new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[Dogboy1200]

I've only run my cyclone on a "test" bike for a few miles. I have an UHD crank freewheel on the way and I'm working on brackets to mount the cyclone to my Fat Bike. Once it's all together if I have trouble with the motor freewheel I think I'll try to replace it with a plain sprocket. The only downside would be added drag if you were peddling and not using the motor. I've got over 500 hardcore off-road miles on my BBSHD and have never once peddled it without motor. I almost always peddle with the motor though. Has anyone tried a non freewheeling motor sprocket?

 

[sather]

My first 14t freewheel failure just locked up solid. I didn't even notice it had locked up until I got home and oiled the chains. I have a few extra 14t freewheels on hand. If they fail, I plan on just putting the frozen freewheel back on. Worst case scenario is that if your battery goes dead and you have to pedal home, all you have to do is take off the motor drive chain. It would only take about 30 seconds and can be done without tools.

 

[robocam]

Thanks Sather. This is very educational to me. I wonder if the increased traction from your fat tires is causing increased shock-loading in the drivetrain, something a simple slipper clutch would fix. Are both bikes full suspension?

When I tried the 41T, I used it with a 9-speed Shimano derailleur. It worked, but wasn't ideal (because of how far I had to adjust the B-screw). The Sram 10-speed Type 2.1 works perfect with the Wolftooth 42, and it looks like Shimano has adopted Sram's rear derailleur design, so going with their 11-42 plus a 50T 11-speed setup might work on your bike. If you gear it so that your granny ratio is the same as what you had before, you should be able to run much higher chain velocities at much less tension.

As far as modifying the shunt, I think using a rotary tool to grind down the shunt would work. Basically, you just grind a little bit away each time until you get the current you want. If you wanted to increase it again, you could add some solder. You could also try Luna's Bluetooth programmable controller. Do you pedal with your motor at all? If not, going to a higher voltage at less current would be a good idea.

So the Lyen has terrible throttle response huh. I was curious about his controllers.

Thanks for the info!

Robocam, I will attempt to answer your questions

41t steel 8 speed cog on ebay:
I have already purchased one and am going to attempt to use it with a 9 speed Shimano RD-M772 XT derailleur. Either as a 9 sp or as an 8 speed. It may not work because the M772 max cog size is 36 and the M772 will not work with the Wolf Tooth goat link (I tried). Eight speed derailleurs only go to 34t, won't work with the goat link and stand no chance of making it to 41t.

60v:
The higher the voltage, the more noise the Cyclone makes and the quicker it gets hot. I just closely monitor temperature. When it gets to 110c I stop and it cools very quickly.

35amp current limit
The CA3-Lyen 4110 has terrible throttle response when compared with the Cyclone throttle. I just use the CA3 with the CA3 shunt to monitor current, temperature, speed and battery usage. I am not comfortable screwing around with the Cyclone controller internal shunt to limit it to 35a.
(67v x 35amps=2345 watts) and (58v x 43amps =2494 watts).

Climbing gear
I use the 32t chainwheel -34t cog when doing steep climbs. It will climb anything. That being said, I don't always use an appropriate gear when climbing because of noise and stealth.

Snapping chains:
When I was snapping 10 speed chains, I was stupidly using the 11 and 13 rear cogs. I was using the 14t motor freewheel-44t freewheel-44t-32 chainwheel. BTW: My son uses the 13 tooth motor freewheel doing the same climbs as me and has never lost a freewheel or chain. He weighs a lot less than I do and rides a normal 40psi mountain bike not a 8psi fat bike like me.

Cyclone Freewheel durability
I don't know about the relative durability of the Cyclone motor freewheels (13t vs. 14t). I have now lost two 14 tooth freewheels. I do know that Gman and Dingus have both lost freewheels. Gman recommends the "dicta" as a slightly more durable replacement I think the motor freewheel is next weak link in the Cyclone after the motor mount.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Robo,

All else being equal.

I know the meaning of 'all', else, being and equal. As for you though experiment with the 4 bikes and riders, the answer has to be they tie. Obviously the bikes are all the same length.

One also would understand the since all else being equal they would be an equal distance from the finish at one infinitesimal before the finish.

And recursively, because they all would have the same acceleration and speed they would tie at the finish.

Now, all else being equal they could be at the same time all be equally different.


Foppel,

you have a similar skill set like a lot of thread posters use. You will say anything [talk and babble] as your reason for doing/changing/substanciating something even though it is meritless to the given situation.


