new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[robocam]

So glad you feel welcomed by this community =) This thread is why I own a Cyclone, and I have Gman to thank for that.

How big of a gap between the back of the freewheel and the motor housing do you need to make it work?

I was thinking about it, and then I realized I'm using an ISIS bottom bracket, so if you have a different BB, it could be different. How wide is your bottom bracket spindle? Just making sure you didn't receive one that's too wide.

Yep, my motor shaft is also 25mm
If it were 28+ then I think I could make it work, but I would have to resort to shimming the motor in its mounts to get proper chain alignment.

Also, my freewheel/adapter unit seems to be about 30mm thick.

It seems the shaft is on the short side of its tolerance, and the freewheel unit is on the high side of its tolerance, thus the two are conspiring together to not be compatable.

Thank you all for going to the trouble of measuring your parts for me. This is a great community here.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Sather,

Your measurements corroborate with what I suspected.:

The problem may have arisen from Cyclone production inconsistencies so no fault of SBP. It would seem they likely are not obligated to pay service to interchangeable parts which won't work because some dimensions were different than what they had designed for their parts to fit.

BTW Apex, this cyclone kit from Luna is not sold as motorcycle repair. They say, "

The cyclone is difficult to install and we do not offer install advice. This kit is for experienced builders only who know what they are getting into. This kit comes with no install instructions. "

It may be also difficult to install non OEM parts.

Are you credentials really adequate??

 

[sather]

Robocam, I'm not using any spacers on the crank because the ISIS bottom bracket allows so little clearance to the left side of the motor housing. There doesn't seem to be much play (in and out) in the Cyclone drive shafts.

Difficulty of install: I had no problems with either Cyclone install except when I converted from the square taper bottom bracket to ISIS because of tight clearance issues. And I was ready to modify the motor mounts when they bent because of the design work of Robocam and Dingus.

 

[robocam]

I mean the spacers on the right crank arm, the ones in your picture here.

Robocam, I'm not using any spacers on the crank because the ISIS bottom bracket allows so little clearance to the left side of the motor housing. There doesn't seem to be much play (in and out) in the Cyclone drive shafts

 

[sather]

No, I did not use any spacers between the crank arm and freewheel.

 

[Apex]

When I took the measurements in the pics I posted there was NO gap at all, the freewheel was in contact with the motor housing. Of course it needs to be backed off for operation.

DingusMcGee, I am aware that this kit may require some fitting to work properly, and that it isn't "plug and play".
But there is a difference between parts needing adjustment and parts being incompatable.

Let's game this out. I have two choices here.

First choice would be if I come across a problem, I could disassemble the motor, throw the armature into a press and adjust the shaft, and reassemble. But if there are any issues, then what? All issues are now my full responsibility, even if they are not related to my modifications.

Or, I can email SBP and wait to proceed until I hear from them, then follow their instructions, thus keeping intact the support that they offer with the products they sell or manufacture.
Indeed they may tell me to try to modify the motor or freewheel, and with their blessing I would be happy to.

As much as I want to finish the bike, I'm willing to wait.
I don't need it for transportation, I own multiple cars, and a truck. One of my cars is a 450 horsepower dodge neon that I built and tuned with my skills.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Apex,

I could disassemble the motor, throw the armature into a press and adjust the shaft, and reassemble. But if there are any issues, then what? , even if they are not related to my modifications.

Only if it is long enough!



If you did something like moving the shaft, I doubt whether Luna Cycle, or the Cyclone Motor Co would have much of a clue some one had tampered with the motor unless you do some pretty sloppy hammering/pressing. I have my doubts that either of these companies have much of an idea of the statistical variations within a run of these motors but know it is huge. So they are likely to cough up the repair/exchange -- they do not have map of all the measurements.

All issues are now my full responsibility

this declaration is your outlook and the way you have chosen to play the warranty card. Anyway the shaft might be too short to move it from the opposite side bearing. Who knows till you look and measure. They obviously did not note much about the short shaft? other than the OEM freewheel looked good enough at a glance to sell. Maybe for this particular kit you have to know enough to adjust the shaft as they say by buying you agree you are an experienced builder.

 

[Apex]

Even if I could move the shaft (assuming it's only pressed in), the snap ring groove at the bearing would be out of place. I agree with you on your suggestion of throwing the adapter in a lathe and milling the shoulder a little bit more so the freewheel can screw on a little farther would be one fix. That or tapping a new set screw hole much closer to the freewheel.
But as I said, I will give SBP a chance to respond before I go any further.

 

[robocam]

That sounds like a great plan. Your motor shaft is almost the same length as the one in mine, so it should work with a new setscrew hole.

Even if I could move the shaft (assuming it's only pressed in), the snap ring groove at the bearing would be out of place. I agree with you on your suggestion of throwing the adapter in a lathe and milling the shoulder a little bit more so the freewheel can screw on a little farther would be one fix. That or tapping a new set screw hole much closer to the freewheel.
But as I said, I will give SBP a chance to respond before I go any further.

 

[Pablo]

Well damn.

Check this out. with the motor freewheel pushed all the way on the motor shaft the set screw still won't fully engage the shaft. You can see it's location peeking out above the shaft.



