new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[robocam]

Thanks =) I don't know about zero flex, but it is worlds better than before. The new bolts are 1/4" (6.35 mm compared to 6 mm stock), and I used grade 8 bolts on one side (because I couldn't find grade 8 bolts for countersunk holes at the hardware store I went to), so along with the extra bracket, the flex is greatly reduced. With the stock mounting hardware, after a short test ride, I could see the motor twisted into a position that didn't look right, and it stayed that way. I'm experiencing none of that with the new setup. I'll go through the packages of parts I used and make a list for you.

Robocam i rather like the look of your custom plate and mounting bolts. Is there zero flex in the setup even on hard acceleration?

If you could post some links to the exact parts you used I would be very grateful.
I want a really over-engineered and solid mount for my full sus (can't fix to downtube) and it saves trying out different parts if your setup is exactly that.

 

[robocam]

Hi Dom!

Are you saying you put 4 chainrings on your crankset? If so, you may experience premature wear of the crankset freewheel, so if that happens, you may have to consider the HD or Ultra HD freewheel from sickbike parts. The wear is due to the way the bearings are loaded when you present a sideways load on the freewheel's bearings. The sideways load is most pronounced when you use chainrings that are the farthest apart.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

I would not even bother with lead acid batteries. At the current level the Cyclone is operating at, you will get very little usable capacity out of those batteries. This is due to the "Peukert effect." When I was using 4 8Ah SLAs with my GNG that drew 21A, I was getting maybe 2-4Ah out of them. 18Ah is about double the capacity of mine, but the Cyclone also draws about double the current. You'd be lucky if you get a small fraction of that 18Ah. They will also weigh a ton. You may want to check out this web page.

http://www.ypedal.com/sla/sla.htm

When you choose mounting hardware, try to use grade 8 1/4" bolts if possible. They will be significantly stronger/stiffer than stock.

Hello

My kit arrived and I've been mocking up the install on my redundant atomic zombie delta speed wolf. This is my first build so I'm going to check in now and again to ask for your knowledge on the c-3000 kit. I'm starting off with a stock kit with a 4 chain rings. 48-44-36-24. I can upgrade the critical parts this spring, i.e. Chainring freewheel, drive freewheel, wire connectors and such.

1) my trike is 1-1/2" square tube. I'm going to set the motor down low under the main boom to keep the weight low. I can mount the motor as close or far from the crank. Q: if I mount the motor close to the chain rings and have a shorter chain would that be advantageous? I'm thinking yes but please chime in.

2) the motor will be mounted to the square tube in a simple manner with good quality bolts and steel standoffs. I'm just looking for a strong mechinacial fastening. I'll post some pics when I get that far. The motor can be mounted from 90 degrees to 45degrees to the horizontal boom. Q: is there any advantages to mounting it on an angel verses 90degrees to the boom?

3) I'm building this trike on a budget and don't have the $ to buy the Lipo packs that I want so I'm going to get started with some SLA battries. This will get me on the road for testing. 3 12 volt 18Ah will do the trick for the time being and I can get the lipos this summer as the funds become available. I'd like to charge the battries in the trike and not sure what type of configuration I need to wire. Q: what type of harness would I need to charge three SLA battries at the same time.

Any information to help me get my trike rolling under electric power would be awesome. I'm open to suggestions from all of you and thanks so much for the great thread.


Afton Rider
Dom

 

[evolutiongts]

I'm selling beefed up motor mounts for Cyclone 3000w.

 

[gman1971]

I'm selling beefed up motor mounts for Cyclone 3000w.

How much for the mount.

G.

 

[robocam]

Is the end of the motor secured with an extra bracket?

I'm selling beefed up motor mounts for Cyclone 3000w.

 

[gman1971]

Is the end of the motor secured with an extra bracket?

I'm selling beefed up motor mounts for Cyclone 3000w.

I don't think its needed since it has a solid block of AL which prevents any torsion on the motor mount.

G.

 

[cmm8622]

Thanks a ton Gman and Robocam for the great feedback!