The subject of my contention is that a high battery pack has a much higher moment of inertia about the lateral axis than a very low one and this hinders good control

You suggest a low positioned battery caused your frame failure. Such unsubstantiated cause and effect, whether true or false, has nothing to do with the moment of inertia and its effect on control. Have you ever thought good Mt bikes are build for a big range of rider weights? A 10 lb battery on the frame likely does not put the bike into the bike's next standard deviation for likely hood of failure. Are you packing a lot butter? Face it, you likely either have a week bike, poor riding skills and/or a big ass. The terrain you post in the vids does not look very technical so can we count this out?

S-Works Stumpjumper FSR 650b Frame

Suppose now you stand on the petals. Likely this will raise the battery back pack CG 12" at least. The ratio of change of the moment of inertia becomes:

75 x 75 / 20 x 20 = 14.06 times what is would be at 20". In an earlier post I calculated the ratio with the battery backpack CG at 60".

Judging from your go pro vids and other posts it seems you cannot keep a bike together very long [poor riding skills?], so why build another custom battery pack when you can simply throw it in the backpack?


Am I angry? No. Just terse. If you are exactly on target you miss the big rocks.

 

[sather]

Robocam:
Both bikes are hard tails.
Fat bikes require much more energy at 8psi than a mountain bike at 40psi. When I smoked my motor and had to pedal home, I quickly got tired of 8psi and stopped and pumped up the tires to 35psi. The ride got harsh but the effort to pedal was dramatically less. Plus, add an extra 50lbs of body weight and you have a combination that smokes motors and freewheels, especially on steep climbs.

I have installed longer "B" screws only to have them bend. I even drilled and tapped the derailleur for a larger diameter "B" screw so it wouldn't bend. The best solution is the Goat link. The purpose of the Wolf tooth Goat Link is so you don't have to use a longer "B" screw. Too bad the Goat Link will only fit Shimano 10 speed derailleurs, not 8-9 speeds.

Wolf tooth has a 49 tooth ($120) coming that they claim is better than the Shark Cage 50t ($120). Add the cost of the 11 speed derailleur, shifter and chain. The experiments total cost is over $225 and probably would be destroyed by the Cyclone. I am considering it for my BBSHD however.
Wolf Tooth Components GC 49 Cog/WolfCage Bundles - 11 Speed Shimano
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83647&category=1569

My Holy Grail is going the other direction. An 8 or 9 speed cassette starting at 15t or 16t and going up has high as possible. Check out the Miche first position cogs and Miche 9 speed cassette that allows substitution of cogs. I plan to go from 16t up to 41t. Even higher if I can fabricate my own Goat Link.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=14087&category=1569
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9741&category=41

I only "ghost pedal" for stealth. With higher voltage you are still going to have to restrict amps either by shunt mod or custom programming. I'm not sure if I have enough knowledge to program the Luna or Lyen controller. Especially for phase amps. Right now, I am going to monitor temps and be careful. If my son smokes the Cyclone on his bike I will look into restricting amps.

I don't know whether the CA3 or the Lyen 4110 is to blame for jerky throttle response. Karl at electricbike-blog.com Quote: "The Lyen 18 Fet controller runs about $200 directly from Lyen, but in all honesty, I can’t recommend it. It is incredibly large, stupidly heavy, and the power delivery is pretty jerky (and not beef jerky either, more like twerky). The controllers are a royal pain to program"

Gman has observed the same jerky throttle response in the CA3/Lyen and has a theory. You might pm him.

 

[robocam]

The reason I asked whether they were full suspension was because I was wondering if chain growth could have been a factor. That's very interesting. I keep reading everywhere that you get lower rolling resistance with lower tire pressures, which goes against what I've always thought, that higher pressures equate to lower rolling resistance but I understand why it is the case because lower pressures should allow you to roll over obstacles instead of being affected by them. Maybe 8 psi on a fat bike is too low regarding that rule or the terrain has something to do with it.

Prior to 11-speed, Shimano's rear derailleur design has always used an upper pulley that doesn't change its distance from the cassette as the cage rotates. Because of this, when you adjust the B screw, it makes shifting in all the other gears worse. Adding the Goat Link doesn't really fix the main issue because it only moves the derailleur a set distance away. In Sram's design (since Type 2.1), the rotation of the cage moves the upper pulley closer and farther away from the cassette. This makes shifting much smoother without requiring anything like the Goat Link or unusual B screw adjustments. This is why OneUp makes a Rad cage. It makes a Shimano derailleur behave like a Sram.

