new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[gman1971]

Thanks for all your setup it's really useful to know. I do run mode 3 but still sometimes end up using higher gears than 5th. And it is usually on the higher gears that the chain snapped.
I think unless there's a chain/setup that will cope with the 6/7/8/9 gears without skipping I'll have to go to 72v instead allowing more speed with a larger gear.
Out of interest does yours actually skip on higher gears too, or have you never tried using them at high speed?

Robocam, I've had one chain for around 600 miles, and on commutes it tends to be fine. It's when I try and get a lot of performance that there's trouble with it snapping. My crankset chainring is 44T I think. I'm using an infineon 40A controller at 48v, not modified.

No skip on any gear here. Based on my limited previous experience that sounds to me that your derailleur is not working correctly... I have never used SRAM but the Shimano Shadow Plus stuff is top notch. I paid 49 bucks for the RD-615+ and 39 for the SLX shifters. Worth every penny.

I would copy my setup part for part; if you do, I'll show you how to modify the SLX index shifters to be used with the ORO throttle. It is super easy.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I just thought, make sure your chain is not crosschained too much when you run the higher gears... I run dual chainring so I made sure my 4-5-6-7-8-9-10 sprocket gears the chain is centered at 7th gear with the 48T chrainring. When using my 32T chainring the chain is centered around 3rd gear. This is another reason why I like to run dual chainring, so I can keep the chain straight.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I also don't know how the Infinieon controller would behave vs the Cyclone one... I can say that the stock Cyclone controller seems really really smooth at high RPM, it has a very gradual RPM build up after its past the low end grunt. And b/c I am using index shifters like a paddle F-1 shifter my shifts are less than .5 seconds, so the motor inertia alone gets the chain shifted and then I just punch the throttle again; always at high RPM (where torque is very low).

G.

 

[gman1971]

If someone really wants to lower the stress on the bike chain (cassette-crank chain) then I would go for something like 40-48-24T crank... thats a 20% force reduction... and if you do this, make sure you run a 1/8 BMX chain on your motor-crank chain (drivechain).

G.

 

[dirkdiggler]

How would the cyclone do if you ran it direct to the wheel to go pedal-less? I don't like the exposed chains running and with this much power, I don't think I'd want to pedal. Unless you have to pedal home from dead battery. Sounds like a chain break would be the bigger issue, and there is no pedaling home that way!

 

[1KW]

I am running Shimano HG-62 10spd cassette, its an 11-36T. I am running a KMC 10 speed chain 10.99 IIRC.

I haven't broken a single chain since mile 0 on this kit (and the chain I am running also had about 300 miles on the old GNG) and I am running full-throttle all the time @ 30+ mph, I am also operating my kit on mode # 3 with full unlocked RPM so my crank cadence is 160-180 RPM, and that allows me to achieve my cruising 30mph speeds in 5th gear, so the chain is barely stressed out by spinning the crank so high. I have 1.5k miles and the chain wear hasn't even ticked at .5 wear yet. I suspect is going to last a lifetime.

I haven't had any skipping either, only did once due to a sticking Derailleur cage that was reassembled wrong (my fault) I am also running a Shimano RD-615 Deore Shadow Plus Derailleur (10speed) with the clutch always engaged. My shifting is silk smooth and the bike has been running like clockwork.

I would suggest you run mode #3, crank the RPM to the max and forget about pedaling; seriously, at 30mph your input is insignificant. I do pedal, but just to move my legs, but no work is coming from them except the movement. I don't get why people put up such a stink for wanting to pedal at 30mph on their bike... it doesn't achieve anything except having to run the smallest cog and putting INSANE amounts of force through the chain and thus causing skipping.

So, if you want a bulletproof drivetrain then this the entire setup of what I run. People are welcome to copy it, improve upon the idea, and call it their own idea etc..., my only request would be to please refrain from arguing, question or play down any my design decisions. If you think you know better then by all means, go ahead and do it your way, but don't question my idea or play it down when the fact is that my setup has been running rock solid for 1.5k miles at 30+ mph and 1600 watts average... not a single issue (even after two crashes) and I have every single commute since I installed this kit on video to prove it.

NOTES:
-Do not shift under power, ever. If you do, things will break.
-Do not crosschain, (i.e. run small cog with small chainring, or big ring with big sprocket)
-Limit your wheelies, or better yet, don't wheelie.

Batteries:
x2 6S (22.2V) MultiStar 12000 mAh Lithium Polymer batteries.

Throttle:
Stock ORO throttle hardwired to the controller (no connector)

Controller:
Stock OEM Cyclone, running mode #3 in the speed selector switch. See my video on youtube as to how to enable mode #3.