So I think I will get the suggested 44-48-32 with a 14T freewheel and a 11-42 cassette and 68-73mm ISIS BB. Sounds like we can really haul with that setup. Down the road, I can always replace the 32 with a 24 chainring, right? I'm still on the fence with the batteries, but you asked for range Robocam, and we are willing to spend for power AND range as this is going to be a workhorse for the long run. This is all going onto a early 90s Specialized Rockhopper. She has been one solid bike over the years and well-maintained, so we are gonna treat her to an upgrade.

Some more questions I have are...
*Compatibility with the 48 vs the 44 2nd chainring: How can I determine if the 48 will fit, as Robocam said it was hitting the chainstays?
*Are folks ordering the standard setup deal from Luna and then buying the 3rd chainring (32) from from Cyclone? It looks like Luna is offering the double chainwheel 44-48. Can I just add another chainring to that, or do I need to buy it as a triple chainring from the start?
*Guessing the 14T freewheel is a separate purchase from Cyclone? Didn't see on Luna and after sifting through the tons of kit offerings at Cyclone, only saw it under the "order motor parts".

Appreciate yall.

 

[gman1971]

Yes, the Cyclone cranks are fully modular. In fact I built my 44-48-32 out of a 44-44-32... I replaced the middle chainring witha 48T. Is a 104 BCD bolt pattern so you can use whatever chainrings you want as long as they have a x4 bolt 104 mm pattern.

For an ebike I am not so sure a 24T might be the way to go; I am chosing a 24T b/c my trike will be 90+ pounds AUW, so in this case it will be nearly impossible to pedal it uphill without the magic 24T chainring. My ebike weights half of that and a 32T ring 36T cog I can climb pretty much anything on pedal power alone.

As for reliability, my ebike has been running without mechanical issues for around 1800 miles now; I've only replaced the chains once and flipped the outer crank around so the other face (unused) of the chainring teeth engage the new chain. My 44T crank was starting to show some wear due to it being 2800 miles and out of those 28000 mies about 1000 where running my old high torque low RPM GNG Gen2 mid drive that really abused the snot out of everything...

You can always order directly from Cyclone if the option you seek is not available from Luna (if you need it right away, that is) Luna is trying to grow their Cyclone sales so might be worth poking at them to ask for the necessary parts. With that said,m my conversation with Paco over in Taiwan (Cyclone) has made clear that the motor kit you order from Taiwan comes stock with a 14T freewheel. I think Luna kits come with the 13T freewheel instead but the freewheel comes off with a hex set screw. You might want to speak with Eric about that since I am unsure what the options are at Luna. I also think the motors from Luna come fully assembled, and I think the motors from Taiwan you have to do most of the assembly yourself...

As for power and range, they tend to go against each other. Towing stuff is a matter of torque at the rear wheels (not at the motor) and you don't need a lot of power; but if you want to tow something heavy real fast then you need loads of power; which will guzzle the batteries dry in no time... for a reliable mid-drive I would suggest 48V, and @ 48V you'll be able to tow a car... but not destroy the drivetrain in the process. On a bike batteries take a ton of space, on a trike you can fit 2400 Watts hour like I did and not think much about it... on a bike carrying such massive capacity will go against your cargo capacity.


G

Thanks a ton Gman and Robocam for the great feedback!

So I think I will get the suggested 44-48-32 with a 14T freewheel and a 11-42 cassette and 68-73mm ISIS BB. Sounds like we can really haul with that setup. Down the road, I can always replace the 32 with a 24 chainring, right? I'm still on the fence with the batteries, but you asked for range Robocam, and we are willing to spend for power AND range as this is going to be a workhorse for the long run. This is all going onto a early 90s Specialized Rockhopper. She has been one solid bike over the years and well-maintained, so we are gonna treat her to an upgrade.
0
Some more questions I have are...
*Compatibility with the 48 vs the 44 2nd chainring: How can I determine if the 48 will fit, as Robocam said it was hitting the chainstays?
*Are folks ordering the standard setup deal from Luna and then buying the 3rd chainring (32) from from Cyclone? It looks like Luna is offering the double chainwheel 44-48. Can I just add another chainring to that, or do I need to buy it as a triple chainring from the start?
*Guessing the 14T freewheel is a separate purchase from Cyclone? Didn't see on Luna and after sifting through the tons of kit offerings at Cyclone, only saw it under the "order motor parts".

Appreciate yall.

