new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[I love bike]

I just finish my Cyclone built using 52 V battery pack

I feels too heavy to pedal without power.
Does anyone know how to hook up PAS with different power level? The PAS parts that I order from Luna can't install without mod to mounting plate.

Also the ebrake cut off does not seems to work. I connect it to a continuity meter and makes no difference move the magnet around

I don't want full throttle all the time.
It wants to wheelie if I am at a low enough gear to pedal and it scares me

https://ibb.co/hLKuV5
https://ibb.co/jugmck
https://ibb.co/jBeHiQ

 

[tikivic]

I just finish my Cyclone built using 52 V battery pack

I feels too heavy to pedal without power.
Does anyone know how to hook up PAS with different power level? The PAS parts that I order from Luna can't install without mod to mounting plate.

Assuming you have the ISIS bottom bracket - I do also and had to machine the magnet ring to fit the ISIS cranks. I can't find any way either to have various power levels with PAS via the stock Cyclone controller. On mine, when it's on the bike stand there is a small difference in RPM as you spin up the cranks, but in reality on the road it comes on with around 85-90% power. I installed a switch so I can go in or out of PAS mode as desired - but I almost always use my thumb throttle and manual cruise switch.

Also the ebrake cut off does not seems to work. I connect it to a continuity meter and makes no difference move the magnet around

My first pair of Luna e-brake cutoffs went bad on one sensor as well, they sent me a new set after I contacted them. Also my first PAS sensor was bad as well. Seems a bit hit and miss on these parts, but once I got everything working I haven't had a failure (yet) 600+ miles on it now.

I don't want full throttle all the time.
It wants to wheelie if I am at a low enough gear to pedal and it scares me

(I agree with you there!)

https://ibb.co/hLKuV5
https://ibb.co/jugmck
https://ibb.co/jBeHiQ

 

[DingusMcGee]

According to a local bike mechanic the half link chain is supposed to be oriented to such that the thin neck leads in the forward chain direction [see pic]? I have my uncapped one on the Big Hit already oriented this way.

A low Tech Solution to a chain roller for the capped half link chain? I am running an 18T White Industries freewheel on the motor and a 48 T on the crank and this makes for a mildly loose chain. The OEM Cyclone roller will not work by pressing the capped half link chain inward as the chain is capped and going in the other direction the frame does not allow for a place to attach the spring to pull the chain outward. So doing would be putting the extending linkage & spring below the motor which is not a good location for stump jumping etc.

It turns out that the tightened chain's path [lower side] is just inside [maybe 1/4"] [towards the upper chain's path] of the lower long bolt that holds the motor to the aluminum sheet on the right side. For the roller I chose a steel sleeve of 1/4" ID and 3/8" OD about 1" long. This greased roller was slid down to the cap end of a 1/4" grade 8 cap screw [about 1.5" longer than the the existing thru bolt was ] and fastened loosely with a nylock nut as I wanted the roller to be able to turn.



Here is the under shot of this fix:



The roller/chain combo makes a low decibel high pitch tap-tap sound as the chain moves over it. This sound is drowned out by the whine of the motor's planetary gears. After 3 miles of fast riding the roller did not feel the slightest warm from possible heat generation. For different chain ring combo's a thicker roller might make up until the chain is snug?

I suspect the roller will be better off lubing it each time the chain is lubed. But no more springs to break!

 

[robocam]

I can't tell from your picture, but this is how I think it should be mounted because you want the larger end of the gap to hit the tooth first. That way the wider gap will guide the chain onto the link as it narrows.

I found that picture here.

https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/152941/

And I also found a new concern for the half-link chain. Someone said that the plates can flatten. If that happens, the chain will stretch. Time will tell how this affects us mid drive users. So far, this half link chain has served me well. I also like that you can adjust the total chain length to a finer degree.

https://smile.amazon.com/KMC-Bicycle-1-Speed-8-Inch-Silver/dp/B000C17I0C

I'm glad you found a way to tension the chain.

I just bought a second Cyclone 3000 for a new project. This time it's going inside the triangle =) The Cyclone is just too much fun!

