up a 10% hill at 30 mph without breaking a sweat, or stripping gears. Motor has also locked rotor protection, so if you try to run it while its locked it will simply cut. The startup is fairly smooth, but at the end of the day you need to realize the kit will put down close to 2.2 kW on 48V so thats a lot of power and wheelies

Torque will be considerably higher on 72V vs 48V... I would say roughly 50% more torque... which will translate in faster top end, and faster acceleration. I think the sweet spot for this kit for daily commuter is at 48V, then again, thats just my thought.

For the price, you can't beat this kit.

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

My cyclone broke down last week, not sure what happened. The chain guard bent, and I believe the freewheel locked up. Motor also isn's straight anymore got misaligned from the torque. Won't be able to fix or touch it for another week. I got a extra cyclone here that I will reinforce before putting it on

 

[le15otl]

That is a good point actually haha, you have to be able to cope with and expect wheelies with this kit. Sometimes not wheelieing is really hard up a hill

G, what gear cassette and chain are you running?

I'm using a 9 speed cassette and 9spd SRAM chain and experience some problems on the higher gears.
It sometimes slips, not gripping the cog well enough. And I've snapped the chain about 10 times...
Looking for a good reliable drivetrain setup now.
This is not the fault of the cyclone kit.

 

[robocam]

How many miles are you getting per chain? How many teeth are on your crankset chainrings? Are you running the stock controller in modified? How many volts?

I believe G's using the Shimano 10-speed with the 36t large cog.

That is a good point actually haha, you have to be able to cope with and expect wheelies with this kit. Sometimes not wheelieing is really hard up a hill

G, what gear cassette and chain are you running?

I'm using a 9 speed cassette and 9spd SRAM chain and experience some problems on the higher gears.
It sometimes slips, not gripping the cog well enough. And I've snapped the chain about 10 times...
Looking for a good reliable drivetrain setup now.
This is not the fault of the cyclone kit.

 

[robocam]

How many volts and amps were you running when this happened?

My cyclone broke down last week, not sure what happened. The chain guard bent, and I believe the freewheel locked up. Motor also isn's straight anymore got misaligned from the torque. Won't be able to fix or touch it for another week. I got a extra cyclone here that I will reinforce before putting it on

 

[gman1971]

My cyclone broke down last week, not sure what happened. The chain guard bent, and I believe the freewheel locked up. Motor also isn's straight anymore got misaligned from the torque. Won't be able to fix or touch it for another week. I got a extra cyclone here that I will reinforce before putting it on

Sorry to hear, which chain guard are you refering to? The plastic little thing around the crank? If that is the case then chances are your chain threw out and when it threw everything broke along with it, probably destroying the freewheel along with it. Chain throwing IMO is due to too much flex, and running 72V and 70 amps was a bit above the rated capacity of this motor... thats 4.5 kW!! If you are to run 4.5 kW I would use more reinforcement than the hose clamp. (I have modded mine with the extra washers and some extra support points on the frame. I am not using zipties anywhere either.)

G.

 

[robocam]

Do you think it's safe to run a stock Cyclone on a light-weight aluminum full suspension frame? I'm worried it will break the chainstays. I guess I could move it over to an all-mountain frame if it breaks, assuming I survive.

My cyclone broke down last week, not sure what happened. The chain guard bent, and I believe the freewheel locked up. Motor also isn's straight anymore got misaligned from the torque. Won't be able to fix or touch it for another week. I got a extra cyclone here that I will reinforce before putting it on

Sorry to hear, which chain guard are you refering to? The plastic little thing around the crank? If that is the case then chances are your chain threw out and when it threw everything broke along with it, probably destroying the freewheel along with it. Chain throwing IMO is due to too much flex, and running 72V and 70 amps was a bit above the rated capacity of this motor... thats 4.5 kW!! If you are to run 4.5 kW I would use more reinforcement than the hose clamp. (I have modded mine with the extra washers and some extra support points on the frame. I am not using zipties anywhere either.)