 

[Aftonrider]

Hey robocam

I'm aware of the freewheel issues that comes with the kit. It's the first thing I'm going to upgrade. I'm thinking I should ditch the battery buy and get the freewheel first. Can I buy one turnigy batt and add others to the battery bank? Than I can build the proper battery system. Will the motor run on 23 volts?

Thanks so much for the advice, I think your right.

Afton Rider
Dom

Hi Dom!

Are you saying you put 4 chainrings on your crankset? If so, you may experience premature wear of the crankset freewheel, so if that happens, you may have to consider the HD or Ultra HD freewheel from sickbike parts. The wear is due to the way the bearings are loaded when you present a sideways load on the freewheel's bearings. The sideways load is most pronounced when you use chainrings that are the farthest apart.

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21

I would not even bother with lead acid batteries. At the current level the Cyclone is operating at, you will get very little usable capacity out of those batteries. This is due to the "Peukert effect." When I was using 4 8Ah SLAs with my GNG that drew 21A, I was getting maybe 2-4Ah out of them. 18Ah is about double the capacity of mine, but the Cyclone also draws about double the current. You'd be lucky if you get a small fraction of that 18Ah. They will also weigh a ton. You may want to check out this web page.

http://www.ypedal.com/sla/sla.htm

When you choose mounting hardware, try to use grade 8 1/4" bolts if possible. They will be significantly stronger/stiffer than stock.

Hello

My kit arrived and I've been mocking up the install on my redundant atomic zombie delta speed wolf. This is my first build so I'm going to check in now and again to ask for your knowledge on the c-3000 kit. I'm starting off with a stock kit with a 4 chain rings. 48-44-36-24. I can upgrade the critical parts this spring, i.e. Chainring freewheel, drive freewheel, wire connectors and such.

1) my trike is 1-1/2" square tube. I'm going to set the motor down low under the main boom to keep the weight low. I can mount the motor as close or far from the crank. Q: if I mount the motor close to the chain rings and have a shorter chain would that be advantageous? I'm thinking yes but please chime in.

2) the motor will be mounted to the square tube in a simple manner with good quality bolts and steel standoffs. I'm just looking for a strong mechinacial fastening. I'll post some pics when I get that far. The motor can be mounted from 90 degrees to 45degrees to the horizontal boom. Q: is there any advantages to mounting it on an angel verses 90degrees to the boom?

3) I'm building this trike on a budget and don't have the $ to buy the Lipo packs that I want so I'm going to get started with some SLA battries. This will get me on the road for testing. 3 12 volt 18Ah will do the trick for the time being and I can get the lipos this summer as the funds become available. I'd like to charge the battries in the trike and not sure what type of configuration I need to wire. Q: what type of harness would I need to charge three SLA battries at the same time.

Any information to help me get my trike rolling under electric power would be awesome. I'm open to suggestions from all of you and thanks so much for the great thread.


Afton Rider
Dom

 

[Aftonrider]

I didn't mean any harm with my post. Sorry

Dom

quote="gman1971"]I appreciate being given credit, thanks; I truly do, but please Afton, stop posting the wrong recommendations and pegging my name to it. Seriously, I am recommending a 44-48-32T chainring; if you don't remember (or don't know) what kind of setup I am using then please refrain from posting wrong data. I tend to check this thread rather often at a times and I'll help in whatever fashion I can. The point is that I prefer that my name isn't associated with the wrong information so when ppl ebikes fail I don't get blamed for it.

Thanks.

And for the record: My current Triple Chainring configuration is: 44-48-32T

G.

Hi mountain biker

I'm new to this but have gained a lot of information reading on ES and asking questions. I've been told a 1/2" X 1/8" bmx chain is the strongest. KMC makes great chains. I know nothing about the pas feature. As for the three way switch, the controller is wired for a three way switch. Look here for the switch. http://www.lyen.com

As for the gearing ratio. If geared correctly the kit will not tear up your drivetrain.

search gman1971 in ES and you'll find the proper chain rings for the final drive. I think it's 44-36-24.