 

[DingusMcGee]

Hi

Robo,

you want the larger end of the gap to hit the tooth first. That way the wider gap will guide the chain onto the link as it narrows.

I agree with what you say, but I think your picture shows the opposite of what you say?

Here is the half link setup [uncapped chain] on the Big Hit as seen from the top the crank's 48T chain ring. The chain moves from left to right.




The teeth of the motorized chain ring will engage the roller on one side and the load ended of chain ring's teeth will make contact with the other side of the roller. Both sides of the roller get used in loading the chain. But the highest tooth loading is on the first tooth for the motor end and on the last tooth for the big ring. Chain stretch would exacerbate this non-distributed tooth loading. The side plate flatten? For what metal used on the side plates -- I guess we will see.

 

[bchampig]

Does anyone have a source of extra long crank arm bolts M12x1.0? I have the Cyclone ISIS bottom bracket and the Cyclone ISIS crank arms, and a standard crank bolt is not long enough to engage even a single thread. I saw a source of unicycle crank bolts from ameuro source,mbut would prefer to find a source in the US.

thanks!
Brian

 

[robocam]

The bolts that come with the bottom bracket will work. You just need to give it a whack with a rubber mallet (or a hammer and something to protect the arm).

Does anyone have a source of extra long crank arm bolts M12x1.0? I have the Cyclone ISIS bottom bracket and the Cyclone ISIS crank arms, and a standard crank bolt is not long enough to engage even a single thread. I saw a source of unicycle crank bolts from ameuro source,mbut would prefer to find a source in the US.

thanks!
Brian

 

[I love bike]

Yes a good wack of rubber mallet on the crank arm then you use the bolt to pull crank arm into ISIS bottom bracket. You will need a different crank arm puller (bigger head) if you ever want to remove the ISIS crank arm

 

[bchampig]

Thanks for the help,with the Cyclne ISIS cranks. I managed to seat the crank arms deep enough to engage the bolt threads. My echo trials cranks slide onto the spindle easily, but I guess the Cyclone cranks have a much tighter tolerance. I guess you get what you pay for!

I'm starting to plan my next build based on Marin Quake freeride bike, and I'm torn between another Cyclone build, a LR small block, or a BBSHD. My Yeti 575 Cyclone that I posted about several posts back is still perfomng well, but I have nothing else to compare it to. I wonder if the BBSHD will feel wimpy comared to a Cyclone 3kw at 48v/40A. Also, I'm not a fan of the BBSHD square taper spindle. Decisions, decisions.

thx,
Brian

 

[robocam]

Actually, I feel like you get a lot more than what you pay for with the Cyclone. It's the deal of the decade. Better than any mid drive in this price range. After you install and remove the arms a few times, it will get easier. I guess they could have included bolts that were a couple mm longer without increasing the price, and I don't know why it's taking them so long to provide a decent mount. It could also use a better chain tensioner. But at this price point, I'll try not to complain.

The only mid drives I would consider are the BBSHD and Cyclone 3000. If you run a mid drive with a belt, it will break. It's just a matter of when. The BBSHD will feel much weaker than a Cyclone. With the Cyclone, you can be in any gear on your bike and go. With the BBSHD, you have to constantly shift gears. The only real advantage the BBSHD has is its quietness. But there is a way you can get more power out of the BBSHD. You can run it with an external controller.

I have a Cyclone 3000, a BBSHD and a GNG belt-driven mid drive similar to the LR, but with a 20mm wide belt which promptly snapped when I ran it with the Cyclone's 40A controller. The LR uses a 25mm belt, which isn't much wider. Dingus has snapped an LR belt. The Cyclone is proven to withstand much more as proven by many here including Gman at 90A/72V with a shunt-modded stock controller.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=1375#p1223967

Having tried the three designs, I'm building my next ultimate trail bike with another Cyclone 3000, and I'm placing it in the triangle for maximum ground clearance (my BBSHD was constantly catching on roots, logs, and rocks). I chose a square-tapered bottom bracket this time so that I can use the PAS sensor. I don't really see any issue with square-tapered bottom brackets. Not really sure what issues people are having. Maybe heavy people bend them? I'm 180 lbs, and the BBSHD's bottom bracket feels solid to me.