So I think the best solution if you're running a 10-speed system is to get a Sram Type 2.1 rear derailleur or run a Shimano with a Rad cage. The Goat Link is just a bandaid, and Wolftooth probably couldn't offer a new cage because of OneUp's patent. I'm currently using a Sram X9 Type 2.1, and it works perfectly with a 42 (other than the 16T not being as buttery smooth to shift in and out of compared to the other Shimano cogs but that's what happens when you mess with Shimano's perfectly designed cassettes).

Thanks for showing me the Wolftooth 49! I'm a fan of Wolftooth since I have their 42T. I just looked at the 42, and it has 6 shift gates, so I see why they say 7 would be better for the 49, although I wonder if there was a reason they couldn't make a 50 (maybe a patent issue). Ideally, they would sell both and let the customer decide. The OneUp 50T has 4 shift gates, so it would only take a quarter turn of the wheel, which is nothing, so I wonder how much of that is marketing speak. I mean it might matter in a race, but to us I don't know. 49 is also even closer to 46, so one might ask why not just get the Shimano 11-46 in order to preserve Shimano's awesome shifting performance.

I'm seriously considering the BBSHD because of how quiet it is. If Luna has a black Friday sale, I might just have to snatch one up. I'd have to get their Eclipse 44T chainring to correct the chainline, so because of that, I'm going to have to go with one of these large cog cassette options. I was originally leaning towards the OneUp 50, but now you've made my decision harder =) in a good way though, I think. If Wolftooth offer's theirs in blue, I might just get theirs instead =)

You say it's going to be destroyed by the Cyclone, but if you take advantage of the new ratios either by reducing the size of the motor crankset chainring or increasing the size of the bicycle crankset chainring, you will be able to run lower chain tensions.

Programming the Bluetooth controller should be really easy with the App. I've made a post about it, so hopefully someone that has tried it will comment.

If you go the route of making your own cassette, it may not shift as smooth as a Shimano because Shimano uses carefully placed gates. Plus, the 41T has zero shift gates. If you want to stick with an 8-speed system, the Sram EX1 that Dingus mentioned earlier might be worth looking into, although it's super expensive.

https://www.sram.com/sram/mountain/products/xg-899-e-block-cassette

Also, Gman doesn't have a CA3. He has the older one. I'm using a CA3 with the Cyclone, and I haven't noticed anything unusual. If you use it to limit your current from 40 amps to 30 or 35 amps, it should work great for that purpose. I bought the potentiometer for my CA3, and I have it setup to limit current. It worked great for when I was using my 2015 GNG mid drive temporarily while I was waiting for the hall sensors for the Cyclone. Although I think the best way to do it is to program the controller. I might have to get one of those to play with.

Robocam:
Both bikes are hard tails.
Fat bikes require much more energy at 8psi than a mountain bike at 40psi. When I smoked my motor and had to pedal home, I quickly got tired of 8psi and stopped and pumped up the tires to 35psi. The ride got harsh but the effort to pedal was dramatically less. Plus, add an extra 50lbs of body weight and you have a combination that smokes motors and freewheels, especially on steep climbs.

I have installed longer "B" screws only to have them bend. I even drilled and tapped the derailleur for a larger diameter "B" screw so it wouldn't bend. The best solution is the Goat link. The purpose of the Wolf tooth Goat Link is so you don't have to use a longer "B" screw. Too bad the Goat Link will only fit Shimano 10 speed derailleurs, not 8-9 speeds.

Wolf tooth has a 49 tooth ($120) coming that they claim is better than the Shark Cage 50t ($120). Add the cost of the 11 speed derailleur, shifter and chain. The experiments total cost is over $225 and probably would be destroyed by the Cyclone. I am considering it for my BBSHD however.
Wolf Tooth Components GC 49 Cog/WolfCage Bundles - 11 Speed Shimano
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=83647&category=1569

My Holy Grail is going the other direction. An 8 or 9 speed cassette starting at 15t or 16t and going up has high as possible. Check out the Miche first position cogs and Miche 9 speed cassette that allows substitution of cogs. I plan to go from 16t up to 41t. Even higher if I can fabricate my own Goat Link.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=14087&category=1569
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=9741&category=41

I only "ghost pedal" for stealth. With higher voltage you are still going to have to restrict amps either by shunt mod or custom programming. I'm not sure if I have enough knowledge to program the Luna or Lyen controller. Especially for phase amps. Right now, I am going to monitor temps and be careful. If my son smokes the Cyclone on his bike I will look into restricting amps.