Hope this helped

Afton rider
Dom

so i went to the website for cyclone tw and they have a triple chainring. one from the motor and two for your bike to use for rear cassete gears......what size chain do they use for the motor to the chainring? also has anyone used their pas feature? is there anyway to limit the amount of amps used. i am assuming the throttle but is there some way to limit the throttle max in conjuction with a three way switch. i noticed the ca can do this are there any other alternatives? like a three way switch and what power levels would i get....where can i find a three way switch? and wouldn't a 3000 watt drive just shred a normal bike derailler in a matter of minutes....any experience with their 24 volt version..how many rpm you guys getting from that to the crank...they emailed me back from taiwan and said they could do 20amp or 40amp in terms of controller.also they have a waterproof one but its hard to tell from their website. with a double chainring a 24t and 44t that would be cool with me. back cassete 14-28.

[/quote]

 

[gman1971]

its cool, just remember that a lot of ppl read this, and ordering the wrong chainring is an expensive mistake and well, you know what happens when expensive mistakes happen...

G.

 

[Aftonrider]

I understand. Once again sorry.

Dom

 

[gman1971]

Sweet Afton, no worries and thanks.

So more news, I finally ordered the Cycle Analyst. After much debate between the 3.0 and 2.4 I settled for the 2.4. The main reason was that I am not feeling the rat nest cable mess the CA V3.0 introduces... I personally think the V2.x had a better cable design, but again, thats just me... so I settled for the 2.4 DPS which only hast two cables coming out as opposed to like 6 and a bunch of plugs that I'll never use. This time I ordered directly from Grin tech, so hopefully it gets here by the end of the week. Once I have the CA installed I'll be able to connect for the first time the main 72V power reactor and have a complete system test. Right now all the auxiliary 12V tests have been done using an external 48V pack, you know, I don't want to prematurely unbalance any of my main pack lipos yet.

The trike is coming along real well, so hopefully by the end of this week its fully operational.

The last batch of parts is arriving this week so we'll see if I get around to wrench it together fast enough... I am shooting for our first weekend adventure on the e-trike for this weekend, well, that's assuming everything goes as planned, and while so far everything has been checking out as scheduled, you never know tho as motor installs can be either be great, or turn into a nightmare.... I guess we'll find out if ordering the kit directly from Cyclone Taiwan (Paco) was a good idea or not... lots of unknowns that only time can answer.

G.

 

[le15otl]

G it will be a good idea I think, my parcel from Paco / Taiwan arrived within 3 days

Robocam, thanks a lot! mine always moved a lot as well from the first ride, it always surprises me how much it can move without causing problems with the chain.. I think the stock bolts are M6, at least on mine they were.

 

[robocam]

Oops! My bad. You're right, they are 6mm.

G it will be a good idea I think, my parcel from Paco / Taiwan arrived within 3 days

Robocam, thanks a lot! mine always moved a lot as well from the first ride, it always surprises me how much it can move without causing problems with the chain.. I think the stock bolts are M6, at least on mine they were.

 

[robocam]

Hi Dom, you're welcome!

The motor will probably work at that voltage, but the Cyclone's stock controller probably won't. I assume it has a low voltage cutoff set for a 36V battery.

I probably wouldn't upgrade the freewheel until it fails. Who knows, maybe it might work for a while. Are you comfortable operating without a BMS? You can permanently damage those batteries if you go lower than a certain voltage. Are you familiar with how to charge these batteries?

Hey robocam

I'm aware of the freewheel issues that comes with the kit. It's the first thing I'm going to upgrade. I'm thinking I should ditch the battery buy and get the freewheel first. Can I buy one turnigy batt and add others to the battery bank? Than I can build the proper battery system. Will the motor run on 23 volts?

Thanks so much for the advice, I think your right.

Afton Rider
Dom

 

[gman1971]

Robocam is correct, there is a 24 V controller for this motor, so might want to shot Eric (or Paco) an email about getting it, that way you can run it at 24V

G.

Hi Dom, you're welcome!

The motor will probably work at that voltage, but the Cyclone's stock controller probably won't. I assume it has a low voltage cutoff set for a 36V battery.

I probably wouldn't upgrade the freewheel until it fails. Who knows, maybe it might work for a while. Are you comfortable operating without a BMS? You can permanently damage those batteries if you go lower than a certain voltage. Are you familiar with how to charge these batteries?

Hey robocam

I'm aware of the freewheel issues that comes with the kit. It's the first thing I'm going to upgrade. I'm thinking I should ditch the battery buy and get the freewheel first. Can I buy one turnigy batt and add others to the battery bank? Than I can build the proper battery system. Will the motor run on 23 volts?