This pic was taken with the freewheel against the motor housing! I still need to back it off enough so it won't grind against the motor. Either the motor output shaft is much too short, or the set screw was tapped too far out on the collar, probably both. even if it wasn't this bad there is no way I can align the sprockets due to the fact that there would no ability to adjust alignment.

Has anybody seen this issue?

I have replied to your PM. Jim is out of travel and maybe he won't respond today so please send an email to the address I provided. This is the first time we had a customer encounter this issue, so be patient with me as well. I did not know, for example, there are motors with different shaft lengths out there. All ours are the same. ~25.7 mm or so. I know for a fact there are indeed two styles of collars, one "narrow" the other wide as shown in your picture, but that's how we get them from Cyclone, but again, they fit - it's close though and you may have got the worst case stack up.

 

[Pablo]

That looks very different compared to mine from Luna Cycle. Looking forward to hearing what Sick Bike Parts says.

That looks to be the shallow model we also carry. Cyclone did not supply them that way or suggest that combination. But it does seem a better fit.

 

[robocam]

Do you have this shallow model listed on your website?

That looks very different compared to mine from Luna Cycle. Looking forward to hearing what Sick Bike Parts says.

That looks to be the shallow model we also carry. Cyclone did not supply them that way or suggest that combination. But it does seem a better fit.

 

[Apex]

That was fast!

Thanks for the reply, Pablo.

I sent an email to Jim at SBP this morning. I will send another with all the other pics and order info as well.

Thank you for your response, everyone gives Sick Bike Parts good marks on customer support, this reinforces those opinions.

 

[sather]

I'm sure SBP will supply a solution quickly. I would let them handle it.

But if you decide to deal with it yourself, I would modify the cheapest, most easily replaced part first. I think the adapters are around $10 from SBP. Then drill a new hole in the adapter and tap it.

BTW: It would be a good idea to buy an extra motor freewheel. I have already had the 14t heavy duty one freeze up. SBP shipped a new one immediately and did not even request that I send the frozen one back.
Great service!

 

[Pablo]

Do you have this shallow model listed on your website?

Not exactly. (It gets a little worse) We do have stock but, that's about 100 miles from here and I don't know if we have loose shallow or wider ones.

That said - the shallow model is definitely what is threaded in our 14T HD Motor freewheel.

 

[Pablo]

That was fast!

Thanks for the reply, Pablo.

I sent an email to Jim at SBP this morning. I will send another with all the other pics and order info as well.

Thank you for your response, everyone gives Sick Bike Parts good marks on customer support, this reinforces those opinions.

Did you send the email to Jim or Pablo?

 

[Apex]

This morning I sent it to Jim.

I just sent you a more comprehensive email with all the pics and measurements.

Cheers.

 

[robocam]

Thanks Pablo. Do you stock the aluminum version of the 44T outer chainring (the ones that mount to the freewheel and have BCD 104 holes) and the aluminum version of the 24T chainring? And do you stock the 1mm chainring spacers?

Do you have this shallow model listed on your website?

Not exactly. (It gets a little worse) We do have stock but, that's about 100 miles from here and I don't know if we have loose shallow or wider ones.

That said - the shallow model is definitely what is threaded in our 14T HD Motor freewheel.

 

[Pablo]

This morning I sent it to Jim.

I just sent you a more comprehensive email with all the pics and measurements.

Cheers.

Got it. I'll personally fire out a narrow variety 20mm adapter to you.

I have to say I LOVE electric stuff. Man it's my favorite, but Cyclone sometimes drives us nuts with changing things and not really telling us.

BTW We have a LARGE stock of 3000W motors (pallets of them) please send folks our way!!

 

[Pablo]

Thanks Pablo. Do you stock the aluminum version of the 44T outer chainring (the ones that mount to the freewheel and have BCD 104 holes) and the aluminum version of the 24T chainring? And do you stock the 1mm chainring spacers?

No sorry we don't!

 

[robocam]

No problem. Thanks for the quick reply!

Thanks Pablo. Do you stock the aluminum version of the 44T outer chainring (the ones that mount to the freewheel and have BCD 104 holes) and the aluminum version of the 24T chainring? And do you stock the 1mm chainring spacers?

No sorry we don't!

 

[Apex]

I just sent you a email.

Got it. I'll personally fire out a narrow variety 20mm adapter to you.

Thank you, and know that I appreciate your support. Such business ethic a joy to encounter these days.

 

[Pablo]

Well I'm bummed it happened in the first place. I spent the last little while trying different combinations, and while some are close, none where as bad as your case. Did you measure the length of the shoulder? (The largest OD part) I think that yours in is is a bit of a outlier.

 

[Pablo]

All measurments taken with the depth gauge on my micrometer are included in the pics.

I get 0.462" worst case here. I think this is the problem - or rather it shows that collar is not machined correctly - ie set screw hole not located inboard enough.

 

[robocam]

What's the difference between this and the shallow model? Is it just the length of the collar and the location of the set screw hole? Just wondering if I can just buy the 13T and drill another set screw hole.

I get 0.462" worst case here. I think this is the problem - or rather it shows that collar is not machined correctly - ie set screw hole not located inboard enough.