I don't know whether the CA3 or the Lyen 4110 is to blame for jerky throttle response. Karl at electricbike-blog.com Quote: "The Lyen 18 Fet controller runs about $200 directly from Lyen, but in all honesty, I can’t recommend it. It is incredibly large, stupidly heavy, and the power delivery is pretty jerky (and not beef jerky either, more like twerky). The controllers are a royal pain to program"

Gman has observed the same jerky throttle response in the CA3/Lyen and has a theory. You might pm him.

 

[2old]

Haven't read the whole thread, so don't know whether you're aware. SRAM has a new EX-1 8-speed system designed specifically for e-bikes with 11-48 cassette, stronger chain and a host of goodies on the rear derailleur and shifter.

 

[sather]

Robocam:
If you are using the CA3 and CA3 throttle with the Cyclone controller, could you tell me what wires from the Cyclone controller (colors) correspond to the CA3 plugs wire colors. What is the best crimper to make connections to plugs? What is a good source of the plugs that interface with the Cyclone controller? (not just the CA3 plug, but all the Cyclone plugs) Also, any advice on smoothing out the CA3 throttle response when using the CA3 throttle with the Cyclone controller.
EG
Thr min in
Thr max in
ThrO max out
ThrO max out
WOT

 

[sather]

Pricing on SRAM E bike components
Source
http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/05/17/sram-ex1-brings-modern-1x-drivetrains-e-bikes-eight-speeds/
Sold separately, here’s pricing:
Crankset – $50
Direct mount chainrings – $20
Rear derailleur – $142
Shifter – $48
Chain – $25
Cassette – $390

Grand Total ONLY $675

Quote from the article:
"new chain, PCEX1. It’s only slightly modified from their other non-hollow chains, getting an additional chamfer on the inner plates to improve shifting and chain management".

I didn't like this spin: "They had customers always asking for stronger chains, but what they found was that once the chain management issues were solved, their chains were plenty strong enough."

In my opinion SRAM makes the weakest of all brands of chains. They snap easily when subjected to 3000 watts. I have had much better luck with KMC and Wipperman.

 

[robocam]

Sure! Let me see if I can remember, haha.

Ok, so I don't like to crimp anything because I don't feel it's as reliable. I solder everything to the pins of the connectors (after I squeeze everything together with pliers). I bought these JST SM connectors (https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&p=1193008&hilit=jst#p1193008). And don't be afraid to cut the Cyclone's connectors off. When I got my Cyclone, I cut off almost every single connector coming from the controller. Later I cut off the phase connector and replaced it with a 5 pin connector to make everything neater. The way they have it is weird. They're sending battery power through the connector through a loop and then to the throttle switch. It's just a big mess. Cutting off what you don't need is a good way to keep it neater.

This was before I realized some of the connectors were JST SM. Had I known, I wouldn't have cut off some of them.

https://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-712Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188SF2KS?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

https://smile.amazon.com/Hilitchi-520Pcs-Housing-Terminals-Connector/dp/B0188DMF3A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

I've found that this 22 gauge stranded wire works great with it (20 gauge is a bit too thick).

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Q3HQX5U/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This soldering iron is awesome! I can solder 10ga wire to the XT-90s connectors with no problem! My Radio Shack 40 watt iron could never come close to doing that.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000B5YIYS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

CA-DP plug
V+ goes to your battery +
Gnd goes to your battery -
S- goes to your shunt on the battery side of the negative terminal (if your current reads backwards, just swap the S wires)
S+ goes to your shunt on the controller side of the negative terminal
Sp goes to your speed sensor (the other speed sensor wire ties into Gnd)
ThO goes to the Cyclone controller's throttle input (I believe it's the green wire if I'm not mistaken, the other 2 connections don't need to be connected because they're for powering the hall sensor in the throttle)

You will also have to switch the wires around on the throttle's connector to match up with the Cycle Analyst's throttle in connector. If you have the Oro throttle, you'll have to change the resistor if you're using a 52V battery or some other voltage if you want the CA's voltage display to be more accurate.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21232#p1183382

To make things neater in the front, I opened up the CA and desoldered the PAS, thermistor, and DC out wires. I didn't want my front to stay looking like this.