Motor:
Stock OEM Cyclone 3000W motor with a 13T freewheel sprocket. Support mod with washers to lower the flex induced under load.

Motor-Crank chain:
BMX KMC 410 chain; one half link to shorten the chain. This is a chain I would not run a MTB.

Tensioner.
Direct bolt to plate (no stupid zipties), with a full metal bushing shimano derailleur cog (its a 13T)

Crank:
Cyclone crank with custom built chainring configuration 44T-48T-32T.

Cassette:
Shimano HG-62, 11-36T cassette.

Derailleur:
Shimano RD-615+ Shadow Plus (with clutch)

Crank-Cassette chain:
KMC 10.99 full nickel plated chain, with mushroom rivets and ligthened plates.

Wheel:
WTB double wall deore hub 32 spoke wheel.

This setup will allow you to run top speed in 5th gear, thus you will not snap another chain ever again.

That is a good point actually haha, you have to be able to cope with and expect wheelies with this kit. Sometimes not wheelieing is really hard up a hill

G, what gear cassette and chain are you running?

I'm using a 9 speed cassette and 9spd SRAM chain and experience some problems on the higher gears.
It sometimes slips, not gripping the cog well enough. And I've snapped the chain about 10 times...
Looking for a good reliable drivetrain setup now.
This is not the fault of the cyclone kit.

what range with 12000mah?

 

[gman1971]

Around 13 miles at 30+ mph cruise speed.

G.

 

[le15otl]

I'll try a new chain and derailleur otherwise I may try changing the chain ring setup as you put so the largest one is driving the bike.
Currently i'm running 48 (motor) and 44 (to rear cassette )

 

[Phife]

Got my 3000w cyclone build pretty much complete. I think it turned out pretty good, check it out here guys.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78681

Thanks to you guys here on ES it all went together really smoothly.

 

[greg_p]

Hello Gman,
It looks like you have tried using the cyclone motor with infineon controller. Could you tell how it goes?
I have infineon 45A and 9c at the rear, but I am interested in the conversion to mid drive. I would only need motor kit as I have batteries, controller and some controls too.

 

[gman1971]

I'll try a new chain and derailleur otherwise I may try changing the chain ring setup as you put so the largest one is driving the bike.
Currently i'm running 48 (motor) and 44 (to rear cassette )

Yeah, that is a 10% of force INCREASE, so that would explain it. My setup is a 44T from motor, and 48 to rear cassette.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Hello Gman,
It looks like you have tried using the cyclone motor with infineon controller. Could you tell how it goes?
I have infineon 45A and 9c at the rear, but I am interested in the conversion to mid drive. I would only need motor kit as I have batteries, controller and some controls too.

I don't have an infinieon controller. Only the original Cyclone controller and so far I am pleased with it. Works well.

I think it is better to get the entire kit... the difference in price is not very significant. I would run the stock controller since its all wired to work with it... just MO.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Got my 3000w cyclone build pretty much complete. I think it turned out pretty good, check it out here guys.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78681

Thanks to you guys here on ES it all went together really smoothly.

Nice build, but I should point out that a 44-38T crank is going to eat rear chains alive... I would get a 44-48T instead. My Luna Cycle 44T inner chainring also came bent.

G.

 

[le15otl]

I would go for it the other way round like you have it, if I could still have an excellent hill climbing gear, but I would need another chainring to fit in there for that.

greg I use the cyclone motor with an infineon 40A controller. Works great.
I had two cyclone controllers previous which both failed randomly, I guess I had bad luck there.

 

[gman1971]

I would go for it the other way round like you have it, if I could still have an excellent hill climbing gear, but I would need another chainring to fit in there for that.

greg I use the cyclone motor with an infineon 40A controller. Works great.
I had two cyclone controllers previous which both failed randomly, I guess I had bad luck there.

That is the reason why run a triple chainring. In addition that if I run out of juice I can still climb any hill using my 32T chainring and 36T sprocket. Is there any reason why you wouldn't run a triple chainring? If you want reliable you have to make compromises.

G.

 

[le15otl]

I would run a triple, i even have 32T chainring spare. But, seeing as the main 48T one is fixed in (onto the freewheel) I can't see how it would work having it shift-able.. Do you have your 44T/motor chainring on the outside (pedal side) of the fixed ring?

 

[gman1971]

I would run a triple, i even have 32T chainring spare. But, seeing as the main 48T one is fixed in (onto the freewheel) I can't see how it would work having it shift-able.. Do you have your 44T/motor chainring on the outside (pedal side) of the fixed ring?