G.

 

[evolutiongts]

My cyclone broke down last week, not sure what happened. The chain guard bent, and I believe the freewheel locked up. Motor also isn's straight anymore got misaligned from the torque. Won't be able to fix or touch it for another week. I got a extra cyclone here that I will reinforce before putting it on

Sorry to hear, which chain guard are you refering to? The plastic little thing around the crank? If that is the case then chances are your chain threw out and when it threw everything broke along with it, probably destroying the freewheel along with it. Chain throwing IMO is due to too much flex, and running 72V and 70 amps was a bit above the rated capacity of this motor... thats 4.5 kW!! If you are to run 4.5 kW I would use more reinforcement than the hose clamp. (I have modded mine with the extra washers and some extra support points on the frame. I am not using zipties anywhere either.)

G.

Yeah that sounds about right, but actually I wasn't even going that fast. I popped a huge wheelie from a standstill and that's when it all fell apart.

 

[gman1971]

I am running Shimano HG-62 10spd cassette, its an 11-36T. I am running a KMC 10 speed chain 10.99 IIRC.

I haven't broken a single chain since mile 0 on this kit (and the chain I am running also had about 300 miles on the old GNG) and I am running full-throttle all the time @ 30+ mph, I am also operating my kit on mode # 3 with full unlocked RPM so my crank cadence is 160-180 RPM, and that allows me to achieve my cruising 30mph speeds in 5th gear, so the chain is barely stressed out by spinning the crank so high. I have 1.5k miles and the chain wear hasn't even ticked at .5 wear yet. I suspect is going to last a lifetime.

I haven't had any skipping either, only did once due to a sticking Derailleur cage that was reassembled wrong (my fault) I am also running a Shimano RD-615 Deore Shadow Plus Derailleur (10speed) with the clutch always engaged. My shifting is silk smooth and the bike has been running like clockwork.

I would suggest you run mode #3, crank the RPM to the max and forget about pedaling; seriously, at 30mph your input is insignificant. I do pedal, but just to move my legs, but no work is coming from them except the movement. I don't get why people put up such a stink for wanting to pedal at 30mph on their bike... it doesn't achieve anything except having to run the smallest cog and putting INSANE amounts of force through the chain and thus causing skipping.

So, if you want a bulletproof drivetrain then this the entire setup of what I run. People are welcome to copy it, improve upon the idea, and call it their own idea etc..., my only request would be to please refrain from arguing, question or play down any my design decisions. If you think you know better then by all means, go ahead and do it your way, but don't question my idea or play it down when the fact is that my setup has been running rock solid for 1.5k miles at 30+ mph and 1600 watts average... not a single issue (even after two crashes) and I have every single commute since I installed this kit on video to prove it.

NOTES:
-Do not shift under power, ever. If you do, things will break.
-Do not crosschain, (i.e. run small cog with small chainring, or big ring with big sprocket)
-Limit your wheelies, or better yet, don't wheelie.

Batteries:
x2 6S (22.2V) MultiStar 12000 mAh Lithium Polymer batteries.

Throttle:
Stock ORO throttle hardwired to the controller (no connector)

Controller:
Stock OEM Cyclone, running mode #3 in the speed selector switch. See my video on youtube as to how to enable mode #3.

Motor:
Stock OEM Cyclone 3000W motor with a 13T freewheel sprocket. Support mod with washers to lower the flex induced under load.

Motor-Crank chain:
BMX KMC 410 chain; one half link to shorten the chain. This is a chain I would not run a MTB.

Tensioner.
Direct bolt to plate (no stupid zipties), with a full metal bushing shimano derailleur cog (its a 13T)

Crank:
Cyclone crank with custom built chainring configuration 44T-48T-32T.

Cassette:
Shimano HG-62, 11-36T cassette.