Oh, here's another Cyclone offering that's interesting. I'm so tempted to try it out.

-up to 4000 watts
-in frame motor
-170mm rear travel
-can take a tapered steerer
-takes tire sizes 26x4, 27.5x3, 29
-$799 + shipping!!! (introductory price that will end in a few weeks)

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html

...I guess you get what you pay for!...

...I'm torn between another Cyclone build, a LR small block, or a BBSHD...I wonder if the BBSHD will feel wimpy comared to a Cyclone 3kw at 48v/40A. Also, I'm not a fan of the BBSHD square taper spindle...

 

[DingusMcGee]

Sleeve and bushing can be built up to make for an adjustable bearing like assembly for chain tightening.

The sleeves used for my Roller-Snugger are from the boxes of Hillman Fasteners found in bigger hardware stores. The boxes are labeled either sleeves [steel] or bushings [bronze]. They are nominal fraction sizes of ID's and OD's and for this use the 1" length seems most suitable, yet the ID's and OD's are somewhat precise. When trying to find a telescopic fit of two sleeves, by slide thru methods, the smaller sleeve of some in the box can often almost be slid thru the next bigger sleeve [ so OD < ID] .

The steel sleeves tend to be tight at one end. A Critchley Type Reamer would be a precision tool to use for this fitting process, but a round file will work if the sleeve ID is only smaller at one end. If the OD is too big some plumber's open mesh sand belt will work to get the 2 pieces to telescope for making a bushing like assembly. The resulting clearance between the 2 sleeves is too small for a viscous grease like Phil Wood Waterproof Grease to get easy turning as when using this grease the outside of the chain will just slip over the roller. An oil works better for the lube viscosity needed in these assemblies. Bronze sleeves wear in such a way that the "wearings" act as a lube when under light loads which this applications seems to be.

As the chain wears, the next bigger sleeve can be added to take up the chain lengthening. So far the method is working well and the noise level seems less than with a derailleur jockey pulley and spring for chain tension management.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Robo,

The Cyclone BB motor is interesting but the bike with forks, motor, battery and charger is $3373 until July 10. Otherwise refit a larger BB sleeve into a suspension bike to accommodate the motor?

 

[squeeze]

Dingus:

Yeah, I was looking at that and wondering the roughly the same thing...

Hmmm, ifI can find a cheap-o frame...

I'll leave the rest unsaid in case I never do it!

 

[robocam]

I would not buy a complete bike because I am very particular about the parts that go on my bike. I don't want something built with the least expensive parts available.

$799 for the frame, motor and controller is a really good price. The price will go to $999, which still isn't bad considering how much a frame alone costs these days. The closest thing I can think of is a Lenz Sport Interceptor that houses an in-frame mid drive.

http://lenzsport.com/mountain-bikes/interceptor-e-bike/

They're also coming out with a version of the Mammoth that can house a BBSHD, and it's $2875 without the mid drive.

http://lenzsport.com/mountain-bikes/mammoth/

I briefly looked into welding aluminum, and it seems very complicated because you have to heat treat the frame after you weld it, and I don't know if I can find a welder I can trust. It seems like more trouble than it's worth. When I put the Cyclone in the triangle, I will get almost everything I want (just a little more noise but I can live with that). I guess you could find a steel bike to weld, but where are you going to find a bike that has 170mm of rear travel and can take a tapered fork? Also, most in-frame setups are far below 4000 watts (more like 250-500 watts).

Robo,

The Cyclone BB motor is interesting but the bike with forks, motor, battery and charger is $3373 until July 10. Otherwise refit a larger BB sleeve into a suspension bike to accommodate the motor?

 

[DingusMcGee]

Robo,

just dropped $1038.70 on that $799 Cyclone Deal. shipping is $238

 

[gman1971]

Hi guys, loong time no post. Been busy with work and riding... I've only glanced at the last couple of pages but seems this thread is still in full force. Good to see that.

Trike is almost 7k miles now, survived a Wisconsin winter like a champ, and although it had somewhat of a rough winter start when the cold hit last year... but so far its been working really well... I am almost done with the new body work too, just one panel left to go, but real happy with this Cyclone motor, hasn't missed a beat.