My 44 is on the outside, and the 48-32T are on the inside. I use a regular Shimano SIS derailleur with an SLX shifter to shift between the chainrings.

The outside chainring (drive chainring) unbolts from the freewheel with just 5 hex bolts (there might be nuts on the other side depending on which freewheel you have. You can order all the parts directly from Cyclone and all you really need is any triple chainring, those come with the small chainring already bolted. I originally ordered a 44-44-32T back when I had my GNG (October last year or so), then when I got the Cyclone running on mode #3 I ordered another 48-48-32T and a spare 48T with 104mm BCD, then I swapped the 44 on the middle from the 44-44-32T with the 48T. so now I have a 44-48-32T. On my wife's bike she runs the same 44-48-32T on my old GNG kit... so with the 48-48-32T I swapped the 48 on the outside with the 44T that came with the Luna Cycle 44-44T crank and now I have two 44-48-32T cranks.

G.

 

[gman1971]

In preparation for spring I just ordered a Ritchey 26x1.0 front tire; almost like road racing tires!!... It should be interesting to see how fast this thing can go once I lose all the coats, triple pants and backpack...

G.

 

[StinkyGoalieGuy]

In preparation for spring I just ordered a Ritchey 26x1.0 front tire; almost like road racing tires!!... It should be interesting to see how fast this thing can go once I lose all the coats, triple pants and backpack...

G.

I would be nervous running something that thin at those speeds unless your roads are really smooth and predictable. For me, I like something like a Schwalbe Big Apple in a 26x2.35. Maybe I'm getting soft in my age. Our roads are poorly maintained though - lots of potholes.

 

[gman1971]

In preparation for spring I just ordered a Ritchey 26x1.0 front tire; almost like road racing tires!!... It should be interesting to see how fast this thing can go once I lose all the coats, triple pants and backpack...

G.

I would be nervous running something that thin at those speeds unless your roads are really smooth and predictable. For me, I like something like a Schwalbe Big Apple in a 26x2.35. Maybe I'm getting soft in my age. Our roads are poorly maintained though - lots of potholes.

Good point; the roads I ride are fairly new... so they are in decent shape as far as potholes goes. This will be only for my front wheel... for the back one I run a 26x1.95 semislick tire. The tire was 24 dollars, I have another 26x1.95 semislick in case I don't like the 26x1.0...

G.

 

[Phife]

Got my 3000w cyclone build pretty much complete. I think it turned out pretty good, check it out here guys.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78681

Thanks to you guys here on ES it all went together really smoothly.

Nice build, but I should point out that a 44-38T crank is going to eat rear chains alive... I would get a 44-48T instead. My Luna Cycle 44T inner chainring also came bent.

G.

Yeah, It might.. Havent done much testing yet but so far no issues. The reason for going to a smaller chainring was so I had better climbing ability. I dont need a high topspeed. This bike will be mainly a offroad trail bike. I did take it out on the roads over the weekend though and I did not shift gears much at all. Basically stayed in the 11T on the cassette the whole time. I guess I should go a little bigger but IMO 48 will be much too big for the kind of riding Im doing.

 

[Phife]

Did a quick search and couldnt find anything online..

Does anyone know where I can find a 42T Narrow-Wide 104BCD Chainring? They dont seem to exsist above 38T. I want the narrow-wide as I still have some chainline issues and want the chain to stay on.

 

[gman1971]

Did a quick search and couldnt find anything online..

Does anyone know where I can find a 42T Narrow-Wide 104BCD Chainring? They dont seem to exsist above 38T. I want the narrow-wide as I still have some chainline issues and want the chain to stay on.

Cyclone sells a 44T, You should look into a triple chainring, run a 32T for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears and a 48T for the remaining ones. Thats what I run and I have had zero issues with my chainline.

g.

 

[gman1971]

Today it was super nice outside, so I came to work without some of the extra layers and the difference was noticeable. Still running with the spiked tires, but I think aero drag was more substantial. My cruising speed was 34 mph, with the same wattage I used to cruise at 30mph prior to me losing the extra clothing. I assume once I am down to "lycra" and clipless shoes with the skinny wheels is going to cruise at 40 mph!! I am loving this cyclone kit!!! And I haven't even put 72V... I can only imagine how wild of a ride this might be on 72V!!

G.

 

[gman1971]

Hey does the Sabvoton controller make any difference in noise? I found mine is fairly quiet, so I was wondering if the Sabvoton sinewave controller makes any difference... has anyone tried a FOC controller?

G.