Derailleur:
Shimano RD-615+ Shadow Plus (with clutch)

Crank-Cassette chain:
KMC 10.99 full nickel plated chain, with mushroom rivets and ligthened plates.

Wheel:
WTB double wall deore hub 32 spoke wheel.

This setup will allow you to run top speed in 5th gear, thus you will not snap another chain ever again.

That is a good point actually haha, you have to be able to cope with and expect wheelies with this kit. Sometimes not wheelieing is really hard up a hill

G, what gear cassette and chain are you running?

I'm using a 9 speed cassette and 9spd SRAM chain and experience some problems on the higher gears.
It sometimes slips, not gripping the cog well enough. And I've snapped the chain about 10 times...
Looking for a good reliable drivetrain setup now.
This is not the fault of the cyclone kit.

 

[EMCO]

Will the cyclone controller hold up to 18S liPo? I was thinking of getting 3 6S packs and running them in series. The nominal voltage would be 66.6V, but the fully charged voltage would be 75.6V. I see the cyclone controller is rated up to 72V. Is that the absolute max voltage you can put to it?

 

[gman1971]

Will the cyclone controller hold up to 18S liPo? I was thinking of getting 3 6S packs and running them in series. The nominal voltage would be 66.6V, but the fully charged voltage would be 75.6V. I see the cyclone controller is rated up to 72V. Is that the absolute max voltage you can put to it?

Capacitors are rated 80 volts, 18S should be < 80 V so it should work just fine. I've spoken with a friend who is into electronics and he suggested replacing the capacitors with 100V to run 80V, his thinking was that you want a large enough voltage gap between rated V and whatever V you're running.

G.

 

[le15otl]

Thanks for all your setup it's really useful to know. I do run mode 3 but still sometimes end up using higher gears than 5th. And it is usually on the higher gears that the chain snapped.
I think unless there's a chain/setup that will cope with the 6/7/8/9 gears without skipping I'll have to go to 72v instead allowing more speed with a larger gear.
Out of interest does yours actually skip on higher gears too, or have you never tried using them at high speed?

Robocam, I've had one chain for around 600 miles, and on commutes it tends to be fine. It's when I try and get a lot of performance that there's trouble with it snapping. My crankset chainring is 44T I think. I'm using an infineon 40A controller at 48v, not modified.

 

[robocam]

But are you running a 44-48 on the crankset, or are you using a 44-44? You need to reduce the reduction ratio to reduce the strain on the chain.

Thanks for all your setup it's really useful to know. I do run mode 3 but still sometimes end up using higher gears than 5th. And it is usually on the higher gears that the chain snapped.
I think unless there's a chain/setup that will cope with the 6/7/8/9 gears without skipping I'll have to go to 72v instead allowing more speed with a larger gear.
Out of interest does yours actually skip on higher gears too, or have you never tried using them at high speed?

Robocam, I've had one chain for around 600 miles, and on commutes it tends to be fine. It's when I try and get a lot of performance that there's trouble with it snapping. My crankset chainring is 44T I think. I'm using an infineon 40A controller at 48v, not modified.

 

[gman1971]

I am running a 44-48-32 crank. That's a further 10% lower chain stress... right there.

G.

But are you running a 44-48 on the crankset, or are you using a 44-44? You need to reduce the reduction ratio to reduce the strain on the chain.

Thanks for all your setup it's really useful to know. I do run mode 3 but still sometimes end up using higher gears than 5th. And it is usually on the higher gears that the chain snapped.
I think unless there's a chain/setup that will cope with the 6/7/8/9 gears without skipping I'll have to go to 72v instead allowing more speed with a larger gear.
Out of interest does yours actually skip on higher gears too, or have you never tried using them at high speed?

Robocam, I've had one chain for around 600 miles, and on commutes it tends to be fine. It's when I try and get a lot of performance that there's trouble with it snapping. My crankset chainring is 44T I think. I'm using an infineon 40A controller at 48v, not modified.