Latest numbers are real good, I am getting about 22-24 Wh / mile average @ 31 mph on motor only.

Hey Dingus, I see you've gone with an 18T on the motor, that would reduce a lot of torque on drivetrain overall... that is a good choice: Did you build a thread adapter for the larger non 30mm freewheel or you found something online that fits? Thanks.

Picture here (its hard to keep black shiny, any water drop will leave stains

G.

 

[gman1971]

I wonder if gman has the original throttle. Are the wires different colors than those of the Oro throttle? Did you try asking Luna?

What throttle, the Oro throttle?

G.

 

[DingusMcGee]

Hi Gman,

I found an adapter from Staton, Inc. They have a lot of different sized bike mod chain adapters in both right and left hand thread and are fairly quick on shipping.

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=985.

Looks like you have the makings of some fenders?

 

[robocam]

Wow, that was a quick decision! I'm looking forward to hearing about your experience with it. Did you order it with a headset for a tapered steerer? Since it doesn't have the secondary chain reduction, you will be limited to the 6:1 gear reduction. I hope that won't be an issue. I wonder if you'll find yourself using the 22T sprocket more often. How do you plan to use it? What kind of wheels do you plan on using with it? Are you building a full suspension fat bike?

Robo,

just dropped $1038.70 on that $799 Cyclone Deal. shipping is $238

 

[gman1971]

Hi Gman,

I found an adapter from Staton, Inc. They have a lot of different sized bike mod chain adapters in both right and left hand thread and are fairly quick on shipping.

http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=985.

Looks like you have the makings of some fenders?

Hey there, thanks man. I have had good luck with the Dicta freewheel (not the one with the black inner thing) but increasing tooth count might be good for other reasons.

Ah, the fenders, yes, I thought about those but with the handlebar enclosures now I don't need them anymore. The ones I had originally snapped at the bolting points during this past winter due to the cold + constant vibration/potholes, and without them the trike also gets better Wh/mile so I never bothered with them after a while. The front wheels are aero-disc, so there is not much need to put any fairing around them...

G.

 

[robocam]

Good to hear from you gman! Wow that looks like something Batman would use!

Hi guys, loong time no post. Been busy with work and riding... I've only glanced at the last couple of pages but seems this thread is still in full force. Good to see that.

Trike is almost 7k miles now, survived a Wisconsin winter like a champ, and although it had somewhat of a rough winter start when the cold hit last year... but so far its been working really well... I am almost done with the new body work too, just one panel left to go, but real happy with this Cyclone motor, hasn't missed a beat...

 

[gman1971]

Good to hear from you gman! Wow that looks like something Batman would use!

Hi guys, loong time no post. Been busy with work and riding... I've only glanced at the last couple of pages but seems this thread is still in full force. Good to see that.

Trike is almost 7k miles now, survived a Wisconsin winter like a champ, and although it had somewhat of a rough winter start when the cold hit last year... but so far its been working really well... I am almost done with the new body work too, just one panel left to go, but real happy with this Cyclone motor, hasn't missed a beat...

Hey Robo, lol.... Batman would probably have more capital to build something fancier but thanks! yeah, good to be back.

G.

 

[robocam]

I think it was something that came with the Cyclone a long time ago. Here's the post.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=2025#p1287635

I wonder if gman has the original throttle. Are the wires different colors than those of the Oro throttle? Did you try asking Luna?

What throttle, the Oro throttle?

G.

 

[robocam]

How's this coming along? =) I'm about to buy 2 sets of brackets to make something like that so that I can mount my new Cyclone in the triangle.

What if someone (me???) designed a two piece adjustable bracket that allowed the motor to slide and adjust chain tension without the need for a tensioner?

 

[gman1971]

I think it was something that came with the Cyclone a long time ago. Here's the post.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=2025#p1287635

I wonder if gman has the original throttle. Are the wires different colors than those of the Oro throttle? Did you try asking Luna?

What throttle, the Oro throttle?

G.

I do have the original Oro throttle on my eBike... I remember it had the three hall sensor cables and two extra ones those where for the motor arm/disarm toggle switch IIRC, which also were used for the voltage readout on the throttle itself.

G.