What do you mean by smoothing it out? What is it doing now that you don't like? And have you looked at the section "CA3 Setup Menu"?

http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html

Robocam:
If you are using the CA3 and CA3 throttle with the Cyclone controller, could you tell me what wires from the Cyclone controller (colors) correspond to the CA3 plugs wire colors. What is the best crimper to make connections to plugs? What is a good source of the plugs that interface with the Cyclone controller? (not just the CA3 plug, but all the Cyclone plugs) Also, any advice on smoothing out the CA3 throttle response when using the CA3 throttle with the Cyclone controller.
EG
Thr min in
Thr max in
ThrO max out
ThrO max out
WOT

 

[robocam]

Yeah, that is just some crazy pricing.

BTW, it looks like the Bluetooth controller Luna's selling might be easy to use. Remi posted some screenshots of the app.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=78681&p=1230589#p1230403

Pricing on SRAM E bike components
Source
http://www.bikerumor.com/2016/05/17/sram-ex1-brings-modern-1x-drivetrains-e-bikes-eight-speeds/
Sold separately, here’s pricing:
Crankset – $50
Direct mount chainrings – $20
Rear derailleur – $142
Shifter – $48
Chain – $25
Cassette – $390

Grand Total ONLY $675

Quote from the article:
"new chain, PCEX1. It’s only slightly modified from their other non-hollow chains, getting an additional chamfer on the inner plates to improve shifting and chain management".

I didn't like this spin: "They had customers always asking for stronger chains, but what they found was that once the chain management issues were solved, their chains were plenty strong enough."

In my opinion SRAM makes the weakest of all brands of chains. They snap easily when subjected to 3000 watts. I have had much better luck with KMC and Wipperman.

 

[Apex]

Aww yeah.
Paul at Sick bike Parts , you rock!

He shipped me a freewheel adapter that fits perfectly, I think it's made out of mithril.

 

[Pablo]

Glad it arrived today! Awesome.

 

[Alex07]

Has anyone else seen or tried the new AFT C3000w? looks awesome can't wait to see the reviews on this

This new AFT C3000w kit looks interesting ...

Seems they have replaced all the junk stock parts it seems from the cyclone C3000w.. Why buy from Luna -Just buy this from Cyclone Taiwan it will be cheaper with the same problems. Their is a whole thread about all the bracket flex and freewheel failures.. sinewave kelly and stronger freewheels and brackets fixes ... and they have done some cool stuff it seems to reduce the weight too . if people are happy with the stock C3000w and Gman has done 6.5kw peak on this motor so thats Astro power without the noise ! looks like a winner, Eager to see any reviews on this.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=83578&start=50

 

[redline2097]

Would this kit be ideal to 24" dirt jumper for single speed build, topping at 25-30mph? Would it climb hills like a beast?

 

[spinningmagnets]

Awesome! It makes sense that AFT would come out with some upgraded brackets for the Cyclone 3000W, because their bread and butter has been the major improvements they made to the 750W Cyclone (brackets, heat-shedding, etc)

http://www.aft-ebike.com/c3000w.html

 

[DingusMcGee]

Spinning,

I just followed up on your suggested link regarding the ATF improved 3000 kit. Take a closer look at the first photo on that link. I can see what looks like a charger below the motor or is it a controller?

At any rate no showcase photo and if that is a controller the location for it is a very poor one.

 

[DingusMcGee]

This weekend's trail riding lead to a failure of the short upper member in the 4-bar suspension linkage called the Hollow-Link on the Specialized FSR bike. Further examination lead me to believe the bolt holding the shock/spring broke first as it had the dirty separation surfaces. I managed to find a used but good Hollow-link in the junk box of the 1st bike shop I went to.

Before installing the link I pondered several ways to strengthen it and came up with adding a bolt through the "hollow" hole part of the link which would stiffen the link for differential torsion loading.





Obviously the added bolt both strengthens the Link and adds as much weight to the bike as the weight reduction one gets going from changing steel chain rings to aluminum chain rings. Contrary to what Foppel thinks about battery position and bike frame failure, I do not think the link failure can be attributed to the battery mounted [low] on the bike but a bolt of less than grade 8 bolt strength to hold the shock to the Hollow-Link that initially failed leading to the link's unrestrained additional twisting. I do think the bolt failure was do to a lot of rocky trail riding with a light rider for the bike design.