Thanks so much for the advice, I think your right.

Afton Rider
Dom

 

[Aftonrider]

Gman/ robocam

There is defiantly a learning curve with all this ebike stuff. I'm learning as I go. Thanks

Ok so I guess I can't run two 16ah 15v 4s. I'll buy another right now and hold off with getting the HD freewheel. I can get in next month. Getting the additional will give me about 45 volts and I can ride the way we all intend too. I'm going to buy a turnigy lipo charger and use a watts up meter for the time being.

Thanks for your guidience, I obviously need it. Ha ha

Afton Rider
Dom

 

[gman1971]

Gman/ robocam

There is defiantly a learning curve with all this ebike stuff. I'm learning as I go. Thanks

Ok so I guess I can't run two 16ah 15v 4s. I'll buy another right now and hold off with getting the HD freewheel. I can get in next month. Getting the additional will give me about 45 volts and I can ride the way we all intend too.

Thanks for your guidience, I obviously need it. Ha ha

Afton Rider
Dom

I think you'll get more than 45V, 3 4S packs will charge up to ~50.2 volts or 12S LiPo, which is what I am running on my ebike and performance is out of this world... plust it will go easier on the drivetrain as well so one more pack and you're good to go.

BTW, whats the deal with the freewheel?? I am running the 13T on mine and I haven't had any issues in 1800 miles...

G.

 

[le15otl]

I've started having serious issues with the motor chain coming off just recently. It worked flawlessly for ages but now it's coming off even though the tensioner appears to be in the same position.

Anyone wanna see a cyclone motor mangle and snap the chain in 240fps slow mo :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVadO8uv57Y

also if you have any tips on how to prevent the chain coming off in the way it does in the vid i'm all ears. Surprisingly the tensioner jockey is not actually off plane with the chain-ring...

 

[spinningmagnets]

That chain was worn enough that it is stretched. Then, the chain pins didn't hit the "valleys" of the sprocket, they hit the tip of the teeth. Chain and sprocket both look worn.

 

[Aftonrider]

Hi Gman

I had time today to get my motor mounted on the 1-1/2" square tube. It's solid. I'm going to do,your washer mod over the chrome threaded standoff. I'll,lock tite all the hardware and see how it holds up. Thanks for the help on the battery set up. Couldn't I just keep the charger in with the battery's,? I'm gong to put the battery's and charger in a bike pack on the front down tube. Can I leave the charge leads on the cells when I'm using the packs. I was thinking about a small trunk that I could use for storage and wanted to know if the packs could be about 30" away from the motor/controller? Things are coming together nicely. The battery's are on the way and should have them In a few days. Here's a few photos of the mount on my trike.

Cheers

Afton Rider
Dom

Gman/ robocam

There is defiantly a learning curve with all this ebike stuff. I'm learning as I go. Thanks

Ok so I guess I can't run two 16ah 15v 4s. I'll buy another right now and hold off with getting the HD freewheel. I can get in next month. Getting the additional will give me about 45 volts and I can ride the way we all intend too.

Thanks for your guidience, I obviously need it. Ha ha

Afton Rider
Dom

I think you'll get more than 45V, 3 4S packs will charge up to ~50.2 volts or 12S LiPo, which is what I am running on my ebike and performance is out of this world... plust it will go easier on the drivetrain as well so one more pack and you're good to go.

BTW, whats the deal with the freewheel?? I am running the 13T on mine and I haven't had any issues in 1800 miles...

G.

 

[robocam]

You know what, I don't really know. I came across this thread about a year ago, and it's the freewheel in the crankset, not the motor.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=67694

Here's a YouTube video about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWuduPHSyFg

Despite its quality, the price just seems a "little" high.

...whats the deal with the freewheel?? I am running the 13T on mine and I haven't had any issues in 1800 miles...

G.

 

[gman1971]

Good to see its coming along Aftonrider...

ah, you meant the one in the crank... mine so far seems to work just fine, but I have a couple of spares in case it fails....

G.

 

[le15otl]

That chain was worn enough that it is stretched. Then, the chain pins didn't hit the "valleys" of the sprocket, they hit the tip of the teeth. Chain and sprocket both look worn.

Interesting. I'll try a new chain today. Thank you