I see the replacement shock bolt the bike store sold me is some aluminum alloy and the 5mm allen wrenching slot has already stripped. Yes Robo, I am experiencing some of the ideals of OEM light weight Mt bike features. Will be replacing this bolt soon with a Grade 8/9 allen head equivalent class 12.9. But you may want to switch to all aluminum alloy bolts to save weight?

 

[sather]

Strategies for a quieter Cyclone?

Has anyone tried gear oil or ATF fluid as a replacement for the grease in the Cyclone 3000 gearbox?

Has anyone tried a sine wave controller on the Cyclone 3000.

I was amazed how much louder the BBSHD became when used with a Cyclone controller. Could the stock controller be partially to blame for Cyclone noise?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHleVaz0yaw

 

[DingusMcGee]

Sather,

Has anyone tried a sine wave controller on the Cyclone 3000

I bought 2 Sabvoton programmable controllers. One was purchased as a standby controller for using when the 72v nominal OEM Cyclone 3000 Controller failed. Eat Crow gman1971 the OEM controller is still going strong. The other purchase was to use with my 94.4 v max battery on my Dolomite Fat as measured with a calibrated Fluke Multimeter. The sabvoton sees the battery voltage as 96.2 and it is programmable no higher than to it's reading of a 95v high. The Sabvoton is somewhat larger than the Cyclone OEM 40 amp controller seems a little big for my likes.

If gman knew what he was talking about, I would know whether this sinewave controller made much of a reduction in sound as the OEM would be toast.

I did have one of the sabvotons on a hub motor of mine and yes it ran quieter but not a whole lot as the tic tic tic of square wave in nothing compared to noise made by chains. But according to measurements on the c-3000 with my decibel sound meter the sound likely comes from the chains and not the gears. The quietest chain I have used on the C-3000 is the Shimano asymmetrical chain that has plain plates that face the seat tube and those facing out have the Shimano insignia on them. It is purported to get rid of mud better. This was 10 speed chain on a 9 speed SRAM cluster. Shimano Deore CN-HG54 10-speed chain.

 

[sather]

I wish I had access to a sound meter.
An interesting test that you could do with your sound meter is:
1. Run with motor drive chain only (no bike chain to rear wheels),Stock controller,Take measurement
2. Run with no motor drive chain. Take measurement.
3. Take off the planetary gear box, run motor. Take measurement.
4. Hook up sine wave controller and run motor without gear box. Take measurement

 

[robocam]

Even if the chain noise is louder, motor/gear whine is an unnatural sound from a bicycle, and depending on it's frequency and harmonics, it can be very annoying (more so with high RPM motors and/or systems that use unconventional gear boxes). When you're on the trails, people might not pay attention to chain noise, but they'll definitely notice whine. When I watch my GoPro videos, all I hear is whine.

Taking off the planetary gearbox won't tell you much. The gears don't really whine until they're under load.

However, one example we can draw some conclusions from is how loud the Cyclone Mini is with its metal gears.

If you have an iPhone, there are numerous apps that have an SPL meter. I'm sure it's the same for other smart phones as well.

I would love to know if the Cyclone can be made significantly quieter with a sine wave controller.

I wish I had access to a sound meter.
An interesting test that you could do with your sound meter is:
1. Run with motor drive chain only (no bike chain to rear wheels),Stock controller,Take measurement
2. Run with no motor drive chain. Take measurement.
3. Take off the planetary gear box, run motor. Take measurement.
4. Hook up sine wave controller and run motor without gear box. Take measurement

 

[juanfeli]

Sure you can use this kit as single speed with 24 or any other wheel size, but you will have to find the gear ratio/battery volts that you will be happy with. ( efficiency/aceleration/top speed)

Would this kit be ideal to 24" dirt jumper for single speed build, topping at 25-30mph? Would it climb hills like a beast?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[robocam]

What voltage are you interested in running it at?

If you gear it for a 30 mph top speed (48/52V), I don't think it would be a hill climbing beast, but this depends on what you mean by "hill." I think it would be much simpler and more reliable to run a hub motor if you're not going to use gears.

If you want, I can set my bike to a 30 mph gear to see how it performs on the trails.

Would this kit be ideal to 24" dirt jumper for single speed build, topping at 25-30mph? Would it climb hills like a beast?

 

[spinningmagnets]

One of the greatest things about non-hub motors is that you not only have the option to vary the volts and amps, you can also change the gear ratio on the sprockets.